[Tosh]

This isn't hard cheese; I'm a lucky bloke; I have a good life and have a lot to be thankful for; and I do understand that when someone reaches a milestone, such as £200 in-a-day for the first time they're pretty chuffed, don't want to tell their mates, so come on here and tell us.

I've probably done similar, but it can get a bit silly and out-of-hand.

Not only that, I don't think it's good for our trade, advertising earnings that could be true - or false - to all and sundry.

There's many new arrivals to the UK who've got a good grasp of the English language, use the internet, keen to make money and would work just as hard, if not harder and be just as professional; for much less than what some of you are charging.

So I reckon posting earnings - matter-of-factly - should be discouraged on the forum.

Just my thoughts; though I do like the 'how much should I charge for this', or 'I've just hit a new milestone' post.

[AuRavelling79]

Probably wise, Tosh. I consider myself chastised.

[telboy]

Good advice Tosh

[mick hay]

Here here, well said that man!!

[pingu]

So it is our responsibility to 'quosh' threads when they get to this point of mine is bigger than yours....Like Tosh says we are all to some degree guilty (yes myself included)...

Dave.

[matt]

i love em i do

allways good for a laugh

im working all my jobs around so i can get all the best paid jobs done in 1 day, it'll be end of may i think, my only fall down is i like to be home for my daughters bed time at 7.30 - 45
But i think if i start my comercial at 4.30 and then go and do my better paid doemstic, then off to do some more commercail after 5, i should have a bumper day i worked it out and its a nice little number

[[GQC] Tim]

And another one was necessary? lol 

[frames to panes]

Matt, i've checked and i'm pretty sure it's raining that day!

[matt]

Matt, i've checked and i'm pretty sure it's raining that day!

looks likea  day off then the idea was good

[Paul Coleman]

This isn't hard cheese; I'm a lucky bloke; I have a good life and have a lot to be thankful for; and I do understand that when someone reaches a milestone, such as £200 in-a-day for the first time they're pretty chuffed, don't want to tell their mates, so come on here and tell us.

I've probably done similar, but it can get a bit silly and out-of-hand.

Not only that, I don't think it's good for our trade, advertising earnings that could be true - or false - to all and sundry.

There's many new arrivals to the UK who've got a good grasp of the English language, use the internet, keen to make money and would work just as hard, if not harder and be just as professional; for much less than what some of you are charging.

So I reckon posting earnings - matter-of-factly - should be discouraged on the forum.

Just my thoughts; though I do like the 'how much should I charge for this', or 'I've just hit a new milestone' post.

I suppose you're right really Tosh.  I know I have done it occasionally myself but I question whether I should.  I'm not a bragger though.  I just do it sometimes to encourage people.  Maybe I should restrict it to email.

[pjulk]

I totally agree with tosh.

it not good for us window cleaners saying you can do x amount a day.

You never know who is reading the posts on the forum.

Paul

[dai]

OK Tosh, I'm guilty too. I did point out that when I reached the £200 milestone I worked my nuts off for 11 hours.
I  think the earnings are secondary, first you have to get the work, and then the price.
 We could all be on £250 a day if we had the right work. A nice office block with 250 windows a metre square, on the ground and first floor. We could all knock that off in a day WFP.
A guy could go out tomorrow and buy a brand new van, with the latest hot water system and all the gubbins.
NOT WORTH A LIGHT WITHOUT THE WORK THOUGH.  Dai

[Adam Boss]

My post which has been removed was a joke, jest a bit of fun, if you think it was genuine then you need to get a sense of humour and fast.
Get a grip guys, when you get posts where guys are bullied of the forum and it's allowed to go on for page after page and then a bit of fun gets removed then the mods need to look at there position cos they are getting it all wrong.

enough said

Adam

[Dale Smith]

I totally agree with Tosh.... which is why I never bother posting on these topics, or post again on a topic which becomes like that.
DJW's topic was a good one which went out of control, with people losing it with eachother.....why does it get to that?  
Banter is good   ,but some peeps get nasty...  

