[derek west]

thinking of giving my mate a job.
this will include helping me out on big jobs and the rest of the time leafletting which i will also help him with when we're slack.
any thoughts guys, in theory it seems a good idea,
pro's are
i get lots of leaflets delivered week in week out. around 4000 to 6000 depending on if i help out. (and lets face it, its not cheap to have them delivered anyhow)
big jobs will take half the time if not even less time and i can charge the same.
i'm working with someone who i trust and know is a hard worker.

cons are
i have to pay him
i have to do all that paye bowlocks.

your views please gentlemen. good or bad, even both barrells if ya like.
derek

[garyj]

Tough one as you haven't been going very long.

Big part of me thinks, if you can afford it then give it a go. You know you will get the leaflets out and so he will or should pay for himself and also you get a hand on the jobs.
If it works out it looks like the quickest way to get 2 vans on the road.

Delivering leaflets is boring and hard work, finding someone to do this is hard enough.

As he is your mate why don't you try it for a month or two, if he is presentable and got the confidence then a bit of door knocking as well.

If he is in a well paid job at the moment he would be mad to give it up, but if he has had enough or is not up to much at the moment it could be a good opportunity for both of you.

With this sort of work he could even be paying for himself in a matter of weeks so if you pay him monthly it could work out very well.

On paper I expect the idea looks fantastic, guess you will only find out if you give it a go.

Good Luck

[derek west]

cheers for that comment gary.
he's just been made redundant. he worked for a maintenance company, i did an extraction job for them at a blockbuster thanks to him.
he's  very presentable so with a bit of training to give him confidence he'd probably get the hang of door knocking and possibly pricing a job while he's there, after all its not rocket science.
the more i think about it the more i feel like going for it. ive got the money at the mo so why not.
not sure about 2 tm's though, you can do a hell of a lot of work with 1 tm with a 2 man team, easily £600 a day, he helped me do a big job last month, £300 in 6 hours with a £50 tip and it was his first time so i had to show him the ropes, and that included a problem room which took ages, (cat hairs).
can't sleep thinking about this hence the 3 oclock post. i'm back off to bed to try again. look forward to some other comments tommorrow, (i mean today)
derek

[Jim_77]

Doubling your manpower doesn't double your productivity, if anything it just makes your day less tiring.  Presume it will knock cleaning times down to no less than 70% of what they are at the moment.  Your 6 hour job would probably only have taken you 8 on your own, but you'd have felt twice as knackered afterwards!

Two vans on the road doubles productivity, IF you have enough work to keep them running.  You'd be wise to steer clear of that for a good time yet!

Of course pricing a job isn't rocket science, but selling it to the customer is a different matter altogether.  Some people are born with the gift, others will struggle till the day they die.  If people find it easy to like him then you're on the right track.

Before doing anything else, take him out leafleting and see if he dies from the drudgery of it.

[Doctor Carpet (Ret'd)]

Easiest thing in the world to take somebody on and then get tied in knots if it goes pear shaped and proper paperwork/contracts are not in place. Insurance and accountancy costs go up as well.

But you have the advantage that your business will continue if you are ill/on holiday as well as Jim saying about getting through the day's work more quickly and being less tired. So look at it as an investment and an improvement in the quality of your life rather than a cost on a balance sheet.

You also need to at least consider what you will do if he lets you down when you are geared up for a big two man job, or of him trying to do  foreigners, or even, once trained setting up in competition with you.

THe big downside is you need to pay him even if there is no work although there are contracts you can get (Forum for Private Business can help) where you only pay him for the hours worked. SO if you have no work for him or if he wants to do his own thing one day he get s paid nothing.

Certainly agree with Jim that working together than two vans is a better way forward to start with as your overheads will go up and your standard of living will go down until he starts to pay for himself with more work being achieved. Two vans can also mean it's more difficult to monitor to ensure nobody is dipping their hands into the takings as I assume most cc's get paid (cheques and cash) as they are leaving a job and not invoicing all domestic jobs at a later date. (I've been thinking for some time about this question and wondered how those cc's who do employ staff monitor this.)

Finally do think about how your relationship with your mate may change once you move into employer/employee roles.

[derek west]

jim
ive done a few jobs with my mate and we do it more than twice as quick so i'll have to disagree with ya there.
he hoovers the first room straight away while i'm setting up, then he pre sprays while i'm getting up to temp, then i extract while he hoovers and presprays the other rooms, then when hes done that he edges while i finish extracing and then i put away. job done.
the only way we dont get an advantage over a 2 truck set up is travelling.
good point about the pricing though, it is a knack selling it to the custy. fingers crossed he's got it.
he's out leafletting as i type. gonna join him at 2pm and see how many we can do in 2 hours togethher.
derek

[clinton]

Hi derek

How did you get on with your leaflets how many did you get out

Cheers clinton

[Mike Halliday]

I've done the exact same thing I, gave a job to my mate ( Craig) who I intended to help me set up then go out leafleting.

