[Tosh]

I've got to say that I'm finding I've lost a few of my best commercial accounts due to the credit crunch and I've got a few under threat of being lost at the moment.

Luckily enough, 90% of my work is domestic, and we've been targetting 'higher end' residential work in the past few years; which we prefer (higher end domestic work is £20+ to us; but we're very micky mouse).

I'm just wondering how you guys are getting on with your current commercial accounts given the current economic climate?

[gerard mcmanus]

I've been lucky all my comercial has been fine but lost one or two customers this month, fortunately small accounts but gained about 30 so really isnt affecting me that much. One or two have also went 8 weekly which is fine as well, I would rather do a customer less frequent than not at all and let then go to a competitor.

[S.A.J]

I've got to say that I'm finding I've lost a few of my best commercial accounts due to the credit crunch and I've got a few under threat of being lost at the moment.

Luckily enough, 90% of my work is domestic, and we've been targetting 'higher end' residential work in the past few years; which we prefer (higher end domestic work is £20+ to us; but we're very micky mouse).

I'm just wondering how you guys are getting on with your current commercial accounts given the current economic climate?

Only lost one this year because of them getting a national contractor in (Anchor ), apart from that things are good on the commercial and residential front.

Started a new retail job today and just priced up anther commercial unit, picked up 10 new commercial this year already! And still have 8 big quotes out there.

So not affecting me (Yet )

Stuart

www.sajwindowcleaners.co.uk

[johns window kleen]

Havent lost any commercial jobs through the credit crunch, but i've dumped a few I didnt like or want anymore.
I wont go looking for any new commercial at present, and in all honesty think that whilst domestic is less lucrative it's the better bet.

[ducky]

havent lost any. picket up 27 shops plus there warehouse that was cos my pal never wanted to do them and passet it on to me.he doesnt want to travel to do them .

[leapstallbuildings]

I've got to say that I'm finding I've lost a few of my best commercial accounts due to the credit crunch and I've got a few under threat of being lost at the moment.

Luckily enough, 90% of my work is domestic, and we've been targetting 'higher end' residential work in the past few years; which we prefer (higher end domestic work is £20+ to us; but we're very micky mouse).

I'm just wondering how you guys are getting on with your current commercial accounts given the current economic climate?

Lost a £34 x 6 weekly commercial fairly recently.  They became terrible payers though so I already had them earmarked for the drop once I got paid (I did).

[collins82002]

just pick up a care home today if things got to plan i'll get the chain of them 12 in total i think

Happy Days

[sparklebright]

i've had a few go a Barratts shoes went pop, another high end shoe shop went from 3 x £8 cleans a week to one, Debenhams have cut back on their window cleaning, so all in all I am down £700 a month.
Or I would be if I hadn't bought someones window round. So I am up but not by much even though I shelled out for a load of work  
But on the good news front have increased a canopy cleaning job I do, and have picked a new commercial contract today, only a little one worth £100 a quarter and several domestic jobs. I think I'll concentrate more on resi again.

I agree with an earlier poster residential isn't as lucrative but probably more reliable in the present climate
But I do feel optimistic things aren't dreadful

[matt]

in the past 5 weeks i have lost just over 9 K of work for the year, all commercial and have reduced the freq of the cleans

so i am about 800 quid a month down, it was all done early or late in the day, i still have my domestic houses, so all is not lost, but 9 K of work still hurt

[gerard mcmanus]

woww, that’ll take a couple of months to pick back up. You must have had quite a bit of commercial % to residential

[mr D]

domestic is manic I'm turning new customers away coz I just dont have the time as for commercial? I'm like you Tosh 90% domestic. the few commercial jobs are getting funny, likely to go down I think.

I much prefer domestic work I can never understand w/c only doing commercial work. I dont even think its more lucrative.

my old man wont clean a house unless its £40+ silly if you ask me.

[matt]

woww, that’ll take a couple of months to pick back up. You must have had quite a bit of commercial % to residential

to be honest i dont think they will ever go back to what they used to have

and i am not in any hurry to replace them,  i think the days of earning silly money on commercial jobs have gone for a while

[s.hughes]

in the past 5 weeks i have lost just over 9 K of work for the year, all commercial and have reduced the freq of the cleans

so i am about 800 quid a month down, it was all done early or late in the day, i still have my domestic houses, so all is not lost, but 9 K of work still hurt

Sorry to hear that Matt.

