[Pristine Clean]

I was looking at truckmounts on the web and found this article located here

http://www.ecofriendlycarpetcare.com/truckmount-vs-portable-carpet-cleaning-machines.html

I have copied and pasted it below, your opinions please. As I have purchased a new van and I was considering going TM/Prowler but may just upgrade my porty. Cheers

Dave


Truck Mounted Carpet Cleaning Myths

Many people believe that a truck mounted carpet cleaning system is the only way to get their carpets clean, but this is simply untrue. In fact, truck mounted systems are one of the noisiest and most wasteful ways to clean your carpets. Unlike portable systems, which are brought into the home, a truck mounted system is much larger, and sits in front of your house. The machine will be running the whole time your carpet is being cleaned, disturbing your neighbors. Plus, steam cleaning using a truck mounted system uses many gallons of water, leaving your carpets wet and susceptible to mold.

Though many people believe that a truck mounted system will have a higher vacuum power, this is not usually the case. Though it’s important to compare the systems you are considering, in many cases portable units are capable of the same suction power. In fact, truck mounted systems lose a lot of their vacuum power in the hoses between the truck and your carpeting. The vacuum power must be measured at the wand, not at the source, in order to be directly comparable. Power at the wand is directly correlated with the efficiency of carpet cleaning and water recovery, but many times a portable system will be comparable to a truck mounted system in this respect.

Many people are fooled by the price and size of a truck mounted unit, believing that because of this, it must be better than a smaller machine. This is simply not true! Bigger is not always better, and in fact, one study found that truck mounted and portable hot water extraction carpet cleaners effectively remove an average of 97 percent of residue and soil. In a recent technical bulletin, Shaw Industries, the world's largest carpet manufacturer, "recommends the hot water extraction system, which research indicates provides the best capability for cleaning,” whether using a truck mounted or portable system.

Many truck mounted cleaning systems are very high pressure, usually capable of over 1,000 PSI. Many people believe that the higher the PSI, the better the cleaning will be. Actually, this high pressure can actually damage your carpets, shortening their lifespan. A system of 300-400 PSI, available with most portable units, is actually much safer for your carpets, and will be plenty aggressive.

Some companies using truck mounted systems will argue that the heat used by the system, which can reach over 200 degrees, causes the carpet to dry quickly. However, carpet cleaned with such a system can take over a day for the 20-40 gallons of water left in the carpet of a typical home to dry. This water sitting deep within your carpet provides ample opportunity for mold to grow. The rugs and carpets are left wet for far too long. In contrast, other methods, such as low moisture carpet cleaning using a portable unit, are just as effective as a truck mounted unit and use much less water.

Some truck mounted systems can exceed the temperature of water that is safe for your carpets, which can cause damage. Plus, some truck mounted carpet cleaning companies use this additional capacity to heat hot water to dilute the cleaning solution more. The hotter water may mean that the truck-mounted system operator is trying to get by with using as little cleaning solution as possible.

Portable carpet cleaners using a low-moisture method are much better for the environment than these truck-mounted systems, using much less water and contributing less to pollution. Plus, you won’t bother your neighbors with a heavy truck running in your driveway for hours on end. When using a truck mounted system you’ll have to bring the hoses in and leave a door or window open. In short, truck mounted carpet cleaners waste water and contribute to air, water, and noise pollution.


Let Me Cut To The Chase


No matter which carpet cleaning company you choose or the methods they use, they will always claim that their process reigns supreme. That's just the way it is. It's business, it's competition, and to each his own. Either way it's good for the consumer and ultimately benefits the local economy. Do truck mounted systems do a good job? Yes, if it used by a trained professional from a reputable company you should love the results. Are portable systems comparable and will it do the same job just as good or better? Absolutely! You won't believe how fresh and clean your carpets look and smell! The only difference between portables and the competition is that we are the most eco-friendly and healthy choice for your home.

Many carpet cleaners will lead you to believe that because their equipment is so expensive that it must be superior. They also don't tell you that the price of their equipment includes the vehicle that their equipment is mounted in. Not that it really matters, they do a fine job. Although it is a false claim that it is the only way to get spectacular results.

Let me be clear, that most portable systems are not a "quick dry carpet cleaning method" however, it is quicker and more eco-friendly no matter how you slice it. They usually are not "cut-rate" cleaning companies. However, we do agree that you need to stay away from the splash and dash "cut-rate" cleaners that may be lurking around just to make a quick buck.

