[Clive McDonald]

For most of us employing someone is a big step, maybe for you the equivilent step would be employing a manager.As a second generation business who has branched into e commerce and supply, and now with orignal sourcing your own products and supalite brand  lines your position is a bit different to ours.It could be said that you stay within your window cleaning comfort zone because you have bigger fish to fry, not because it's the best solution.

I was most interested in what sums are the actual ones that define our businesses.Airlines have things like profit per passenger air mile.Another poster said it is very difficult to do in practice, and might be okay on paper.... well it's the okay on paper bit i'm interested in. If it can work on paper then it must be possible and failure is down to us as poor managers.

[seandyer2003]

For most of us employing someone is a big step, maybe for you the equivilent step would be employing a manager.As a second generation business who has branched into e commerce and supply, and now with orignal sourcing your own products and supalite brand  lines your position is a bit different to ours.It could be said that you stay within your window cleaning comfort zone because you have bigger fish to fry, not because it's the best solution.

I was most interested in what sums are the actual ones that define our businesses.Airlines have things like profit per passenger air mile.Another poster said it is very difficult to do in practice, and might be okay on paper.... well it's the okay on paper bit i'm interested in. If it can work on paper then it must be possible and failure is down to us as poor managers.

I think its possible to do sums that represent real life but you will 99% of the time have to put a lot of effort in to make it happen, i have got a business plan that will hopefully culminate in me having an employee full time in the next year, and the sums are there, and are quite conservative really i think after researching it as much as possible and basing it on my own experience of the industry, and im definite i can achieve it, but there will be difficulties such as finding a good employee, keeping the work coming in, etc, so i think you need a plan, and if you find as you work hard at it that it might be a bit too wishful, then give yourself a bit more time, or lower your goal a bit, otherwise you will just get downhearted, but you do need something to work too otherwise your standing still- or going backwards!

[prestigeclean]

i have just taken someone on  , i use the van mount and he has a trolley , and i need loads more work , you can storm through the work in no time , at this moment in time my earnings are way down because i,m paying 2 canvassers and an employee  , but the future looks good regards alan

[ronnie paton]

these figuers are made up but say for example you worked out your outgoings were £111 day with paying a wage and that two of you can earn £400 then you know that there is 290 left profil b4 tax.

you ask youe self what can i earn on my own?? say its 200 a day well your making an extra 90 a day you will prob find you dont have to work has hard you enjoy your day more, if you get the right person he can work on is own when needed too and lets be honist if you want to expand you have to employ all though one employee is not going to make you a millionaire if you have 6 all making you around 90 a day then well the future is bright

[ftp]

I know Alex's reply went down like a lead balloon but for simplicity and flexibility it's a very good idea particularly if you have some newish start ups in your area hungry for work or maybe someone prepared for a little overtime on a weekend. You can then subby out as and when your workload fluctuates.

[Clive McDonald]

It wasn't fair of Alex to offer his own example because he's special; obviously very capable, but he took over a family business and has been doing it a long time.

We are people mostly who have been going for two years or less. Even the standing order thing is not legal for most of us.


Not digging in anyway but family businesses are notoriously badly run and very often when they go public professional managers have to come in.

[Moderator David@stives]

10 years for me, one thing i can say is, it doesnt happen overnight.

[Skyglide]

Agree with Dave Morris. It's a big riddle every day with matching work to staff, weather problems, vehicle problems, equipment repair and replacement, it goes on and on. Stick at it and you will win out, but it takes longer than most think. If you are not prepared for the long haul keep it simple, one man one van and under VAT. Window cleaning is great if you like cleaning windows, being independent , feeling free and outdoors. To take it to the next levels is tons of stress and beware of lack of cash flow that can kill you.
The systems builders will tell you it's easy - just like those that show those figures for network marketing and the like. Looks good on paper, but put vehicles and human beings in the formulas and it will take far more time and effort to achieve your goals.
Chris

[lovewindows]

I was thinking about putting a second wfp on my van and employing a part timer to start off with , next step after going with a full timer someone to work the hoses, in theory then i could work with 3 maybe 4 people off 1 van and fly round my customers i would also be able to keep an eye on the quality of the work and even canvas around the area i'm working . my biggest concern would be the winter months ie icy days when i would have to pay staff when theres no money coming in . forecast for this winter is bleedin freezing.