[matt]

in the past 5 weeks i have lost just over 9 K of work for the year, all commercial and have reduced the freq of the cleans

so i am about 800 quid a month down, it was all done early or late in the day, i still have my domestic houses, so all is not lost, but 9 K of work still hurt

Sorry to hear that Matt.

no drama mate, as i said, its only the work i do early in the morning / late at night , it pays for my lifestyle, i have explained to my 6yr old that it might not be the norm to holiday in orlando / disney every 18 months, she understood which helped my mood no end

all is not lost though, i still have my domestic round, life goes on

[WCE]

Well I cant say I've lost any commercial (apart from the build cleans but in a lot of ways I was glad to see the back of them)  despite having some poorly performing names in there and spent yesterday looking at a contract for a new shopping centre - They want 135 shops to be cleaned (along with the entrance and low level glass on a daily basis! There is also a hotel, the high level and 3 roofs to be done regularly. That contract would more than replace the missing build cleans - funny world isn't it?   

[Tosh]

and spent yesterday looking at a contract for a new shopping centre - They want 135 shops to be cleaned (along with the entrance and low level glass on a daily basis!

I'm not sure I believe this post!

Who in their right mind would want 135 shop windows cleaned every day?

That would be plain daft!

[Ian_Giles]

Mmm....I find that hard to believe too, in 26/7 years of commercial window cleaning I've only ever come across one shop that wanted their windows cleaning daily...that was Citereo....er..nope...what the hell was their name!! ahh, ciro cetero? something like that, big chain, went bust...go figure!

I've lost quite a few commercial accounts, either through them cutting back on expenses or going bust or retiring at end of the lease, the problem is that no one then moves into them as the rent and rates are extortionate!!

I've also been asked to price up an account on a local trading estate (newhouse trading estate for the locals!) as they are looking for cheaper quotes, it'll  be the first one I've got to supply risk assessment and method statements for...which is a sod because I've not needed to do them until now...sigh...means I'll have to post a thread  for one of you guys to email me a template I can crib off

Residential work is increasing though, but perhaps not at the same rate as before; like Tosh I prefer higher end domestic where possible, the last few quoted for have been (from latest to earliest) £70, £18 and £45, which helps offset a few of the commercial losses.

Ian

[AuRavelling79]

Holding up at the mo'

[Tosh]

I've also been asked to price up an account on a local trading estate (newhouse trading estate for the locals!) as they are looking for cheaper quotes, it'll  be the first one I've got to supply risk assessment and method statements for...which is a sod because I've not needed to do them until now...sigh...means I'll have to post a thread  for one of you guys to email me a template I can crib off


Ian

Ian,

I'd rather you stick in a really high price for this one; IT'S ONE OF MINE!

And the only reason you have to supply a method statment and risk assessment is because I told the manager that that's what she needed; plus public liabilty insurance.

It's a small World, isn't it?

Don't be mean, Ian, please!

[WCE]

and spent yesterday looking at a contract for a new shopping centre - They want 135 shops to be cleaned (along with the entrance and low level glass on a daily basis!

I'm not sure I believe this post!

Who in their right mind would want 135 shop windows cleaned every day?

That would be plain daft!

Mmm....I find that hard to believe too, in 26/7 years of commercial window cleaning I've only ever come across one shop that wanted their windows cleaning daily...that was Citereo....er..nope...what the hell was their name!! ahh, ciro cetero? something like that, big chain, went bust...go figure!

I've lost quite a few commercial accounts, either through them cutting back on expenses or going bust or retiring at end of the lease, the problem is that no one then moves into them as the rent and rates are extortionate!!

I've also been asked to price up an account on a local trading estate (newhouse trading estate for the locals!) as they are looking for cheaper quotes, it'll  be the first one I've got to supply risk assessment and method statements for...which is a sod because I've not needed to do them until now...sigh...means I'll have to post a thread  for one of you guys to email me a template I can crib off

Residential work is increasing though, but perhaps not at the same rate as before; like Tosh I prefer higher end domestic where possible, the last few quoted for have been (from latest to earliest) £70, £18 and £45, which helps offset a few of the commercial losses.

Ian

Well you think what you like. I was there yesterday and looked at it so I know that it's real  Anyway to answer Tosh the shopping Centre I am talking about has it given the responsibility of the external shop windows in the new development to the facilities management company because the owning company decided to include it in the lease. Some of the shops included are held by the nationals but this will be an exception. It's not a millions miles from you towards my way and will be last of it type likely to be built so really the last chance to get in on a contract of this type from the start!

Mmm....I find that hard to believe too, in 26/7 years of commercial window cleaning I've only ever come across one shop that wanted their windows cleaning daily...that was Citereo....er..nope...what the hell was their name!! ahh, ciro cetero? something like that, big chain, went bust...go figure!

