[ian harper]

http://www.cleaning-carpet.co.uk/essex/electric-truck-mount/

Respects to this guy for building this.

I would have gone the Kit car model. take all the parts from a high spec portable and used them in a custom chassis and added the extra parts in with a self build kit.

some of the mods I would do is go for a smaller recovery tank and even alone prowler lines this would give you a long vac hose run as you dont have to fill a big tank with air.

maybe use the cfr method as again the air gap is always small.

third vac

if you used cfr as donor you would have good heat.

power from leads mounted on front from customers house so no gen. have you seen cfr new power leads that have screw attachments so that would help.

water could be from hose on baffle tank or on board.

if you think about most jobs you can pull up outside so the only extra run would be from van to door. so the power would work with that extra vac and small recovery.

lots of other things you might try is hose size, no recovery or fresh water tanks.

How would you design a "Kit Carpet Cleaning Machine"

[peter maybury]

there is probably a lot of us in this industry that have done similar things and after spending uncountable hours of time and wasting a lot of money, realise that we still have nothing remotely comparable to a genuine truckmount. At the time that i was doing such things, I was unaware of what was available on the market. This was long before the internet became popular. In these days there is less excuses for such ignorance.
The look on  the faces of the woodbrige guys who were demonstating their electric truckmount said it all after Simon Gerrard's titan went over the area they had been cleaning for hours.

Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.comhttp://

[john martin]

there is probably a lot of us in this industry that have done similar things and after spending uncountable hours of time and wasting a lot of money, realise that we still have nothing remotely comparable to a genuine truckmount. At the time that i was doing such things, I was unaware of what was available on the market. This was long before the internet became popular. In these days there is less excuses for such ignorance.
The look on  the faces of the woodbrige guys who were demonstating their electric truckmount said it all after Simon Gerrard's titan went over the area they had been cleaning for hours.

Peter



www.carpetcleanercardiff.comhttp://

Dont think its fair to sum up the Mytee Escape like that based on one demo   ....
The carpet result difference you saw could purely be down to heat  ....  the escape had small gas burner custom added by woodbridge  ....   did hey even turn it up fully during the demo  .  Im sure a full size heat source ( little giant ) or additional electric inline could have made a difference .
No one who felt the hose end dissed the vac performance ...

[john martin]

http://www.cleaning-carpet.co.uk/essex/electric-truck-mount/

Respects to this guy for building this.

I would have gone the Kit car model. take all the parts from a high spec portable and used them in a custom chassis and added the extra parts in with a self build kit.

some of the mods I would do is go for a smaller recovery tank and even alone prowler lines this would give you a long vac hose run as you dont have to fill a big tank with air.

maybe use the cfr method as again the air gap is always small.

third vac

if you used cfr as donor you would have good heat.

power from leads mounted on front from customers house so no gen. have you seen cfr new power leads that have screw attachments so that would help.

water could be from hose on baffle tank or on board.

if you think about most jobs you can pull up outside so the only extra run would be from van to door. so the power would work with that extra vac and small recovery.

lots of other things you might try is hose size, no recovery or fresh water tanks.

How would you design a "Kit Carpet Cleaning Machine"

That Terry Brevic guy has been welding his cooking vats together for years  ...
The machine is only slightly less crude than the man himself if you read his OT rants .

Forget the Americans  , this is 230v land 
we can have 4 vacs from a regular pulg socket  ....   the yanks have to use all kind to splitters and dryer sockets to get more than two going ...  or a huge generator ..

All the bits you would need for a DIY is available online of from would local hardware store  ....   gutting a portable would be a laborious way to it imo

[Steve Gunn]

To be fair this was a picture of a pad after it had been cleaned by the electric t/m and the titan

[Simon Gerrard]

The problem with the Escape and other van mounted electric machines is that you have to be able to park very close to your job and be able to run multiple electric cables to it in all weathers and perhaps deal with customer objections to you sapping so much power from their property.
To be fair putting an Escape up against a Titan 875 is like putting a Reliant Robin against a Formula One car, but even so there shouldn't have been such a big visual difference between the patch of carpet at the TACCA day but some of that can be put down to the difference between the fixed head of the Mytee T-Rex and the Rx20/HE.

I disagree with John, the difference wasn't just because of the heat (270 degrees) against barely warm, it was all about massive power and that is what you forgo when you if you make the mistake of thinking that their is any such thing as an electric truck mount.

Simon

[Nick Attwood]

Just don’t get it myself!an Electric T-Mount?? why? What are you going to befit from?? and if you do why not use a proper blower run by an electric motor!

[John Kelly]

You can't get an electric motor powerfull enough to run a blower off 13 amp mains.

[john martin]

The problem with the Escape and other van mounted electric machines is that you have to be able to park very close to your job and be able to run multiple electric cables to it in all weathers and perhaps deal with customer objections to you sapping so much power from their property.
To be fair putting an Escape up against a Titan 875 is like putting a Reliant Robin against a Formula One car, but even so there shouldn't have been such a big visual difference between the patch of carpet at the TACCA day but some of that can be put down to the difference between the fixed head of the Mytee T-Rex and the Rx20/HE.

I disagree with John, the difference wasn't just because of the heat (270 degrees) against barely warm, it was all about massive power and that is what you forgo when you if you make the mistake of thinking that their is any such thing as an electric truck mount.

Simon

Multiple electric cables ?   its two !   ....  cable tie them together and its one   

The demo did not show its capabilities due to the lack of heat  and as you point out the type of dreadful carpet not suiting the T-rex .
Woodbridge should have switched to a wand or brought along a piece of carpet representing the domestic market in which the Escape could be used successfully .