[m b shaw]

tosh,that really needed saying it s not just the i r that could be reading but clients as well and it comes across badly.people don t like to think somones boasting how much they can earn just cleaning windows.also regarding i r you really don t want to encourage an investigation into your buisness i know from experience the stress and
 time involved.i was squeaky clean but still had over a year of worry and sleepless nights.p s did you know you can take out a sort of insurance with your accountant against this about 110 pounds if thats all i had in the world thats what i would spend it on.
           cheers mick

[Tosh]

Crickey, it's rare that people agree with me!

However the people that're feeling guilty about doing it weren't the ones I was thinking of!  

There's nothing wrong with posting a price for a job, or earnings, if there's a reason for doing so (even when you hit a new target); I just get the feeling that some do it to show off (or 'troll' to wind Matt up ); and then it escalates to a new higher level; it'll not be long before sole traders are posting that they turn-over £1000 per day if it's not curtailed.

And if anyone's earning £1000 per day; good on you!  Don't tell me if you're doing it, unless you're prepared to tell me how; in great detail!

It's one of those situations when you can't come up with a set of rules; just some common sense.  

I'd say unless there's a valid reason for posting earnings - for the benifit of other fellow forum members - don't do it.

Price per job posts; with photos; aren't a problem and are normally interesting.

I think it's probably best, in my humble opinion, to keep earnings to yourself unless there's a valid reason for posting them.

[Wayne Thomas]

I mentioned that this cleaning forum is full of muppets bragging earnings on a public forum. Give it a few years and window cleaners will be wondering why they find it harder to obtain new work at decent prices.....because they entice new wanna be millionaires for doing sod all work at window cleaning who are cleaning for peanuts forcing down the costs of new cleans. We'll end up like council workers who will be earning what they earn't 15 years ago. It's taking a step backwards muppets.

[Moderator David@stives]

Tosh

My Porsche mechanic charges me £120 an hour

My local Garage charges £42 + vat an hour.

Most builders now want £200 - £300 a day.

I think we forget how much other trades are making, I have a block layer friend who regularly earns over £1000 a week.

All the tradesmen contracted to work on terminal 3 are on a minimum of £68'000 + overtime.

Sometimes i feel like jacking it all in and go and get a job i enjoy.

I remember once someone saying you are not rich until you find a job you love doing.

Dave

p.s I can do over £1000 in a day   

[Tosh]

Tosh

My Porsche mechanic charges me £120 an hour

My local Garage charges £42 + vat an hour.

Most builders now want £200 - £300 a day.

Sigh!

How does this compare with window cleaning?

Your porche mechanic; what's his overheads?

Your local garage; what's his overheads?

Builders; What's their overheads?  Does he have repeat buisness?  I know a builder at Wor Lasses running club and although he seems to do okay, I know there's times he struggles because he hasn't got any work.  He's just been stopped half-way through a 'barn conversion' cos the couple he was working for have split up; and he's nothing in the pipeline.

I've a Corgi registered plumber whose just cancelled me (he's a Christian; so an honest sort) because his wife has just given birth to twins and he can't afford the £14.00 I was charging them to clean their windows!

Even if you have a brand new van and a top of the range WFP system; I doubt you'd be forking out more than £400 per month; tops!

Dave, you're comparing apples with elephants!

[m b shaw]

tosh, i ll agree with you again and say this, over the years i ve heard people in different trades say i earn this and i earn that but i bet they don t go online and tell the whole world.also when i clean one of these so called high earners how come there at home 10 a m mon morning and then they say can i pay
you friday    cheers mick

[L.J.Thorpe]

tosh, i ll agree with you again and say this, over the years i ve heard people in different trades say i earn this and i earn that but i bet they don t go online and tell the whole world.also when i clean one of these so called high earners how come there at home 10 a m mon morning and then they say can i pay
you friday cheers mick

very true
i was going to put tosh's(tosh is, toshes toshiro's ) origiinal quote in but cant,anyway he makes a good point.I live in south lincs(officially poor area)loads of immigrant workers here, i have been asked if i "have any work please" loads of times,and this week i was watched by four blokes from (some where in)eastern europe as i did a house ,they had a good old chinwag as i worked,pointing and talking among themselves.Keep posting about how much you earn and these guys (along with "REDUNDANT JOE" and his 10k pay off ) will be coming your way soon

[tacky]

we ll said tosh .when i read about some of the guys on here earning big money .i think bloody great ,i just hope mr ,taxman is not reading these figures ,n think we all on mega bucks ,n start reviewing ar paper work .

