[AJCleaningServices]

Most of you should know that our typical rate is £9-00 per hour, here is our current leaflet.
   
We got e-mail:

“hi there
we require a cleaner two hours per week to start asap, normal duties expected, we feel that its possible to clean the full house in two hours and there may be some ironing involved and do you also cover washing cloths costs involved
sender’s name”

The sender has also left message on our answer machine asking to call him back, so my partner called him and said that we would charge him £15-00 per hour for cleaning his place.

He leaves 6.3 miles away from a little town where we advertise, the roads to his house are not very good, he gives just two hours we would have to take our cleaner there then take her back, which would make total 25 miles for just 2 hours of cleaning.  We agreed quote him in a hope that later we would find more customers in his village, so our judgement was £15-00 per hour. 

He was very unhappy to hear our quote, as he knew our typical rate was £9-00 per hour.  He said to my partner that he would agree for £10-00 per hour but not £15-00.  She apologised and said that we would not be able to do his place for less that £15-00 per hour.  Conversation finished.  However Maria said to me that that man did not sound as a gentleman. 

Later that day we got e-mail from him or his wife:

“thanks for the call, but i am very unhappy that you wish to con and rob people of £15 per hour when your paperwork states only £9 i will pass this to our legal departwent”

So I responded:

"Dear Mrs SENDER,

I understand your disappointment.  My partner - Maria, advised me that Mr SENDER did not sound as a gentleman over the phone.

We do charge in Ponteland and Darras Hall areas £9-00 per hour.  It is for us to decide how far from there we are prepared to travel without adjusting our charges accordingly. 

I do not know what “your legal department” could do with our advertisement.  I guess they may display it somewhere so everybody would see that we are offering a good value for money service in Ponteland area.

What you should do is contact another cleaning company to see if they would come to your place for two hours and do cleaning for less than £15-00 per hour.

You could also take “our paperwork” to the Trading Standard Agency and see what they say. 

Best wishes,

Arthur Rudzenis
Partner
A & J Cleaning Services"

I thought the matter was over but this morning I got another e-mail where he or his wife DEMANDS us to clean their house:

“Hi there i have spoken to my lawer who has pointed out that your advert is incorrect and you are open for legal action, as there is no comment about £9 for darras and ponteland only. It clearly states that your typical rate is £9 with no vat to pay.
Therefore we request that you clean our home for £9 as its your typical rate.
Your wife was incorrect as my husband was a perfect gentelman on the phone as i was in the room with him and i do not like slander against my husband”

Could you believe it…

I am yet to respond to the above  :, but I am not here for advice how to deal with this, just wanted to entertain you a little bit…

Regards,

Arthur

 

[*Chris Browne]

I would ask to speak to there "legal advice"(bloke down pub) and then tell them you will clean who you want and when you want at what ever price you and your client agree on, just dont waste time with these wasters arthur, you will come across lots of prats like this anyway your leaflet is perfectly ok saying"typical " but it might be an idea to change it to "from"


chris

[mxg]

Arthur

If you want to continue advertising your rates (and personally I don't or wouldn't) it might be worth adding one little word to your leaflets ie "from" - that then clearly gives you the option to charge depending on circumstances.

Mick

[AJCleaningServices]

Thank you for your posts,

I think stating "from" would be confusing.  I am going to stop showing the price at all, as it will be increased very soon (VAT and minimum wage...)
 
I do not advertise were they live, so they have no reason to say that my price over there promised to be £9-00 per hour. 

...He leaves 6.3 miles away from a little town where we advertise, the roads to his house are not very good, he gives just two hours we would have to take our cleaner there then take her back, which would make total 25 miles for just 2 hours of cleaning.  We agreed quote him in a hope that later we would find more customers in his village, so our judgement was £15-00 per hour...

However, how much would you charge in my case?

Regards,
Arthur

PS Don’t they think I am a slave?

[lynngc]

Arthur,
personnaly i would not respond to the second e-mail, ignore there letters, if they call, say you have been advised not to enter into any conversation with them,( bluff ) tell them you have now passed this matter to your solicitors,  they will give up eventualy. don't give them any more info for fuel.

good luck

lynn

[martin19842]

hi there

just walk away from it, no communication nothing.  its your business you deal with the customers/clients that you wish to trade with.

just imagine the person walking into a car dealer ship telling the owner that you WILL sell me a car.  Take a hike.

you dont need clients like this.

the word TYPICAL is a good word to use,

if you see some adverts on the tv from loan companies i think the phrase goes "OUR TYPICAL INTEREST RATE IS XXXX"

move onto the next client

the other thing aswell, we never talk about hours to do a job,,

its always it will cost £xxx.xx to do that.  if it takes you less time then you make more money.

regards

martin

[AJCleaningServices]

We state hourly rate as this is the way many cleaning companies do here...

...No way we are going to do them even if they offer us £25-00 per hour...

Regards,
Arthur

[marts - Martin Reed]

arthur

I think you'll find that you have to be careful what is down in writing to members of the public... if your advertising at £9 per hour and not specifiying area or location then the public is in the right...

someone from devon could call you expecting £9 per hour... if your going to show prices publicly then use "FROM" to cover yourself..

Remember the customer is always right [but we know different] and there word of mouth is a valuable tool of advertising

martino

[garyj]

They cannot demand you clean their house, as Martin said that's up to you.
I'm not sure if I agree with not contacting them again and I would now be looking at this as a damage limitation exercise. If they want to they could prosecute for miss-selling and false advertising, the penalties for that are very stiff and would finish you as a business. Agree to the £10 an hour ( or better still the £9ph rate) and arrange to go and see them, the chances are they don't want you know anyway. If they do still want you, tell them you need a month up-front and do anything you can to get out of actually cleaning their place. After a week or two give them notice and leave! but it won't come to that.

Its not ideal and there must be better solutions and I really don't think you have a chance in hell of getting the business anyway, but they do have you over a barrel on your charges and that would be worrying me.

Don't worry about the slander allegations, that is rubbish, you can go around and say what you like about anyone, that in itself tells you they have had NO legal advice at this point but like I said earlier I think they could make your life very uncomfortable over the advertised costs and miss-selling. Don't think for a minite you'll get any other business in this area now, they are already telling everyone about your company, it sounds as if they have nothing else to do.

[AJCleaningServices]

Martino,
We do specify the area we serve in our current leaflet, however do you not think that we reseve the right simply refuse to work for somebody we do not like for whatever reason.
Regards,
Arthur

[marts - Martin Reed]

arthur

if you specfy in your leaflet the areas you cover then there's nothing legally they can do because they live outside the boundaries....

and yes, off course you have the right to refuse work but remember word of mouth can be good or can have a negative view of your company to other prospective clients...

martino

[andrew chrysler]

Arthur:

Don't take it to heart.

This kind of @ssho!e customer is no doubt such a prat that he has no friends left to tell how unfair you have been.

I have had dozens of similar letters, emails, calls, even a solicitor's letter from one person who we declined to sell a caravan to (because we did not want him as a customer, no other reason, and no racial issue)

They all say "legal advisor" (bloke down the pub) or "solicitor" (bloke down the pub who wears a tie or even "barrister" (bloke down the pub in suit and tie)

I laughed at the one who said "barrister" as anyone who has watched "Kavanagh QC" knows that the public do not instruct barristers, solicitors instruct barristers.........

The solicitor in the above case was quite persistent (the bloke's brother in law) but even he pi$$ed off eventually.

