Davew

Why?
« on: July 13, 2007, 05:27:46 am »
I know this will start more trouble but having been on this forum for a few months and listening to claims of incredible wages, why is it that every cleaner in my area wether trad or wfp are working from cars worth about three hundred pounds? Even the established cleaners are running around in beat up escort vans. Is it an image thing? I've gone to the trouble of investing about ten times the money or more with a signwritten van, wfp system etc and am hardly snowed under with work. If you look successful does it put customers off? Admittedly I've invested to make my job easier for myself but when the guy with a dirty bucket and a chamoix leather is making the same wage have I wasted my money?
Another grumble - why is it that people pay for a cleaner but arn't bothered with their frames being absolutely disgustingly filthy? Beats me!

steve k

Re: Why?
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2007, 07:01:01 am »
I have areas where I park my van and walk around the houses (trad)...no-one sees the van.
A customer doesn`t care hat you drive...your advertising will not state what you drive.
The idea of a low cost, drive until wrecked, van and then get another cheap 2 years or so out of the next one is very common amongst many trades.

Good business sense to me...low overheads make the profits go further.

Regarding frames, people don`t see out of frames...if they are filthy, I`ll offer a frame clean at extra cost and give them a wipe over every now and again to maintain them.

Mike 108

  • Posts: 650
Re: Why?
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2007, 10:19:03 am »
Some people are bothered about the frames and some people are not - it depends how 'house proud' they are!  Some of my customers have there gutters, fascias and soffits cleaned every year as well (especially bungalows, where the dirt and filth is closer to the ground and more easily recognised).

I won't clean 'windows' unless the frame is also clean - I think it reflects badly on the window cleaner.

Mike

Mike 108

  • Posts: 650
Re: Why?
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2007, 10:31:53 am »
Davew.

Just a thought - maybe they don't realise how dirty the frames are - they don't get as close up to them as you.

I always point them out and explain that I'll only clean the glass if they pay extra on the first clean to include the frames.  No-one has refused and all have been pleased with the results.

Mike

gordonswindows

  • Posts: 563
Re: Why?
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2007, 11:00:19 am »
Davew

It is annoying when you see the cheapskate cleaner being paid same as you.

To drive a private car for work needs the correct insurance not just the social domestic that we all have, this is dodged by the cheapskate brigade and if they have an accident they are not insured and will pay the costs both financially and in the court for driving while not insured.

Also why no signs on the cars? ask yourself is it because they are hiding from the social? the tax man? their employer?

You will find if you ask a policeman that any vehicle used for business must have the owners name and address somwehre on the vehicle, like on an old bus or a burger van its always written in some corner this is so the public can claim liability if there is ever an accident etc. Maybe the cheapskates do not have public liability cover thats another law broken.

Then the fact of hiding from customers if there are complaints no name on van custy cant find them, its the same as the mobile number only on a van, no address to be traced ,any problems dump the sim card.Just watch rogue traders and see why they use un-marked cars.

Now im sure i will be told thats all they can afford well i agree cos i had an old banger for a while but still put my name and home number on he boot with those cheap sticky letters from Halfords.Now i have all our vans boldly sign written see my post "sign writing"

And if they do not clean frames they are GLASS CLEANERS not window cleaners.

Do not despair they soon either shape up or give up, in our seven years we have seen them all come and go as our reputation for quality has continued to grow.

Do it right, do it legal and you will rise to the top,

Cheers

Gordon
Don't Give Up
@askforthemoney

Neil_A

  • Posts: 347
Re: Why?
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2007, 11:10:10 am »
When i get a new customers i allways ask if they want me to clean the frames aswell... with a small charge ontop for my time...  most say yes
GRADE 'A'

steve k

Re: Why?
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2007, 11:49:04 am »
you can have your private car insured for business purposes at no additional cost. It`s simple.

You do not   have to have your contact details on your vehicle.

Sign writing is just a form of advertising,not a legal requirement.

Many insurers load the premium for sign written vans as you are advertising what is inside to potential thieves.

Selling on a sign written van can reduce the selling price.

A car serves as a family vehicle to many ouside working hours.

Driving a car to a place of work is no indication of professionalism or lack of.

Cleaning glass or frames is an agreement between the cleaner and the customer.

If a window cleaner/glass cleaner has a round of well paying happy customers satisfied with the service their window/glass cleaner is providing and they have his contact details and he drives a clapped out car to and from his round...good on him.

You have no right to assume they are cheats or cowboys.

He may be driving home to a wonderful home he has bought for his family to grow in with a nice family car in the drive.

Plenty of cowboys and cheats out there in nice big signwritten vans doing an awful job.

Mike 108

  • Posts: 650
Re: Why?
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2007, 12:04:16 pm »
steve k

I think you are correct in everything you say.

But I think that Gordonswindows will probably be right about a few things as well.  And, after all, he was trying to give Davew a bit of a boost.