[philboy]

Tosh, you're absolutly right! we all know how well we can do at this game so why tell everyone else, the more people that realise, the worst it will be for all of us.

[L.J.Thorpe]

Tosh, you're absolutly right! we all know how well we can do at this game so why tell everyone else, the more people that realise, the worst it will be for all of us.

ditto time to BOYCOTT earnings threads

[Ian_Giles]

As a mod it can be hard to judge when to draw the line and lock a thread on topics such as income, there are often good counter points being made for all of the nonsense.

If you see a post or reply you have made thats been deleted, it may not have much to do with the thrust of your reply, but if you have used a swearword in it, regardless of asterisks then the entire reply will be deleted, humorous or not.

If replies with cussing in are still there then it is only because I haven't seen them.

With regards overheads, as a general rule of thumb - arguably - you need to allow a good 5k per annum for a sole trader, take that off the figure you are submitting to the tax man and it will give you a fair indication of what your income is.
your business turnover and your personal income are two very different things.

you want to be 'pro' then have a business account and set up a standing order into your personal account for your weekly or monthly wage...you'll soon learn what your real income is.
Some of us will do this, and no, I'm not one of them, but I have done it in the past and caught a cold! (some years ago I might add).

Very few sole trader window cleaners will be submitting more than 20k to the tax man for their business turnover.
Everything is geared towards showing our income to be as small as possible to limit our tax liability (no fun if you are going for a mortgage) but if the average window cleaner is submitting between 15 and 17k, his true personal income is going to be down around the 10/12k mark.

And then we get lots of LOUD posts about the potential to earn £500 a day!!!!!
It just doesn't happen (sorry, very rarely happens).
And it takes many years to build and hone a good round, you ain't gonna do this in a few months.
Yet to read some posts you'd think all you need to do is buy a WFP setup and earn squillions!

Time I got off here and got back to printing invoices, doing the banking, emailing invoices, going into town and spending an hour and a half collecting payments from my shops...a real high earning day today eh?
Not that I care cos I earned over a £1000 yesterday and I was finished by lunchtime : :

Ian

[Tosh]

Time I got off here and got back to printing invoices, doing the banking, emailing invoices, going into town and spending an hour and a half collecting payments from my shops...a real high earning day today eh?

Ian

Ian,  so why was your van parked outside the Fisherman's Pub half-an-hour ago, eh?

You don't clean there, so you weren't collecting! 

[matt]

And then we get lots of LOUD posts about the potential to earn £500 a day!!!!!
It just doesn't happen (sorry, very rarely happens).
And it takes many years to build and hone a good round, you ain't gonna do this in a few months.
Yet to read some posts you'd think all you need to do is buy a WFP setup and earn squillions!



Ian

This is my issue with the posts, it gives WC'ers the wrong message, i had a PM off some1 on the DIY forum last weekend , he knew he could contact me on it , now his story went like this

a WC'er for 7 years, allways using a ladder
he got online and read post on here about the WFP system and it doubling / tripleing earnings after the 3rd clean, people say its twice as fast and sometimes faster
he went out and brought a system of a seller, had it installed in his van
he was disheartended as its been 5 months and he isnt much faster ( average 20 quid a day ), he wanted some advice, i tried to help him with a few things, his pole was some heavy orange thing certain suppliers still use

now all these posts give fellow WC'ers the wrong idea, hey also give people who are thinking of becomming WC'ers the wrong idea, the market is fairly full these days, ive said it a few times before, when the eastern europeans catch on they will be happy to do your 10 quid house for 6 quid

[Helen]

Tosh

My Porsche mechanic charges me £120 an hour

My local Garage charges £42 + vat an hour.

Most builders now want £200 - £300 a day.

Sigh!

How does this compare with window cleaning?

Your porche mechanic; what's his overheads?

Your local garage; what's his overheads?

Builders; What's their overheads?  Does he have repeat buisness? 
Dave, you're comparing apples with elephants!