Ian

   

Ian as I explained above it's not one chain  

I've also been asked to price up an account on a local trading estate (newhouse trading estate for the locals!) as they are looking for cheaper quotes, it'll  be the first one I've got to supply risk assessment and method statements for...which is a sod because I've not needed to do them until now...sigh...means I'll have to post a thread  for one of you guys to email me a template I can crib off

Ian

No offence but without these you wouldn't be eligible for this job. I am quite surprised that you have never had to produce these before I certainly have in the 5 years I have been going many times. I send out  at least general examples
 of the risk assessment  and a method statement with all quotes.  

[WCE]

Also tosh I meant to say with regard to the external situation it was a bit like you had with OCS a while back, The shops are responsible for the internal windows.

[Moderator David@stives]

 believe him , take the Trafford centre for example, i might be wrong , but i bet the window cleaning is part of the rent and it is a daily requirement to keep the shop frontages clean.

M@S until recently was a daily clean, now it is 3 times a week, well it was its not now, they havent got a window cleaner

[matt]

i had a phone call off another of mine today, asking how often i clean ( like they couldnt check back on the invoices  : : just lazy i guess )

i expect them to cut back aswell now

[Tosh]

WCE,

Someone at some stage will say, 'Waaaaay', why are we having our shop windows cleaned every day?  And HOW MUCH!!!!

Then things will change.

If I were you, I'd suggest a more reasonable cleaning frequency before you start; especially if it's in a Mall; like the new one in Bristol.

[Moderator David@stives]

Tosh

It could be a requirement of the shopping precinct, if they left dirty fingerprints and kids snotty noses on the glass then it could lower the tone.

If its done every day it can be very cheap, after all you are doing is keeping a window cleaners eye on things.

[WCE]

Tosh

It could be a requirement of the shopping precinct, if they left dirty fingerprints and kids snotty noses on the glass then it could lower the tone.

If its done every day it can be very cheap, after all you are doing is keeping a window cleaners eye on things.

Thats exactly it Dave their words were "we want it to look like the Queens about to visit every day"

WCE,

Someone at some stage will say, 'Waaaaay', why are we having our shop windows cleaned every day?  And HOW MUCH!!!!

Then things will change.

If I were you, I'd suggest a more reasonable cleaning frequency before you start; especially if it's in a Mall; like the new one in Bristol.

As both Dave and I explained they haver no choice it's offered as part of the lease package so is a requirement, as far as the tennant is concerned it's part of the service charge THEY must pay.     

[Tosh]

As both Dave and I explained they haver no choice it's offered as part of the lease package so is a requirement, as far as the tennant is concerned it's part of the service charge THEY must pay.     

And as both common sense and I will explain, the tennants will have a say in what they're charged.

They will disagree about their charges as a whole, and when they see a window cleaner cleaning clean windows every day, they will speak up about it.

Don't you think the tennants will have meetings with the managers?  Do you really think the managers can do what they want carte blanch?

Other shopping malls (and I know this for a fact) do not have their windows cleaned every day.

[WCE]

As both Dave and I explained they haver no choice it's offered as part of the lease package so is a requirement, as far as the tennant is concerned it's part of the service charge THEY must pay.     

And as both common sense and I will explain, the tennants will have a say in what they're charged.

They will disagree about their charges as a whole, and when they see a window cleaner cleaning clean windows every day, they will speak up about it.

Don't you think the tennants will have meetings with the managers?  Do you really think the managers can do what they want carte blanch?

Other shopping malls (and I know this for a fact) do not have their windows cleaned every day.

Tosh the service charge is payable whatever the rent is and is in the lease agreement. Other shopping centres might not have daily cleans but this one is a biggie and aiming to be a landmark for the area it's being built. This isn't your run of the mill mall in a city centre. Think Merry Hill or to use Dave's example the Trafford centre and your on the right lines. 

[Moderator David@stives]

Tosh

have you ever been in the Trafford centre or similar, they are all top end national retailers and they will know the score before they sign on the dotted line.

[AuRavelling79]

Newhouse Industrial Estate eh?

I work about a mile or two from there I think I'll go and canvass - I remember Ian Giles coming into my patch Easton in Gordano and working ...

And as for it being Tosh's custy, well I need to show Alex what a good customer I am so I need extra work for that wonderful pole of his! So I think I'll undercut big time.






























































 

J/K guys! I might be a mile away but it's a bridge toll too far and I don't want to upset the Demon Dwarves of Deepest Devauden. (Ian and Tosh!)

[Moderator David@stives]

Interesting fact £3500 Million pounds was spent in the Trafford Centre last year.

that is £3'500'000'000

[seandyer2003]

believe him , take the Trafford centre for example, i might be wrong , but i bet the window cleaning is part of the rent and it is a daily requirement to keep the shop frontages clean.

M@S until recently was a daily clean, now it is 3 times a week, well it was its not now, they havent got a window cleaner

I live only 20 mins from trafford centre- id love the contract for shop fronts but i reckon the cleaners just have someone who do it for them , or employ their own, theres alot of shop frontage in there!!!