Threats that "I will tell trading standards" or "solicitor" or even "Watchdog" have all been that.... just threats.

I have a waiting list of people wanting to spend £40,000 plus on a new caravan on my park, despite all these unhappy clients threatening to ruin my reputation

An advert is legally an "invitation to treat"... in other words it says that "if you offer me £9 an hour, I might be prepared to accept that fee for my services"

NO CONTRACT EXISTS UNLESS HE HAS PAID YOU AND YOU HAVE ACCEPTED HIS MONEY

Tell the prat to shove his cleaning where the sun doesn't shine, and UNDER NO ACCOUNT do any work for him, as then a contract could be formed.

Word of mouth from a prat like this.... don't worry, he probably spreads rubbish about all sorts of businesses to those people bored enough (and stupid enough) to listen.

One prat talking out of his @rse, versus all your happy customers.....

No contest... you keep your reputation.

Don't let it get to you, there's people like him everywhere. Sleep soundly.

All the best, Andrew.

[AJCleaningServices]

They cannot demand you clean their house, as Martin said that's up to you.

Gary,

I think the same, we have not committed ourselves to do that place and I think that I am not a slave…
 

I'm not sure if I agree with not contacting them again and I would now be looking at this as a damage limitation exercise. If they want to they could prosecute for miss-selling and false advertising, the penalties for that are very stiff and would finish you as a business.

As I said earlier we do not promote our service in that little village.  We have never leafleted it and I have just received confirmation by e-mail from “a very local parish magazine”, which states that they do not cover that area as well, so no miss-selling have been taken place…  

I am not holding a monopoly on providing domestic cleaning service in that area…

...Don't think for a minite you'll get any other business in this area now, they are already telling everyone about your company, it sounds as if they have nothing else to do...

We are very well established in the area we are marketing, they cannot do anything to damage our reputation, as we have not even been working for them…

We do however leave some of our customers occasionally, but I can assure you no one cleaning company is perfect.  We try to do our best, but sometimes we just do not worry when things go differently then we would all wish…  I am sure you know that customers are not saint as well…  We are all humans…

Regards,

Arthur

[marts - Martin Reed]

well put andrew... don't think they'd mess around with you... arthur, give andrew the customers address instead of replying 

martino

[AJCleaningServices]

Andrew you are right, like always,  

I am not worried about their plans to take “actions”… I have even advices them where to go – The Trading Standard Agency.

The more I listen to what they say the more I understand that they have no understanding of what they are talking about:

At first she/he was going to pass my “paperwork” to their “legal department”
Now they say their lawyer
Tomorrow it will be his/her mum?



Regards,

Arthur

[AJCleaningServices]

well put andrew... don't think they'd mess around with you... arthur, give andrew the customers address instead of replying 

martino

Will do 

[andrew chrysler]

I could always write to the customer saying that I won't clean them for £9 either............

Maybe everyone on the forum should write and say that we won't clean him for £9

[*Chris Browne]

thats not a bad idea, give us the email address arthur.......power to the people


chris

[AJCleaningServices]

Thanks,
But would better not...
I have to be careful how I handle this matter...
Regards,
Arthur

[garyj]

The bit that worries me is they have advertised they clean for £9.00, and then quoted £15, this is miss-selling and does contrevene trades discriptions.
Andrew has said he would tell the guy to take a hike and has told people before where to get off, thats easy, we've all done that, I've even done it with a contract worth nearly £10,000 per month. However that is not the issue Arthur is dealing with here. If Andrew had advertised a caravan for £9,000 and when they came to view and buy he told them it is actually £15,000 he would be in trouble.

It is this area, and this area only that would be concerning me right now, like I said I this is a damage limitation exercise and if persued by them, they might well win.

[garyj]

I could always write to the customer saying that I won't clean them for £9 either............

Maybe everyone on the forum should write and say that we won't clean him for £9

Yep, that would help wouldn't it, great idea :

Its not this issue that is the problem.

You have admitted you clean that area by quoting for it, that is your one and only concern here. Forget all the other rubbish that has been written.

But now the word Typical has been added, all this is meaningless.

[busydaffodil]

Just a few comments.  I see you have your Leaflet also advertised in the Yellow Pages.  I clicked on your link and it said this was your yellow pages advert.  Your advert states you have been serving the Ponteland & Darras Hall areas since 2000.  It does not say your work is just confined to those areas.   

Also, when you initally spoke to them, did you say you could fit them in??

Personally, I would now refrain from contacting them until such time that they do persue.  I would then agree to quote,  attend their house and on inspection remark on how many nice valuable things they have, and say you can do the job for £9 but that the work they ask for would take a minimum of 8 hours a week.  They probably will not employ you but if they do,   I would take great pleasure in then doing the 8 hour day myself, relax in their home, iron like a snail & enjoy wasting their money. They'll soon send you on your way.

I really would consider adding "FROM" to your ads & leaflets or dropping the hourly rate.  Also, when you have phone enquiries, and only when asked, you need to state that hourly rates depend solely on distance & hours but that they start from £10  per hour.  The average being £12 though.

Just my opinion.
Lizzy

[andrew chrysler]

If Andrew had advertised a caravan for £9,000 and when they came to view and buy he told them it is actually £15,000 he would be in trouble.

I have had occasions where people have looked at the price of an advertised caravan, who have also seen the prices of the other items such as siting, connecting to services, steps, gas, site fees etc, who have threatened trading standards action.

On the one occasion to my knowledge that the client did pursue the matter, trading standards told her that she had no cause for complaint "just as you need to buy a tin-opener when you buy a tin of baked beans"

Yes, if I deliberately advertised a caravan for £9000 knowing that that was the wrong price, I could be in trouble.

If I accidentally put £90.00 instead of £9,000 that's a different matter.

It's only wrong if there is a DELIBERATE ATTEMPT TO DECIEVE.

You have admitted you clean that area by quoting for it, that is your one and only concern here

No. Arthur has, by quoting, merely "admitted" that he would clean in that area at a higher rate because of the distance involved.

I sold a caravan last month to a client in New Zealand. It does NOT follow that I will deliver it there. (the purchaser wishes to visit relatives in the UK regularly, but wants to stay in her own caravan rather than impose on relatives' hospitality)

Unless Arthur has refused to do the job for reasons of racial or religious discrimination, there is no concern to address.

[andrew chrysler]

Your advert states you have been serving the Ponteland & Darras Hall areas since 2000. It does not say your work is just confined to those areas.

Arthur's advert says

"Serving Ponteland and Darras Hall areas"

"Above rate applies if at least 2 hours of service is taken on weekly basis"

Both these statements appear on the same document, in the same size typeface. It is clear that they are to be read together.

No reasonable person would expect Arthur to travel to Land's End, John o' Groats or Timbuctoo for £9 per hour.

Any reasonable person......... but Arthur's enquirer is far from reasonable, or even necessarily sane!

Saying "Typical Rate", as Arthur says in his advert, is much better than "From". Most customers think that they will pay more than the "from" price, but most customers expect to pay the typical price.

As a licensed credit broker, licensed by the Office of Fair Trading, I am required by legislation to state a "Typical" APR and not allowed to say APR "From". The test is that 80% of customers IN NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES get a rate that AVERAGES the typical rate.

Arthur, you have done nothing wrong, you need to change nothing. It's just that some customers seem to exist just to test our patience and understanding.

[busydaffodil]

Your advert states you have been serving the Ponteland & Darras Hall areas since 2000. It does not say your work is just confined to those areas.