Most domestics , depending on your area  , you can park right up the door .

[john martin]

Just don’t get it myself!an Electric T-Mount?? why? What are you going to befit from?? and if you do why not use a proper blower run by an electric motor!

Yes , like john says , the Electric motor and Blower machine we've seen in the past are less efficient than the 4motors combined in the Escape .

Benefits of an ETM  , most who've used a Bane in the past seem to rate its use for convenience  ,  low maintenance and running costs  ,   even though it was about three times less powerful than the Escape .

[Simon Gerrard]

The problem with the Escape and other van mounted electric machines is that you have to be able to park very close to your job and be able to run multiple electric cables to it in all weathers and perhaps deal with customer objections to you sapping so much power from their property.
To be fair putting an Escape up against a Titan 875 is like putting a Reliant Robin against a Formula One car, but even so there shouldn't have been such a big visual difference between the patch of carpet at the TACCA day but some of that can be put down to the difference between the fixed head of the Mytee T-Rex and the Rx20/HE.

I disagree with John, the difference wasn't just because of the heat (270 degrees) against barely warm, it was all about massive power and that is what you forgo when you if you make the mistake of thinking that their is any such thing as an electric truck mount.

Simon

Most domestics , depending on your area  , you can park right up the door .

What about third floor apartments and other hard to reach places? The gamble for anyone investing in an eot is that they will be able to operate it every type of situation and that could be a problem.

Simon

[john martin]

The problem with the Escape and other van mounted electric machines is that you have to be able to park very close to your job and be able to run multiple electric cables to it in all weathers and perhaps deal with customer objections to you sapping so much power from their property.
To be fair putting an Escape up against a Titan 875 is like putting a Reliant Robin against a Formula One car, but even so there shouldn't have been such a big visual difference between the patch of carpet at the TACCA day but some of that can be put down to the difference between the fixed head of the Mytee T-Rex and the Rx20/HE.

I disagree with John, the difference wasn't just because of the heat (270 degrees) against barely warm, it was all about massive power and that is what you forgo when you if you make the mistake of thinking that their is any such thing as an electric truck mount.

Simon

Most domestics , depending on your area  , you can park right up the door .

What about third floor apartments and other hard to reach places? The gamble for anyone investing in an eot is that they will be able to operate it every type of situation and that could be a problem.

Simon

True ..  but im sure most users would have a small portable and a rotary in the van also anyway .

[Ed Valentine]

IMHO, This isn't a question about One electric TM being more powerful than another because that can be had by plugging in here, there, and everywhere.

Instead I would imagine its more about achieving MAXIMUM performance on 2 cords from one location (rather than having 3-4-5-6 cords) and able to run a reasonable distance (150'-200') from ones vehicle and achieve clean, dry carpets. Anything greater than Maximum means more cords, more inconvenience, and hassles.

I know this to be true because I have experienced it going way back to the early 70's.

I wanted then, as Operators demand now, convenience, performance, and as dry of carpeting/fabrics as I could achieve without the hassles of blowing circuits, and/or laying down more cords from one location.

Therefore, there are "options" out there for anyone researching for a ETM and who desires a portable for high-rise and security jobs. That's referred to as: "Versatility".

Best to all;
Ed Valentine

[peter maybury]

My post is based on years of messing around trying to build my own stuff and spending time going around the country seeing what like minded people were doing in other areas. Not just seeing the look on the woodbridge guys at the tacca day, I have seen that look many times before, from people brining their "truckmount powered electric machines" to clean carpets alongside me.
There are a lot of arguments and to be honest I have had so many different setups there is just so much sense in having the real thing rather something that others are trying to emulate. I do a lot of rentals where there is no electricity. By the time you cover all the angle you might as well get the right tool in the first place. Some will still argue with somebody who has wasted so much of his time doing the things being talked about but wise words often fall on deaf ears. I wish that I had put the time spent experimenting on  the machinery side into marketing and other aspects of the business

Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.comhttp://

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

Why not just have a proper TM and an electric machine as back up. LM can often be used when there are access issues.

Bane machines have a reputation for reliability because they were designed to work well within their capabilities.

These electric Truck mounts will be expensive to maintain as the vacs breakdown.

Cheers

Doug

[peter maybury]

The hotter you go the less life there is in an electric vac motor The bane was a really reliable machine but they were about £12,000.
They still keep their value second hand and the real advantage that people bought them for was the fuel saving and not the performance in comparison to a truckmount.
Truckmounts are so reliable these days, I spend far less on mine than I used to spend keeping the electrical equipment needed to do large areas going.

Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.comhttp://

[john martin]

My post is based on years of messing around trying to build my own stuff and spending time going around the country seeing what like minded people were doing in other areas. Not just seeing the look on the woodbridge guys at the tacca day, I have seen that look many times before, from people brining their "truckmount powered electric machines" to clean carpets alongside me.
There are a lot of arguments and to be honest I have had so many different setups there is just so much sense in having the real thing rather something that others are trying to emulate. I do a lot of rentals where there is no electricity. By the time you cover all the angle you might as well get the right tool in the first place. Some will still argue with somebody who has wasted so much of his time doing the things being talked about but wise words often fall on deaf ears. I wish that I had put the time spent experimenting on  the machinery side into marketing and other aspects of the business

Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.comhttp://

I can see arguments for and against ETMs  , portables and Truckmounts  ....  
but someone buying an Escape doesn't fall into the  ' wasting time messing in your shed category '  as its ready to go to work as is .
The reason the Demo didn't work well is because the T-rex rotary didn't make good contact with that particular carpet  .... little to do with the Escapes capability of water recovery .
The same has been noted with the T-rex on the US forums .

