[Ian W]

There are about 3000 deaths a year on the road. So window cleaning is relatively safe compared to driving. We all do that and don't tend to worry too much. We need to saty safe, but keep it all in perspective.

Perhaps the safest way to ensure you get home is to walk your ladders everywhere?  

[williamx]

The HSE say that there are 60 deaths and thousands of injuries suffered every year from ladder falls.

You might be sick of the heath and safety rules, but they are not going to go away.

how many of these are actually window cleaners falling whilst doing there job, 

I don't know the figures, I have seen on the HSE website in the past that 12 window cleaners have died from falls from ladders, but if it is preventable why does one even have to die

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

The HSE say that there are 60 deaths and thousands of injuries suffered every year from ladder falls.

You might be sick of the heath and safety rules, but they are not going to go away.

how many of these are actually window cleaners falling whilst doing there job, 

I don't know the figures, I have seen on the HSE website in the past that 12 window cleaners have died from falls from ladders, but if it is preventable why does one even have to die

It comes down to risk Vs economy.

If you were to have a road accident (of which there is a greater chance of happening than falling off your ladder) which vehicle would you choose to have it in, given the choice (which you have)

A. a mini (cost 13k)

B. a rangerover ? (cost 40k)

[williamx]

The HSE say that there are 60 deaths and thousands of injuries suffered every year from ladder falls.

You might be sick of the heath and safety rules, but they are not going to go away.

how many of these are actually window cleaners falling whilst doing there job, 

I don't know the figures, I have seen on the HSE website in the past that 12 window cleaners have died from falls from ladders, but if it is preventable why does one even have to die

It comes down to risk Vs economy.

If you were to have a road accident (of which there is a greater chance of happening than falling off your ladder) which vehicle would you choose to have it in, given the choice (which you have)

A. a mini (cost 13k)

B. a rangerover ? (cost 40k)

A Tank (cost £30 million)

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

The HSE say that there are 60 deaths and thousands of injuries suffered every year from ladder falls.

You might be sick of the heath and safety rules, but they are not going to go away.

how many of these are actually window cleaners falling whilst doing there job, 

I don't know the figures, I have seen on the HSE website in the past that 12 window cleaners have died from falls from ladders, but if it is preventable why does one even have to die

It comes down to risk Vs economy.

If you were to have a road accident (of which there is a greater chance of happening than falling off your ladder) which vehicle would you choose to have it in, given the choice (which you have)

A. a mini (cost 13k)

B. a rangerover ? (cost 40k)

A Tank (cost £30 million)

Would you like your liscence revoked untill you can afford such?

[williamx]

The basic cost to go wfp is less than £250 (backpack and di tank- resin and pole) what is the cost of a decent set of ladders, not the ones available at B&Q?

[Ian Mason]

The basic cost to go wfp is less than £250 (backpack and di tank- resin and pole) what is the cost of a decent set of ladders, not the ones available at B&Q?

I would like nothing more than to set up using WFP, but I am going to have to go down the trad route first, because I simply can`t set up a purification unit in my flat

I did ask a relation, but they won`t allow me to do it on their property.

[williamx]

If you use a DI system you can leave this in your vechicle and fill up at your customers homes, if they are not on a meter they normally will allow you to.

[Ian Mason]

If you use a DI system you can leave this in your vechicle and fill up at your customers homes, if they are not on a meter they normally will allow you to.

I have briefly looked into this, & I am in a hard water area, so need the RO system aswell, I think?

[williamx]

Even though you are in a hard water area you can still use a di only system, it will cost you more in resin but when you set your prices, this should reflect the cost.

The goverment have made a pledge that all households will be on a water meter, so the windpw cleaner who uses a ro system will have this extra cost to budget for when they go on a meter.

In all businesses you have to look at the costs to do the work against the price you charge.

[Ian Mason]

Even though you are in a hard water area you can still use a di only system, it will cost you more in resin but when you set your prices, this should reflect the cost.

The goverment have made a pledge that all households will be on a water meter, so the windpw cleaner who uses a ro system will have this extra cost to budget for when they go on a meter.

In all businesses you have to look at the costs to do the work against the price you charge.

Hi again,

Thanks, I will have a look into how I go about doing this then.

[♠Winp®oClean♠]

Hard water area will eat resin. If he has to reflect this cost in his prices then he is at a disadvantage with his competition right away.

Can't rely on customers outside tap as in winter they're all turned off.

Cost of wfp is not the only factor here.

[williamx]

Even though you are in a hard water area you can still use a di only system, it will cost you more in resin but when you set your prices, this should reflect the cost.

The goverment have made a pledge that all households will be on a water meter, so the windpw cleaner who uses a ro system will have this extra cost to budget for when they go on a meter.