Arthur's advert says

"Serving Ponteland and Darras Hall areas"

"Above rate applies if at least 2 hours of service is taken on weekly basis"

You have seen a different advert perhaps???

This is the one AJ pointed out... http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=17841.0


It actually says on line 2  "Serving Ponteland and Darras Hall areas since 2000"

Then on line 10/11 is says "Above rate applies if at least 2 hours of service is taken on weekly basis"

To me, line 2 is informing the customer that they have been serving two areas since 2000.  It does not imply that it is the ONLY area they cover.

I think we have to be careful of what advice we give AJ here.     The letter he received has "Legal dept" in it and some people here have gone on to say "Bloke down the pub wearing a suit".
Are we not the same?   How does AJ know 100% that the advice we give him is 100% accurate??

AJ......my advice would be to get proper legal advice & not rely totally on what well intentioned people say.   Afterall, the buck stops with you.   We could all be wrong & be leading you into trouble.   Forums like this are excellent, but when it comes to legal threats.......take legal advice yourself.  At least you will know for definite for any future problems.

Regards

[marts - Martin Reed]

dafo's right arthur.... make sure u cover yourself

[Chris_Thomas]

Hi Arthur
Long time since I was involved but "price of service" was exempt under Trade Descriptions, ie it only applied to sale of goods.
Might be worth checking with your local TSO to see if it's still true.
Dontyajustlove the public!
Cheers
Chris

[andrew chrysler]

busydaffodil

You are the calm voice of reason.

Andrew

[busydaffodil]

busydaffodil

You are the calm voice of reason.

Andrew

I know Andrew   

I so want to be a raging hormonal woman who gets her own way even when being unreasonable!!     Alas, I am not.  lol

[PHILC]

I agree with busydaffodil agree to go round and price the job at £9 per hour but tell the person to do a proffesional job to the highest standards it will take however long to cover your costs

at the end of the day its your business

[AJCleaningServices]

busydaffodil,
No offence, but... what does your avatar says...

exactly…you may change it tomorrow, never mind just kidding,

I agree with Andrew 100%, not because he supports me, but because I see common sense in his words.  I will not go there to start work with bad intentions, I am not like that, I am an honest person.  

Gary,
Thank you for your input and congratulations with your 1000 posts.
I do not understand why you would speak about miss-selling.  As I have already mentioned here (please read above) I have never advertised in that area, I have never called them, so have never tried to sell them my service.  

Where did they see my leaflet?  They saw it in “a very local parish magazine”, which is not distributed in that little village.  Or they might saw my advert on a shop window, the shop is also not located in their little village.

So I believe that what I have said in my e-mail was right:

We do charge in Ponteland and Darras Hall areas £9-00 per hour.  It is for us to decide how far from there we are prepared to travel without adjusting our charges accordingly.

That is our position and if they would like to challenge it I look forward to it.

I will not discuss anything any more with the sender of the e-mail, because I have said to them what they should be doing (please read my e-mail to them :).

As far as race issue is concerned their name suggests that they are white, but I do not know for sure whether they are white or not as I have never seen them and hope not to…

Regards,
Arthur

[AJCleaningServices]

... "price of service" was exempt under Trade Descriptions, ie it only applied to sale of goods...

Chris, what does it mean  :, please?
Regards
Arthur

[busydaffodil]

busydaffodil,
No offence, but... what does your avatar says...exactly…you may change it tomorrow, never mind just kidding,

Thanks for that AJ.    No need to thank me for taking time out of my schedule to attempt to assist you.  I will refrain in future.  

 "No truer words are said than when spoken in jest".  


Andrew - I'm sorry hun....even though I know you said I was the calm voice of reason, I'll leave you & the others to help these people.  Offence has been taken......I'll withdraw.

[AJCleaningServices]

...Offence has been taken......I'll withdraw...

NO NO NO do not leave pleeeeease, let me take care of your wounds first...

[busydaffodil]

...Offence has been taken......I'll withdraw...

NO NO NO do not leave pleeeeease, let me take care of your wounds first...

Your sarcasm is not funny...it belittles you.     Your reply to me was very unnecessary....I was trying to steer you into finding out the 100% legal way of resolving your problem.   
I have had no dealing with you prior to this.  Please let it remain that way in future.

[AJCleaningServices]

...I have had no dealing with you prior to this.  Please let it remain that way in future...

You are speaking to me  :  like if I slap your bum...  I did not even think of that… 

Are you going to change your avatar or not?

[andrew chrysler]

I have had no dealing with you prior to this.  Please let it remain that way in future.

Is that the proposed text for a letter Arthur could send to his undesired customer?

[andrew chrysler]

You have seen a different advert perhaps???

No. I have seen the same advert.

"Bloke down the pub wearing a suit".
Are we not the same?   How does AJ know 100% that the advice we give him is 100% accurate??

Point taken, I am not a legal professional. My only qualification is 20+ years in business, and experience in dealing with similar matters on several occasions.

I am wearing jeans, no tie, and I'm not down the pub 

[AJCleaningServices]

I have had no dealing with you prior to this.  Please let it remain that way in future.

Is that the proposed text for a letter Arthur could send to his undesired customer?

Thank you.

I will definitely use it in my last e-mail, which I am going to post to that "undesired customer".  I am just waiting for one more written confirmation from a "locally distributed magazine" where I also advertise.

Regards,

Arthur

[AJCleaningServices]

....I am not a legal professional. My only qualification is 20+ years in business, and experience in dealing with similar matters on several occasions.

I am wearing jeans, no tie, and I'm not down the pub 

Andrew,
I love your sense of humour  and value your opinion  :,
Regards,
Arthur

[Chris_Thomas]

Hi Arthur
It means that Trading Standards couln't prosecute for an ad which indicated the price of a sevice (cleaning etc) which was false or misleading. That may have changed now.
It only applied if you charged for something you haven't done.
Worth checking out.
Sorry for confusion
Chris

[Ali_D]

I work in HR at the moment and prior to that motor insurance.  I've dealt with a lot of disgruntled people in the past and find that the nicer you are to them the more they back down.  I think your reply may have been a bit harsh, which put this blokes back up even more.  He probably sees it that he only lives six miles from you and you want to charge him £6 extra.  Most rational people would say ok, thanks and not bother, but unfortunately there are quite a lot of fruit loops out there and its like walking on egg shells.

Ali

[AJCleaningServices]

Hi Arthur
It means that Trading Standards couln't prosecute for an ad which indicated the price of a sevice (cleaning etc) which was false or misleading. That may have changed now.
It only applied if you charged for something you haven't done.
Worth checking out.
Sorry for confusion
Chris

Chris thank you, I will take a look at it, very interesting...
The thing is I have not sold my service to them, I refused...
Regards,
Arthur

[AJCleaningServices]

…I think your reply may have been a bit harsh, which put this blokes back up even more.

You have not seen my first draft    

…He probably sees it that he only lives six miles from you and you want to charge him £6 extra…

The area that we market is made of 3500 houses which occupied by “cream of society” of the City of Newcastle upon Tyne.  The benefit of working there is that you do not have to travel a lot from one house to another… 

He lives 6 miles away from that little town and I assume he cannot agree to pay more than those reach people are paying for our cleaning service.  Despite I have never been in his house I can say that he is not reach, because he has a small place (only two hours of cleaning) and difference of £6 per hour hurt him a lot…

But why would he not try another company? I tell you coz no one would go there for than £15-00 per hour

Regards,

Arthur

[keith b]

Arthur,

If you unsure about the wording/legal implications of your advertising litriture, it might be worth checking out the "Advertising Standards Authority" website.

http://www.asa.org.uk 

they have a section under the heading of advertising codes, or to be precise "The CAP Code".