Mike

Scrimble

  • Posts: 2037
Re: Why?
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2007, 12:05:21 pm »
just because someone drives round in a old van or a car makes them a cowboy?

get a life mate, just because you got your name written on your van "which more than likely doesnt belong to you its the finance companys" doesnt make you the best window cleaner around

ronnie paton

  • Posts: 3245
Re: Why?
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2007, 12:31:30 pm »
from my experience its normally the case that some one who still egts the dole doesnt pay insurance and doesnt pays tax have a certain image.

I know of loads of these in my area who have been doing for 10/20 years, it annoys me that they get away with it and no wonder they do do £2.75 houses every 2 weeks.

But im niot saying thats always the case!

I do thinkits time we licenssed window cleaners in england and got it out to the public.

It will help the future of window cleaning and will help get rid of the cowboysm in my opinion!!

paul mather

  • Posts: 528
Re: Why?
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2007, 01:14:35 pm »
Notice this rant came on the back of a bad day you had Dave. Mark my words in a few years time you'll be so glad you have a van & a professional set up & not a fortnightly duster like so many round my way. Because by that time you will have picked up plenty of work & will be making good money.

Sure you can speed it up a little with canvassing but even so it will take a few years before you can really see you made the right decision.

Even after 15 years of cleaning windows I look at my round & wish some parts were slightly better, but yours will evolve over time & what you have in say 5 years may be unrecogniseable from what you do now.

So do get out & canvass & then canvass some more, but remember to stay patient & it will come, it just takes time.
Use the wand of power !!


Warrington, Cheshire

Dick

  • Posts: 304
Re: Why?
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2007, 02:29:00 pm »
wHEN QUOTING FOR A FIRST TIME CLEAN i ALWAYS INCLUDE A PRICE FOR CLEANING THE FRAMES AND IF THE CUSTOMER DOESN'T LIKE THE COST, THEN I TELL THEM " OH THAT DOES INCLUDE THE FRAMES AS WELL" IF THEY DON'T WANT THE FRAMES CLEANED JUST REDUCE THE PRICE A LITTLE AND YOU STILL HAVE A GOOD PRICE FOR THE WORK. EITHER WAY YOU DON'T LOSE OUT.

xxmattyxx

Re: Why?
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2007, 02:43:19 pm »
you can have your private car insured for business purposes at no additional cost. It`s simple.

You do not   have to have your contact details on your vehicle.

Sign writing is just a form of advertising,not a legal requirement.

Many insurers load the premium for sign written vans as you are advertising what is inside to potential thieves.

Selling on a sign written van can reduce the selling price.

A car serves as a family vehicle to many ouside working hours.

Driving a car to a place of work is no indication of professionalism or lack of.

Cleaning glass or frames is an agreement between the cleaner and the customer.

If a window cleaner/glass cleaner has a round of well paying happy customers satisfied with the service their window/glass cleaner is providing and they have his contact details and he drives a clapped out car to and from his round...good on him.

You have no right to assume they are cheats or cowboys.

He may be driving home to a wonderful home he has bought for his family to grow in with a nice family car in the drive.

Plenty of cowboys and cheats out there in nice big signwritten vans doing an awful job.

Well said.

Too many people on this forum who like to put down other cleaners because they  dont have the same work ethic.

I drive a 12 year old vauxhall cavalier, does that make me a cheapskate shiner? despite my customers saying Im the best window cleaner theyve ever had.

If I got a sign-written van would that make me a better window-cleaner than I already am?

matt


gordonswindows

  • Posts: 563
Re: Why?
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2007, 02:55:55 pm »
Well done Davew

This is exactly what is needed to keep the forum real and worthwhile.
A good topic we can all get our teeth into, the for and the against can all express their opinion cos unlike the amount of money being made and bragged about this is true opinions.

As an opion everybody has one .

I do believe my description was of cheapskates and as much as i love True Grit i never mentioned the word cowboy.

Some people do like to jump straight in and make the cap fit though.

I was interested in Steves remarks about the law and looked up his website to read his qualifications but was disapointed to find the website has been suspended.

I do not claim to be an expert on legal matters apart from the ones i have suffered first hand, parking speeding etc but i take my knowlegde from the local constabulary who are experts. I am aware that the laws of the land differ from Scotland to England and i  see that you are catching up (smoking ban free university courses etc) and i believe Liverpool think they are different again but what is wrong with being proud of being legit, paying your taxes and advertising your local small business.

Stand up Davew and be proud of your high standards and advertise your business on your vans. If its good enough for Asda Tesco and Harrods to do it its good enough for the likes of you and me.