Most companies would like you to believe (in defense of their truck mount systems) that a quick drying process requires a more aggressive rubbing and scrubbing which could damage your carpets. This is the furthest thing from the truth. Do a simple search and you will quickly realize that this claim is contradicted by virtually every industry leader in the field, the EPA, and double blind scientific studies from numerous respectable institutions. The only place you hear or see this type of claim is on carpet cleaning forums and blogs by truck mounted system business owners.

To see how these companies contradict themselves you will notice that they tout these big fancy and powerful rotary extractor machines. Now look at their own description of this machine where they themselves describe it's aggressive scrubbing action, it doesn't take much to notice the contradiction of claims. Our system is all about hot water extraction with a heavy emphasis on rinsing just the same as truck mounts...except we don't waste the precious resource of water, pollute the environment, take a risk with your health and indoor air quality, or annoy your neighbors with loud noise for hours on end. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Seeing is believing!

[Doctor Carpet (Ret'd)]

Even as a porty user I would quibble with some of the statements in that article.

Stand by for more comments.

Helmets on everybody!!!!!!

[clinton]

Same as roger really

Take cover

[Peter Sweeney]

Ha ha Roger

This forum wowuld'nt be what it is without its quarterly TM v Porty debate. Like you say though, helmets on.

Or you could just kill it by saying horses for courses.

Pete

[Pristine Clean]

What about the "The vacuum power must be measured at the wand"

Would a TM win in power with the 150 feet hose or more compared a a porty hose of say 50 feet if measured at the wand?
When compared to an uptodate porty.

This is not a debate, I am trying to get real facts.

How would you measure the power? Is there a tool for this?

Dave

[Colin Day]

What a load of rubbish..... As a Porty user myself, I fear that whoever wrote that report is probably jealous and a little bit mental

[Peter Sweeney]

Dave

When the weather clears a bit and I'm around Maidstone I'll come to you and show you.

I have a small to medium TM (23hp) and a Ninja 400. You can try both and see for yourself.

Pete

[Joe H]

Obviously written by someone who uses a portable and this is his sales pitch.  A lot of his negatives in his spiel are actually positives - always 2 sides to a story.

I have one of the smaller truckmounts - a Prowler 15hp - and one of the most powerful portables available on the UK market - a 3 vac Scorpion.

I am very happy to use both, and do - horses for courses as Pete said.

One costs twice as much as the other. A couple of years ago I was asking is one really worth twice as much as the other.

All I am going to say is...... you keep in touch with Pete and take him up on his offer and try his Ninja and his TM.
Anyone else near a cleaner with a good portable and a TM I suggest you make contact and ask can you see the difference yourself.
I'm north Cheshire - between Manchester and Liverpool - anyone?

[Mike Halliday]

this sentence in the middle says it all

No matter which carpet cleaning company you choose or the methods they use, they will always claim that their process reigns supreme

in a long winded way his full write up says this.

 like Joe says he uses a portable so is selling what he uses. I think it is an excellent piece of copy-writing and if I used a portable I would print it off and learn it word for word

I have a very philosophical outlook on things like this, he is a carpet cleaner just like us trying to feed his family, he has to say what will bring in work to put food on the table.

[deep-cleaningukltd]

I think the term "trained operator" is the most relevant point here. No matter if TM or porty an untrained operator is of no use to anyone.
Whilst on a training course a while ago I did as some suggest have a go with a TM. The "suck" is phenomenal (spell checked) even compared to a triple vac. The article suggest's the use of 1000psi to clean carpets; how many are daft enough to do that?
I have to say I aspire to a TM eventually, but only for the speed. We will all have seen the end result of a poorly used TM or Porty, the difference being the poorly trained operator useing the machine.

Adi

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys

As soon as I looked at the length of the article I knew it would be full of unscientific bull :

The sad thing from his point of view is as well as a tenuous grip on carpet cleaning, very few customers would read something as long and boring.

As Pete has suggested the best way to see the difference is by spending a few hours with a TM user.

Cheers
Doug

[Mark Lawrence]

What a load of tosh :

He dam well knows he's talking rubbish but like has already been said, just using it for marketing.

The only thing is though he is trying to make out it is scientific and whoever reads it could actually believe the high level of bull

This will damage TM users in his area which is a bit underhand, I feel he should be concentrating on just the benefits of his own system (which is just as effective) - which is surely more ethical.