As some of the others have said, it might be worth adding the word "from" before showing any prices on future litriture.

Good luck and try not to worry!

keith

[AJCleaningServices]

Thank you Keith,
Isn't this forum a GREAT place 
Regards,
Arthur

[garyj]

Best advice of the day is from Lizzy and it is what I would have done in the first place. Got in touch with my solicitor, FSB or Citizens Advice. Shame she got insulted for it.

Andrew is in the next strongest position, looks like everyone he meets wants to take him to court but no one has yet, so thats OK then, and on top of that he watches Kavanagh QC, that makes him the forum lawyer then.

There are instances of companies being made to honour advertised prices, some have been fined heavily in the past for using practices such as this to gain there market share. We all know that Arthur hasn't done this on purpose, but by the time a solicitor is involved they would make mincemeat of him.

You have to ask is more than a 50% hike in your price to travel 6 miles fair, I have to be honest and say I think that is a rip-off, and that is where you have to be careful. The statement about you working for the 'cream of society' and presuming this chap cannot afford you is foolish and is digging you a bigger hole.

[AJCleaningServices]

... presuming this chap cannot afford you is foolish and is digging you a bigger hole.

I should have said  : that he/she is just jealous to pay more then others do... I said it now...

[garyj]

... presuming this chap cannot afford you is foolish and is digging you a bigger hole.

I should have said  : that he/she is just jealous to pay more then others do... I said it now...

The hole just got deeper  :.

Don't think he is jealous, mad as hell more like and rightly so.

[AJCleaningServices]

Gary I think you are missing one point:

I have never advertised where he lives, I have not contacted him/her first, so he/she should have no reason to expect our service there at our typical rate...

Our marketing is very well targeted at a very specific area, this is enables us to state our typical hourly rate.  I can confirm that we do indeed work for £9-00 per hour over there and we have no intention of miss-selling our service.

Regards,

Arthur

[andrew chrysler]

Best advice of the day is from Lizzy ....... Shame she got insulted for it.

I don't think that Arthur meant any offence, he just made a tongue in cheek comment about a slogan on an avatar.

Lizzy was indeed the voice of reason, a valuable thing when the rest of us see the "red mist"

I hope Lizzy thinks again.... I have enjoyed many of her postings.

Best advice of the day ..... solicitor, FSB or Citizens Advice.

Solicitors cost a fortune, being pragmatic it could be cheaper to pay a £500 fine than pay £2000 to defend the charge

FSB: good advice, not everyone is a member, nor does everybody have access to advice through a Trade Association

Citizens Advice: will not advise businesses

Next best advice is to take advice from those who have been in the same position...... that is the true value of forums such as this.

everyone he meets wants to take him to court but no one has yet,

In 27 years of business, I must have met thousands of customers. Less than a hundred of these have wanted to take me to court.

2 have done so, I defended myself (but with advice from the legal team at my Trade Association: advice I share in my postings), I won the case on both occasions.

Additionally, one has invoked the conciliation procedure operated by my Trade Association, and after due conciliation the complainant agreed with my view and withdrew the complaint.

So that's 3 in 27 years. Not a bad record, really, considering that those 27 years represent maybe £50 million turnover. Multiply the years by the number of staff within the family businesses and you have 1  in 144 years: so a sole trader could expect to have this occur once in every 3 reincarnations..... better odds than the Lottery, but still unlikely that everyone on this forum has experienced this kind of situation.

I am the proud manager of a family business that celebrates its 40th anniversary this year, proud to have lobbied on behalf of my industry at Parliament, proud to have received an environmental award from David Bellamy.

I am never proud to receice a customer complaint, but if the complaint is unfounded, I will defend it to the bitter end. My local VAT office can attest to that, but that is a totally different matter..... suffice it to say that several thousand pounds' professional fees were a wise investment.

All I offer is the product of my experience.

I have some business experience that I am happy to share, in return for the carpet cleaning experience that other forum members share.

You will notice that I have never given advice on cleaning techniques, carpet shrinkage, dye runs etc. That is because my only experience in carpet cleaning thus far is cleaning carpets in caravans, my office, my car and my wife's day nursery (or getting one of the staff to do so) with a Vax (don't laugh, I know now) and more recently a Puzzi 100 (much better, and when a carpet is only 10 feet square you don't need a steempro)

I am on this forum because I intend to diversify into carpet cleaning, I already have a sideline in mobile car valeting (mainly because my car is very dark blue and needs washing and waxing 3 times a week! I had already got 3 vans, 3 prochem steempro's, 3 windsor passports and 3 puzzi's for the small bits, and then I found this forum and discovered that there is much more to CC than "splash and dab". I am not a cowboy operator and I never will be.

Accordingly, staff recruitment has been put "on ice" for a couple of months while I go on the IICRC course in Nottingham and the ProChem course in Manchester. Whilst I won't be doing the work, will be looking for experienced staff and booking on-going training, I need to know what my staff are talking about.

Come May, I need 3 operators and a sales rep in the North West. Recruitment agencies, here I come.

2 months ago I thought TACT was how a carpet was nailed down, not temperature, agitation, chemical, time, and I thought a "spotter" was a football talent scout. Now I know better, and it is thanks to this forum. I am grateful to all forum members for their input, would never knowingly insult one, and I am distressed to see one take offence. Lizzy, if you are reading this, I tried to email you (as I have emailed Arthur) to try and moderate the situation, but you don't have an email in your profile. I don't either, but there's a link to my website so you can email me there if you want to. I don't like to see a lady upset.

You have to ask is more than a 50% hike in your price to travel 6 miles fair,

If Arthur was to keep the price the same, and charge travelling time, 6 miles both ways to drop off and collect staff takes up to an hour on small lanes (I am sure that there is no convenient motorway) so that's an hour for Arthur, driving, and an hour for the cleaner, sitting in the car. To charge travelling time would in fact double the hourly rate for 1 cleaner, at 50% Arthur is being very sensible.

... watches Kavanagh QC, that makes him the forum lawyer then ...

I am indebted to my honourable colleague (as Kavanagh himself might say.... I've got the video's too: John Thaw, an excellent actor and a sad loss.

companies being made to honour advertised prices, some have been fined heavily

I am sure that the OFT apply the law fairly and would see this as a simple misunderstanding

[andrew chrysler]

presuming this chap cannot afford you is foolish and is digging you a bigger hole.

Arthur never made any such presumption. He gave the client a fair price in view of the travelling involved and the client declined it.

All's fair. No potential problems with OFT, citizens advice, court or anything.

It is the customer's bewildering, irrational but ultimately quite entertaining further actions that are the topic.

Customers like this exist everywhere. Talk to anyone who works in Customer Care.

We should unite in support of Arthur who is the innocent party in this matter and who is no doubt worried enough about the matter to seek our advice and support.

[busydaffodil]

Gary....Thank you.    I was only trying to help AJ by pointing out that however expert we all are on here,  that ultimately he would be responsible for how he dealt with the problem and any repurcussions.  My advice was to seek legal advice.    
However well intentioned or experienced we are, I know I would want 100% accurate advice and that can only be obtained from the proper authorities.
  
AJ - your link to your leaflet said it was a copy of what was going in the Yellow Pages.  Obviously, everyone in the UK has access to this.    Once again I would recommend obtaining proper advice on your leaflet wording and take legal advice should your problem with this couple continue.   If my advice/opinion offends,  then please ignore it.    But please dont have a dig at me when all I offered was well intentioned advice.