The Escape has the most performance of 2cords currently available on any machine  , as it has both high lift and high CFM   .....   unlike the twinvac parallel pretenders .

It also has 2000psi ... APO .. and flood pumpout  , which would be too heavy and impractical in a portable .

[john martin]

Hi Guys

Why not just have a proper TM and an electric machine as back up. LM can often be used when there are access issues.

Bane machines have a reputation for reliability because they were designed to work well within their capabilities.

These electric Truck mounts will be expensive to maintain as the vacs breakdown.

Cheers

Doug

Thats a good point , but if your a bit savvy you can get the exact motors from centralvacuummotors.com   for 85+ import
Cant think of any other major running expensive your likely to encounter .

[wynne jones]

Like Scottie says, its the laws of physics. You will never match a fuel based TM. Work hard, save up and buy a proper one.

[john martin]

Like Scottie says, its the laws of physics. You will never match a fuel based TM. Work hard, save up and buy a proper one.

You can measure most things in Physics      ...

It measures about the same as an 18hp 36 blower .

This is a Mytee Escape and T-rex on a more suitable carpet   ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjI5Wk_LKx0

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I think you have to look at what you want it for and what you want to achieve, someone like Simon it has no use it won't do the long hose runs.

Shaun

[ian harper]

Two benefits

One lower overheads over the more expensive petrol type so better ROI for YOU
Two, marketing customer will not know the difference

Just like you get a range of cars this would fit between a portable and TM

plus the "Kit car" self build anyone would be able to do it. all the parts you need are on the donor. all we need know is some bright spark to draw up some plans make some videos and we are away -)

why buy something already assembled most of the cost is in putting it together. gamers build their own custom PC's

[wynne jones]

Who buys kit cars. Someone who wants something that looks like a Ferrari but all they have is a ford escort.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

You need to have a word with nick, him and Gordon are making one...well if Gordon can get round to it

Dave Ingram made a few etms all run with a blower and off one cord.

Shaun

[ian harper]

TM carpet cleaning prices at portable price now there is a thought save a lot of confusing for the customer comparing like with like in their eyes.

I have thought about getting another normal TM and offering that as an upgrade.

People buy outcomes not process. the process of getting to a clean carpet really matters little. so as an example

the outcome of drive from a to b in your Escort is the same as the Ferrari but you pay a premium in the Farrari

If you are selling outcomes and process is left to the customer and how much they think that outcome is worth. after all once the carpets clean the process matters little.

I say the TM process is worth an extra what £50 a job. all that extra overhead 

its never be done before but I fancy a try, at the moment a customer has to choose between me and someone else if they what or believe a TM will do a better job, but lay it out give the customer the choice and see by the numbers which they choose between me and me. If I am right the TM will get dusty, if I am wrong well i be a little richer.

That's my goal for the coming 12 months and making it public makes it one that will motivate me

[Shaun_Ashmore]

But people don't know what tms are they only want the benefits that you the cleaner will sell to them.

Ian you would do really well with a lm system.

Shaun

[peter maybury]

I price work at my prices. Having a truckmount allows me to do the work a lot faster and more efficiently and so gives me a much higher hourly return. Whether the customer knows what a tm is who cares and who wants to spend longer on the job than is necessary?
Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.comhttp://

[ian harper]

Peter

Spot on. Where your working full days the only way to make more money is one put your prices up and two lower your overheads

[Russ Chadd]

I have only run my Enforcer from my van once... to be honest its easier to roll the thing off and place it nearer the house!
Shorter vac and solutions lengths plus if i am bucket filling it makes life easier!
Then there is ventilation to consider, even with the exhaust vented out of the van the motors are gonna get hot especially in this weather.
There have been some very valid points made in this thread, i for one have experimented with van mounting, using hot water pressure washers etc.. and for me it has gone full circle... i use a portable as a portable.

Unless someone can create an electric machine which works almost the same as a gas powered TM with the same performance... buy a regular TM
 

[ian harper]

Russ

 how about this one with four vacs, plus it can have other modules like heat added

http://www.mytee.com/products/escape-etm-electric-truckmount/#.UgPkAdWnapi

[jasonl]

Peter

Spot on. Where your working full days the only way to make more money is one put your prices up and two lower your overheads

Or  employ people

[Russ Chadd]

Ian I was at the TACCA day and had a good look at the escape, it's probably the most powerful electric machine out there... What puts me off though is the fact that it can't be removed easily, your gonna have to run two lengths of cable to the van and I you want heat then it's gonna have to be one of those propane heater...
I would just buy a TM

[john martin]

   Actually ....  they now supply bolt on cart to make it removable  ,  i believe this was
  requested by some customers who had large dedicated rug cleaning centers so they could move it around ... or if you had a big job like a casino , hotel ....  or a cruise ship      

But still its a ramp job im sure to remove ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cDfnZGy22I

Its not perfect and i believe the UK manufacturers could do better job and perhaps slightly lower the cost ...  but its commendable for Mytee to get this to market  .

Heat wise  ... the Americans would just whack a big propane heater on ... job done .
propane does not seem to be a hugely popular option here apart from the fact that the machines are not readily available .
I think woodbridge fit a small propane on an uploader so it circulates to the watertank when your not using wand and direct when u pull wand trigger .

You might have to creative to get heat ...
Options would include ...
Diesel burner .
heat storage tank with exchanger connected to van cooling system .
An immersion heater in your supply water tank thats plugged in when not using machine .
Inline heater circulating water to your supply tank when not using machine .
A combination of above with smaller inline near the wand  ...  or full size inline on a different circuit .
Motor exhaust heat exchanger combined with small inline heater .

