[shaun_pearson]

just a poll to see how many agree or disagree with the action taken by the moderators

[Ivar_Haglund]

why

[strakercleaning]

I, for one, know how it feels to be treated as a leper  
Banning someone for having a different point of view is WRONG. If that person has been insulting or swearing then it is not so wrong. I have not seen all of jasonb's posts but have deemed him to be someone who knows what they are talking about (to a degree) and sits back to watch the reactions once he has lit a fuse.
Banning him will only send him underground......... popping back up under a different guise. ( Take it from me......i know   )
He says what many of us think in the back of our minds but are afraid to say out loud................ i applaud him for that alone

[Mark Roberts]

Totally agree with Chris on this one. "Banning someone for having a different point of view is WRONG."

Most forums I go go to have a User Agreement / Terms of Service page where you agree to stick to the rules, before you are allowed to post.

I would be interested to know what rules he has broken, where are these rules and how do we know when someone has over-stepped them.

Mark

[Harry]

Yes, I would like to see the "rules" and hear the moderator's reasons for this action.

If the point of the forum is to create traffic, interest and discussion, Jason should get a medal.  If that is not the point of having a forum,  then what is the point ?

This in the birthplace of free speech, is a surprise !

[Jasonc]

I think his only crime was not adding a smiley here and there so that the likes of [edited by admin] could enjoy the fun too and not get up their own arse about it.

[strakercleaning]

Jason. Putting a smiley on the end makes no difference if you are targeted..........take it from a man that knows

[Phil Marlor]

Dose not bother me if he is on here or not, now I am wise to him.

Like you say what he adds in his comments is there to wind people up and cause reaction.

Just dont know how I fell for it!

Phil

[lee_gundry]

get him back on.

Lee G

[strakercleaning]

..............& Judy ............no good without Punch  :

[Derek]

Chris

I am sorry but I have to totally disagree with you and others who are prepared to tolerate this diatribe... one rotten apple will eventually spoil the whole barrel.

I would have to consider whether I personally wanted to participate in this or any other forum if it continued.... you may say 'good' ...I can live with that... I have my values

Derek

[strakercleaning]

Derek, Some of the stuff was pure IRONY ( you could put it in a wheelchair and call it Chief) the remainder was tongue in cheek.
I was on the receiving end on one occasion and almost reacted with my usual CHARM , but waited and watched and REALISED
Im sure you would feel better face to face with jasonb with an AUTOMAG and a hopper full

[Len Gribble]

The way I see it, was JansonB ask by the forum moderators to tone down his obnoxious antics if yes and he would not abide they have the right to ban him, on the other hand if they did not I would not be too happy with there decision.

Before I vote I would like to know the answer to my above question was he asked YES or NO.

Yes reading his posts he did have some valid points and some good ideas from a marketing point of view, but did not think he was very ethical if this is the way he wants to run his business so be it, he should keep his own council and not try to convert

I saw an earlier post by him implying he has the means to xxxx this forum, a dummy out of a pram methinks! Very said person!

Harry free speech is tolerated but never a right, over step the mark it’s taken away!

Jasonc I and would hope most on this forum are into peer’s credibility please fill in you profile

Chris your case was totally different the threads went in to banter and only one complained.

Len

[strakercleaning]

Len " Henry Kissinger " Gribble.
APPARENTLY
I have not seen all posts from jasonb but what i did see was so tongue in cheek ............. i missed all the fuss.
He wouldnt have been allowed to post more than once at Pros

[Jasonc]

Yes reading his posts he did have some valid points and some good ideas from a marketing point of view, but did not think he was very ethical if this is the way he wants to run his business so be it, he should keep his own council and not try to convert

They way I see it is that he wasn't trying to convert anyone.

[Jasonc]

I saw an earlier post by him implying he has the means to xxxx this forum, a dummy out of a pram methinks! Very said person!

Yes I saw that too, however I think the actual words were "in general it's not a good idea to ban people who have the capability of deleting the whole forum if they so wished." I think he was referring to the general security issues that Yabb has and not actually making any sort of threat

[Harry]

Derek, with respect, it is your show and your house and you have every right to make the rules and if we don't like them we can leave.  All I can tell you is, that is exactly what happened to several Forums in North America.  They no longer exist, end of discussion.

Many Forums have stated rules which usually have to do with offensive language, personal attacks, selling or promotional posts etc. Some posted rules would be nice.

In debating as in parliment there are many very effective and acceptable ways to make a point and promote thinking and promote different ways of looking at things.
Humour, using illustrations and sarcasm, come to mind.
A chap called Shakespeare is an example.

