[Clive McDonald]

Earlier someone explained about spares prices and a car costing twenty seven times pusrchase price if bought as independent spares.

Well stock control has a similar mad logic.The funds required to stock gardiners range are enormous.The more successful they are the more money they need.If they are a cautious firm, and i think they are, then they probably like to extract some cash.

Imagine if every week they sold twice the previous weeks quantity, then they would never ever make a profit because all the sales money would have to be used for stock.The only way they can have any cash is by letting stock run out.

And then if they only have 30' poles they must sell these by saying 22' poles which they don't have are rubbish.

Sounds daft but that's how it works. Cash flow for a successfull business is difficult because more is needed in a geometric progression.The better you do the more skint you are

[matt]

Earlier someone explained about spares prices and a car costing twenty seven times pusrchase price if bought as independent spares.

Well stock control has a similar mad logic.The funds required to stock gardiners range are enormous.The more successful they are the more money they need.If they are a cautious firm, and i think they are, then they probably like to extract some cash.

Imagine if every week they sold twice the previous weeks quantity, then they would never ever make a profit because all the sales money would have to be used for stock.The only way they can have any cash is by letting stock run out.

And then if they only have 30' poles they must sell these by saying 22' poles which they don't have are rubbish.

Sounds daft but that's how it works. Cash flow for a successfull business is difficult because more is needed in a geometric progression.The better you do the more skint you are

surely the answer is to have the ETD and take a deposit

[Window Washers]

Earlier someone explained about spares prices and a car costing twenty seven times pusrchase price if bought as independent spares.

Well stock control has a similar mad logic.The funds required to stock gardiners range are enormous.The more successful they are the more money they need.If they are a cautious firm, and i think they are, then they probably like to extract some cash.

Imagine if every week they sold twice the previous weeks quantity, then they would never ever make a profit because all the sales money would have to be used for stock.The only way they can have any cash is by letting stock run out.

And then if they only have 30' poles they must sell these by saying 22' poles which they don't have are rubbish.

Sounds daft but that's how it works. Cash flow for a successfull business is difficult because more is needed in a geometric progression.The better you do the more skint you are

surely the answer is to have the ETD and take a deposit

I would be asking for money up front, cuts down on people wasting there time, also they could sell spares cheaper 

[Spruce]

Earlier someone explained about spares prices and a car costing twenty seven times pusrchase price if bought as independent spares.

Well stock control has a similar mad logic.The funds required to stock gardiners range are enormous.The more successful they are the more money they need.If they are a cautious firm, and i think they are, then they probably like to extract some cash.

Imagine if every week they sold twice the previous weeks quantity, then they would never ever make a profit because all the sales money would have to be used for stock.The only way they can have any cash is by letting stock run out.

And then if they only have 30' poles they must sell these by saying 22' poles which they don't have are rubbish.

Sounds daft but that's how it works. Cash flow for a successfull business is difficult because more is needed in a geometric progression.The better you do the more skint you are

surely the answer is to have the ETD and take a deposit

I would be asking for money up front, cuts down on people wasting there time, also they could sell spares cheaper 

It doesn't work that way, sadly. A policy like that usually chases customers away.

[wizard]

I don’t think it is wise for Gardeners to stay quite and not keeping there customers informed. All this speculation is not good for there business. With continued speculation people don’t know  the  facts or fiction. Bad P R  can breed from situation and lead to rumour.

[JSMC]

yeah holding stock costs companie sload so cash and if only buying in small amounts of stock then the price they pay will most likely be higher. What ye need is basically a JIT system (just in time). This works well in factories and stuff when ordering chemicals. We only held what we needed and sometime slittle more but if you wanted to hold more most of the time ye were told no as it's costing the comaony money to hold stock. Money could be used elsewhere.

[JSMC]

I don’t think it is wise for Gardeners to stay quite and not keeping there customers informed. All this speculation is not good for there business. With continued speculation people don’t know  the  facts or fiction. Bad P R  can breed from situation and lead to rumour.

they dont really need to justify their prices to anyone. Would you go to B&Q and demand to know why drill bits are so expensive?

