[wizclean]

hi all first post veteran wfp window cleaner.
dont want an argument on whats safe and whats not regarding ionics crash test system .
i want your opinons on a custom fit tank that fits in a vw t4 it fills the floor space and holds 600 ltr although only being about 25 cms in height less than most wheel arches. i think that this is probably the safest design of tank one it has a low centre of gravity but also the force in an accident would not be on your back or head as with much taller tanks. i am trying to decide what to do because i now employ some body and feel im responsible for making sure i do everything to ensure his safety while working and travelling between jobs . your advice is all welcome

[Alex Gardiner]

Inherently a low level tank is always going to be safer.

Lower centre of gravity, will help the van's handling, which may prevent an accident. Low level makes the tank easier to fasten/strap down as you are not trying to stop the tank 'falling over' in an accident. In reality the tank would not be able to slide into the cab area as it is too large just to move forward so would have to 'break' to do so, this would allow the water to dissipate which would reduce the problem instantly. You would still need to ensure that the tank could not move forward, with a bulkhead or restraining bar/strap. Ideally you would also need something to keep it down in position.

In an accident I would always rather have the type of tank you are describing behind me than any upright system however it is fixed.

An added bonus is that you virtually have a whole van area available for carrying loads as well.

[wizclean]

i was thinking of putting an angle iron frame all the way round and bolting it down followed up by a false floor to attachthe hose reels on etc . i wanted to do this before i had ionics so called mag turn up beore christmas which just had me thinking of the best way to go forward .
thanks for your input

[SherwoodCleaningSe]

On a downside though, when the water gets low and you park on a hill you might end up with no water, depending where the outlet is and how your parked.  It would be exaggerated with a flat tank like this compared to a tall tank.  But it's a problem that can be worked around , ie parking one side of the van on the path.

Simon.

[wizclean]

good point simon
it has been designed so the floor of the tank is angled so when its fiited in the van i have got to make a wedge type shape to support the floor. it will look perfectly flat to view but a a good inch drop over its length.
 on top of this it will have two outlets in both corners that feed into one t piece then to the pump, so what ever is at either side of the van can be used also.
thanks 

[matt]

i was thinking of putting an angle iron frame all the way round and bolting it down followed up by a false floor to attachthe hose reels on etc . i wanted to do this before i had ionics so called mag turn up beore christmas which just had me thinking of the best way to go forward .
thanks for your input

sounds cracking, it will not move about, it cannot fly forward as it would be straped down and it would be able to stand up anyways, as its too big

this was my my plan when i had the T4, as i was going to convert it into a " day van / campervan / trips to the beach van " ontop of the tank, a bit of a multiuse van, i wasnt going to make it the full width of the van, as my plan was to store all the poles etc etc under the floor aswell

i never got around to it, as i had to admit to myself, i have little spare time to do it, well whilst i have the 1yr old home, when she starts school, then i might

[wizclean]

its from a guy based in oldam was looking to go this way because it makes more sense being able to use the floor space on top.  found his website and he looks like he does a very tidy job. made a few for window cleaners already.
Got a mate who does enginering so he said he could make the frame for us , angle iron is quite cheap but painted looks ok and my brother is a chippy so ill get him to do the base for the tank.
 good idea about the poles because mine are stuck on the side at the mo and i dont have a full bulkhead so when braking hard they fly over your shoulder.
cheers for the advice

[matt]

put the pole space on the passenger side and you can carry the false floor all the way though under the seats 

[Spruce]

good point simon
it has been designed so the floor of the tank is angled so when its fiited in the van i have got to make a wedge type shape to support the floor. it will look perfectly flat to view but a a good inch drop over its length.
 on top of this it will have two outlets in both corners that feed into one t piece then to the pump, so what ever is at either side of the van can be used also.
thanks 

Hi
The trouble is that with 2 outlets 1 will be out of the water so the pump will suck air.
Spruce

[David Slater]

Inherently a low level tank is always going to be safer.

Lower centre of gravity, will help the van's handling, which may prevent an accident. Low level makes the tank easier to fasten/strap down as you are not trying to stop the tank 'falling over' in an accident. In reality the tank would not be able to slide into the cab area as it is too large just to move forward so would have to 'break' to do so, this would allow the water to dissipate which would reduce the problem instantly. You would still need to ensure that the tank could not move forward, with a bulkhead or restraining bar/strap. Ideally you would also need something to keep it down in position.

In an accident I would always rather have the type of tank you are describing behind me than any upright system however it is fixed.

An added bonus is that you virtually have a whole van area available for carrying loads as well.

It sounds like wizclean has given this a lot of thought. Its sounds good and well thought out.

I wouldnt be too sure about 1,433lb's of mass (650 Ltr's of water) being dissipated quite so quickly though. The water wouldn't have chance to separate and dissipate at the moment of impact which would cause structural damage and quite likely, it would enter the cab area and take your lower legs off before it dissipates into a large splash of water.

Think about an aircraft hitting the sea - the airframe will buckle and distort before the water has chance to 'give' and allow the aircraft to settle.

Here's a very silly example  ...but demonstrates the principle  http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ygtX2miwU5I

Its something to do with Newtons Law....I'll have to ask my dad for a proper explanation  :

Ideal world - something to take the initial 'shock' and allow the force of the water to dissipate.....but I think we've already discussed this 

[wizclean]

cheers that is exactly the sort of answer i want and possibly need like i said in my original post this is to do with my responsibilties as an employer and although i think this tank would be much safer than a taller tank im still not 100 % convinced as to what to do. i spoke to shaun at brodex yesterday and he said they are doing some kind of crash testing in feburary before cleaning show . so maybe i should wait a little while longer before parting with my hard earned cash.