[david willis]

I think so far I have sufficiently answered your questions but to make it clear to you

A) I am not the trainer, I have just supplied you with the experience and qualifications of the 'trainer'

B) There is more to commercial window cleaning than just WFP, which you seem to highly focuse on, so I am taking it you just use WFP

C) You still haven't supplied us with your experience and qualifications...and this is why the NVQ is important within the industry as it is a tool to prove your competency rather than just lip servicing

One final point I will make is there are a number of people who use the forum that have been along to our training sessions, ask them their views on the knowledge and experience of the trainer as it will be a neutral viewpoint!

[drwindows]

C) You still haven't supplied us with your experience and qualifications...and this is why the NVQ is important within the industry as it is a tool to prove your competency rather than just lip servicing

Why on earth would I need to prove my experience or qualifications to you?

LOL Its YOU that thinks they know enough to train people, not me!

But just to humor you, how about this "I know how to use waterfed poles, and having been using them to clean windows for years" There, I am more qualified than you in that regard         

B) There is more to commercial window cleaning than just WFP, which you seem to highly focuse on, so I am taking it you just use WFP

You're absolutely correct, I only use WFP.  While I'd agree there is more to window cleaning than WFP, i would also say its currently the MOST IMPORTANT part of window cleaning, IMO anyway.  I would guess that all decent sized commercial window cleaning companies use WFP for the majority of their work.  And you, and your trainer have never used it.  That says a lot about your grasp of "the industry" that you claim to know so much about.

[ronnie paton]

C) You still haven't supplied us with your experience and qualifications...and this is why the NVQ is important within the industry as it is a tool to prove your competency rather than just lip servicing

Why on earth would I need to prove my experience or qualifications to you?

LOL Its YOU that thinks they know enough to train people, not me!

But just to humor you, how about this "I know how to use waterfed poles, and having been using them to clean windows for years" There, I am more qualified than you in that regard

B) There is more to commercial window cleaning than just WFP, which you seem to highly focuse on, so I am taking it you just use WFP

You're absolutely correct, I only use WFP. While I'd agree there is more to window cleaning than WFP, i would also say its currently the MOST IMPORTANT part of window cleaning, IMO anyway. I would guess that all decent sized commercial window cleaning companies use WFP for the majority of their work. And you, and your trainer have never used it. That says a lot about your grasp of "the industry" that you claim to know so much about.

what attituide you have!!!

so your a window cleaner but can only clean by using the WFP method ha haha

the guy hs come on here to help others but not to be questioned but he has answered your questions showing you is experience so why not divulge yours?? because your embarresed by your lack of it???

By the way the course was very good and helpd me with all the health saftey aspects of window cleaning

[tomy jackson]

MR WILLIS IS HILEY RESPKETED IN THE WINDOW CLEANING WORLD ,AND HE KOWS HIS STUFE ,THE ONLEY PIK I HAVE WITH HIM HE DISLIKES DINER ,

[drwindows]

I'm not embarassed by anything ronnie.  Here is my experience: I have been cleaning windows for years with water-fed pole.

There's nothing wrong with that, because I am a window cleaner.

There would be something wrong with it if I now said I could teach other people about all aspects of window cleaning, including those I have no experience of, like this guy is.

the guy hs come on here to help others but not to be questioned

Face facts, he has not come on here to help others at all, he has come on here to spam about his training thing.  He is a business, plain and simple.

If you don't want to be questioned, then a discussion forum is really the wrong place to come surely, isnt it?

[tomy jackson]

well iv got both

[ronnie paton]

I'm not embarassed by anything ronnie.  Here is my experience: I have been cleaning windows for years with water-fed pole.

There's nothing wrong with that, because I am a window cleaner.

There would be something wrong with it if I now said I could teach other people about all aspects of window cleaning, including those I have no experience of, like this guy is.

the guy hs come on here to help others but not to be questioned

Face facts, he has not come on here to help others at all, he has come on here to spam about his training thing.  He is a business, plain and simple.

If you don't want to be questioned, then a discussion forum is really the wrong place to come surely, isnt it?

were did he say he would teach you about cleaning windows???

the course teachs you about health and saftey for your self your staff and the public.
the course he provides helps others be more aware.th qualification can help there business too so i see that has helping others.

now you call your self a window cleaner but can you clean taditional??

he has answered your questions you havent answered is so maybe you should avoid open forums.

[trevor perry]

these qualifications prove to the client that you have some knowledge of safety issues etc, we all know that you cant beat experience but in the world we live in with lawsuits and the like it is important for clients to be able to prove you are competent to do the job and the main way of showing this is through training certificates, me personally have done allsorts of window cleaning from cradlework bosuns chair before abseilling, abseiling  cherrypicker work, 60ft ladderwork which is now illegal and wfp, i have found that although very experienced when speaking to health and safety officers they tend not to listen to your opinions unless you have the relative qualifications.
  as already stated there are ones with no training who know the job inside out and work very safely but sadly with current regulations this may not be enough i know personally i will need to take more courses next year not that i agree with them but because its what clients expect us to be doing.