[peter holley]

Agree with Dave Morris. It's a big riddle every day with matching work to staff, weather problems, vehicle problems, equipment repair and replacement, it goes on and on. Stick at it and you will win out, but it takes longer than most think. If you are not prepared for the long haul keep it simple, one man one van and under VAT. Window cleaning is great if you like cleaning windows, being independent , feeling free and outdoors. To take it to the next levels is tons of stress and beware of lack of cash flow that can kill you.
The systems builders will tell you it's easy - just like those that show those figures for network marketing and the like. Looks good on paper, but put vehicles and human beings in the formulas and it will take far more time and effort to achieve your goals.
Chris

 i agree with all that but i only take on work where i get paid quickly.... i even ask about terms of payment! and if its too long i aint interested.....

[Ambient Services]

If your a solely domestic W/C then its all pie in the sky. It's almost unheard of too make employing work, UNLESS you work side by side with people your employing - but even then it's doubtful you'll keep a long term employee of any merit.

The problem with those talking about business plans, etc is that they have slight ego issues - they want to build an empire while others do the work. Domestic window cleaning is not the trade to do this, its more for those who want to earn a good living, minimal stress, and flexible working hours. To be an entrepreneur you need to pick a different industry.

[Clive McDonald]

Thanks Ambient, not what I wanted to hear, but i think what you say makes sence. This doesn't mean that I wont do it, but it's given me a more realistic view.

[Steve CM]

Thanks Ambient, not what I wanted to hear, but i think what you say makes sence. This doesn't mean that I wont do it, but it's given me a more realistic view.

and he is also wrong! its down to people and management skills. there are a lot of ego's flying about. make your employees feel appreciated then they will respect you! get on an ego trip and take the mick out of them then don't expect them to stick around.

Its all in the handling

[groundhog]

I am very interested in this thread as I have been contemplating taking on staff for some time now. I was speaking to a taxi driver friend the other day, he now has 4 taxis, he drives one himself and the others are driven by people who work for him on a self employed basis, he provides the car and the customers, they have to pay for the petrol out of the takings, and what is left is split 50/50. Would this type of arrangement work for window cleaning? I don't see why not. I think I am going to test the water to start with by taking on a couple of part timers, who help me out a couple of days a week.

[NWH]

I am very interested in this thread as I have been contemplating taking on staff for some time now. I was speaking to a taxi driver friend the other day, he now has 4 taxis, he drives one himself and the others are driven by people who work for him on a self employed basis, he provides the car and the customers, they have to pay for the petrol out of the takings, and what is left is split 50/50. Would this type of arrangement work for window cleaning? I don't see why not. I think I am going to test the water to start with by taking on a couple of part timers, who help me out a couple of days a week.

Best way to do it IMO.

[groundhog]

Have you tried it mate? 

[NWH]

No i havn`t but i`ve tried every other way,if your supplying the van and system etc you can justify your expense and he`s less likely to get green eyed on you.If he was taking the van home 40% would still seem fair,it all depends on what money your doing per day-week.

[groundhog]

I think if you can get the right person, this could be the way to go, I would be very interested to know if anyone has tried this and how well it works? 

[bluez]

If your a solely domestic W/C then its all pie in the sky. It's almost unheard of too make employing work, UNLESS you work side by side with people your employing - but even then it's doubtful you'll keep a long term employee of any merit.

The problem with those talking about business plans, etc is that they have slight ego issues - they want to build an empire while others do the work. Domestic window cleaning is not the trade to do this, its more for those who want to earn a good living, minimal stress, and flexible working hours. To be an entrepreneur you need to pick a different industry.

Got to say that I disagree, Ambient, the only limits are those set by your abilities or vision.


With regard to employing if anyone thinks it is about getting the right employee then they are mistaken because what is required is a series of reasonably decent employees because in most cases they will  be good for a while and then get bored, lazy, take you for granted, rob you etc. and then you will have to replace them same as any other business.

 

[bluez]

If your a solely domestic W/C then its all pie in the sky. It's almost unheard of too make employing work, UNLESS you work side by side with people your employing - but even then it's doubtful you'll keep a long term employee of any merit.

The problem with those talking about business plans, etc is that they have slight ego issues - they want to build an empire while others do the work. Domestic window cleaning is not the trade to do this, its more for those who want to earn a good living, minimal stress, and flexible working hours. To be an entrepreneur you need to pick a different industry.

Got to say that I disagree, Ambient, the only limits are those set by your abilities or vision.


With regard to employing if anyone thinks it is about getting the right employee then they are mistaken because what is required is a series of reasonably decent employees because in most cases they will  be good for a while and then get bored, lazy, take you for granted, rob you etc. and then you will have to replace them same as any other business.