[AJCleaningServices]

Best advice of the day ..... solicitor, FSB or Citizens Advice.

Solicitors cost a fortune, being pragmatic it could be cheaper to pay a £500 fine than pay £2000 to defend the charge

FSB: good advice, not everyone is a member, nor does everybody have access to advice through a Trade Association

Citizens Advice: will not advise businesses

I am a member of the BICS and they have a free legal helpline, going to ring them tomorrow 

Next best advice is to take advice from those who have been in the same position...... that is the true value of forums such as this.

Andrew I am 100% agree with you.

Regards,

Arthur

[andrew chrysler]

Lizzy, I thought Arthur was just making a tongue in cheek remark relating to the slogan on your avatar, and I am sure that he never meant to give any offence.

We already have a disagreement between a cleaner and a customer, let's not have one between ourselves.

Forgive and forget?

[garyj]

Andrew,

Part of your advice was an email campaign against this chap. Rubbish advice.

You also missed the most serious point entirely, so again rubbish advice.

A £500 fine against £2000 defending yourself and thinking the fine is better, is again rubbish advice, if you win you claim damages and get your costs reimbursed.

The rest of your post is irrelevent and information that is not needed in this argument, what the hell has David Bellamy got to do with it!!!

I also think Arthur is  big enough and ugly enough to look after himself without you second guessing what is going on in his head.

Am I missing something  

[John Kelly]

Arthur

Stop worrying, you can work for who the hell you bloody want to at the rate that you decide not them.

Don't worry about all this legal clap trap, legal bods have bigger fish than you to fry.
Typical rate is fine, banks state typical interest rate but its not fixed.
Bye the way £9 an hour for Pontelend is too low, should be 12-15.
I like your bit about the cream of society, couldn't stop laughing

[AJCleaningServices]

Welcome back Lizzy!

I really did not mean to offend you…

...My advice was to seek legal advice...

…Personally, I would now refrain from contacting them until such time that they do persue.  I would then agree to quote,  attend their house and on inspection remark on how many nice valuable things they have, and say you can do the job for £9 but that the work they ask for would take a minimum of 8 hours a week.  They probably will not employ you but if they do,   I would take great pleasure in then doing the 8 hour day myself, relax in their home, iron like a snail & enjoy wasting their money. They'll soon send you on your way…

Just my opinion…
 

Should your opinion be taken as advice, or advice and opinion are not the same?

…AJ - your link to your leaflet said it was a copy of what was going in the Yellow Pages.

I have never said it, I am afraid… 

My website has not got our price in it, you would not see my leaflet if it was not published on this forum.

…But please dont have a dig at me when all I offered was well intentioned advice.

Lizzy, I am sorry….

Are we friends again?

-----------

Are you going to change your avatar?

[AJCleaningServices]

...I like your bit about the cream of society, couldn't stop laughing

John,
Did you not know that Lotto-rapist lives there 

…Bye the way £9 an hour for Pontelend is too low, should be 12-15…

I like this Phil’s post:

Harrogate, North Yorks, this is a rich area but what I have found is if you market your self as professional (expensive) company you will get the good jobs…
…£14.50 per hour is my labour rate but on some jobs it works out a lot more as much as £17 per hour…  … I would like to think my main compitition is Molly maids and Merry maids pick up loads of x customers from these.But i did fill my book of work on lower priced jobs, once you have money coming in then try to get the worth while jobs. good luck Phil

Regards,

Arthur

[John Kelly]

Did you not know that Lotto-rapist lives there 

Aye Arthur, and he's in good company.

[andrew chrysler]

Part of your advice was an email campaign against this chap. Rubbish advice.

Did you miss the grin.... this part was tongue in cheek and an attempt to lighten the situation with humour.

You also missed the most serious point entirely, so again rubbish advice.

What point do you refer to?

A £500 fine against £2000 defending yourself and thinking the fine is better, is again rubbish advice, if you win you claim damages and get your costs reimbursed.

Against a complainant on Legal Aid? Join the real world!

The rest of your post is irrelevent and information that is not needed in this argument, what the hell has David Bellamy got to do with it!!!

That part of my post is to put perspective on the number of dis-satisfied customers: 3 out of 300 would be a bad business; 3 out of 300,000 isn't.

I also think Arthur is  big enough and ugly enough to look after himself

So what is the point of a forum if it is not to share experiences?

Am I missing something

Yes

[andrew chrysler]

Has Gary gone to join the thousands who want to take me to court? 

Gary, I may disagree with you, you may disagree with me, but if we meet I'll buy you a pint, as long as we talk about something, anything other than this topic!

You'll recognise me from my photo, but I do hope that your photo isn't the real you!

A good discussion with a frank exchange of views, not a declaration of war.

[AJCleaningServices]

Did you not know that Lotto-rapist lives there 

Aye Arthur, and he's in good company.

 

That was exactly what I meant

 

[AJCleaningServices]

...I also think Arthur is  big enough and ugly enough to look after himself ...

Gary,
 : I missed that bit 
That is why  : you did not approach me at CARPEX   

[garyj]

It wasn't me in the blue carrying a notepad at Carpex, I  think that was a lost train spotter. I arrived for Friday afternoon only but still managed to bump into some famous and infamous faces off the forums. I was wearing a brown suede jacket that day and definitely wasn't carrying a notepad.

[AJCleaningServices]

I did not mentioned notepad, I said notebook, a paper notebook I meant, never mind...

...I also think Arthur is  big enough and ugly enough to look after himself ...

Gary,
 : I missed that bit 
That is why  : you did not approach me at CARPEX 

[Paul Forster]

if I quote a price for work then this price is individual to the customer and the property and non negotiatable. I would not even have responded to the guys first email.

For the record  i have had  2 difficult customers in five years of buisiness so Andrew must be doing well to only have 3 in 27!


Paul

[BSF]

Just put from £xx on adverts/websites

Regards

Paul

[AJCleaningServices]

I have just posted my respond:

Dear Mrs SENDER,

This is my last e-mail to you.

I do not know how you found our company, but I assume that you might have heard about us from you friends/relatives or have seen our advert on shop windows in Ponteland or Darras Hall or in “paper”, “paper”. 

Our adverts displayed in shop windows in Ponteland and Darras Hall related to those and close surrounding areas, but not specifically to the dwellers of Stamfordham.  “paper” and “paper” are not distributed in Stamfordham, so our adverts printed over there were not addressed to the dwellers of Stamfordham.  We have never distributed our leaflets in Stamfordham and close surrounding areas.

However we might be prepared to travel as far as it makes a sense for the business.  In you case we would have to travel from Ponteland to Stamfordham four times (take a member of our staff to your home then come back to Ponteland and then again go to your home to take our worker back), 6.3 miles each side, that makes total 25 miles trip.  From our point of view for 2 hours of job in Stamfordham it was reasonable to quote £15-00 per hour. 

You thought it was too expensive.  As we are not the only cleaning company in the North East and you may be lucky try to find someone who would do such job for less.  I would suggest you to try this link. 

As far as your request for us to come and clean your house I should tell you that I am in a position to refuse to offer our services to anybody at anytime. 

I have had no business with you prior to this.  Please let it remain that way in future.

Best wishes,

Arthur Rudzenis

Partner

A & J Cleaning Services

Thanks to Lizzy  : I have used her expression as my last word    
 
As far as I am concerned this is the end of the matter, I will not be responding to her requests/e-mails etc.