[ian harper]

minds not made up yet which way as its really first and foremost for marketing. time is on my side at the moment so can look at all options. we have lots of feedback from customers as to what TM owners are saying in our area so have to do something about it. giving the upgrade option to customers will sort that out I think.

jason had 20 staff in my maid service would not do it again.

[Simon Gerrard]

I don't think offering ETM as an upgrade is viable as it suggests that what you have been offering to date isn't up to much, despite you having sold it to them as a top notch service. If you want to use TM as a marketing tool then launch it as such to all of your customers as a new, higher standard of cleaning at the same price. The thought that next time they have their carpet cleaned by you they will get a better result because of your investment (which is showing commitment to them) and so have them stay loyal to you.
A TM is a huge marketing tool and brings in lots of new business and helps you keep the customers you've already got . Market them as having this all singing, all dancing state-of-the -art technology and then show up with an electric machine mounted in a van that saps their electricity isn't going to represent progress to them.

Simon

[john martin]

I don't think offering TM as an upgrade is viable as it suggests that what you have been offering to date isn't up to much, despite you having sold it to them as a top notch service. If you want to use TM as a marketing tool then launch it as such to all of your customers as a new, higher standard of cleaning at the same price. The thought that next time they have their carpet cleaned by you they will get a better result because of your investment (which is showing commitment to them) and so have them stay loyal to you.
A TM is a huge marketing tool and brings in lots of new business and helps you keep the customers you've already got . Market them as having this all singing, all dancing state-of-the -art technology and then show up with an electric machine mounted in a van that saps their electricity isn't going to represent progress to them.

Simon

This guy is happy to market the Escape and a Prochem Everest  alongside each other  .

http://www.orlandocarpetcleaning.net/RHINO_ROTARY_VIDEOS.html

Doubt if the customer really cares  , even with a truckmount they will still see  the airmovers plugged in , the rx20 plugged in  ,  the rotary  ...etc
They wont notice another two little cables     

[ian harper]

Simon

ETM or Normal TM whichever one its a choice between me and me not me and you. Thats the point

plus whatever percentage the portable market is from a TM viewpoint its money left on the table for any TM owner not an issue if your working full days, but if your upgrading then the time spent on your customer database could and I say could be wasted because of the perfered business model (TM or Cheap end) that type of customer normally go for.

Buying a TM or ETM must have an effect on your customer base?

JUst think how much money a TM owner misses out on. sure they might work less for more, but surly any down time is lost money?

its the same at the other end where i work with rental. I found these people once you get them to use you the best repeaters.

In the end its outcomes that people buy and choice is good for them.

[Simon Gerrard]

Hi Ian,
Apologies, I put TM in my post instead of ETM which I have now changed and that might make my point clearer.
I wasn't telling you what to do, just making a point.
I don't see how you can 'upgrade' to an ETM when that's not really an upgrade that would offer significant benefits to your customer as it is only an electric machine fitted into a van. The experience of many people who have upgraded to a TM is better results, faster drying times, much more productivity and a very positive customer experience, many of whom say, 'wow,' it wasn't that clean last time. Having that level of quality and the perception the customer has of a better result is the glue that keeps them with you on a long term basis. That's not to say that you can't build a loyal following with other technologies, far from it.

Simon

[Radek Jablonski]

many of whom say, 'wow,' it wasn't that clean last time.

was told that many times even when I was using santoemma sabrina on my very begining 
simon I know you are proud of having that powerfull TM but come on, relax and stop thinking about your beast all day   
there is no point of having any TM if you are not a very busy operator (like you I supose) who can manage his jobs in 8hrs day shift, loosing money.

[Hilton]

Bigger and bigger more poweful TM's be they electric or petrol are pure vanity on the side of the carpet cleaner and are not necessary in 'most' cases.

I take on board (excuse the pun  ) if you are doing ships or large commercial on a 'regular' basis then the correct machinery for the job would be required, which is just obvious,,,,but as far as the domestic customer is concerned the old maxim 'its the hole they want,not the drill bit ' that applies.

Do I care if my plumber turns up to fix a leak with the latest shiny new RS tools or with a bit of kit from Wicks, of course not, we dont look and are not interest we just want the desired outcome.

Why MUST buying a TM or ETM have an effect on customer base and why is there a different market for TM ,Portable or LM all the markets the same,surely.

[Peter Sweeney]

That last post shows how little you know of any of the mentioned markets.

[Hilton]

Please educate me then.....

[Andrew Briscoe]

I had a plumber reccomended to me, I needed the hot water tank replacing
as it had a small leak, straightforward job really, guy turned up and opend up
a few new packages of wrenches, 2 weeks later he finished the job, turns out he had just gone selfemployed after working for another plumbing company.

It should only have been a days work at the most, he messed it up 1st day, failed to finish it second day, then failed to turn up.

If he had the propper tools for the job, I would of been happy and reccomended hi, I didnt

[Hilton]

Right, so it was nothing to do with the tools he was just incompetent.

[Andrew Briscoe]

Right, so it was nothing to do with the tools he was just incompetent.

 should of added he rounded off all the joint connections trying to grip them,
so incopmetant and wrong tools

[Paul Moss]

Andrew i always thought you walked like a plumber 

[wynne jones]

The benefits to me of a TM are speed of work and ease, which means more money in less time. Any additional benefit as a marketing tool etc is a bonus.

Does it cost me to do this? Of course it does but the return is far greater for less effort. I'm happy for someone else to use an electric whatever as I don't have to use it.