You were given a gift of massive interest, over a quarter of total "views" all in a fortnight, and you tossed it out....
too bad.  I think your viewers, voted in spades.....

All these issues that were raised need discussing and exactly how we come to do so, is less important than, that we do so, IMO.
 
I for one, hope you will re-consider.

Len, I cannot disagree more strenously.  "Free speech" is, TOLERATED Maybe in Uganda or Egypt.  
How many men, fought and died for "freedom of speech"?  If it is not a "right" then presumably you feel it is unnatural for us to expect to have a free press or freedom of religion and thought.  It is both a right and a precious gift, ask anyone who has lived under a dictatorship.
Who exactly do you feel does have that right to express themselves freely  if not you and I ?
The "Dear Leader" of North Korea, perhaps.

[Len Gribble]

Chris you said it

Jasonc

Haven’t you been a busy boy you must have sat at the computer all day and read his posting/threads before being deleted, a very sad life you have.

What spring to mind tax evasion application of protector etc, he implied he has the means, isn’t that some type of threat?

Harry yes some American forums may have folded but we are not American brash and bold and with there intelligence! End of discussion!  Also back up one moment we all live under some form of dictatorship, but luckily we are not under the gun here yet!

I’m into credibility you give it by you profile.

Len

[Jasonc]

Jasonc

Haven’t you been a busy boy you must have sat at the computer all day and read his posting/threads before being deleted, a very sad life you have.

Not sad at all really, as I am able to read a topic posting in under 30 seconds on average. If it takes you all day to achieve it then it's not my problem is it?

[Derek]

Harry

I am merely a moderator on this site with limited capabilities...the utimate banning of an individual is up to the Site Administrator.

I have been away for a week and I certainly do not intend trawling all the posts deleting every post I find offensive... I would hope that common sense will prevail and such posts will be ignored for the irritation they cause.  
Sadly the forum has degenerated into more personal attacks and away from the real issues ....its a great pity there isn't a facility on forums that allows us to blot out the posts made by people we don't particularly want to read...this would solve the 'freedom of speech' issue as well.

Derek

[strakercleaning]

Maybe a facility to block answers from a person, as on msn, would be the way to go.
Anyone who wanted to ignore a certain individual could do so in one swift move.
Lets hope admin have the power.

[Dynafoam]

Chris,

This would be a usefull, but as far as I know, the software does not have this facility.

However if the insults could be blanked out by individual members, they would still exist.

John.

[Jasonc]

Chris,

This would be a usefull, but as far as I know, the software does not have this facility.

However if the insults could be blanked out by individual members, they would still exist.

John.

Apparently JasonB called someone a "plantpot." I am sure that we need a lengthy discussion about forum techicalities and politics to make sure that this heinous crime does not happen again. The plantpot.

[Dynafoam]

Chris

I am sorry but I have to totally disagree with you and others who are prepared to tolerate this diatribe... one rotten apple will eventually spoil the whole barrel.

I would have to consider whether I personally wanted to participate in this or any other forum if it continued.... you may say 'good' ...I can live with that... I have my values

Derek

Derek,

You are not alone in having values and I would like to go on record that I wholeheartedly support your comments.

For members to dissagree  is one thing but when one member persistantly insults other members, that is an entirely different matter.

John.

[Jasonc]

Derek,

You are not alone in having values and I would like to go on record that I wholeheartedly support your comments.

For members to dissagree  is one thing but when one member persistantly insults other members, that is an entirely different matter.

John.

He didn't insult you, he just said you didn't know what you were talking about. You must get that everyday surely?

[strakercleaning]

Seem these last few posts came around the time i was asked by PM, to cease a subject on another forum.
If anyone saw the thread by mistake and was offended then i APOLOGISE.
Paintball is such a political hot potato :
I wonder who i have annoyed this time?
chriss

[Dynafoam]

Chris,

There was nothing in the thread that was in any was offensive, and you have no need to apologise to anyone.

Nor were you asked by any moderator to stop the thread was this another member?

John.

[Harry]

Derek, "a mere moderator", perhaps but a difficult and thankless job. I don't envy you.
However, one more point on your contention:

"one rotten apple will eventually spoil the whole barrel."

I also don't buy this. I would give virtually all carpet cleaners, who are, after all businessmen and the ones who frequent Forums, in particular, much more credit.