[busydaffodil]

Oeeerrr.   Didnt realise my line sounded so dramatic!

Hope that ends your hassles AJ

[AJCleaningServices]

Guess what...

They shut up 

[andrew chrysler]

Phew.......... that discussion was getting a bit heated, wasn't it?

Arthur.... glad they shut up

Daffodil.... welcome back!

[busydaffodil]

lol   didnt go anywhere. I'm always around...usually in the NON CLEANING related section!

Glad your problem is solved AJ.

[AJCleaningServices]

..I'm always around...usually in the NON CLEANING related section!...

Now I understand the true meaning  : of your avatar 
If you spend most of your forum’s time in the NON CLEANING related section, then you should not change it... 

Regards,
Arthur,

PS are we friends again?

[busydaffodil]

sure.   

You'll also see I change my avatar very often.   My favourite is this one


<<<<<<<<< I have a whole pile of them now.  I'm the steptoe of the avatar world

[AJCleaningServices]

Guess what...

They shut up 

True 

Do you know what bit them?













I'll tell you - it is the power of common sense 

Regards,

Arthur

[therapist]

I'm sure this will have caused most, to be more cautious  when marketing their services, but something that was never raised...........

Client expectations !!!!!!!!!!

This will almost never be the same as the providers and to overcome this potential problem, all you have to do, is  "  walk through '' and list everything that the client wishes to be done.      Cost it on a time basis and present this, personalised quotation, which will either be accepted, rejected, or modified.

Only then, will you have a basis for working together and avoiding conflict, other than maintaining standards.

rob m

[Art]

AJ,

 You said at the start  off this thread that you would have to take a cleaner to the house and then go back and pick them up.
Assuming your core business is domestic, is this something you do with all your staff? as i would imagine this must be very time consuming to lift and shift on a daily basis.

Arthur

[AJCleaningServices]

AJ,

 You said at the start  off this thread that you would have to take a cleaner to the house and then go back and pick them up.
Assuming your core business is domestic, is this something you do with all your staff? as i would imagine this must be very time consuming to lift and shift on a daily basis.

Arthur

The area which we serve is very compact, every single house over there is a potential customer, so once you there it is not time consuming to lift and shift our staff at all.

By the way, public transport does not go to Stamfordham - the place where we quoted £15-00 per hour.

Regards

Arthur

[andrew chrysler]

I imagine that a great benefit of "lift and shift" is that Arthur gets to supervise workers, results, performance regularly.

by the way "lift and shift"... what a great term ... perfect for a courier business, much berrer than "man and van" 

[AJCleaningServices]

I imagine that a great benefit of "lift and shift" is that Arthur gets to supervise workers, results, performance regularly...

That is exactly what we do... 

[Art]

I imagine that a great benefit of "lift and shift" is that Arthur gets to supervise workers, results, performance regularly.

by the way "lift and shift"... what a great term ... perfect for a courier business, much berrer than "man and van" 

It is the name of a courier business 

Mine, so don't tell anyone or someone will try and steal the name 

[Art]

AJ,

 You said at the start  off this thread that you would have to take a cleaner to the house and then go back and pick them up.
Assuming your core business is domestic, is this something you do with all your staff? as i would imagine this must be very time consuming to lift and shift on a daily basis.

Arthur

The area which we serve is very compact, every sing house over there is a potential customer, so once you there it is not time consuming to lift and shift our staff at all.

By the way, public transport does not go to Stamfordham - the place where we quoted £15-00 per hour.

Regards

Arthur

Is it purely domestic or do you service commercial customers aswell?

[AJCleaningServices]

Ponteland and Darras Hall are residential ares, we do have couple of offices over there and one elderly house, but we consider ourselves as a domestic cleaning company.  Yesterday I have made some amendments to my website.

Regards,
Arthur

[domestic bliss]

To be honest, It sounds like they have tried everywhere else and are having trouble getting a cleaner for their rate of pay because they would leave it if they were just not happy with the quote.
Personally i would just ignore them.
Usually if i quote for a job and they don't like the price, i just don't work for them , strange that they should make such an issue over it.
Nowt so queer as folk!! ( as they say)

[therapist]

I remember being told that you must never carry out low paid work within your business as your time is valuable and should be priced accordingly.............

If you run your workers around, you are actually working for a proportion of the hourly rate charged to clients.............

Assuming the worker costs around six pounds per hour plus transport, NHI, etc, you would be lucky to end up with two ponds per hour for your efforts..........

Not being facetious, just repeating one of the basic rules taught to me at the Scottish Business School, Glasgow University and they certainly knew what they were talking about.

rob m

[AJCleaningServices]

Thank you Rob, for your advice, but I can assure you we get more than £2-00 per hour...
Regards,
Arthur

[therapist]

Simple economics Art' and everyone should be aware of the danger of  '' not charging your worth  '' by carrying out tasks that don't reflect your "  true value  " to your business.................

This is a message, that every marketing, or management program, advocates, as it's one of the classic traps many fall into...............I did it myself, years ago, forgetting what I'd been taught, in my enthusiasm.

When I put a supervisor  ''on the road" it enabled me to concentrate on building the business..........

Don't regard this as a criticism.....but don't ignore it.........

rob m

[AJCleaningServices]

..When I put a supervisor  ''on the road" it enabled me to concentrate on building the business...

Rob,

Could you please be more specific, explaining "building the business" what is it exactly you were doing.  Building a business is not the same as building a house...

Regards,

Arthur

PS there is a cleaning company in that area which charge £7-50 per hour

[therapist]

Arthur

There are low cost providers of services everywhere and every business, it's a subject that's raised on here as often as t/m's v portables.

If this is where you choose to trade............you will sell your services to a price, rather than sell quality and value.

Why would I use your service

Are you cheap, or do you offer more than the others in terms of quality, reliability, green products, emergency call out, additional services..............in other words, a more comprehensive service, with added value.

Would YOU purchase your service, rather than any other.

Building a business...............

It's exactly the same as building a house...........you need a strong foundation, on which to build. This could be the owner, provided they have the skills, the drive, the energy, or they might lack these qualities and just have vision, but the ability to sell their concept to potential clients, as the package the client needs or wants.

You then require the bricks and timbers, etc, this would be the equipment, chemicals, vehicles, personnel, marketing plan, etc.

To hold this all together requires strong bonding materials, sand and cement, of the correct consistency to withstand natures forces.

Or management..............

To build a business requires focus, singlemindedness and determination..........you have to work at marketing and management, it doesn't just happen.

So,  ''  building the business  '' is, continuing with the market research you did before embarking on your chosen venture.............seeking out additional markets for your services or products.............specialising ,where other providers all do the same ..........
considering additional services which would be compatible with your existing business, but most definitely not doing work, which prevents you from  developing, expanding, increasing, your business.........

hope this qualifies my comments

rob m

[AJCleaningServices]

Arthur

There are low cost providers of services everywhere and every business, it's a subject that's raised on here as often as t/m's v portables.

If this is where you choose to trade............you will sell your services to a price, rather than sell quality and value.

I have already referred many times to this Phil’s post:

Harrogate, North Yorks, this is a rich area but what I have found is if you market your self as professional (expensive) company you will get the good jobs…
…£14.50 per hour is my labour rate but on some jobs it works out a lot more as much as £17 per hour…  … I would like to think my main compitition is Molly maids and Merry maids pick up loads of x customers from these.But i did fill my book of work on lower priced jobs, once you have money coming in then try to get the worth while jobs. good luck Phil

Building a business....