I would love one of his custys to catch him out by his claims - now that would be funny

Mark

p.s. he promotes using LM. So he's a muck spreader then Wow that really is going to clean better than anything then isnt it :

[Derek_Walker]

Peronally I would not use this negative type of advertising, better to concentrate on the benefits of the system you have. Also I use a combination of different types of machinery to clean carpets depending on conditions, ease of use etc. So to knock any other system would be shooting myself in the foot.
As far as truckmount power is concerned, come on, there is no comparison, truckmount wins hands down.
If you want to buy a truckmount, do not buy it because you want to get a better clean, a porty will give you the same result but take slightly longer.
 Look at the type of work you undertake and see if having a truckmount will benefit your business not just because you aspire to having one.
Having a helper with you will speed up your work rate when using a porty.

[Colin Day]

Spot on Derek, negative promoting comes accross as desparate!

[Ken Wainwright]

Spheroids

The Ken

[carpetworx]

What a load of cods wallup.

[paul moss]

Really not worth commenting on.

[Doctor Carpet (Ret'd)]

Spheroids

The Ken

At a complete tangent Ken's comment reminded me of a lovely story about WS Churchill.

A report was sent into his office and in the margin (obviously thinking the report was worthless) one of his young thrusting secretaries, in trying to be clever, had written "round objects".

When the report came out of Winston's office he had added a further comment below:

"Yes. But who is "Round" and why does he "Object"?     

[Simon@arenaclean]

20 to 40 gallons water left in the carpet, what a muppet! A new portable was right for my business in 2009, it suits my situation and my customer base and was needed, otherwise it would of been a TM.

[nevil]

It reminds me of Mikes comment on heaters or lack of them. The people that claim they are not so great are the ones that don't have them. Another coincidence.

The guy doesn't seem to realize there's  difference between airflow and air pressure/vacuum level. Or understand the relationship between the two.

[Pristine Clean]

Derek, as you said in a previous post,

This is the kind of replies I was looking for.

If you want to buy a truckmount, do not buy it because you want to get a better clean, a porty will give you the same result but take slightly longer.

Yes I know the TMs are much quicker as no filling and emptying. But yes the cleaning result to me is what would be more important.

If the TMs were cheaper I would jump at one. We have plenty of work at the moment. But not to warrant £10,000 or so. Ive just purchased a new van.

Strange how none of the others have said you get the same result in cleaning.

Dave

[Mark Lawrence]

The whole point of a TM is that yes, they do clean quicker. But they also CLEAN better.

If they didnt then people wouldnt be buying them, as it wouldnt be worth it for all the extra money just to make things quicker :

So, in essence TM's clean quicker and better FACT.

Yes there are exceptions where people dont know what they're doing, but they are few and far between.

Mark

[nevil]

Derek, as you said in a previous post,

This is the kind of replies I was looking for.

If you want to buy a truckmount, do not buy it because you want to get a better clean, a porty will give you the same result but take slightly longer.

Yes I know the TMs are much quicker as no filling and emptying. But yes the cleaning result to me is what would be more important.

If the TMs were cheaper I would jump at one. We have plenty of work at the moment. But not to warrant £10,000 or so. Ive just purchased a new van.

Strange how none of the others have said you get the same result in cleaning.

Dave

I wouldn't say that you get the same result. Even that is stretching the truth to suite your argument. I would say that it is possible to achieve the same result.

It's a badly written load of drivel that is full of BS. We are not school teachers who are going to point out which bits are correct. Whoever wrote it good luck to them if they are putting in that extra bit of effort to compete on quality. I started out with a porty and did this too.

[Jim_77]

result
 

[/b]

How do you measure or define a "result" ?

On some carpets it "looks" the same or similar whether you use TM, porty or a bonnet, but we all know the truth

A "result" could be interpreted as a re-booking for next year or a referral, after all the aim is to make money and if you get more money from making that money that's a hell of a result.  All depends on if you please a customer.

And some customers are easier to please than others, we all know that sometimes all we're doing is a stage show, we are actors.

[paul moss]

Jim you are prime to answer this question honestly now.

The resturant carpet that Steve trucked for you. Could you have done it in a reasonable time( if at all atall) with your porty.

And now owning your own truck would you now need help doing it or just go in and knock it out with out even thinking about it.

[robert meldrum]

Forums need a post like this to get people posting and talking about what they can/do achieve with their main cleaning system.

The major reason I never went T M years ago, was the difficulty in parking in towns and the high % of flatted properties we cleaned at the time.

What I could have done, was change my marketing and cut out the difficult jobs, but the phone kept ringing and I kept busy. I might have decided differently had forums been around 20 years ago.

I always find it annoying when someone refers to rotary cleaning as muck spreading. As many know, you can get excellent results with rotaries and the can remove a massive amount of soiling.