 

[Andrew Briscoe]

Andrew i always thought you walked like a plumber 

you'll walk funny when I kick you in the plumbs 

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

Having a TM sets you apart from the majority of the competition, thereby making it easier to get better prices.

It's all about USP's having something that is better and perceived as better.

The acid test for me is old customers who regularly say your 'new' machine is much better, i.e does a better job.

Cheers

Doug

[Hilton]

Hi Guys

Having a TM sets you apart from the majority of the competition, thereby making it easier to get better prices.

It's all about USP's having something that is better and perceived as better.

The acid test for me is old customers who regularly say your 'new' machine is much better, i.e does a better job.

Cheers

Doug

Hi Doug,

Would you not agree then that like wise having a DF system or Texatherm sets you apart from the competition and the USP is easier to market than a TM ?

Have you raised your prices to your old customers 'because' you have a TM  and have to recoup return on investment or just because it was time to readjust your pricing.

Chappie at the top has ducked out of answering how the market differs because you have a TM, I dont believe it matters what set of equipment you have the 'market' is the same other than for reasons I have already mentioned, simple fact is the huge majority of Mrs J Public is ignorant of how a clean carpet is achieved and know nothing about carpet cleaners, the NCCA or any other body for that matter.

Personally I dont believe the customer gives a rats arse what your using so long as the desired effect is achieved, the price is correct and that they like having you work for them.

Now when it comes to carpet cleaners and our own ego equipment matters big time 

[Mike Halliday]

I use a truckmount and can't remember the last time I mentioned it to a customer. And can't remember a customer asking what equipment I use.

Can't really agree that a truckmount helps you get better prices, what price you get is solely based on your ability to sell your services, I get good prices not because  I'm a fantastic carpet cleaner  but because I have a good understanding of how to sell

[Simon Gerrard]

I've lost count of many phone calls we've had over the years with people saying, 'is it you with the big machine in the van?'

Owning a TM is nothing to do with EGO, that's absolute rubbish, as if any competent business person would spend so much money purely to say they have a TM. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the reason most TM operators have a TM is for the extra productivity which translates directly  into raw earning power and that alone justifies the add expense.
The other thing is that when people have their carpet cleaned with a TM, some, but not all comment on how much cleaner and drier the carpet is and associate that (rightly or wrongly) with the TM.

Simon

[Hilton]

I've lost count of many phone calls we've had over the years with people saying, 'is it you with the big machine in the van?'

Owning a TM is nothing to do with EGO, that's absolute rubbish, as if any competent business person would spend so much money purely to say they have a TM. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the reason most TM operators have a TM is for the extra productivity which translates directly  into raw earning power and that alone justifies the add expense.
The other thing is that when people have their carpet cleaned with a TM, some, but not all comment on how much cleaner and drier the carpet is and associate that (rightly or wrongly) with the TM.

Simon

Absolutely I am saying that some CC just love boasting about how big and expensive their equipment is and not just TM's but I agree most would have purchased one purely on a business decision.But I have know people seduced in parting with a small fortune just to have the latest bells & whistles TM which has then taken years to to see a real ROI and in quite a few cases had to sell them because they can not pull in enough work to justify the cost.

I take it you are not suggesting though that an operator with a portable or a DF or similar can not earn as not much money as a TM operator ?

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

'Dry' carpet cleaning is another usp and will win the sale with some customers, I have my dry 60 system which is basically Texatherm with different chemicals.

Today I have done 2 stain removals which came to me because of my Chemistry back ground another usp.

Others will have other things they sell on and some just rely on price but this means you are very vulnerable to the next CC who wants to undercut you.

I think anyone who has a TM who doesn't mention it is crazy, it is a strong selling point.

In answer to did I put my prices up , no the increased speed did this for me allowing me to earn more or the same easier.

Cheers

Doug

[Russ Chadd]

How many customers call me up and ask "do you have a van mounted machine"? 1 in 30 probably!
Could i get away with charging a bit more because i own a TM? Nope!, my area is saturated with carpet cleaners and competition is high...
I use a high end porty not because it "offers TM like performance" but because it practical and does exactly what i want it to do and it earns me money. Also i dont need a huge Renault traffic to cart me gear around in or the added headache of purchasing a second vehicle like a car.

I will admit there are times like today when a TM would come in very handy but right now i just cant justify the huge outlay.
Who knows if my work load increases i would definitely consider aTM... but then which one??

[wynne jones]

'Can't afford the huge outlay'

I think that's a euphemism.

But anyway I'm mystified buy guys who buy brand new vans and brand new high end portables with expensive bells and whistles when they could spend less over all on a 2 year old van and a half decent 2nd hand truckmount. When people say TM are for people's egos I think the same if you have a new van when the one you have is perfectly presentable, which depreciates like a brick as soon as you leave the showroom and if you lease it that's even worse.

[peter maybury]

Most of the truckmount owners I know like myself have been in the industry a long time and started of with feeble equipment and because of professional pride, their abilities and equipment have improved. I for instance have von Schrader carpet machines, texatherm, portable extraction machines. rotaries, crb. This is not boasting, these are tools that a professional with a wide customer base needs.
It is not an us and them situation we have the experience of all sides of the industry. Customers are not going to talk to you about truckmounts if you turn up with portables, but when we turn up with our truckmounts people will talk to us about their perception of portables.
In a recent post I mentioned that customers when I turned up with with a von Schrader to clean leather would mention about the last cleaner just did it with towels, they will not say that to me when I just turn up with towels.
You need to see both sides of the coin, most truckmounters regret is that they did not make the move sooner.

Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.com   

[Hilton]

Yeah I can see that,

But I can honestly say I have never turned up in my time with a portable or LM and the customer has said, if only you had a TM.