I believe that Forums like this can do a world of good by taking on every issue, head on.  But now by banning jaasonb, the members are now no longer debating Industry issues but are instead discussing nuances of word meanings and what constitutes an insult, what is fair or acceptable and what is not, what determines if a man has "values" or not.  
Which is the greater insult, to be called a "plantpot", (a word I'm unfamiliar with as an insult) or to be called a person "without values" for defending freedom of expression. This is just an example, I have the greatest of respect for both the Boltons, and do not in any way feel insulted.  I do believe that the best way to deal with an ignorant, cheeky, pompous, wrong or unwise poster, is to give him enough rope and he'll surely hang himself.  "You can't fool all of the people all of the time."  I've seen it so many times before, give the crowd more credit.

ps, Some US Forums have "banned words" that when used on a post cause that post not to appear on the Board.

[mickeyfatatetomuch]

I heard about a cleaning forum that was set up and is not moderated

Why dont these people go to that site and have there fun?

[Ian Gourlay]

Maybe Im dumb but i come on to these forums everyday.

Some of you appear to know what is really going on the rest of us have to guess,

Personaly i find them very helpful and I think it is sad when egos get in the way.

I am a tolerant man and did vote that Jason should not have been banned.

However there was one particuliar thread that in my opininion justified a possible ban for a period of time.

However I respect the decisions of those that own the site and the moderator as they have to do the hard work.

And Yes standards did fall but I did learn from Jason

[Fox]

FGS (for God's sake) lighten up you lot!  

Yes for many Jasonb's post may have pressed the wrong buttons but come on so do many others throughout the forum.

As for him lowering the tone of professionalism within this sector don't you think anyone outside of cc would read his comments as we do?  People aren't as naive as you think they are.  If they have been following the forum for professional reasons they will know that JB is not the norm.

Let JB voice what he wants (makes good entertainment and as already said keeps hits & posts to good levels) isn't it his sort of posting that makes a good argument about how to 'do it properly'?  

Wind up or not - lessons learnt, at the end of the day we don't have to agree (which, with his methods, I for one don't).

Fox

[strakercleaning]

JB,
If my thread contained nothing remotely offensive...... why was i sent a PM telling me that a watch would be in place and it may be pulled/stopped.
On this forum people are allowed to continue for quite some time before they are pulled. I am told that my thread is distracting..........THE IDEA OF IT
"It must not become a score sheet"........... ONE other person added his score :. Talk about give me an EARLY warning. another forum should go into the radar business with efficiency like that.
I have removed the 'offending' posts of mine, along with myself from the forum.
I will frequent a forum where such narrow minded rules are not enforced on the whim of one person when it suits.
AT LEAST jasonb KNOWS WHY HE WAS PULLED UP.

[The Great One]

Hi Guys

Banning jasonb because he has different opinions than the rest of us is in my opinion an abuse of power.

So he is different, big deal.
So he speaks up, big deal

Way off the scope here, or maybe because he was popular....hmmm

Regards

Martin

[Mike Halliday]

How about everyone who posts has to regester with their full name, company name, address & telephone number.

do you think we'd get some many insulting, sarcy posts if we new everyones full details

its easy to be a git if your anonomous

Mike

[Mike Halliday]

thought of some thing else

the best way to combat unwanted post is to lose them in a sea of good, interesting posts. if all we have to read is jasons rantings then we can't  moan.

everyone should post at least 2 topics a day each!!

Mike

[strakercleaning]

Now THAT is a good idea.  

[Mike Halliday]

Go on then Chris you can start, Whats your 2 post for today going to be about?

Mike

[strakercleaning]

First was Paintball (DISTRACTING) thread and second is in the making :-/

[strakercleaning]

Second one is now completed  

[Jim_Lynch]

From another outsider's perspective...

I have to agree with Harry, Chris and others that banning someone simply because you disagree with their views is narrow minded censorship.

Harry is correct that several US boards in the past have either died or become moribund because of narrow "carpet cleaning only" restrictions. Look at Cleanfax, which used to be the most active board about six years ago, but because any post going the least bit outside of carpet cleaning technical matters was deleted, that board all but died. It is only in recent times under the leadership of Jeff Cross that it has livened up a bit.
Even here, I posted last year about the Rugby World Cup which I thought was topical...was deleted as it was not related to carpet cleaning. Thank goodness that admin has relented a bit...
I think it was Mari...oops Ken W. that pointed out very wisely that these forums are not about carpet cleaning, but carpet cleaners...that is, not just the technical things that we do day in day out, but our lives in total...what interests us as a group of people . That is, all the things that we do...not just cleaning carpets.
So, when we thrash you in the next Test cricket series, as expected, why can't I come here and gloat without being censored  
But, let's forget the Rugby...although we did beat you down here last month ..
Jason was just stirring...and I'm sure was a regular poster just winding you up...these guys are everywhere...(are you reading Terry  )...don't throw the baby out with the bathwater...just roll with the punches...

