[Kinver_Clean]

This is why people use very hot water when using in tank detergents. It aids emulsifying the muck in the second it is in contact with the carpet.

I prefer the prespray/ plain water rinse approach- but everyone to their own.....

[Mike Halliday]

this would be a great topic for the TACCA training day, there is such a lack of knowledge about how specific parts of the cleaning process work and how they interact with each other,

a quick question...... how does using a detergent leave the carpet dryer than using a freshwater rinse?

[Russ Chadd]

If you know the answer Mike... do enlighten us who are hungry for knowledge!!!

[Mike Halliday]

Russ the question was rhetorical..... I do know the answer

When I get back to my laptop I will answer, at the moment I'm on the iPad and I hate typing big posts on the touch screen.

[AshWhite]

My guess would be that surfactants give the water more surface area, so drying is faster.

[Russ Chadd]

I think you may be on the right track there Ash... Found this info

Anionic surfactants

When the hydrophilic part of the surfactant consists of a negatively charged group like a sulphonate, sulphate or carboxylate the surfactant is called anionic. Basic soaps are anionic surfactants. Over the last 50 years many soaps have been replaced with more efficient substances like alkyl sulphates, alkyl sulphonates and alkyl benzene sulphonates.

Anionic surfactants are sensitive to water hardness.

Nonionic surfactants

A surfactant with a non-charged hydrophilic part, e.g. ethoxylate, is non-ionic. These substances are well suited for cleaning purposes and are not sensitive to water hardness.

They have a wide application within cleaning detergents and include groups like fatty alcohol polyglycosides, alcohol ethoxylates etc.

Cationic surfactants

For this category the hydrophilic part is positively charged – e.g. with a quaternary ammonium ion. This group has no wash activity effect, but fastens to the surfaces where they might provide softening, antistatic, soil repellent, anti bacterial or corrosion inhibitory effects.

The most typical applications are for softeners and antistatics.

And here is some data on a Prochem product:

Double Clean
A concentrated heavy-duty extraction detergent, formulated for optimum performance in cleaning heavily soiled carpets. Double Clean contains high quality anionic and non-ionic surfactants, alkaline builders and corrosion inhibitor. Blue powder with citrus mint fragrance.

[Mike Halliday]

nope the answer is much simpler.

when we clean a carpet  we should aim for the perfection situation of a single pass with the wand, with just one wet pass we should remove the dirt. if we can do this we will save time and more importantly not over wet the carpet.

a lot of the problems posted on here are the result of over wetting ( browning, carpet smelling, carpet not drying for 24hrs etc) how could these problem happen with a single wet stroke of the wand? the answer is they don't these problems arise because after the single wet stroke of the wand the carpet is not clean,

 so what do they do?

they do another wet pass....

then another wet pass....

then they get the pump up sprayer.....

 put down some more prespray.....

 and scrub the carpet....

 then they begin again with the wet strokes.....

ALL THE TIME THEY ARE ALLOWING MORE WETNESS TO BE ABSORBED INTO THE CARPET


we've all done it...... we clean in front of the settee and it still looks a bit grafted so we do another wet stroke, still dirty so we press hard on the wand to scrub the carpet  while pulling the trigger all the time we are making the carpet wetter & wetter

so how can we achieve a single pass clean with the wand?

the answer is we u

[wayne zabel]

So basically Mike if I were to put say double clean in the rinse tank the carpet would be noticably cleaner after one pass, than just water?

[Mike Halliday]

wayne detergent in the tank is just one element that will help a single pass clean.

  good prespray + good agitation + hot water + detergent in the tank = one pass clean

amazing, dogs bollooxs prespray + cold water rinse =

why limit yourself by not using every tool you have, we need to remember we don't know if our prespray has worked 100% what iF it only detaches 60% of the dirt off the fibre? how would we know?  not until we do that first wet pass and we see the carpet still looks dirty they we are caught up in the trap off multiple wet passes..... to make up for a 'prespray failure'.

presprays make up a 'soup' of the dirt in the carpet its is not a nice little solution waiting for cold water to wash it out, its a gooey soup still sticking and wrapped around the fibres it needs extra help to totally release from the carpet, this is where hot water and detergent finish off the cleaning

[Russ Chadd]

I see where you are coming from Mike but when dealing with wool / wool mixed carpets the correct pre spray needs to be selected from the very start so the only addertive in the rinse tank is a neutralising one.
Just out of interest, could you give examples of pre spray and in tank detergent combos please 

[L.Doubtfire - The Blade Runner]

With all whats been written and said,,,,dwell time this,,
Agitation that,scrub,rinse and whatever,so far,nothing
By members has been said about avoiding the dreaded
Shrinkage.Especially Axminsters and Wiltons.
The old adage,,,what you leave and drop.Multi-Pro,
Formular 20 Powerburst,it`s `firewater`.
Especially powdered additives.
Members ,over say 20 sq.yds.what volume in quantity
Do you leave for `dwell time.