[Russ Chadd]

So anyway... if i was going to move up a step what would i buy?

ETM or TM?

With all respect i dont think it would be the ETM, it would most probably be a regular TM, ideally diesel and water cooled... that prowler i had was sooo loud for a tiny machine!!

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Look at what your wanting to achieve and buy what you need ie you're selling dry but a host or you're part time from the back of a car then buy a smaller machine to fit your business model you don't need a Titan to clean at 50ft away its overkill so an etm at 100ft is about right.

Shaun

[alan lewis]

The TM that you buy is the one that covers your needs, as has been said most domestic jobs use rarely more than 100ft of hose so big machines can be overkill, Whilst diesel machines might be tempting because of fuel costs, they are also, heavy, a bit smelly and can shake themselves to bits if not really well looked after! So buy a petrol machine and run it on LPG.

I have had my TM for 7 years and its only done 2500hrs, but thats because, as Peter said, i also clean with a portable....when i have'to! and a couple of LM systems aswell which is fine because your still earning without putting hours on the machine, so with regards to the air or water cooled debate, i guess most people who go for water cooled engines do so because of longevity, but an air cooled machine can still be going strong after 10 or more years.....decisions, decisions

Alan

[Simon Gerrard]

Please educate me then.....

Have a day out with Glyn  or Steve Knight, that's not just an education, it's a master class in how a truck mount can help you make serious money in the carpet cleaning business.

Simon

[Hilton]

Please educate me then.....

Have a day out with Glyn  or Steve Knight, that's not just an education, it's a master class in how a truck mount can help you make serious money in the carpet cleaning business.

Simon

I dont need to...

Want I wanted to know is how the markets differ but no one can answer it..

[peter maybury]

If you are a rickshaw driver in india you will not get people jumping into you rickshaw and asking you to take them 100 mile down the road. You will never see the need for buying a car to become a taxi driver.
With a truckmount you are able to do the jobs that a portable does. But you cannot do it the other way around.
Here all you truckmount experts that run portable machines will say how difficult access is for some job etc etc,
I have used my portable machine 2 or 3 times in the last 2 years.
A truckmount will open doors for you and until you make the change you will never imagine how.
I cannot count the number of portables that I have actually own over the years but it is well over 20, with the large areas we used to do I often had 5 top end machines on site and would always have 1 or 2 machine as back up.
Life is just so much easier with a truckmount and peoples perceptions on the machine are different. again if you are going into job with a porty people are not going to say it to you.
You can change your van and everyone will say remember that crappy van you used to drive round in but they said nothing about it when you drove round in it.
I wish that I had listened to some of the more experienced people a long time ago instead of making the same mistakes so many had made before me.

Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.comhttp://

[Simon Gerrard]

Please educate me then.....

Have a day out with Glyn  or Steve Knight, that's not just an education, it's a master class in how a truck mount can help you make serious money in the carpet cleaning business.

Simon

I dont need to...

Want I wanted to know is how the markets differ but no one can answer it..

That’s because the ‘markets’ don’t differ.
There is however a segment of the market (and quite a large one), of people who have had their carpets cleaned before and had a bad experience (and that’s not difficult given some of the horror stories we hear on an alarmingly regular basis) and this time want it done properly and are willing to pay for it.
We all know you can do a perfectly professional job with a portable, the problem is within the portable fraternity there are a huge number of operators that let’s just say do a less than professional job and customers often associate that lack of quality with the ‘little electric machine’ the guy used. This time around the customer is a good deal more cautious and tend to look a lot harder. They then come across companies with very impressive looking machines fitted into vans that even at first glance appear far more professional when compared to the ‘little electric machine’ the guy used last time. They then contact you pre-warmed to what you are offering because (rightly or wrongly) perceive that company to be more professional, more committed and more likely to deliver the quality they want AND are prepared to pay what you ask. Then, if the result is so much better than before (and it so often is) they will stick with you because having tried other cleaners and been dissatisfied come to believe they there is only one choice for future cleans – you.
Marketing wise it is the art of putting people in a position where they can’t get what you do anywhere else. And that is why a Truck Mount is not just a cleaning system, it is a marketing system too and the marketing aspect of it can alone pay for the machine many times over.
None of the above is knocking portable operators, the problem the good ones have is there are so many others similarly equipped who are not as committed to quality as the rest and so the ‘little electric machine’ operators end up being all tarred with the same brush. You can step out of that effect by having a TM so that you are marketing more towards the quality end of the market.

Simon

[john martin]

 An ETM like the Escape could at least bridge the gap between TM and portable . 
 
 An ETM is not a portable mounted in a van  , it should overcome the compromises contained within a portable design , which inturn has its own advantages .

 The Escape has twice the vac performance of the more powerfull portables .
 A high performance pump like a truckmount .
 A pumpout far more powerfull  and capable of keeping up in any situation .
 Features not practical on a portable like chemical metering .

I should reach around the average house with decent performance .  With no stop-start like a portable , no issues like pumpout not keeping up . Running relatively quietly in the van , and protected from the weather . Should be faster in most situations  with a more professional image for the portable user with low running costs or as an alternative for suitable jobs for TM users running a second van .   
 
 

[Hilton]

Please educate me then.....

Have a day out with Glyn  or Steve Knight, that's not just an education, it's a master class in how a truck mount can help you make serious money in the carpet cleaning business.

Simon

I dont need to...

Want I wanted to know is how the markets differ but no one can answer it..

That’s because the ‘markets’ don’t differ.

Simon

Exactly, its taken a long time but we got there eventually....