It's exactly the same as building a house…

…hope this qualifies my comments

rob m

Rob, not for me I am afraid, as I heard it before, in August 1999 when I attended a short business course “How to become successful owner manager” at Project North East.

I still do not understand what exactly you were doing after replacing yourself with a supervisor… I would appreciate if you could share your own experience, as this is what this form is supposed to about…

However, as far as my business is concerned - I have a strategy, I know what I am doing and going to do to expand my business, I have been in domestic cleaning industry for more than 6 years now… 

You have been doing it for much longer of course…

Regards,

Arthur

[The Great One]

hi

In my opinion you have not mis-sold anything. you have said, on your advertising that it is 'typically' £9.00. you can say that this area is not typical as far as you are concerned, as you do not advertise in it.

As has been said before finance companies state 'typical interest rate' but of course it is always a higher one.

Ifr they re-contact you say

'' I am sorry but we do not consider your area typical as it is outside our typical area of operations, therefore our typical rate does not apply''

I am not a legal exprt, the above is my opinion only.

Regards

Martin

[AJCleaningServices]

Martin,
They've never got back to me  ,
Thanks,
Arthur

[garyj]

The advert NOW reads typically, however this was only added after advice from this board a couple of days ago. Until then it clearly stated £9.00 per hour. When they phoned and told Arthur they wanted 2 hours per week he said he would do it for £15, it is that which has caused the trouble.

I bet you haven't heard the last of them yet.

Everyone else has written these people off as nutters with nothing better to do who have taken advice from a bloke down the pub. If they have got nothing better to do then this saga could well run.

[BSF]

The advert NOW reads typically, however this was only added after advice from this board a couple of days ago. Until then it clearly stated £9.00 per hour. When they phoned and told Arthur they wanted 2 hours per week he said he would do it for £15, it is that which has caused the trouble.

I bet you haven't heard the last of them yet.

Everyone else has written these people off as nutters with nothing better to do who have taken advice from a bloke down the pub. If they have got nothing better to do then this saga could well run.

I must admit, I noticed that it had changed, always state:

Rates start at or from £xx per hour

this covers you!

Regards

Paul

[AJCleaningServices]

The advert NOW reads typically, however this was only added after advice from this board a couple of days ago. Until then it clearly stated £9.00 per hour....

Gary,

I have never changed the ad which was placed in here.  Just two hours after I have started this topic martin19842 has suggested that I am OK because I used word TYPICAL:

...the word TYPICAL is a good word to use,

if you see some adverts on the tv from loan companies i think the phrase goes "OUR TYPICAL INTEREST RATE IS XXXX"...

There is no point for me alter the ad, which has been published here as I am not having a dispute with members of this forum. 

From the very beginning of this topic I said that I can handle this issue, however I welcome your advices and supportive massages.

I have taken Keith B advice and contacted by e-mail the CAP - Committees of Advertising Practice.  Asking them whether my ad is confusing, they have not yet responded.  I will let you know what they say.

Regards

Arthur

[AJCleaningServices]

...I must admit, I noticed that it had changed, always state:

Rates start at or from £xx per hour

this covers you!

Regards

Paul

Paul, what are you talking about?   

[BSF]

Arthur,

Sorry if i'm wrong,, the main point of my post was to state:

From or rates start at...

If you havent changed it then I make a public apology 2u.

Regards

Paul

[AJCleaningServices]

Arthur,

Sorry if i'm wrong,, the main point of my post was to state:

From or rates start at...

If you havent changed it then I make a public apology 2u.

Regards

Paul

Paul, at least once you admited you were wrong 

Not a problem,

Regards,

Arthur

[AJCleaningServices]

...You have to ask is more than a 50% hike in your price to travel 6 miles fair, I have to be honest and say I think that is a rip-off, and that is where you have to be careful...

I have just posted my respond:

Dear Mrs SENDER,

This is my last e-mail to you.

I do not know how you found our company, but I assume that you might have heard about us from you friends/relatives or have seen our advert on shop windows in Ponteland or Darras Hall or in “paper”, “paper”. 

Our adverts displayed in shop windows in Ponteland and Darras Hall related to those and close surrounding areas, but not specifically to the dwellers of Stamfordham.  “paper” and “paper” are not distributed in Stamfordham, so our adverts printed over there were not addressed to the dwellers of Stamfordham.  We have never distributed our leaflets in Stamfordham and close surrounding areas.

However we might be prepared to travel as far as it makes a sense for the business. In you case we would have to travel from Ponteland to Stamfordham four times (take a member of our staff to your home then come back to Ponteland and then again go to your home to take our worker back), 6.3 miles each side, that makes total 25 miles trip.  From our point of view for 2 hours of job in Stamfordham it was reasonable to quote £15-00 per hour....

...By the way, public transport does not go to Stamfordham - the place where we quoted £15-00 per hour...

[garyj]

What is going on!!!!

It HAS changed, there was even a debate on the word typically and it was suggested it should read from .

If that was the original ad then all of this thread has been for nothing.

Paul no apology is needed it wasn't there.

[AJCleaningServices]

What is going on!!!!

It HAS changed, there was even a debate on the word typically and it was suggested it should read from .

If that was the original ad then all of this thread has been for nothing.

Paul no apology is needed it wasn't there.

Gary, what would you do if I prove the word TYPICAL was there from the beginning?

[busydaffodil]

Ding Ding    round 3

Can I be the one to walk around the ring holding the round number board?

I can dye my hair blonde??   PLEASE!!! 

[AJCleaningServices]

Are you really bovered? 

[garyj]

In that case I would wonder what the whole thread has been about.

I would wonder why MXG suggested using FROM
I would wonder why Martin 19842 suggested using TYPICAL
I would wonder why Marts-Martin Read suggested using FROM
I would wonder why Andrew Chrysler suggested using FROM

I would also be wondering if I am going nuts because I also remember you saying you've changed it.

If the ads you have delivered also say TYPICAL then why the hell have we been even discussing this.

[AJCleaningServices]

In that case I would wonder what the whole thread has been about...

In that case I would not boVer to prove it 

[AJCleaningServices]

...I would also be wondering if I am going nuts ...

No need to wonder here

...I also remember you saying you've changed it...

When did I say that I have change it?

[BSF]

What is going on!!!!

It HAS changed, there was even a debate on the word typically and it was suggested it should read from .

If that was the original ad then all of this thread has been for nothing.

Paul no apology is needed it wasn't there.

Gary, what would you do if I prove the word TYPICAL was there from the beginning?

I'd show me a##e in Woolies window

Arthur,

Sorry if i'm wrong,, the main point of my post was to state:

From or rates start at...

If you havent changed it then I make a public apology 2u.

Regards

Paul

Paul, at least once you admited you were wrong

Not a problem,

Regards,

Arthur

Ive admitted i'm wrong b4, at least twice in my life

Regardo

Paulo

[garyj]

I can admit when I'm wrong and have done in the past.


Prove away Arthur, and Paul let me know which Woolies window your arse will be hanging out of, I'll make sure I'm not in that area that day.

[busydaffodil]

Ive admitted i'm wrong b4, at least twice in my life

Its a man thing.....women are wrong only once......we get married!!

[AJCleaningServices]

What is going on!!!!

It HAS changed, there was even a debate on the word typically and it was suggested it should read from .

If that was the original ad then all of this thread has been for nothing.

Paul no apology is needed it wasn't there.