In all businesses you have to look at the costs to do the work against the price you charge.

Hi again,

Thanks, I will have a look into how I go about doing this then.

You also can look at the speed of the work you do, with ladders especially if you are just starting out are a lot slower than using wfp, you also are limited on some of the work you can do, for example I cleaned 3 properties yesterday.

I live in Birmingham and the 1st job was in Kegworth, 39 miles away, it comprised of the communal windows on 3 apartment blocks which where 3 storeys high both inside and out.

The inside where done tradinational while the outsides I used a backpack, because it was easier and more time effective to do so.

The next job was in Ruddighton, Nottingham, 9 miles away, this was 4 apartment blocks with all the outside windows and the internal communal windows to be cleaned, this was also 3 storey high.

The next was in Grantham 29 miles away, this was a huge mill which has been converted into flats.  The highest window was 40', but with the reach, I needed a 60' pole.

I left Birmingham at 10.00 and I finshed at Grantham at 17.00hrs, and I charged the customer £305.

This could not be done with a ladder

[gerard mcmanus]

Ok, I have two points to add, no sorry three.

1. Hydro is you use additives that can take the paint of glass, what is to stop it from taking the paint of the frames, or the painted brick work, and killing anything growing in the garden as well because lets face it if it can remove paint from glass, its probably a good weed killer as well.

Secondly I know that the ionics systems are pretty well secured and have seen some good DIY systems as well, but if we outlaw ladders, we should also outlaw all the WFP systems that are secured with straps, i.e. the £300 set-ups. Because the guy will have to tell his kids, sorry I am not coming home, I was in a car crash I could have survived in as I was wearing a seatbelt, but I was crushed to death with a 300ltr baffled tank of water.

Thirdly, I currently do spend a number of hours training with employees on using ladders and safety devices. However I would agree to a safety course with a certificate or licence to say that you have attended.

[gerard mcmanus]

Sorry one more, if everyone moved over to WFP there would inevitably be less window cleaners.

If I have 300 custies, and do then trad, I will make less money, if I do the same custies WFP due to expenditure, so I would need more custies to make the same amount of profit.

So if there was only 900 potential custies in all of the uk, there could be three window cleaners trad, or three window cleaners WFP struggling to make a living, and inevitably one will go. So less jobs.

Although everyone says there is plenty of work out there, we are on here complaining about the number of newbies bringing down prices, and we know that the true is there is only so much the market can hold.

 

[williamx]

Ok, I have two points to add, no sorry three.

1. Hydro is you use additives that can take the paint of glass, what is to stop it from taking the paint of the frames, or the painted brick work, and killing anything growing in the garden as well because lets face it if it can remove paint from glass, its probably a good weed killer as well.

For paint I use a scraper the same as a ladder cleaner, I also use Oil Flo or  T-Cut which is excellent on removing window sealant, limescale and bird crap.

Secondly I know that the ionics systems are pretty well secured and have seen some good DIY systems as well, but if we outlaw ladders, we should also outlaw all the WFP systems that are secured with straps, i.e. the £300 set-ups. Because the guy will have to tell his kids, sorry I am not coming home, I was in a car crash I could have survived in as I was wearing a seatbelt, but I was crashed to death with a 300ltr baffled tank of water.

In December I crashed and wrote off my van, the water tank was racheted down with the same rachets that lorry drivers use, the result, the van was totalled, the hose reel took a trip around the inside of the van and broke a few things, me and the passengers I was carrying where fine and the water tank did not move 1mm.  The insurance company have paid out for everything.
Thirdly, I currently do spend a number of hours training with employees on using ladders and safety devices. However I would agree to a safety course with a certificate or licence to say that you have attended.

[gerard mcmanus]

you use a scraper on top of a 20 foot pole?

[gerard mcmanus]

Don't you want to ban cars and vans. You wear very lucky as a lot of window cleaners have been when they had a fall. I agree there is a risk that we should limit were we can. But there is a risk in everything, including WFP. I am sure there is plenty of WC who can say I fell of my ladder and didn't die! and I would say to them they were very lucky as well.

Yes it eliminates the risk of a fall, but adds the risk of electrocution, and increases the risk when in car accidents.

[williamx]

you use a scraper on top of a 20 foot pole?

I sometimes use a 80' pole, I am still looking for that 100' job.

[williamx]

Yes it eliminates the risk of a fall, but adds the risk of electrocution, and increases the risk when in car accidents.

They use wfp in America all the time and they don't seem to be having any problems with this.

Having a set of ladder tied down on a roof rack are also dangerous if in a car accident if they come loose and are projected into a load of people