[Hilton]

If you are a rickshaw driver in india you will not get people jumping into you rickshaw and asking you to take them 100 mile down the road. You will never see the need for buying a car to become a taxi driver.
With a truckmount you are able to do the jobs that a portable does. But you cannot do it the other way around.
Here all you truckmount experts that run portable machines will say how difficult access is for some job etc etc,
I have used my portable machine 2 or 3 times in the last 2 years.
A truckmount will open doors for you and until you make the change you will never imagine how.
I cannot count the number of portables that I have actually own over the years but it is well over 20, with the large areas we used to do I often had 5 top end machines on site and would always have 1 or 2 machine as back up.
Life is just so much easier with a truckmount and peoples perceptions on the machine are different. again if you are going into job with a porty people are not going to say it to you.
You can change your van and everyone will say remember that crappy van you used to drive round in but they said nothing about it when you drove round in it.
I wish that I had listened to some of the more experienced people a long time ago instead of making the same mistakes so many had made before me.

Peter
www.carpetcleanercardiff.comhttp://

I get your point but the rickshaw analogy does not really work, Mrs Public does not get to see a TM operating along side a portable before she makes a decision as to which service to use, she will also make a judgement on cost and her first impression on the carpet cleaner or the company if quoted over the phone.

I dont see why a portable can not do what a TM does either, although you may not want to, top end portables can operate 100ft or more away and some have more than enough power, if that whats floats your boat, to do any job at hand.As for access try working in some areas of central London with a TM its nigh on impossible.

If as a TM operator your costs and therefore your prices are higher then you have to justify that to the prospect who has probably already talked to another company who may be portable operator and who's price will be lower but the 'service' just as or even better than yours.

I am not arguing against the benefits of a TM as an operator,clearly most if not all would like to have one, I am just saying that the 'market' for all forms of carpet cleaning are the same, that is not say that a particular system will not win over another one as obviously the best option for a particular job.

You pays your money and you takes your choice and in the domestic arena and especially in these times Mrs Public don't care what your using so long as its done well.

[fibresafe]

John,

Do you know how the vacs are set up on the ETM?

Thanks
Fibresafe

[john martin]

John,

Do you know how the vacs are set up on the ETM?

Thanks
Fibresafe

In the Escape ?   yes  ,  four motors , two pairs of motors in series  ... running in parallel .

Giving the 'lift ' of series ... and the airflow of parallel .

Which exact electro motor im not 100% sure .   I presume its the  560airwatt  vac , same as they use in the USA version .  which runs about 7amps .

They measure the performance in this video ... i dont fully trust those omega gauges for cfm after the ashbys/airflex thing ... but its an indication anyway .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GVKp1x9Zt8

[fibresafe]

Can't be the 7 amp one, that would mean 14 amps on one power cord and 14 amps plus the 2500psi pump on the other - so well over the 13amps available on each lead (and that's without even adding in auto-empty pump etc.)

They have to be using the next 240 volt Electro motor down which is 5.2 amps - giving maximum 96CFM, 122" water lift.

Wouldn't 2 pairs of those give around 192CFM and 244" water lift?

Great lift but much lower airflow than the top end porties if that's right

[john martin]

Can't be the 7 amp one, that would mean 14 amps on one power cord and 14 amps plus the 2500psi pump on the other - so well over the 13amps available on each lead (and that's without even adding in auto-empty pump etc.)

They have to be using the next 240 volt Electro motor down which is 5.2 amps - giving maximum 96CFM, 122" water lift.

Wouldn't 2 pairs of those give around 192CFM and 244" water lift?

Great lift but much lower airflow than the top end porties if that's right

You only get about 70% of the second motor in series , so it wouldn't even be 244" , probably around  200" if that was the motor they were using ...
I really don't think it is  , although they could combine the two vacs like Ashbys do .

I think the Escape is exceeding the whole 13amp thing , how that stands legally i don't know , but you don't suddenly pop breakers and plug fuses if you exceed 13amps ...
In most modern homes you will be on 20amp circuits / 23-35 in kitchen areas ...
and the plug fuse was there originally to protect the poor wiring in ancient homes  , and itself is capable of exceeding 13amps in the relative short term anyway .

But like i said i just don't know for sure ... if you are on  TMF   ,  PM John LaBarbara and ask him , he responds to Pms ... i might just ask him myself for the hell of it .

The Escape is running Lmb2a motors as far as know , which is the 7amp one , the pump will vary amp wise according to pressure used .
Its running 230v in the states also as most of the newer houses have 230v in the utility room for the washing machine /dryer .... rest of the house is 120v ... a circuit combiner is supplied to use @120v also ... but its a hell of a lot of messing around compared to using it over here .

[Paul Moss]

Yawn.....

[john martin]

Yawn.....

Fecker   

[john martin]

Can't be the 7 amp one, that would mean 14 amps on one power cord and 14 amps plus the 2500psi pump on the other - so well over the 13amps available on each lead (and that's without even adding in auto-empty pump etc.)

They have to be using the next 240 volt Electro motor down which is 5.2 amps - giving maximum 96CFM, 122" water lift.

Wouldn't 2 pairs of those give around 192CFM and 244" water lift?

Great lift but much lower airflow than the top end porties if that's right

OK ... the  ' Parts and accessory '  on this page lists the vac as the  '  C304 230v '
which is an Electro Motor of around 500 airwatts    and   6.4 amps .

http://www.mytee.com/products/escape-etm-electric-truckmount/#.Ug7BtfnQRRR

Its a high lift three stage rated at 144"  
CFM is around 100

So why the high airflow  ....  I believe other 4vac machines like the Goliath has been recorded with more airflow than you'd predict in a twin vac configuration ..
but i don't believe Mytees 325cfm to fully accurate , but u never know .

