[macmac]

Ewan, which hot system do you have?
What system do you run & is the tank security crash tested?

Tony

Bump

?? well?

[Nathanael Jones]

What Do I need an L5 for?

For when you START cleaning windows Ewan,...

[David Slater]

Sorry guys, missed this post - I've been a bit down lately (for obvious reasons!)

The pictures of my hot set up we very kindly brought over to CIU by Jaykie. You can see them on this thread - http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=67744.0

Ewan or NWH (or anyone else!),

Would you care to show me how or why my set up is "dangerous"?

Would you care to point me a Regulation or ACOP or legislation it breaches?....obviously you'll be able to put a HSE LINK up to confirm your thoughts?


NWH -   You'll notice I didnt hang the heater off the back doors!!.... Did you really do that?  

I would ask your friends down the pub exactly WHICH qualifications they hold in H&S management which enables them to offer advice?

A policeman 'knows the law'....but that doesnt make him a lawyer. Same thing applies with engineers and firemen. They need SPECIFIC training in H&S and a good understanding of the relevant Regs to be able to offer advice.


Ewan -  I can think of a dozen reasons why ANY "bought" (or indeed a DIY set up) can and will fall foul of the HSE.

1. Poles
Repetitive task: upper body/limb strains. Long term health implications.
Manual Handling: poles being used incorrectly - back injuries (chronic and acute implications)

2. Van
Bulkhead: as chrisyg rightly says - no bulkhead and any unsecured equipment will act as a missile in the event of an accident.

3. System
Every "bought system" I have seen has no ergonomics for the end user. Every one of them requires the user to lean/step in to the vehicle to operate controls - this is a possible breach of WAHR and also potential for chronic/acute back injuries.

....and we havent even touched on whether the system is hot or cold!

I didnt go to all this time and effort designing my system without checking the legalities of carrying gas.

I did my research. I posted up every phone number and contact detail including website links and their answers to my questions. It was thorough. I asked relevant questions. I explained fully what and how the system was to be used.  I took me the best part of a week to get all the answers I required. Its all posted on another site.

I have nothing to hide. And nothing to sell. I did it because we should ALL do our own research.

As I explained in my posts (on the other forum) this is who I spoke to, this is the telephone number, this is the website - dont take my word for it. Go and check for yourself.

The problems arise when you have people like NWH hanging heaters off the back doors and then wondering why gas is given a bad name!!!

If any seller of a diesel HOT system would care to post their views on why my DIY gas system is unsafe, please feel free  

There is a deafening SILENCE from that quarter dont you think?  

EWAN or NWH - if you want to ask specific questions or have any questions about why I chose this particular set-up or design, please feel free to post and I'll answer asap.

[windowwashers]

Sorry guys, missed this post - I've been a bit down lately (for obvious reasons!)

The pictures of my hot set up we very kindly brought over to CIU by Jaykie. You can see them on this thread - http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=67744.0

Ewan or NWH (or anyone else!),

Would you care to show me how or why my set up is "dangerous"?

Would you care to point me a Regulation or ACOP or legislation it breaches?....obviously you'll be able to put a HSE LINK up to confirm your thoughts?


NWH -   You'll notice I didnt hang the heater off the back doors!!.... Did you really do that?  

I would ask your friends down the pub exactly WHICH qualifications they hold in H&S management which enables them to offer advice?

A policeman 'knows the law'....but that doesnt make him a lawyer. Same thing applies with engineers and firemen. They need SPECIFIC training in H&S and a good understanding of the relevant Regs to be able to offer advice.


Ewan -  I can think of a dozen reasons why ANY "bought" (or indeed a DIY set up) can and will fall foul of the HSE.

1. Poles
Repetitive task: upper body/limb strains. Long term health implications.
Manual Handling: poles being used incorrectly - back injuries (chronic and acute implications)

2. Van
Bulkhead: as chrisyg rightly says - no bulkhead and any unsecured equipment will act as a missile in the event of an accident.

3. System
Every "bought system" I have seen has no ergonomics for the end user. Every one of them requires the user to lean/step in to the vehicle to operate controls - this is a possible breach of WAHR and also potential for chronic/acute back injuries.

....and we havent even touched on whether the system is hot or cold!

I didnt go to all this time and effort designing my system without checking the legalities of carrying gas.

I did my research. I posted up every phone number and contact detail including website links and their answers to my questions. It was thorough. I asked relevant questions. I explained fully what and how the system was to be used.  I took me the best part of a week to get all the answers I required. Its all posted on another site.

I have nothing to hide. And nothing to sell. I did it because we should ALL do our own research.

As I explained in my posts (on the other forum) this is who I spoke to, this is the telephone number, this is the website - dont take my word for it. Go and check for yourself.

The problems arise when you have people like NWH hanging heaters off the back doors and then wondering why gas is given a bad name!!!

If any seller of a diesel HOT system would care to post their views on why my DIY gas system is unsafe, please feel free  

There is a deafening SILENCE from that quarter dont you think?  