[davids3511]

I don’t think it is wise for Gardeners to stay quite and not keeping there customers informed. All this speculation is not good for there business. With continued speculation people don’t know  the  facts or fiction. Bad P R  can breed from situation and lead to rumour.

they dont really need to justify their prices to anyone. Would you go to B&Q and demand to know why drill bits are so expensive?

No, they don't need to justify anything but they are not on the scale of B&Q either. With B&Q if you don't but someone else in one of their 100's of stores will. A bit of bad press on a forum would have no impact whatsoever. Gardiners on the other hand is not so huge that they cannot see an impact.

[matt]

I don’t think it is wise for Gardeners to stay quite and not keeping there customers informed. All this speculation is not good for there business. With continued speculation people don’t know  the  facts or fiction. Bad P R  can breed from situation and lead to rumour.

they dont really need to justify their prices to anyone. Would you go to B&Q and demand to know why drill bits are so expensive?

No, they don't need to justify anything but they are not on the scale of B&Q either. With B&Q if you don't but someone else in one of their 100's of stores will. A bit of bad press on a forum would have no impact whatsoever. Gardiners on the other hand is not so huge that they cannot see an impact.

Gardiners do not need to sell to you though, as if you dont buy it, Dave ( FTP ) will, so no loss

[ftp]

I have more stock than Gardiners now and will be selling spare sections shortly. 

[dai]

I have read all of the posts on this thread, and will reserve judgement until the defendant has had a chance to speak.
Has he been summoned to this thread? Or maybe he is exercising his right to remain silent.
There are a couple of things worthy of consideration. I bought the SL2 55ft, it was delivered complete in one box, if however it had been delivered in 10 separate packages, how much would that of added to the cost?
I believe that Alex genuinely tries to give us what we consider to be the best tools for the job, he even evaluated the Stanley paint pad swivel conversion that I made.
The problem is that most of us are not in a position to judge what is the best tool.
OK we know what we want, a pole and brush that weighs nothing.
The practicality from an engineering aspect is daunting.
I had a number three section of the SL2 snap while I was lifting five sections of it, the pole wasn't even on the ground, it was resting on a hedge. I was positive that the pole had not sustained any previous damage.
I examined the broken section in my workshop, I am a skilled tool room machinist right up to inspection level.
I was surprised to find that at the point of breakage the wall thickness of the tube varied between 0.4 and 0.5 of a mm. I contacted Alex and emailed him photos showing the readings on the digital calipers, I also sent him the two pieces for his own inspection. Alex replaced the no 3 section free of charge. Alex said that these readings were within manufacturers tolerance.
Now from an engineering aspect 20% tolerance is from my own experience unheard of, so maybe there are manufacturing issues.
In my opinion telescopic carbon poles with this wall thickness is impractical, you have sections sliding up and down inside each other causing friction and wear, I'm no expert on the abrasive resistance of carbon fibre, but the fact that guys have complained of having black hands using these poles is worrying.
The other manufacturers have gone for a higher wall thickness, and with it increased weight, with carbon fibre being so expensive why would they do this?
We have demanded Lightness, and Alex has given it with the SLX, but is at a price where longevity is concerned?
I think that if we want a pole to last, and to be really light, then the modular route is the only practical solution, on a modular pole you can beef up the ferrules, and if we were prepared to have poles that would not stack inside each other, we could even have lightweight metallic ferrules that would last for ages.
I believe Alex to be a genuine man that really is trying to break ground in WFP technology, not easy for the little guy, and lets not forget he is still cleaning windows.

[Clive McDonald]

What a brilliant post dai, it sounds like you know your engineering.

The ' defendant' has moved on.


Leaving aside the engineering dai using an SLX is worth at least £2 a day to me if not more.It is probably 'worth' £5 a day to me. I used to use a 17' xtel and a 34' hybrid.Very often i would use step ladders with 17' either to get an angle, or gain height. So a 22' SLX used as an all day pole avoids me having to use steps and many other issues .This is why I say the pole is worth £5 a day to me.