In any case its the combination of both high lift and high cfm at the same time with sets it apart from either a series of parallel twinvac .

[john martin]

Can't be the 7 amp one, that would mean 14 amps on one power cord and 14 amps plus the 2500psi pump on the other - so well over the 13amps available on each lead (and that's without even adding in auto-empty pump etc.)

They have to be using the next 240 volt Electro motor down which is 5.2 amps - giving maximum 96CFM, 122" water lift.

Wouldn't 2 pairs of those give around 192CFM and 244" water lift?

Great lift but much lower airflow than the top end porties if that's right

And at the risk of boring the Arse off some  ....    i got the following reply from John LaBarbara  ...

"  The distributor in the UK buys the same Escape we sell in the US. 5.7's 115 cfm, 144"

 

[Paul Moss]

Yawn.....

Fecker   

[fibresafe]

Can't be the 7 amp one, that would mean 14 amps on one power cord and 14 amps plus the 2500psi pump on the other - so well over the 13amps available on each lead (and that's without even adding in auto-empty pump etc.)

They have to be using the next 240 volt Electro motor down which is 5.2 amps - giving maximum 96CFM, 122" water lift.

Wouldn't 2 pairs of those give around 192CFM and 244" water lift?

Great lift but much lower airflow than the top end porties if that's right

And at the risk of boring the Arse off some  ....    i got the following reply from John LaBarbara  ...

"  The distributor in the UK buys the same Escape we sell in the US. 5.7's 115 cfm, 144"

 

Can't be the 7 amp one, that would mean 14 amps on one power cord and 14 amps plus the 2500psi pump on the other - so well over the 13amps available on each lead (and that's without even adding in auto-empty pump etc.)

They have to be using the next 240 volt Electro motor down which is 5.2 amps - giving maximum 96CFM, 122" water lift.

Wouldn't 2 pairs of those give around 192CFM and 244" water lift?

Great lift but much lower airflow than the top end porties if that's right

And at the risk of boring the Arse off some  ....    i got the following reply from John LaBarbara  ...

"  The distributor in the UK buys the same Escape we sell in the US. 5.7's 115 cfm, 144"

 

Mytee’s website shows the ETM's motors at 100CFM each:

http://www.mytee.com/products/c304-vacuum-motor/

2 x pairs of those would do around 200 CFM, not 325!! Didn’t that Omega gauge in the Mytee video show Ashby’s machine doing 190CFM when the true CFM's more like 100?

Plus, you’re saying there are 2 x 6.4amp motors AND a 2500psi pump on one power cord? That can't be right!! How much current does a 2500psi pump draw – 8amps minimum I would guess even running idle and probably more? That would make at least 21amps on one 13amp power cord!! Then you’ll need long extension cords to reach the socket in the house which increases current draw even more. Just doesn't add up!!

[john martin]

Can't be the 7 amp one, that would mean 14 amps on one power cord and 14 amps plus the 2500psi pump on the other - so well over the 13amps available on each lead (and that's without even adding in auto-empty pump etc.)

They have to be using the next 240 volt Electro motor down which is 5.2 amps - giving maximum 96CFM, 122" water lift.

Wouldn't 2 pairs of those give around 192CFM and 244" water lift?

Great lift but much lower airflow than the top end porties if that's right

And at the risk of boring the Arse off some  ....    i got the following reply from John LaBarbara  ...

"  The distributor in the UK buys the same Escape we sell in the US. 5.7's 115 cfm, 144"

 

Can't be the 7 amp one, that would mean 14 amps on one power cord and 14 amps plus the 2500psi pump on the other - so well over the 13amps available on each lead (and that's without even adding in auto-empty pump etc.)

They have to be using the next 240 volt Electro motor down which is 5.2 amps - giving maximum 96CFM, 122" water lift.

Wouldn't 2 pairs of those give around 192CFM and 244" water lift?

Great lift but much lower airflow than the top end porties if that's right

And at the risk of boring the Arse off some  ....    i got the following reply from John LaBarbara  ...

"  The distributor in the UK buys the same Escape we sell in the US. 5.7's 115 cfm, 144"

 

Mytee’s website shows the ETM's motors at 100CFM each:

http://www.mytee.com/products/c304-vacuum-motor/

2 x pairs of those would do around 200 CFM, not 325!! Didn’t that Omega gauge in the Mytee video show Ashby’s machine doing 190CFM when the true CFM's more like 100?

Plus, you’re saying there are 2 x 6.4amp motors AND a 2500psi pump on one power cord? That can't be right!! How much current does a 2500psi pump draw – 8amps minimum I would guess even running idle and probably more? That would make at least 21amps on one 13amp power cord!! Then you’ll need long extension cords to reach the socket in the house which increases current draw even more. Just doesn't add up!!

There are a few Omega flowmeter models on the omega site ...  is it the same one Ashbys used ? ...or one more suitable to vacuum conditions ? ...  dont know  

Like i said ...  i am skeptical of the 325cfm ...  But ...  Other quadvac machines i have seen measured seem to give more airflow than a parallel twinvac using the same motors .   The now defunct Velocity tech was around 300 as far as i remember ...
and this 'Goliath '  uses 4 weak a$s two stage 5.7s ...of about 90cfm at most ...so you would expect cfm to be 180 .. but it measures like this .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4T1MxoiF-rY

I got the word from Mytees CEO  ... if woodbridge are messing with the vacs then he doesn't know about  ...  perhaps contact woodbridge fibersafe and let us know what they say