Gary, what would you do if I prove the word TYPICAL was there from the beginning?

I'd show me a##e in Woolies window

What is going on!!!!...

...I am going nuts...

 

...Paul let me know which Woolies window your arse will be hanging out of, I'll make sure I'm not in that area that day...

...I am going nuts...

 

I just cannot stop  

[busydaffodil]

AJ  -you developed that illness?  Quoteism?


Am I annoying anyone yet?  Or do I need to try harder?
I guess I'm tapping away here, trying to lighten the mood or annoy people and your all overlooking me!  LOL

[AJCleaningServices]

This topic has gone out of hands, I am having so much 

[busydaffodil]

This topic has gone out of hands, I am having so much 

You are!  I'm having a ball!  This is so much fun!!!!

[BSF]

I can admit when I'm wrong and have done in the past.


Prove away Arthur, and Paul let me know which Woolies window your arse will be hanging out of, I'll make sure I'm not in that area that day.

Hanging out of , I'll let you know ive only got a small bum

[Art]

The advert NOW reads typically, however this was only added after advice from this board a couple of days ago. Until then it clearly stated £9.00 per hour....

Gary,

I have never changed the ad which was placed in here.  Just two hours after I have started this topic martin19842 has suggested that I am OK because I used word TYPICAL:

...the word TYPICAL is a good word to use,

if you see some adverts on the tv from loan companies i think the phrase goes "OUR TYPICAL INTEREST RATE IS XXXX"...

There is no point for me alter the ad, which has been published here as I am not having a dispute with members of this forum. 

From the very beginning of this topic I said that I can handle this issue, however I welcome your advices and supportive massages.

I have taken Keith B advice and contacted by e-mail the CAP - Committees of Advertising Practice.  Asking them whether my ad is confusing, they have not yet responded.  I will let you know what they say.

Regards

Arthur

Contacting CAP could have been a bad move. If they've any obligation to report things to trading standards and there is an issue with false advertising, then you've landed yourself right in it.

Having said that i really don't know exactly how it works

Best thing would have been to ignore them

Arthur

[AJCleaningServices]

...Contacting CAP could have been a bad move. If they've any obligation to report things to trading standards and there is an issue with false advertising, then you've landed yourself right in it...

Arthur,

I have always been acting in a good faith, with no intention to mislead my potential customers.  If I did a mistake I will have it corrected, but you will never know if you do not ask.

I have nothing to worry about.

Regards,

Arthur

[Art]

Ding Ding    round 3

Can I be the one to walk around the ring holding the round number board?

I can dye my hair blonde??   PLEASE!!! 

Stop trying to stir  anyway what are you doing over here anyway

[busydaffodil]

Ding Ding    round 3

Can I be the one to walk around the ring holding the round number board?

I can dye my hair blonde??   PLEASE!!! 

Stop trying to stir  anyway what are you doing over here anyway

I'm having a brilliant time....I am an active member of this post I'll have you know!   

Now stop trying to make AJ think our rules are regs people are nasty & they will crucify him.   You too know that this country is a demockracy and is FAIR!   

Now...stop trying to stop me having a giggle.  Naughty boy!!

[Art]

Ding Ding    round 3

Can I be the one to walk around the ring holding the round number board?

I can dye my hair blonde??   PLEASE!!! 

Stop trying to stir  anyway what are you doing over here anyway

I'm having a brilliant time....I am an active member of this post I'll have you know!   

Now stop trying to make AJ think our rules are regs people are nasty & they will crucify him.   You too know that this country is a demockracy and is FAIR!   

Now...stop trying to stop me having a giggle.  Naughty boy!!

Only trying to help AJ stay out of trouble,  good intentions don't help if there is a backlash. Well i did try 

Fair and democratic LMAO now that's an interesting topic, should we start a thread   

[busydaffodil]

on politics?  Oh no!!!   PLEASE NO!

[therapist]

My God !!!!!!!!!!!!

I believe I make myself clear, in what I write and if someone has aspirations to be a success in business and cannot understand the concept , of paying someone else, to carry out low value work, thus releasing themselves to develop their business, something is missing.

I give up on you Arthur and am still confused by the nature of many of your posts


rob m

[garyj]

Haaa Rob, you have mail on ebay.

[therapist]

Confused !

rob

[therapist]

Gone to e bay for a look

rob m

[therapist]

Not guilty

Far as I can see all of the sellers are about 400 miles South of me

cheers

rob m

[garyj]

rmiddleton04 ??
is that not you?

[Liahona]

Rob, may I say it is a pleasure to read what it is you have to post and indeed find what you have to write interesting and clear, best, Dave. P.S. when is this now very silly post going to be locked, please put us out of our misery!!!!!!

[garyj]

Lock it, delete it more like.

The whole thing is pointless, to many posts have been changed.

[AJCleaningServices]

...I would also be wondering if I am going nuts ...

No need to wonder here

...I also remember you saying you've changed it...

When did I say that I have change it?

[AJCleaningServices]

... When they phoned and told Arthur they wanted 2 hours per week he said he would do it for £15, it is that which has caused the trouble...

Yes, Gary, that is right.

[AJCleaningServices]

This topic has gone a little bit funny, but it just because it developed to fast for some people:

What is going on!!!!

... this thread has been for nothing..

and they do not feel very comfortable anymore:

… I would wonder what the whole thread has been about…

I would also be wondering if I am going nuts …

they definitely do not feel comfortable anymore with what they have said:

Lock it, delete it more like…

But there is no reason to lock this topic and I am yet to get back with respond from CAP

Regards,

Arthur

[garyj]

Don't be so arrogant and presume how I feel about something.

That is the one and only warning you'll get from me.

You know very little about anything your arrogance is getting on my nerves.

[AJCleaningServices]

…if someone has aspirations to be a success in business and cannot understand the concept , of paying someone else, to carry out low value work, thus releasing themselves to develop their business, something is missing…

Rob,

I will tell what is missing:
You have not said what exactly you would do to develop my business, that is the missing point.

I am in this business and I know what it takes to run it and to grow it, but unfortunately I am not sure if you do...

Regards,

Arthur

[AJCleaningServices]

Gary,

I don't have a solution but I admire your problem.

Regards,

Arthur

[garyj]

I have a solution to my problem 

[andrew chrysler]

I would wonder why Andrew Chrysler suggested using FROM

Saying "Typical Rate", as Arthur says in his advert, is much better than "From".

No. I suggested TYPICAL and advised against FROM.

Confused Me too

[AJCleaningServices]

...That is the one and only warning you'll get from me...

… I don't have a solution but I admire your problem…

That : what your current avatar says does it not!

I have a solution to my problem

That is the only solution to your problem I suppose.

[AJCleaningServices]

I have just bee on the phone with CAP, they advised me to amend my ad mentioning prices may increase if we need to travel outside the area which we have mentioned in the leaflet. 

I asked them what would happen if those “undesired customers” complained to The Trading Standard Agency or to The CAP.  He said that in the worst scenario in my particular case CAP would ask me to amend my ad in the same way as they have already asked me.  There would be no fine or any other kind of punishment.

CAP adviser has also said to me that from his personal point of view that in case if “undesired customers” would like to take any kind of legal actions against me their chances of success are lower then low.

From my prospective this matter has been finished now. 

Regards,

Arthur

[AJCleaningServices]

Gary, did you not look into a mirror saying this! 

Well, you have a problem then, but do not forget that you have found the solution

[AJCleaningServices]

I do not think moderator would mind if I lock this topic, thank you.