[leapstallbuildings]

believe him , take the Trafford centre for example, i might be wrong , but i bet the window cleaning is part of the rent and it is a daily requirement to keep the shop frontages clean.

M@S until recently was a daily clean, now it is 3 times a week, well it was its not now, they havent got a window cleaner

What happened there then Dave.  I remember you saying you did the M & S windows.  Did you dump them or did they cancel?

[Moderator David@stives]

The contractors have gone bust, I have don the same M&S store for 3 different contractors now, just waiting for the 4th

[Ian_Giles]

Newhouse Industrial Estate eh?

I work about a mile or two from there I think I'll go and canvass - I remember Ian Giles coming into my patch Easton in Gordano and working ...

And as for it being Tosh's custy, well I need to show Alex what a good customer I am so I need extra work for that wonderful pole of his! So I think I'll undercut big time.

Hi Malc, yeah, we have a good one down there, a private house worth £200 a pop!

The one on the newhouse industrial site is getting in at least 3 new quotes as they are trying to cut costs...sign of the times I guess
I am not that bothered about it for that very reason, Tosh will probably lose it if someone comes in with a quote significantly lower than his current price.
I did have generic method statements and risk assessments, but on another computer, buried somewhere on a faulty hard drive, and so far I've had little or no need for them, not all companies ask for them...it is of course increasing all the time though.

Ian

[Tosh]

Ian,

The lady (Wendy) is asking for method/risk assessments because I told her she should ask for them; and PL insurance too.

I'm glad she took my advice.

She says that she'll let me know the prices of the quotes she gets so she can see if I can match them; and I probably will, I like the job; and I have priced it well.

But, be a mate, just phone her and stick a high price in; tell her if she accepts your high price then you'll submit the Risk and Method statement.

I'll buy you a beer, and not remind you about the pricing help I gave with that town centre office by the Castle or the lass who lives in the mansion; Mrs Caroll!

 

[eddie d]

im sure ian will do the honourable thing.
 

[Tosh]

im sure ian will do the honourable thing.
 

Yeh, he'll quote £50 and stand back and laugh when I'm asked if I can match that price!

 

[AuRavelling79]

Ian,

The lady (Wendy) is asking for method/risk assessments because I told her she should ask for them; and PL insurance too.

I'm glad she took my advice.

She says that she'll let me know the prices of the quotes she gets so she can see if I can match them; and I probably will, I like the job; and I have priced it well.

But, be a mate, just phone her and stick a high price in; tell her if she accepts your high price then you'll submit the Risk and Method statement.

I'll buy you a beer, and not remind you about the pricing help I gave with that town centre office by the Castle or the lass who lives in the mansion; Mrs Caroll!

 

Give me her number and I'll stick in a high price and you can buy me a beer too!

[Ian_Giles]

im sure ian will do the honourable thing.
 

Yeh, he'll quote £50 and stand back and laugh when I'm asked if I can match that price!

 

Wish I'd known it was your account before I went down to look at the bloody thing 

I told her my price would be £80, thought that was a slightly high quote, but as I said, I wasn't interested in going in cheap to get the work as they'll probably do the same thing in a years time.
And I reckon that at £80 it can't be that far different from what you are already charging Tosh?

I'll just be a long time putting in the quote
You won't have to worry about matching my quote anytime soon!

Talking of Kate CArrol, I'm doing her windows next week!


Ian

[Tosh]

And I reckon that at £80 it can't be that far different from what you are already charging Tosh?

£80!!!!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I've lost the job!

Serious!

 

[elite mike]

not me tosh ,ian

[Ian_Giles]

And I reckon that at £80 it can't be that far different from what you are already charging Tosh?

£80!!!!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I've lost the job!


Serious!

 

Don't panic! lol, I won't be putting in a quote!

That is only an hour or so's work, outside takes you, what? 20 minutes tops? Inside all trad but very easy and you would do that comfortably inside 40 minutes!!

But as said, they won't be getting a quote off me, that would be the same for Squeaky, Tomo, Sean and so on.
If it was some company I didn't know then I would happily quote, or Simon of course! I like taking work off him!

Ian

[AuRavelling79]

I've just come back from quoting this Newhouse Industrial Estate job - I said £75, provided risk assessment and insurance copies. I told her my grand-dad was Welsh and showed her that I had my own front teeth.

edited to add:-

I got the job! email just received! Whoohooo!

[WCE]

Here you go Tosh Heres a bit of an insight to what lengths shopping centres go to with their cleaning. http://publishing.yudu.com/Freedom/Akenu/ShoppingCentreMagazi/resources/14.htm
Pete