At last a post which says exactly how it is. I would never never demean window cleaning, but how can we wc'ers compare ourselves with specialist trades? Most of us do not run from units, so have no overheads there so to speak.
I would never post how much I take from the business, but can assure you that it is not a vast amount. But at the end of the day, I am now happier than ever before working for someone else! In my books happiness and health are the best riches you can have.
We have staff.....if the cashflow goes slow then it is I who has to use an overdraft facility as staff have to be paid first for obvious reasons. The same goes for overheads etc etc....it ain't easy all the time. Yes we all can bring in a high amount per day, but not everyday, we all have our good areas and not so good.
I agree no more "boasting" about income and if I ever have then apologies

[macmac]

And then we get lots of LOUD posts about the potential to earn £500 a day!!!!!
It just doesn't happen (sorry, very rarely happens).
And it takes many years to build and hone a good round, you ain't gonna do this in a few months.
Yet to read some posts you'd think all you need to do is buy a WFP setup and earn squillions!
 

Here, here, here.
Absolutely spot on Ian, that's what get's my back up ( & yes, i know it shouldn't )
Just think of all the newbies reading such rubbish, making big carreer & often financial commitments being fed such utter tripe by boasters who always fail to tell the whole story like how long it will REALY take to start even earning a basic living- nevermind 200+ per day.
My point is- if you're gonna boast how well you are doing you should also add the things it's taken you to get there, like, how long you've been going, what you earned for your first few years etc. Not give readers from all over the country the impression they too can instantley demand 50 quid per hour, how they'll be over-run with customers from day one etc.etc. It's nonesense & is IMO doing more damage than good.

Tony

[Moderator David@stives]

A mobile mechanic still charges big bucks.

A Block layer just needs a trowel

A good carpenter only needs a bag full of tools

A plumber ditto

I could set up as a painter and decorator tommorrow for less than £50

Where are all these overheads coming from ?

Get real window cleaners now need just as much specialist equipment as most trades, in fact i have just bought a £1000 pole.

I have already spent over £15'000 on equipment and i still need more stuff

Window cleaners are not unique in being able to earn money.

[macmac]

A mobile mechanic still charges big bucks.

A Block layer just needs a trowel

A good carpenter only needs a bag full of tools

A plumber ditto

I could set up as a painter and decorator tommorrow for less than £50

Where are all these overheads coming from ?

Get real window cleaners now need just as much specialist equipment as most trades, in fact i have just bought a £1000 pole.

I have already spent over £15'000 on equipment and i still need more stuff

Window cleaners are not unique in being able to earn money.

What pole did you get?
And, personaly, i think your circumstances only reflect about 1 to 2% of w/cers nation wide.

[TennetClean]

I wish people would NOT post how much they earn.

Not boasting but my hourly rate is very good even by window cleaning standards, AND I WANT IT TO STAY THAT WAY

Saying "Yeah I earn like £200 a day" etc, sure I dont doubt it but why tell the world?  If people generally knew how much window cleaners get a lot more would do it, which would NOT be good for us.

Window cleaning is a nice well kept secret.  We know its great.  So why do numpty boasters feel the need to tell the world about it and jeopardise our businesses?  dont know if you noticed but type window cleaning in to google and you get...this forum.  Foreigners will do that and see how much they can earn and think "aha"

SO PLEASE STOP WITH THE "HOW MUCH I EARN IN A DAY" STUFF.

[Sir Squeaky]

...in fact i have just bought a £1000 pole.

Rearrange...

Saw Coming They Me.

[Tosh]

A good carpenter only needs a bag full of tools

A plumber ditto

I think a Corgi registered plumber needs to pay about £2000 per year to keep his Corgi membership; and I think there's a lot of insurance costs on top of that!

So it's just more than a bag of tools, Dave.

C'mon!

[Sir Squeaky]

I think a Corgi registered plumber needs to pay about £2000 per year to keep his Corgi membership

Is the Queen a plumber?

[frames to panes]

Dare i say it, your talking about skilled trades there too.  
What really winds me up is the fact that the braggers come out with the old chestnut of "i'm only posting my earnings to help others on this forum" or "i'm not bragging but i earn x amount of money, and i'm great and my customers love me and they all pay MY prices" - brilliant.
 Some of the top earners don't seem to be sole traders but have a larger business employing staff which will give them large turnovers etc but they sometimes forget to mention this, which leaves the newbie somewhat amazed at the potential earnings.