EWAN or NWH - if you want to ask specific questions or have any questions about why I chose this particular set-up or design, please feel free to post and I'll answer asap.

I would like to know what the "other forum is" please

info@windowwashers.co.uk


thanks in advance.

Ian

[David Slater]

David

If other’s go to the same length’s as you, what would be the final bill?

My system cost LESS than £500 - thats everything! from the flooring to the Harris pole  ...not just the HOT bit, but the whole shebang! pumps, pole, heater, tanks, DI vessels, tubing, clips, gas tank, radio controlled varisteam, floor anchors.... the works!

My posts are on the *ahem*... other forum. Those guys watched and helped me design it with their input. One of my first posts was from the day I bought the van so it sort of shows progress from that point onwards.

Could anybody do this? No.....NWH proved that point by hanging his heater off the back doors!!

It does take a little bit of thought and it does require a knowledge of engineering....but not that much!!

Saying you can afford to "buy a system" so thats what you're going to do is a mugs game - ANY business needs to control costs.

A young business needs so much more beyond "a system"....you need advertising, priniting, uniforms, phones, accountants, H&S training ect ect etc...

You need to control costs and you need a system that is 'workable' for you....and safe.

I would argue most manufacturers churn out 'standard systems' and shoe-horn them into our vehicles. This isnt always the best option.

[matt]

David Slater

sorry about your van

i missed the post last week, i  havent been online for a few days with my hernia op

did you get it back ? ? ? ? 

[David Slater]

David Slater

sorry about your van

i missed the post last week, i  havent been online for a few days with my hernia op

did you get it back ? ? ? ? 

Not yet.

The police reckon it will be parked on a quiet street somewhere within a mile or two - once they realised it didnt have tools (drills, srewdrivers etc etc) in the back, they would have just parked it up and walked off.

As the battery was flat evedn the radio was flashing "CODE" so that would have useless to them as well.

As the policeman said, its not likes its a little audi sportscar....its a diesel van, so not much point showing it off to all your scumbag mates

Theres no 'street cred' in Vivaros  

I'm confident I'll get it back unharmed.

[David Slater]

David

Cheaper than I thought, (I saw the photo’s) very tidy and it does look good. Hope you get your van back in one piece or the insurance payout promptly.

Are able to answer this question.

How does it compare and differ from of the shelf heaters made for window cleaners?
 

Shelf heater?

You've got me there Ewan!!!

Whats a shelf heater?

[matt]

David

Cheaper than I thought, (I saw the photo’s) very tidy and it does look good. Hope you get your van back in one piece or the insurance payout promptly.

Are able to answer this question.

How does it compare and differ from of the shelf heaters made for window cleaners?
 

Shelf heater?

You've got me there Ewan!!!

Whats a shelf heater?

you really need to get one of them though, you put your lunch on it and the heater warms your sarnies, Mmmmmmmmmm toasted cheese sarnies 

[jaykie]

I must say David that some of the DIY i see on here does make me chuckle as id be embarresed to turn up and get it out my van or it looks far too dangerous, this is my own opinion on DIY and i wouldnt knock people for doing it,but I think your system is in a different class to this, and more like a pro system,

[David Slater]

David, hope that clarifies

How does it compare and differ with professional supplied and installed hot wfp systems made for window cleaners from a supplier?
 

In what way?

I dont want to sound all cryptic and mysterious but you need to ask specific questions to get to a specific answer......not unlike H&S  

Do you mean - how does it compare to an 'off the shelf' purchase?


OK, here we go -

1. It has ergonomics built around the working environment (specifically, the Vivaro LWB van)...and not just any old van. We all own different vans, so why are we all buying the same sytems??...this is poor H&S  

2. It will run more efficiently (lower carbon emission) than a diesel system

3. ERGONOMICS (sadly lacking in 'off the shelf' set ups I feel) - you do not need to enter/lean into the vehicle to control any part of the system (shutting it down/starting it up)

4. DI vessels - positioned to be Reasonably Practicable for access (clear area, no obstructions - combined with staff training in manual handling of vessels)

5. CO2 sensor (not visible in photo) audible alarm in the event of CO2 build up - exit vehicle and refer to Fire Action Plan

6. Smoke Alarm (heat) - not visible in photo - exit vehicle and refer to Fire Action Plan

...should I go on?



Or have you got a specific question Ewan?

[David Slater]

I must say David that some of the DIY i see on here does make me chuckle as id be embarresed to turn up and get it out my van or it looks far too dangerous, this is my own opinion on DIY and i wouldnt knock people for doing it,but I think your system is in a different class to this, and more like a pro system,

Thank you Jaykie,

I must admit, I was pleasantly surprised by the response your topic got on my DIY set-up (when you posted my system pics).

I always had CIU down as being a bit, well...Ionics centric, as so many guys had spent so much on their set ups, they needed to justify their purchase!