[Jim_77]

I've done the job about 5 times before with portable equipment.

The visual result with the TM was noticeably better, so the actual amount of gunk removed must have been phenomenally more.

The first time I did the job was with one ninja (135psi 2x3 stage vac), detergent prespray and plain water rinse.

Subsequent times I used two ninjas paralleled, tried all sorts of presprays like m-power, HD, solvent boosters etc.  Also did the job with ultimate master in tank.  All time with a porty I struggled like hell, even having a helper on a couple of occasions, and ended the job wanting to die.  Visual results varied from fair to OK, judged on improvement before/after (still looked soiled in t-lanes even with TM but it's just damage control on these sorts of jobs, no way you can make it look clean).

Portable job time solo was 6 hours approx, with help 4.5hrs.

I think with the TM we knocked it out in 5 at a leisurely pace, but it hadn't been cleaned for a year at that point, I used to do it every 3 months with the porty.  I think the length of time with the TM was because it was so bad at that point, if it had been done 3 months earlier it probably would have been 3-4 hrs easy.  It was still an uphill struggle for Steve (he did all the wanding, me and his helper did the running about bits) but nowhere near as much of a killer as with the porty.

I'd still take a helper in to do it now with my TM, to prespray/scrub etc.  But I'd do that to get the job time down, I used to have to start at 10pm on a Sunday night and work through to the small hours, so it could be dry for Monday's customers.  With a TM I can start at 8 and they can be back in business that afternoon.

[paul moss]

 Jim Good honest common sence comment.

Robert, there are a few that call it muck spreading but they are usually following others or inexperienced.

There of course is a place for it and once mastered you can get great ( visual) results which in most commercial  situations is all that is wanted.

[Len Gribble]

A bit of muck spreader myself have seen my profits jump through the roof last year up by 200% and the cost of purchasing equipment minimal! Way to go min water no wick back and visual results outstanding what more could you ask for more than profit!

Len

[robert meldrum]

I've watched with interest the reported results from several people who've moved up to T M over the past couple of years.

Jim Neal's post has been pretty encouraging for anyone considering the move. He's given a clear comparison on not only one well respected portable, but two of these doubling up, and still coming no where near the performance of his T M.

Doesn't mean portables can't do a decent job because they can and anyone moving into c/c might be wiser to spend £3k to find out if they're suited to the work, rather than gamble £20k + and hate it.

Len

I was amazed at the results I got with my Tex' and have followed the o/p growth in Canada and America for some time..........although they started over 60 years ago it's only with newer products and better o/p machines recently that rotary cleaning is becoming very popular.

[Len Gribble]

Robert

Tried o/p years ago (think carpetmonster supplied it to some one up north who came south) could not get on with it! Reverted back to the TM too finish job also had a demo of Tex (john) outstanding results sadly didn’t get the contract, as for TM’s you need a lot of parking space am fortunate only got a smallish van

Len

[Jim_77]

One thing that I'd like to add is that the job I was describing above is a real worst case scenario, certainly the most minging job I've ever had to do: a wool axminster in an indian restaurant, probably 7 years old, neglected in its first years of life and then being attempted to salvage after the damage has already been done.

It had been previously shrunk by another cleaner before I took over its care, and even with the TM we still had a couple of small shrinkage issues (shrinkage already pre-qualified with the restaurant owner, who was willing to accept it might happen and get a fitter in to sort it)

In this case, yes a TM definitely cleans better, hands down.  There is no way even if I had doubled the time spent with a porty that the visual results could have been up to the same standard.

But in run of the mill domestic and light commercial work, on average the visual results of a TM don't really go too far over and above those I was used to getting with the porty, it's just a question of time effort and lots more puffing and panting.  The crunch is that towards the end of a hard day's work it really is difficult to discipline yourself to take the same care as you were with the first few wand strokes of the day.  That's the TM/porty difference.

But I have done jobs with the TM that I know wouldn't have ended up looking so good with the porty.  For example, a couple of suites I've done in the last month and a lounge carpet which was absolutely trashed by kids (drinks, food etc).  I've had to walk away from a flat-weave viscose suite after several fruitless hours with a portable, so frustrating but I just couldn't make any visual difference...... did a similar one with the TM & drimaster and it was just like wiping mud off a tiled floor, i think it was mostly the heat that made the difference.

With the porty, a dirty carpet/suite automatically calls for detergent in-tank and I know for a fact that this meant it wasn't left in an ideal condition.  So yeah it can look nice and clean but you're making a sacrifice, even with the best engineered chems there still must be some detriment to leaving detergent behind.