[david willis]

As a final closure to our entry, we note your first comment on cleanitup.....I rest my case!

DR Windows first entry:

New to Cleanitup
« on: February 18, 2008, 09:02:43 AM »  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello fellow cleanitupers.

I have been viewing the forum for a while now but only just started contributing so I thought I might as well introduce myself.

My name is Dave and I have been window cleaning for 9 months following taking voluntary redundancy.  I use a 600 litre thermopure reach and wash system out of a renault trafic van.  I have never used ladders and I have the upmost respect for you boys who do because I am terrified of heights.  Ashamed to admit it but whenever it cant be avoided I let my girlfriend do the ladder work as she is really fearless (and much tougher than I am!).   I do almost all domestic window cleaning.

As for window cleaning, I love it (how sad is that) and so does my girl.  We work together 3 days a week, the rest of the time I work on my own while she does other, girl stuff like shopping and manicures etc.

I look forward to trying to help everyone with my comments, but I'm not all that experienced so please bear with me.

Thanks

Dave

[trevor perry]

As a final closure to our entry, we note your first comment on cleanitup.....I rest my case!

DR Windows first entry:

New to Cleanitup
« on: February 18, 2008, 09:02:43 AM »  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello fellow cleanitupers.

I have been viewing the forum for a while now but only just started contributing so I thought I might as well introduce myself.

My name is Dave and I have been window cleaning for 9 months following taking voluntary redundancy.  I use a 600 litre thermopure reach and wash system out of a renault trafic van.  I have never used ladders and I have the upmost respect for you boys who do because I am terrified of heights.  Ashamed to admit it but whenever it cant be avoided I let my girlfriend do the ladder work as she is really fearless (and much tougher than I am!).   I do almost all domestic window cleaning.

As for window cleaning, I love it (how sad is that) and so does my girl.  We work together 3 days a week, the rest of the time I work on my own while she does other, girl stuff like shopping and manicures etc.

I look forward to trying to help everyone with my comments, but I'm not all that experienced so please bear with me.

Thanks

Dave

thats brilliant may be he should let his girlfriend do his arguing from now on

[drwindows]

HA ha well done you can read old posts.  I have nothing to hide, like i said I (and my girl) have been window cleaning with waterfed pole for years, which is much more than you have.

I dont see why you think that this "rests your case" though, you havent revealed anything I didnt already tell you.  I am by no means a terrifically experienced window cleaner, but I have 100% more experience with WFP (which is THE MAIN METHOD OF WINDOW CLEANING) than you.

My girl (who doesnt window clean anymore) knows more about it than you too.

Why don't you go and find another forum to spam, and attack the memebrs there when they ask awkward questions that you cant answer.

[tomy jackson]

tos pot comes to mind .MR dr

[ronnie paton]

DR who said WFP is the main method?? i think youll find its far from

[trevor perry]

Even when drwindows put up that post he said he has been window cleaning for 9 months. How long does it take to get a NVQ!

Like I said experience (no matter how little) just pushed aside in favour of a piece of paper to hit government targets.

the courses help prevent bad work practices i do agree they are no substitute for experience but the problem with experience is that you may be performing tasks which at one time was acceptible but which are now totally illegal.
   window cleaning has changed dramatically over the last ten years and is still changing these courses help inform us how to run our businesses safely and legally under new legislation, we may not agree with some of the requirements but it is still our duty to abide by them.

[davidpitts]

Well I think its worthwhile doing the course, it does make you think about what can go wrong and what you can do to put it right (risk assesment) it doesn't teach you how to clean windows but it shows prospective customers that you are serious about window cleaning and run a proffesional outfit.      Tomy was it you that showed me your hot system in Leeds , if so i would like to have another look if thats ok Regards Dave.           

[Sean Dyer]

dr windows you are shooting yourself in the foot mate, so what if they havent done a million years plodding in the rain cleaning houses, the guys are there to get you a certificate based on the health and safety side of cleaning THE COURSE DOES NOT TEACH YOU HOW TO SQUEEGEE A WINDOW its about cleaning safely at height

If you dont wanna do it fine, just dont go knockinh it, you end up sounding like the plonker my friend, and dont always go on EXPERIENCE,  i know lots of old cleaners, but it doesnt mean they are professional, insured , safe or anything else, just they have been picking up bad habits and doing things wrong for a long time, shame they dont do an nvq and learn the right way

ANy serious window cleaning business needs eventually to get some PROOF of competence

otherwise serious clients wont take a second look

not talking council houses here, but big jobs!

[Sean Dyer]

hand bags at dawn

Nice interview on talk sport

Did he get interviewed?

[tomy jackson]

yes that wos me david

[D woods]

I have known Andy Willis for years and he is very knowledgeable about all things
window cleaning, especially commercial window cleaning.

[dazmond]

DR WINDOWS i think u need to calm down pal.ive been WC for 15 yrs TRAD on domestics only.i use TRAD poles,ladderstoppers and mitts.i dont need these nvq things as ive got common sense and experience! ;Dbut i think when it comes to commercial they are a good thing in general just not for the work i do!ur bad attitude will get u nowhere fellah


best wishes dazmond