This should be interesting. :


Lewis  Doubtfire

[Mike Halliday]

I see where you are coming from Mike but when dealing with wool / wool mixed carpets the correct pre spray needs to be selected from the very start so the only addertive in the rinse tank is a neutralising one.
Just out of interest, could you give examples of pre spray and in tank detergent combos please  

Russ you could say its even more important to use a detergent in the  tank with wool as its wool that is a problem with over wetting.

You can still stay within wool safe perimeters using a detergent  F90, Prochem liquid woolsafe , chemspec high heat all are ok on wool.

We need to remember what I said earlier we only leave half a teaspoon of detergent on a average carpet, it's worth  leaving that for the benefit a detergent gives.


Ps: Lewis sorry mate your post is gobbledygook what are  you trying to say? Do you post with a smartphone? As your posts are staggered

[L.Doubtfire - The Blade Runner]

Hi Mike,I guess and recon I`m out of the old school perhaps.
I`ve used Pro-Chems Multi-Pro since the early 70`s.And
Powdered Formular 90 since about 1990.Both are my own
Personal favorites.I`d like Danny to come back and say what
Liquor / solution `drop`he did or does over say 20 sq.yds.


Lewis  Doubtfire

[Daniels cleaning]

Hi everyone thanks for your posts...i didnt expect all the helpful info... i prefer to power burst 1 scoop per litre..which i have found effecrive on all carpets...if i clean wool or light carpets i will acid rinse...otherwise i add prochem extraction to the tank... i feel prochem extract pro dilluted as advised is perfectly adequate in rinsing the powerburst as i only use power burst in high traffic areas..
Thoughts please?

 Thanks

[L.Doubtfire - The Blade Runner]

Danny,I`m finding your post perhaps as confusing as what
Mike Halliday has found mine.
You write on your last post “your thoughts please”
Go back to your original post.
Can you clarify irrespective of what chemicals / solutions
Your using and say approximately how much are you leaving
Down to `”dwell`in the carpet fibres  thanks


Lewis  Doubtfire

[Paul Moss]

this would be a great topic for the TACCA training day, there is such a lack of knowledge about how specific parts of the cleaning process work and how they interact with each other,

a quick question...... how does using a detergent leave the carpet dryer than using a freshwater rinse?

Mike I think you have just talked yourself into doing a training session for the TACCA day, and it would be great to see you again

What does every one else think?

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Formula 90 is an encapsulation product and dries to a micro powder easily vacuumed away you can also dilute it down even more and it becomes into the parameters of wool safe (although not with the logo)

Shaun

[Russ Chadd]

This is interesting and some good replies from everyone... today i cleaned some restaurant chairs for  a friend of mine, to be fair they were lightly soiled... Dug out some Prochem products i had in the garage...
After i vacuumed them to death to remove as much of the dry soil and dust as possible, i pre sprayed with Prochem's Fabric Restorer.
I then agitated using my nylon scrub brush and left to dwell for around 10 - 15.

In the tank of my little Ashby's steam boosted spotter i added the recommended amount of Fab Clean.

Hand on heart did adding the Fab Clean help? no not really... all it seemed to do was add to the foam issue i was having with the pre spray!
I did try and extract with and without and found no difference in the amount of wet strokes i was having to use in order to rinse the soils from the fabric.
The heat from the spotter did help to achieve a drier fabric once i had completed, a dry towel was all that was needed to finish.

Maybe this was the wrong combination of chemicals to use... ?

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Fab clean is like tatty water it's just full of optical brighteners! the heat will increase the speed of the chemical reaction so you get back to what mike is saying about the one clean pass or at least lesser amount of passes.

Most soils are grease based, by breaking the bond and suspending most of the soils with a pre spray you are left with a percentage that still is left so a rinse detergent will then again break up some more with chemical solution heat and further agitation with the wand.

Shaun

[Russ Chadd]

Hi Sean

In your opinion, what combination would you of chosen? what in tank detergent have you used which you have been impressed with?

Cheers

Russ