Waffling now, I'll stop

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Apart from cleaning results have you found much time difference on upholstery?

Shaun

[Jim_77]

A little improvement.  For example, a 3-pc 10 cushion, med-heavy soil, fabric like a dralon or polyester velour type used to be at least 3 hours with a porty, often best part of 4.  The time is due to the extensive prep work, scrub with minitex, and then towelling off afterwards.  I can get those down to about 2.5 hrs now.

A flat weave or any velour fabric with only light soiling I can do in just under 2 now, prob 90 mins but I tend not to rush due to the money charged

But I'm still not 100% up to speed on upholstery I don't think.  I reckon that's because I haven't got the confidence yet to back off the pre-spray/agitate/dwell and let the machine do the work.  I still spend an hour or so prepping before firing up the TM.

I've had to send my drimaster back because it sprang a leak, I only used it on about 6 upholstery jobs before it started playing up.  So when I get that back I think I'll start to have a little experiment, just a bit of prespray and a bit of a scrub on the bad bits and then the brute force approach, see how I go

[paul moss]

Jim I was the same but I can knock an average suite out in an hour and a half now. A bad one is 2 to 2 and half hours. I still find the old dry master better on chenille type flock as the new one is a bit too powerfull ( especially if the fabric is loose).
The new drimasters need cleaning out on a more regular basis and they are a pain to open and put back together. Your leak would have just been the inner nut.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

The new drimasters aren't made as well, I still love my cfr it suits me, cleaning times are about 2 hours for a suite +/- I think it can depend on set up also as if you have a decent walk from the van and you are back and forth for differnt things it adds up.

Personally on upholstery drying doesn't make any difference with a TM.

Shaun

[Jim_77]

I must admit I am a bit dubious about the quality of the tool.  The loss of airflow is quite big, especially in the hide-a-hose.

What I've found with it is that you have to have a good amount of solution flow, otherwise you end up with cold solution.  This means you have to adapt your style a bit, but I was getting on OK with it.  Twice as much water as with a normal hand tool though

Don't care where/which nut was leaking, almost brand new tool, goes back to where it came from and they can send me a new one for that money

Yes they are a pain to take apart... i can't find a friggin allen key to fit the bolts!!  Even put an imperial set on my santa list but none of them fit, I thought that would solve it but no.  The inside where you can see in the clear window is all gunked up with fluff.

I also don't like the way it whistles like thomas the bloody tank engine, really pierces the ear drums!

[Paul_Ashworth]

Jim,
Have you tried the CFR tool ?

Paul

[Derek_Walker]

Dave, Pristine Clean,  as mentioned in my post depending on type of work you have, if you do alot of commercial greasy soil laden carpets then a truckmount will certainly outperform a porty in terms of cleaning ability and speed. If you are mainly domestic then your cleaning results should be about the same.

[paul moss]

Mine used to whistle loud too. I think it has something to do with the holes in the view window( the ones that keep fluffing up) Once cleared it stopped whistling. I find in the best uph tool out of them all and the most powerfull.
B & Q do a multi hex alyn key type for a bout 6 quid that fits it.
I find also that you have to get the flow right towards your truck mount, i the early days of using it i found it was getting too hot ( too much flow),just like all the othr tools its just a case of getting used to it.

Like all good uph tools a bit pricey though.

[Jim_77]

Paul A - no, never tried the CFR, will definitely be considering it in the future though.

Paul M - got a link to that allen key set?!  Would be very useful!  cheers

[paul moss]

I bought the first one and the 3rd one. Think its the first one that fits the hand tool

http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?isSearch=true&fh_search=allen+key&x=22&y=12

[paul moss]

Cfr is a good hand tool, but very awkward to use at first. It uses less water because it has a trigger system.
 I find the dri master is better but like everything each to their own.

[Jim_77]

cheers paul, will give them a try

[paul moss]

Jim it may be the 4th one
Its hard to tell on the photos. I went in the shop to get them.
If you wait till tomorrow i will check it for you 100%

[Jim_77]

ok cheers

[David Ware]

In reply to the original question it sounds like Ian Harper.?
David

[paul moss]

Jim, I can confirm it this one.
http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?action=detail&fh_secondid=9676858&fh_view_size=10&fh_location=%2f%2fcatalog01%2fen_GB&fh_search=allen+key&fh_eds=%c3%9f&fh_refview=search&ts=1263236386331&isSearch=true

[Jim_77]

brilliant, cheers paul I'll drop by and pick one up

[robert meldrum]

David

Not Ian Harper unless he's moved to the U S