Of course i would like it to last longer, but purely on a cost benefit basis 6 months is okay for me.

This topic has shocked a few of us, because i always thought the tool was billed as designed by a window cleaner for window cleaners. It does sound like david3511 has been properly turned over and topped up.

[dd]

Slumpy, if you look on their website Gardiners only seem to be selling the 30ft slx now so you will have to upgrade when your 22ft wears out.

[dai]

0.5 sounds to thin Dai, does depend on pole diameter size though, what is the size of the diameter?

I didn't measure the outside diameter Ewan, I was more concerned about how wear would affect very thin walls.
If your down to 0.40mm in places how much wear can it take?
I am referring to the SL2, This pole being modular will not be subject to the same wear as a telescopic with clamps. I haven't measured the wall thickness on the SLX, it may be thicker.
As you can see on the picture the walls are much thicker in some places than others,
one measurement here is 0.5mm different to the other, again I am no expert on the laws of physics, but I have to ask myself if such lack of uniformity could cause a weak spot.

[Clive McDonald]

very strong in compression.Weak laterally.

[Sapphire Window Cleaning]

Anyone use silicone spray or even WD40 on the sections to reduce wear?
I know guys who use CF fishing poles for 15 years, 2 times a week. They don't wear quickly.
Also Fishing poles are used horizontally and not vertically like we use them.
I am pretty certain that the SLX is made from fishing pole blanks, if so he will get fluctuations in wall thickness.



Matt

[dai]

Anyone use silicone spray or even WD40 on the sections to reduce wear?
I know guys who use CF fishing poles for 15 years, 2 times a week. They don't wear quickly.
Also Fishing poles are used horizontally and not vertically like we use them.
I am pretty certain that the SLX is made from fishing pole blanks, if so he will get fluctuations in wall thickness.



Matt

I use the Vaseline that came with the pole.

[MoemGorod]

Hi mates,

We use PTFE spray and the Vaseline from the SL2 kit.

rgrds,

Vadim

[matt]

i got a can of PTFE spray from a old window repair contact

i thought i would try and get my fishing pole to last 1 year, i used it once and then lost the can in my old VW T4 van, when i sold the van i found it again, it still doesnt get used

the fishing pole it now over 2 and 1/2 years old, all without the spray

is it really needed ? ? ? ?

[davids3511]

What a brilliant post dai, it sounds like you know your engineering.

The ' defendant' has moved on.


Leaving aside the engineering dai using an SLX is worth at least £2 a day to me if not more.It is probably 'worth' £5 a day to me. I used to use a 17' xtel and a 34' hybrid.Very often i would use step ladders with 17' either to get an angle, or gain height. So a 22' SLX used as an all day pole avoids me having to use steps and many other issues .This is why I say the pole is worth £5 a day to me.

Of course i would like it to last longer, but purely on a cost benefit basis 6 months is okay for me.

This topic has shocked a few of us, because i always thought the tool was billed as designed by a window cleaner for window cleaners. It does sound like david3511 has been properly turned over and topped up.

90% of the time I use the SLX as a 20ft pole and slip on the extra 2 sections as and when I need them, I do love the pole and it has made a huge difference to my working day. When you put it in terms of £2.00 a day it is well worth it.

I think Alex was always on a hiding to nothing when he introduced the SLX. Previously a carbon pole was the preserve of the minted window cleaner and not a pole used all day every day. This minted window cleaner didn't worry too much about section replacement costs.

Alex brought it to the main stream, but a main stream where £500.00 is still alot of money. He also introduced it as a cover all pole, to be used day in day out. He needed a unique selling point and that was weight. There were already loads of heavy CF poles on the market.

However, to reduce weight the walls had to be thinner. Add it all together and you have problems. You have a thin walled, expensive to replace pole used day in and day out (lots of wear) by window cleaners conscious of how much £500.00 is worth to them. I think that is why it stung when I heard the price of 3 sections