[Moderator David@stives]

I didnt want to get drawn in, it doesnt really bother me.

So i will bow out of this one.

Squeeky

how much did your bag of broken fishing rods cost you ?

Dave

[frames to panes]

Dave, not trying to wind you up, you come across as being one of the succesful ones on here and i have no gripe with you at all.

[Captain Scarlet]

Moderators:

I have not considered this for long enough but have you considered making it the forum rules that people cant post their earnings on here? as it seems to cause alot of friction. I think its fine to discuss the individual price of a job in the "how much for this" type threads but anything else seems to be go out of control, Luke

[Moderator David@stives]

DJW 

   theres no probs at all

Dave

p.s wheres squeeky, gone fishing ?

[Pj]

What pole Dave?

[Moderator David@stives]

All will be revealed later ah ah

[Pj]

Awwwwwwww!

Bet you couldn't catch an old trout with it!

[mark dew]

There are very few trades that can be learned properly in 10 minutes. Which is how long it will take to learn how to clean a window.
The real skill with our work is in becoming very quick, pricing properly and marketing ourselves in the best way possible. That does take time and experience.

[Moderator David@stives]

one final thought

Taken from business link

If you are operating in a market that is stagnant, or in decline, you may want to exit the business or merge
with competitors. Larger companies are usually in a better position to exploit mature markets.
It is difficult for a small business to create market growth.

Window cleaning at the moment is a growth market , but when it does become saturated there is still hope.

[matt]

I wish people would NOT post how much they earn.

Not boasting but my hourly rate is very good even by window cleaning standards, AND I WANT IT TO STAY THAT WAY

Saying "Yeah I earn like £200 a day" etc, sure I dont doubt it but why tell the world?  If people generally knew how much window cleaners get a lot more would do it, which would NOT be good for us.

Window cleaning is a nice well kept secret.  We know its great.  So why do numpty boasters feel the need to tell the world about it and jeopardise our businesses?  dont know if you noticed but type window cleaning in to google and you get...this forum.  Foreigners will do that and see how much they can earn and think "aha"

SO PLEASE STOP WITH THE "HOW MUCH I EARN IN A DAY" STUFF.

thats the first post you have made thats made sence

thats 1 post that was helpfull and 1 that made sence

2008 has really been your years hasnt it

[macmac]

Moderators:

I have not considered this for long enough but have you considered making it the forum rules that people cant post their earnings on here? as it seems to cause alot of friction. I think its fine to discuss the individual price of a job in the "how much for this" type threads but anything else seems to be go out of control, Luke

The problem with that luke is someone will show a 4 bed detatched property & the braggers will be at it again with silly statements like- 50 quid, wouldn't get out of bed otherwise :
We can all look big & mighty on a forum if we want to but it doesn't help anyone.

Tony

[Moderator David@stives]

easy clean you dont fancy changing a clutch in a 1990 911 carrera 4 do you ?

[dai]

The real big hitters in window cleaning never even post on here, or any other forum for that matter, they just quietly get on with their business. Educating the opposition is the last thing a hard headed businessman would do.
Dave ST Ives has done well since he went over to WFP, I remember him posting when he was about to become an employer.
Dave, did you buy more work at this time? A little insight into your thinking at that time would be enlightening.
You were a trad cleaner with a good round, we both went WFP at the same time, if my memory serves me right. something happened shortly afterwords, that seemed to take your business on to new heights.
Did you buy more work, canvass like hell or what.

Your experience in taking your business forward, would be a lot more interesting than what other people earn. Dai

[Moderator David@stives]

Dai

To tell you the truth i dont know what fully happened.

I didnt buy any more work , infact i gave loads up and gave a lot to other window cleaners.

For about 2 years i lived and breathed window cleaning even waking up in the middle of the night stressing about certain jobs.
All the people who know me know that i am curious and mithered everone at trade shows etc picking there brains etc.

I sat and worked out how the big guns did it, I noticed they all worked at there businesses constantly shaping and molding it.
I set myself  targets for how much extra turnover i wanted, then worked out what it took to achieve each and every goal.