Cheers
Gordon



Don't Give Up
@askforthemoney

gary999

  • Posts: 8156
Re: Why?
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2007, 03:51:20 pm »
I will soon be getting a van,got nothing to do with image more to do
with practicality. have been using a trolley system no for around twelve
weeks hard work messing around getting trolley in and out of my ford focus.

have just t-cut my car due to all the scratches and scrapes from ladders ,trolley
etc. a van seems more practical to me.

it wont be brand new it may be an old banger but if it works and does
the job thats all im interested in.

gary :)

steve k

Re: Why?
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2007, 04:35:48 pm »
Well done Davew

This is exactly what is needed to keep the forum real and worthwhile.
A good topic we can all get our teeth into, the for and the against can all express their opinion cos unlike the amount of money being made and bragged about this is true opinions.

As an opion everybody has one .

I do believe my description was of cheapskates and as much as i love True Grit i never mentioned the word cowboy.

Some people do like to jump straight in and make the cap fit though.

I was interested in Steves remarks about the law and looked up his website to read his qualifications but was disapointed to find the website has been suspended.

I do not claim to be an expert on legal matters apart from the ones i have suffered first hand, parking speeding etc but i take my knowlegde from the local constabulary who are experts. I am aware that the laws of the land differ from Scotland to England and i  see that you are catching up (smoking ban free university courses etc) and i believe Liverpool think they are different again but what is wrong with being proud of being legit, paying your taxes and advertising your local small business.

Stand up Davew and be proud of your high standards and advertise your business on your vans. If its good enough for Asda Tesco and Harrods to do it its good enough for the likes of you and me.

Cheers
Gordon


what are you on about...again???

My website is paid by me on a 2 monthly basis and I renew as and when I require a web presence...I do not need it running at the moment but just to show you how it works, I`ll put it back on tonight.

Qualifications... ??? ???

I clean windows with a WFP van system and occasionally trad...have been for 3 years.
I am an Inland revenue registered sole trader, do my tax return each year and carry public liability insurance as well as appropriate insurance for my van.

There are many window cleaners cleaning and earning a great income...legitimately, I might add...using their car as a means of transport.

I use a van as I also powerwash driveways and have a 400L WFP system in my van for my round.

Davew

Re: Why?
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2007, 04:44:59 pm »
To put it another way, there have been loads of claims on here of vast earnings and no doubt some of you are very successful. However having met and made friends with several cleaners in my area there are no obvious signs of wealth from any of them' so either they can't make much money, don't work hard enough,or prefer to give out an image of poverty. Unfortunately I wonder if it is most likely the first option. I have been fortunate to have saved from a previous lifetimes employment. Surely any cleaner of any substance would want the best tools available for his trade.
I think there can be a lot of hype on this site and any newbie (like myself) needs to be aware it's not a shortcut to earning a fortune - you really have to work at it and it takes time to buid. How many other services have the customer bugger off on holiday and not have the decency to call?

twt

Re: Why?
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2007, 05:18:44 pm »
many people dont realise how much they could be earning out of window cleaning and therfore are happy with what they get because they dont know any better.

Many people on here dont know the difference between turn over and take home pay so they bragg about how much they are earning neglecting to mention how much gets swallowed up by equipment cost and donations to gordon brown.

some people do try to maitain an image of being poor so their customers don't know how much their earning

other people may decide that rather than putting money into buying flash vans they put it into other things like their homes etc

other people earn a pitance
 

mark f

  • Posts: 212
Re: Why?
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2007, 05:39:10 pm »
as regards using an old car. I have been window cleaning for 20 years and the majority of that was trad using an old car because i didnt want to spend loads on a vehicle just to do my round. My car was always insured for buisiness, i have always had insurance for public liability, have always paid my taxes and have never advertised, but have always been swamped with work and earn a good living.

  I now have a van with wfp, but dont advertise yet . Why bother. Ive picked up plenty of work just this last month. The only reason i will advertise is to get into commercial as and when i take the plunge.

 I never look down on wc's working on the cheap out of cars. They have less overheads. That is good buisiness sense. If they are undercutting and doing it on the side, that is different, but most are not.

 as regards boasting about amazing earnings, do we want the industry swamped with a gold rush like the plumbing industry has been.  Do you see people bragging about earnings on thier forums now? I doubt it.  nuff said. ;)

 

JM123

  • Posts: 2095
Re: Why?
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2007, 05:43:11 pm »
personally I couldn't care less if other wcs drive an old banger or not.

when it comes to insurance there are a lot of dodgy wcs who don't correctly insure their vehicles, not due to cost but because they are dodging the tax man, simple as that.

one thing that really annoys me is the number of wcs who constantly flout h+s laws but then have the cheek to criticise wfp, I've had a lot of it and it is a source of irritation.  The best bit is a lot of trad wcs honestly think that wfper's have never worked trad and so think we don't know what we are talking about,  had it out with one lad lately who ...arggh, its just not worth it. >:(
Live life in the fast lane.......if you break down you'll freewheel further

Ballymena N.I