And....the most important thing.....get a sense of humour...life is too short....realise when the p is being taken

Len, I am not "American, brash and bold with their intelligence"...neither is Harry...

Jim

[Mark Betts]

Jim

You hit the nail on the head with your comment "get a sense of humour".

We are only carpet ckeaners when all said and done not flipin brain surgeons.

And I think Jason had some very good suggestions amongst all the rubbish he spurted ( and yes I do think he was doing this to wind people up)

Bring him abck and lets have a bloody gigggle again !"

Mark

[gwrightson]

Correct me if i am wrong,
but i believe i was the first to react and reply to jasons
very first post on here,what i read at the time was
a little concerning, although deep down i really thought he was just a wind up merchant, and after the initial banter between us, i did feel he was getting personnel in his comments to certain members, non might i add that where aimed at me , did i take seriously
having said this , i did find his tactics in getting reactions
were spot on ,and "lots did react" good i think!!
what i do wonder though ,Did i initially provoke him, or was it his intention all along to be controversial,
i  wonder ?
the conclusion.  let him stay, perhaps he can be of use
in the future, even though some of his tactics are frowed upon, but surly we all know his methods and
ideas to avoid, and the ones to grasp
common sense i would say,
Jason just dont get to personal , when sombody questions you !!!!
 geoff

[nick.solution]

Hi Guys

It would seem to me the best way to treat people like Jason is to simply ignore them If none of us had replied he would not have been able to continue with as much rubbish as he did and waste so much time. Whether or not his marketting was any good is debatable, certainly the tactics he employed with his customers were highly questionable if not illegal. a great topic to see on a professional forum ( I think not)

Derek I think your actions were justified and correct

Best regards Nick

[dan_1]

regards the tax avoidance we have all dun jobs cash. banning jason just make the forum for a clicky gang

[strakercleaning]

Exactly what i meant by ' saying what we think but are afraid to say out loud '

[Forum Admin]

Just so everyone is aware, it was my decision to remove jasonb from the forum following a number of complaints just before I went on holiday. He was warned about the tone of his posts but I understand that he continued to post messages that were not just unprofessional, but offensive - these have now been removed and I suspect some of you may be commenting without having seen all his posts.
I'm not back in the UK until Sunday but will look at his posts and review the situation then.
Regards
Mike Boxall - Forum Admin

[cleanmac]

Well Mike, sofar it is 19 for and 50 against removing JasonB.

[Len Gribble]

Cleanmac

Would they have voted this way if JasonB were an employee of theirs? Perhaps another poll would you employ JasonB to expand your business? that would be interesting.

Len

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Guys,

In the 1700's the majority of people thought the earth was flat!

Cheers,

Doug

[Derek]

Hi Guys

I think this topic has just about run it's course....

Jason had a right to his opinion, I believe what upset people was the tone and manner in which he put over his points.

Jason has some good marketing ideas and I am sure (as someone has already said) if he conformed to a code of practice then he would have an even more successful and lucrative business than he believes he has.

Derek

[Shorty]

I'm not a brash North American.

Nor am I a stoic Brit;

I am a proud Aussie and a citizen of the world.

Having said that, I also have the greatest respect for the people that run this forum, and also the genuine posters.

Rather than get into a nasty, personal, debate about what so & so did, and the way he/she may have gone about it, I find it so much easier, that if I do not like the contents of a particular person's post, I make a decision not to read any further post's from that person.

None of us are without fault.

We all have our own individual way of putting a point across.

Some may get highly offended, whilst others will get a giggle out of it.

I like freedom of speech.

Foul language, and vile personnal attacks, is not acceptable, I like to think that all of us are Gentlemen.

With the exception of the Ladies that post here, naturally.

Draconian measures, such as what appears to have happened, are a serious blight on freedom of speech.

This is only my opinion, and I trust that common sense will prevail when the Forum Administrator returns.

Life is too short to be so easily upset by words on a computer screen.  Crikey, listen to the filth on the telly

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even the dull and the ignorant like yours truly    

Cheers, the short, round, mound of sound, from up top, down under, with a comment on anything & everything.

Shorty.

[cleanmac]

Hi Doug

Are you implying that one can have the "wrong" opinion on a subjective matter?My East German relatives would be thrilled to bits if this is the case,they can,t wait to return to the "good old days".

Jason being offensive is an opinion and not a fact.

David

[cleanmac]

Hi Len

I would happily employ Jason and show him you can make money and be ethical in the process.