A lot of business is won on personality, my wife is electric and lights up rooms when she walks in, so a lot of my success can be attributed to my wife, when she goes to give a quote she always bags the job.

I cant put my finger on any one thing, but i would say being in the right place at the right time plays a big part.
Just prepare yourself , act professional at all times and be prepared to pounce when the guy doing the big job down the road messes up.

Dave

[Sir Squeaky]

DJW 

   theres no probs at all

Dave

p.s wheres squeeky, gone fishing ?

If you think I've got a fishing pole you are very wrong.

Besides, I hate fishing, it's the most boring thing in the world. (after window cleaners)

[Moderator David@stives]

All right how much was your superlite ?

And do you still use it ?

Does it break easily ?

My saw me coming pole is great by the way

[L.J.Thorpe]

I wish people would NOT post how much they earn.

Not boasting but my hourly rate is very good even by window cleaning standards, AND I WANT IT TO STAY THAT WAY

Saying "Yeah I earn like £200 a day" etc, sure I dont doubt it but why tell the world?  If people generally knew how much window cleaners get a lot more would do it, which would NOT be good for us.

Window cleaning is a nice well kept secret.  We know its great.  So why do numpty boasters feel the need to tell the world about it and jeopardise our businesses?  dont know if you noticed but type window cleaning in to google and you get...this forum.  Foreigners will do that and see how much they can earn and think "aha"

SO PLEASE STOP WITH THE "HOW MUCH I EARN IN A DAY" STUFF.

sometimes tennet you get my back up on some issues but we agree on this one

[Sir Squeaky]

All right how much was your superlite(2) ? I got a deal, but would have been £350-odd.

And do you still use it ? Yes, every day.

Does it break easily ? No, stood on it, whacked it, shut the van door on it. It's mint.
By the way, it's so light I can hold it at 20-odd feet horizontally with one hand.

My saw me coming pole is great by the way At 3 times the price...

[Moderator David@stives]

I seem to remember you had a lot of trouble with it a while back.

How big is it ?

[Sir Squeaky]

That was the original superlight, not the superlight2.
It's totally different.

It's only about 27ft, but that's more than enough at the moment.
If I need higher I'll just buy a few extra sections.

[Pj]

Come on David@StSeagull

Now you've found out from Squeaky exactly what pole he has and how much he paid for it, which one did you get for 1k?

[Moderator David@stives]

60 ft excell, quite a bit less than £1k, got a cracking deal from Windowcleaningwarehouse, so much so i nearly made them cry.
I really wanted a facelift but the 8 ft sections were too much to handle.
I will still buy a 40 ft facelift sometime this year though

http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=51553.0

[Paul Coleman]

And then we get lots of LOUD posts about the potential to earn £500 a day!!!!!
It just doesn't happen (sorry, very rarely happens).
And it takes many years to build and hone a good round, you ain't gonna do this in a few months.
Yet to read some posts you'd think all you need to do is buy a WFP setup and earn squillions!
 

Here, here, here.
Absolutely spot on Ian, that's what get's my back up ( & yes, i know it shouldn't )
Just think of all the newbies reading such rubbish, making big carreer & often financial commitments being fed such utter tripe by boasters who always fail to tell the whole story like how long it will REALY take to start even earning a basic living- nevermind 200+ per day.
My point is- if you're gonna boast how well you are doing you should also add the things it's taken you to get there, like, how long you've been going, what you earned for your first few years etc. Not give readers from all over the country the impression they too can instantley demand 50 quid per hour, how they'll be over-run with customers from day one etc.etc. It's nonesense & is IMO doing more damage than good.

Tony

Sure thing Tony.  Although I have some very good earning parts in my round, much of it is pretty good, some of it OK and there's still a little bit of not so good.  However, the struggles I went through at first were enough to put most people off.  Most of the first year I was out in the evening either canvassing or collecting (I do neither these days except an occasional canvass if I pick up a single job in a decent area).  It was very hard work though I did have some time free in the day.  In fact, I may not have got it off the ground at all but for a very well paid driving job that I was doing one week per month.  It involved going away for a week at a time and driving one of those advertising wagons around to advertise new Superdrug stores in the relevant area.  It was done via an advertising agency and I was self-employed.  I gradually built my (very underpriced) W/C round up around it.  No internet then to turn to for advice as it was 1991/92.  That was still a struggle even though I only had trad tools to pay for.  If I had a van/system/poles loan to repay, I don't think I could have done it in spite of the higher hourly rate once the first couple of cleans have been done.

