[ronnie paton]

wayneter ill try to make it simple for you im not saying a round should be sold for 4x  think a good round is worth a lot more......BUT i dont need to buy work my turnover has doubled in the last year without canvassing........BUT if i seen a good round for 4x i wouldsnap there hand off has it would make GOOD BUSINESS SENSE(not sure if you know what that is)

[1wayno]

wayneter ill try to make it simple for you im not saying a round should be sold for 4x  think a good round is worth a lot more......BUT i dont need to buy work my turnover has doubled in the last year without canvassing........BUT if i seen a good round for 4x i wouldsnap there hand off has it would make GOOD BUSINESS SENSE(not sure if you know what that is)

roneta i'll make it simple for you,if its a good round,ie. excellent prices,good paying customers,compact,easy work,then yeh it is worth abit more,but askin for 7-10times is a P take. espec for a bog standard round with bog standard prices askin for 7-10x is out of order,coz they not worth that kinda money,its that simple. im tlkin about individual rounds,not a buisness as a whole.

[L.J.S cleaning]

Hi Tony whats happened ,hope everythings ok

[Window Washers]

you have contridicting views of selling rounds,u believe that u shunt pay no more than 4x for a round..but u wudnt sell for any less than 7x..jus contridicting. i jus dont see why some people have to be soo greedy,it dus ruin it for other people,and it jus mainly the noth west which is like this,and i think it out of order. my mate got offered a round that brought in jus under 2k a month and the guy wanted 18k for it,my mate jus laffed,i cant see how people have the nerv askin for that kinda money.

You under value yourself m8, if you have great work and great pricing sure as eggs are eggs it will be more expensive. unless your work is crap as is your pricing, I would not know either as I do not know you are what you do. do you see the point ?

[Moderator David@stives]

Where's your Christmas spirit ?

Please refrain from swearing, I would hate to see any one banned over Christmas


Back to the topic.   

from my reckoning, similar businesses sell for  x 10-12 months profit

[ronnie paton]

wayneta slob(harry enfield charcter, what a programe) if you have a great round with great prices ill have it for 4 x, im guessingthe reason you would sell for 4x is its not!!!

[Ian Lancaster]

Here we go again : : : :

Does nobody ever take any notice of previous debates??

For anyone who has any experience of business other than window cleaning, there is a simple formula that can be applied to any buisiness.

1  The selling value of a business is what someone is prepared to pay for it.

2  The guide price is calculated as: 1.5 to 2.5 times the ANNUAL net profit, plus the value of any stock, vehicles equipment etc.

So for a business turning over £5000 per month, first take off all expenses (insurance, equipment repairs and replacements, vehicle expenses and devaluation, wages, employers national insurance etc etc).  Multiply the result by 12, and then by 1.5 or 2.5 to get the 'ball park' figure.

Assume net monthly profit on £5000 with 2 employees is about £1,200 (wages at £350/week plus £1,000 other expenses) then the value is £21,600 to £36,000.

If there is one working principal and one employee, the monthly net profit would be about £2,600 (principals earnings are "profit" for this purpose) giving a value of £46,800 to £78,000

Go to any business transfer agent and these are the figures they will give you

To this figure you must add the value of any vehicles, equipment, stock etc

[luther1]

At last. Well said Ian. 

[Moderator David@stives]

Ian

I totally agree with point 1.


In my investigations through talking to a former bank manager,  he says in reality service businesses such as ours sell for 10-12 times, the monthly net profit.

[luther1]

In essence,it would be cheaper to buy your round Dave than Ians . I think Ians point No1 is the most relevent as the seller always wants more than the buyer values it at.
 An old pikey once told me ,when he bid me in the nuts for my pick-up that one bidder is better than then lookers!

[Frankybadboy]

so then wayno if someone offered you 10x you simply say NO,but i let you have it for 4x cause i dont want to be greedy.

get real m8.think before you speak.

[Central Window Cleaners]

Thanks LJS cleaning,

yes everything is ok just getting a bit pee'd off being and employer and was looking at all my options thats all

[glen parva]

it not whats its worth it what someone will pay for it

and someone in your area wanting to buy it and  have the funds

we can all say what our rounds are worth buts it finding a buyer in our area !!!

[leapstallbuildings]

Here we go again : : : :

Does nobody ever take any notice of previous debates??

For anyone who has any experience of business other than window cleaning, there is a simple formula that can be applied to any buisiness.

1  The selling value of a business is what someone is prepared to pay for it.

2  The guide price is calculated as: 1.5 to 2.5 times the ANNUAL net profit, plus the value of any stock, vehicles equipment etc.

So for a business turning over £5000 per month, first take off all expenses (insurance, equipment repairs and replacements, vehicle expenses and devaluation, wages, employers national insurance etc etc).  Multiply the result by 12, and then by 1.5 or 2.5 to get the 'ball park' figure.

Assume net monthly profit on £5000 with 2 employees is about £1,200 (wages at £350/week plus £1,000 other expenses) then the value is £21,600 to £36,000.

If there is one working principal and one employee, the monthly net profit would be about £2,600 (principals earnings are "profit" for this purpose) giving a value of £46,800 to £78,000

Go to any business transfer agent and these are the figures they will give you

To this figure you must add the value of any vehicles, equipment, stock etc

Good post Ian.  In my post earlier I was thinking along the lines of two self-employed people running a partnership without staff.  I see that the number of staff would have a dramatic effect on the value.
Something else that I hadn't considered though is VAT.  Presumably such a business would be wanting to grow and exceed the VAT threshhold at some point.  Although this ought to be very doable, there could be a need to allow for losing some domestic customers due to the higher price and/or carry a reduced profit by absorbing some/all of the VAT.  Of course, if the business is already VAT registered and running smoothly with this in place, perhaps this could increase the sale value as it's one less obstacle to face in the near future.

[ronnie paton]

ewan that is a great post and may well open some eyes

[macmac]

Glad you liked it, because the more window cleaners view there business “just like any other kind of business” the more chance of a pot of gold when you do decide to sell. 

And pigs may fly!!

I think we should take bets on what he actually gets, if indeed he decides to sell.

I'll start it off.

My bet is about one third of what Ewan & Ronnie think.

[ronnie paton]

how much do you want to bet mac???

so you say 1/3 of my valuation which would be abot 40-50 grand including equipment this is worked out on about 1.5 x annual profit which iv guestimated plus stock(vehicles and equipment)

so shall we have have ten grand on it mac??? has your valuation is about 13-15 grand

[macmac]

how much do you want to bet mac???

so you say 1/3 of my valuation which would be abot 40-50 grand including equipment this is worked out on about 1.5 x annual profit which iv guestimated plus stock(vehicles and equipment)

so shall we have have ten grand on it mac??? has your valuation is about 13-15 grand

Yes, nearest final price wins!

[ronnie paton]

cool im happy with that. get my cheque ready mac

central ill have it for 35k mac will give you ten of that

Just so we all can see there was a business that cleaned windows has it main service it had two vans a couple of employees and some trusted subbies its profits were about 55k turnover 150ish it sold for for near 150k and that was 3 years go.

it can be don  if yo have the business run right.

[macmac]

cool im happy with that. get my cheque ready mac

central ill have it for 35k mac will give you ten of that

Just so we all can see there was a business that cleaned windows has it main service it had two vans a couple of employees and some trusted subbies its profits were about 55k turnover 150ish it sold for for near 150k and that was 3 years go.

it can be don  if yo have the business run right.

Things were very, very different three years ago ronald. get your reddies ready!