David

[Len Gribble]

David

The way I read it, he was a one way street his way or no way, hope you have a deep training budget if you employ him.

Shorty define Draconian measures now Mike has returned and replied that he was warned what is your stance now?

Len

[poleman]

it seems bad to ban someone, they did it on the window cleaning side of things BUT that was Because of water fed pole suppliers and the politics that come with it

Andy
smart cleaning
window cleaning at it best

[Dynafoam]

David,

Jason being offensive is an opinion and not a fact.

If you think that, then you clearly did not read all his posts when anyone opposed his views he customarilly responded with a personal insult - FACT.

John.

[Shorty]

G'day Len, I say Draconian because I feel that it was extremely harsh to ban someone from a forum because of their opinion.

In my opinion, I feel it would have been a better situation to have edited this persons posts, rather than a ban.

I also realise that no-one has the resources to monitor all posts 24/7, nor should they have to. Maybe a public warning on the forum, advising particular posters that they are going past the point of decency, and of the consequences if they continue on that tack.

I must admit that I have not read his posts, so I cannot rightfully comment on the attitude of the ones in question.

I would not teach my Granny how to suck eggs, nor would I attempt to tell the Forum Administrator how to do his job.

As such, as I have stated earlier, this is only my opinion.

I'm not saying whatever Jason said is right nor wrong,
but I do feel that anyone should be allowed to state their opinion.

Imagine if we all had the same ideas, did the same thing, worked to the same ideals, we could all be communists.  

Individuals must have the right of freedom of speech, even if we all do not agree with what they say.
I know a lot will not agree with what I say, but that's okay.
I certainly won't hate anyone for not ageeing with what I say.

That again is freedom of speech, and I would appreciate that, not get upset by it.

I'm to old for that now.

Cheers,

Shorty.

[Shorty]

David,


If you think that, then you clearly did not read all his posts when anyone opposed his views he customarilly responded with a personal insult - FACT.

John.

Just read this after I posted my last bit.

If that is the case, and I don't doubt John, then this Jason does not sound like a Gentleman worthy of being on this forum.

Cheers,

Shorty.

[poleman]

WELL he has gone so can not do anything about.

Andy

[Jasonc]

David,


If you think that, then you clearly did not read all his posts when anyone opposed his views he customarilly responded with a personal insult - FACT.

John.

That's odd because as a keen follower of JasonB's posts I didn't really spot a situation where he insulted someone without being insulted first. But then expecting you to follow a simple line of dicussion was maybe a litte too much to expect.

[Jasonc]

Just so everyone is aware, it was my decision to remove jasonb from the forum following a number of complaints just before I went on holiday. He was warned about the tone of his posts but I understand that he continued to post messages that were not just unprofessional, but offensive - these have now been removed and I suspect some of you may be commenting without having seen all his posts.

In fact YOU are commenting without seeing them aren't you? Even if you did see them you read them out of context, I only saw him insult people who had already insulted him, and I have read all his posts.

I know it can be hard work moderating a forum, maybe you should get someone in who knows what they are doing.

Just a thought.

[Dave_Lee]

Jason B, Jason C or Jason anything else,
Get off this forum whoever you are next as you are but one is obvious. Of course youlle deny it, you are just a wind up - nice one, but its all just a bit more than boring now. Youve had your laugh, well done . Now please p--s off.
Regards,
Dave.

[Jasonc]

Jason B, Jason C or Jason anything else,
Get off this forum whoever you are next as you are but one is obvious. Of course youlle deny it, you are just a wind up - nice one, but its all just a bit more than boring now. Youve had your laugh, well done . Now please p--s off.
Regards,
Dave.

David darling, just because I stood you up again there is no need to air our dirty washing in public once more.
Get over it, Ben is far better in bed than you are and I suggest you pay a visit to the clinic.


P.S. don't presume to tell me which forums I can and cannot post on, do you OWN the internet or something. Get a grip weirdo.


*disclaimer: JasonC reacts AFTER getting insulted. Similar to JasonB actually.

[Ivar_Haglund]

Get all the little Bundist to fall in line

I guess the English are of not sence of humor


IVAR

[Dave_Lee]

JasonC,
If I had known you bat for the other side, I wouldnt have bothered to address you - as for your vivid imagination - are you deliberatly setting yourself up to seem  a fool, if so well done, youve succeeded.
(Last response to this plonker)
Ivar,
Those that know me know of my great sense of humour.
However have you heard of the saying, " I dont suffer fools." I know Im not the only one whose suffered this one long enough - he can now rattle on regarless.
Dave.

[cleanmac]

We have a Hacker on this forum,he has found out for fact which posts I have read!!