[Paul Coleman]

Potential earnings of......that's what people should be telling us.  it's not an immediate figure that can be achieved.  There should be clear facts on this forum and MORE DELETIONS OF PURELYCRAP POSTS.  Posts get lost VERY QUICKLY in the overhwelming flood of drivel and cack.  Moderators are not doing enough and there needs to be more of them to do it.

You volunteering then?  I see you already have a head start by using red type.

[Londoner]

He uses red type because on the light blue background of the forum  it  resembles West Ham colours.

Turn the colour off please Cleanintime

[Ian_Giles]

Mmm....

I get enough stick as it is for the posts and replies I am continually deleting, it would help if people posting would think before they post.
But although you may THINK a post is drivel, in your personal opinion, the poster may well think quite the reverse.
I would agree that in posts about earnings, anyone reading them would think that all you have to do is become a window cleaner and Bobs your uncle! £500 a day....sorted!
Complete cobblers of course it takes many years and plenty of savvy to develop and hone a round to the point where you are earning top money, and even then it is only really the top few percent of sole traders that will achieve top earnings, most will 'bob' along just keeping their heads above water.

There are thousands on the forum, it isn't for the moderators to go around slashing posts so that they only reflect their own viewpoint.

For all of the rubbish spouted there are others that counter the nonsense with considered and well thought replies...and these are the balancing factor in the threads.

Swearing, obvious flaming, stupid little replies with nothing more than smiley's in or obviously posts that contribute nothing to the thread get deleted constantly.
And if members see something they consider needs to be looked at by a moderator then there is always the report to moderator button, therefore concerned forum members also help keep a check on what's going on...not that many bother reporting what they consider offensive mind!

Ian

[Tosh]

I think this would be a good point to resurect an old post of mine, since I've just had a bit of 'sport' with a couple of fellow members who've been bragging about their earnings.

Apologies to Dave, for having to moderate, and apologies to Ronnie, who I did want to wind up; but still feel you deserved it.

But I think that there's some good posts in this thread.

[s.w.c]

well that was a lot to read from start of thread, well tosh has a point , well as far as it goes for me as long as i can earn a bob or two I'm happy.

[groundhog]

i love em i do

allways good for a laugh

im working all my jobs around so i can get all the best paid jobs done in 1 day, it'll be end of may i think, my only fall down is i like to be home for my daughters bed time at 7.30 - 45
But i think if i start my comercial at 4.30 and then go and do my better paid doemstic, then off to do some more commercail after 5, i should have a bumper day i worked it out and its a nice little number

This is what I do matt, except I am striving to make my whole round like this! so all my work is my best work!! Why not!?! 

[foxy]

this seems to have really got people going. some window cleaners earn very good money. you don't need to be WFP to do this. most do not earn a fortune. window cleaning is not a real trade - it is an occupation. you do not need to study at college or earn a qualification, you are not required to be a member of a guild or craft oraganisation. if you make decent money, all well and good. it (window cleaning) by WFP or traditional is a skill that can be picked up quickly. if you've got a decent round you are lucky. if your overheads are (as a sole trader or with a grafter) are over £100 then something has to be wrong. peace

[Paul Coleman]

this seems to have really got people going. some window cleaners earn very good money. you don't need to be WFP to do this. most do not earn a fortune. window cleaning is not a real trade - it is an occupation. you do not need to study at college or earn a qualification, you are not required to be a member of a guild or craft oraganisation. if you make decent money, all well and good. it (window cleaning) by WFP or traditional is a skill that can be picked up quickly. if you've got a decent round you are lucky. if your overheads are (as a sole trader or with a grafter) are over £100 then something has to be wrong. peace

£100 per how long?  I assume per week.  Once the expensive stuff is bought and paid for, I could do it on under £100 a week I reckon.  Much of that is for diesel.