I feel I owe an apology to the members of CIU.... Maybe I was a bit too one sided in my views and always read the 'negatives' and not so much the 'positives'.

[David Slater]

I must say David that some of the DIY i see on here does make me chuckle as id be embarresed to turn up and get it out my van or it looks far too dangerous, this is my own opinion on DIY and i wouldnt knock people for doing it,but I think your system is in a different class to this, and more like a pro system,

Yeah, I hear what you're saying Jaykie,

I've seen some pictures and felt it best not to comment. They dont do the DIY route much good in long term.

I hope I've shown that IT IS possible to create something professional and workable and (maybe!) even better than what is offered for sale.

If nothing else, I hope a few guys will look at my pictures and think - I can do better than that!!!

That way, we'll all grow together 


I know theres guys out there could better my system......




 

[Clive McDonald]

But your system wasn't DIY it was a pro system as far as i could tell. Everyone who has seen it is was impressed and your dad must be a proper Richard Feynman type.

As for the topic itself- the cheapest- this is a bit silly.


In some respects the 2.7k bolt on doesn't compare that well to an ionics for say 8k, where you get the lot.

[David Slater]

But your system wasn't DIY it was a pro system as far as i could tell. Everyone who has seen it is was impressed and your dad must be a proper Richard Feynman type.

As for the topic itself- the cheapest- this is a bit silly.


In some respects the 2.7k bolt on doesn't compare that well to an ionics for say 8k, where you get the lot.

DWC,

I'll go along with that - 'the cheapest' is not a good question to ask. Just wait til I email my dad these replies....his head will be bigger than a balloon!!


The 'Most Suitable'...might have been a better question to ask.

Yes, he's a retired aerospace engineer - he has an excellent understanding of how things work, and how things react with force/gravity/objects!!!....no doubt why he laughed his head off at Ionics 30mph "crash test" 

My system wasnt 'pro' in is as much as it wasnt built for sale - it was built for me - With my ideas for how I would grow, and eventually the system/van would be passed down to staff and how they would use it safely.

Ewan -

If you want a specific answer then please feel free to ask a specific question.

I understand you dont have much H&S training and may indeed be a new entrant into window cleaning - thats not a problem.

Ask your questions and I'll try and answer them in the most basic terms so you can understand.

If you'd prefer to email me privately, that's fine....I;m not trying to embarrass you Ewan





...You're doing that all on your own 

 







 

 

[David Slater]

David, no you don’t need to go on.

That is a specific question, you are just having trouble answering, I would presume because you don’t have a clear answer, unfortunately.

I think most would agree yours is one of the better diy hot systems if not the best.

For all your understanding you don’t know what makes the benchmark for hot systems from suppliers and why they are chosen over the L5 or any other.

That cancels out any chance of your system being comparable in any way including H&S.

Bloody hell Ewan...you're a strange bloke 

Anyone might think you're a seller in disguise!

I HAVE answered your question.

What else would you like to know??

[jaykie]

There is 2 types of DIY and i believe yours is the good version, I would never mention names as i believe some of these people are good on certain topics and if i was to say on here what i really think of there set up then future posts by myself would be continuasly made to look negative and id always be jumped on with every post i write as thats what seems to happen on here, I myself will have a diy set up in my next van but i personally will not do it as i got a mate who done his own and like yours it looks very pro, sourced parts from all over he place, got one of then skid tanks which i think seem very good,

[David Slater]

There is 2 types of DIY and i believe yours is the good version, I would never mention names as i believe some of these people are good on certain topics and if i was to say on here what i really think of there set up then future posts by myself would be continuasly made to look negative and id always be jumped on with every post i write as thats what seems to happen on here, I myself will have a diy set up in my next van but i personally will not do it as i got a mate who done his own and like yours it looks very pro, sourced parts from all over he place, got one of then skid tanks which i think seem very good,

Everyone has to start somewhere Jaykie,

Give those guys their due, they tried!....and that goes a long way in my book. Thats why I'd never 'diss' their sytems.

I only realised how poor some DIY set-ups were when I saw the pictures.

You should look at my pictures and think - how do I beat that? How do I make it better? What else can I include that David missed?

Unlike some suppliers, I didnt post my pictures as the 'best' set-up.....its just up there for other guys to look at, and think.

With a bit of thought, I bet you could improve on my system.



....my dad is already working on my second system!!!

[matt]

I always had CIU down as being a bit, well...Ionics centric, as so many guys had spent so much on their set ups, they needed to justify their purchase!

I feel I owe an apology to the members of CIU.... Maybe I was a bit too one sided in my views and always read the 'negatives' and not so much the 'positives'.

yes we all love ironics here  

[Clive McDonald]

well put. My bug bear is that these people don't make any money. I shouldn't be so shallow and there is more in life, but i think, they had all these oppirtunities years before the rest of us, and instead of being really nice guys helping others on forums they should be awash with more cash than they can ever spend. It's beyond question I would be.