it worked well, we did an hours leafleting at the start of the day and did another hour in any spaces between jobs.

but a couple problems did arise;

1) you no longer have the freedom you had when you were by yourself, I used to do a few odd-jobs during the day or have a lazy lunch but with Craig I found  couldn't just stop I had to consider what he would do while i was doing my own stuff, I felt mean saying.... "you go leafleting for 90 mins while I have a nice lunch in this pub"

2) they get resentful when they see how much money you make and only pay them  thier normal wage, even worse I started to feel guilty if I had a good day so I would give him bonuses.


but the plus side  is you can have a great laugh and even the crappiest jobs are a breeze.

mike

[derek west]

clinton
2 of us doing standard housing, i.e semi detached with car length drives your looking at 1000 every 2 hours, were going out all day monday and tuesday so we'll get a proper idea as to how many a day, good mixture of houses where were going so it'll give us a good average. hoping to do 6000 monday and tuesday, got 2 calls today from the ones we did today so i'm optemistic.
the plan is 200,000 a year. which is 400 hours delivery work (1 day a week). with royal mail that would cost £10,000 so it makes sense to take my mate on full time paying him 10k a year leafletting and helping me clean. in theory this sounds great as long as i  get the work in, the referals will take care of next year as i'm getting a lot all ready.
and also cos were doing the leaflets ourselves we can get them printed in 10k quantities and change them regularly while monitoring the responce of each design. fingers crossed it all pays off.

mike.
never had a lazy lunch in my life, i'm a workaholic and my mates not lazy, (not saying you are but as you said you like a chill out once and a while).plus ive told him straight, the more work we get in the more i'll pay him, if i do well, he will do well. i don't believe in minimum wage, you only get what you pay for and he'd soon get bored an find something else, i want to give him a good wage once were up and running, he's well up for it so hopefully i won't have your problems, agree with your plus sides though, had a good laugh today all though i am a bit worried about the winter months, i'm a workaholic but not a glutton for punishment,
derek

[Mike Halliday]

a sneaky trick you can use with an assistant is really up-sell protector

just get them to say at the end of the job( in front of the customer)

"shall I get the protector out of the van?"

then answer "no we are not protecting it"

they then say "NOT PROTECTING IT!! "

 then just carry on packing away and wait for the customer to start asking about protector 

[markpowell]

I would never mix business with pleasure, friendships can be and have been ruined through situations like this, can you really be your friends, boss/employer and expect anything but problems.
Mark

[derek west]

must admit mark, thats my only concern at present.
derek

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Derek why not pay Royal Mail £5k and see how busy you can get?

on the other side, is your guy going to want £10k a year when well actually 39hours at £5.73 =£11620.44 plus NI (you pay some) which is about another £1000 plus insurances comes to nearly £13000 a year.

Shaun

[derek west]

shaun
must admit i'm not up on ni and poop but 5k with RM would get 100k leaflets out where as 10k plus the bits you just added on will get me 200k leaflets out 1 day a week and 4 days of help on the job. i know its a risk an all, but ive spent 40k setting this business up, might as well go the whole hog,
thanks for the info on ni and insurance, i'll have to nip and chat to my accountant to see what the crack is. my mate would be happy with 10k and if i can get up to your annual takings then i wouldn't mind giving him 15k. had a good chat with him today and he's up for it.
he who dares
derek

[garyj]

Have a look at the government business link website Derek, there are some very handy things on there, you can even create your own employment contracts and also there are guides to most things you will need, best of all it is free. Well worth joining www.businesslink.gov.uk   

[davep]

Steer well clear of Royal Mail.  Stop any Postie and ask how many leaflets get returned to be shredded  :  They dont get done!

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Derek you may be able to get a government grant on wages for a small amount of time but I have employed 4 staff and it's a clerical nightmare, you gate Heath and safety issues etc etc personally I wasn't in a position to take someone on for years but you know your business.

IMO you need to be at a position where you are turning work away or booked up solid week after week to employ also if you are that full then I would put my prices up(supply and demand) , carpet cleaning is profitable for yourself but not to employ staff they will drain your finances, the real question are

 1. are you solidly booked up week in week out?
 2. do you charge more than most of your competitors?

Shaun

[colin thomas]

derek, before committing yourself see how many jobs you get from the leaflets, you might be surprised how few you get unless you really go for it as mike does,

colin

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Royal Mail charge far more than any other deliverer, try someone else first.

Shaun

[derek west]

your all right with your comments, i shouldn't be running before i can walk but ive always been a risk taker, and if it all goes tits up, one of you porty guys have got a fantastic set up at a bargain price in a years time.

thanks for the advice with busines link, NI and insurance. i'm guessing elf and safety is a ball ache but i'll look into everything before i go for it, were doing a months trial to see what amount of work comes in, the leaflets will coincide with a few add mags i'm going in at the end of the month, hopefully should be fully booked in november december.
wish me luck guys, i'm going in.
derek