[dmlservices]

This isn't hard cheese; I'm a lucky bloke; I have a good life and have a lot to be thankful for; and I do understand that when someone reaches a milestone, such as £200 in-a-day for the first time they're pretty chuffed, don't want to tell their mates, so come on here and tell us.

I've probably done similar, but it can get a bit silly and out-of-hand.

Not only that, I don't think it's good for our trade, advertising earnings that could be true - or false - to all and sundry.

There's many new arrivals to the UK who've got a good grasp of the English language, use the internet, keen to make money and would work just as hard, if not harder and be just as professional; for much less than what some of you are charging.
So I reckon posting earnings - matter-of-factly - should be discouraged on the forum.

Just my thoughts; though I do like the 'how much should I charge for this', or 'I've just hit a new milestone' post.

good post tosh ,

 i have been warning others ,both on here and another forum for a while,

only last week i replied to a recent thread on undercutting,

i highlighted the dangers of new arrivals using the interenet , and sites like this ,

to get all the info they need,  to undercut,and lower price,

if topics like this , make us all think twice before we engage in earnings topics,

then it will be for the better.

i also think we need to be carefull about new posters ,

most of whom , do not fill in their profile

what have they got to hide?

daz

[alanwilson]

personally I reckon £100 a week is minimal for costs - think about depreciation of your van, new pumps, hoses etc every 3/5 years.

[ftp]

Funny old thread this because even if you are employed it costs to go to work but nobody ever analizes that. Say you have a second car in the household and you drive twenty miles each way to work and back - what do you think your job costs you each year? Fuel alone could be £1100 a year plus your cars running costs and depreciation (no tax allowance there). So maybe £4000? that's over £90 per week!

[Paul Coleman]

Funny old thread this because even if you are employed it costs to go to work but nobody ever analizes that. Say you have a second car in the household and you drive twenty miles each way to work and back - what do you think your job costs you each year? Fuel alone could be £1100 a year plus your cars running costs and depreciation (no tax allowance there). So maybe £4000? that's over £90 per week!

Well the running costs on my van over the past few years have been

£2,226.46 (Escort)  (04-05)
£3,225.62 (Trafic)  (05-06)
£2,744.06 (Trafic)   (06-07)
£2,273.69 (Trafic)  (07-08)

Those figures are for the business proportion of the van use (most of it) but don't cover depreciation.  I'm quite surprised by them really as I would hardly describe my round as compact..  Indeed, the 06-07 figure includes a servicing/repair bill for about £1,000.  I expected those numbers to be much higher once I switched to the Trafic.  I don't have another bvehicle so those figures represent 85% of the total running costs of the van.
And for those who may think I worry over every little bit, don't mistake my thoroughness for pedantry.  I bet most on here would be unable to access those figures in the space of less than two minutes.

[ftp]

I think depreciation would be the biggest chunk particularly for those leasing brand new vans and equipment.

[ftp]

In thirty odd years of commuting to work i never analized my costs - what for? How sad is that?

[HIGH LEVEL WINDOW CLEANERS (scrimmy)]

but isint depreciation taken into account when it comes to doing your tax return?

[ftp]

Yes, but only for the self employed.

[jefftemperley]

the car wash market in this country is almost exclusive territory of the eastern europeans, they saw an opportunity and have cornered the market inside ten years.

It should worry everyone here that they might catch on and start another industry invasion.

there is nothing to learn from knowing how much someone earns it only risks more people flooding our game with crap pricing undermining years of hard work to set customers expectations at a sensible level,
its  how we work , equipment used , marketing methods etc which we can all benefit from on the forum.

its a shame more of us dont network together to build more of a closed shop where jobs could be passed around to ''members'' and favours done here and there.

[s.w.c]

basic human mistake is people talk to much, there is a few window cleaners around hear they spout of how much they reckon they earn blah blah etc , how i reply is good for you glad things are going well, then then ask me about my business i reply same old same old I'm making a living, they  then try to probe further, i reply i'm just a poor window cleaner trying to make a living, what is it with these types of people. before i set up in window cleaning i use to be a owner driver around London and use to get the same people in that trade asking same sort of question,