[CarPete Cleaning]

Hi there, I am fairly new to carpet cleaning and have only been trading for 7 weeks now.  When I attended the NCCA course I was taught to pre-spray and then rinse, preferably with an acid rinse (e.g. prochem fib/fab)  Last week, I went out on a job with an experienced cleaner, who doesn't pre-spray and then uses an extraction detergent in the tank (Chemspec Formula 90).  This gave very good results even on badly stained carpets in a student let (synthetic carpets)
My question is.....is it ok to do this? does this leave the carpet akaline, or with a sticky residue?  I must say, using this approach is a lot easier then what I was doing - i.e. pre-spray, agitate, rinse....
Appreciate any comments or advice from the experienced cleaners on the forum. cheers Pete.

[Mike Halliday]

I think this is quite controversial subject full of falsehoods, has high ph or detergent ever been tested and proven to cause re-soiling (as often said on training courses)? Don't you think Chemspec have spent millions Of £s on product development, if they make F90 to clean and be left on a carpet who are we too say its wrong?

If you do the maths about the dilution rate of F90 (up to 900-1) and how much cleaning solution we leave in a carpet, then there might be only a egg-cup of F90 left on the carpet, so can this really cause any problems?

I'd say its Ok to clean with F90 when used correctly, but this is just my opinion.

 

[neil 47]

Pete

There is a right way, and  wrong way and your way its up to you to decide

You can miss pre inspection . Might miss burns wear, b/w etc but take the risk.

You can miss the pre vac        might get away with heavy soiling turning to mud ,not noticing marks ,spots, burns loose carpeting etc

You could miss pre spray might get away with stains ,spots over wetting .

You could even miss agitation .

You could miss post grooming

Its up to you ,but from experience the steps you miss all have a pay back .
Short cuts are ok if you are willing to keep looking for new customers as the ones you’ve been to wont phone you back the choice is yours .


Neil

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

I was taught to pre-vac, pre-spray, agitate, dwell and extract - yes it's long winded - yes you have to take several pieces of equipment into the premises, but as far as I am concerned I am doing it the right way, by the book.

Having said that, when I was recently on an NCCA course there were cleaners there who put powerburst straight into their machines and then scrubbed away with the wand - they assured me that they get good results and all their customers are delighted.

To my mind this goes against everything I was taught, not to mention what the cleaning solutions are doing to their pumps and the lack of a rinse afterwards - but hey, whatever works for you.

Not the way I would do it, but they are not my customers, so not my problem.

Steve

[Straker Cleaning]

Mike...................................."has high ph or detergent ever been tested and proven to cause re-soiling (as often said on training courses)"  
This has been proven simply by the amount of time it takes a carpet cleaned without high ph or detergent, to resoil  

I am no expert on hair but i know that if you shampoo and do not rinse thoroughly, then it will be greasy by the end of the day ............. it also causes itchiness which may indicate a ph factor !!

My biggest jobs have come from my 'non detergent' results and the extended time between cleans ........... maybe i am lucky to have followed CC's with poor rinsing/neutralising techniques............. or maybe there is something in it  :

[Straker Cleaning]

Was not that long ago that us 'non detergent' boys were ridiculed by manufacturers and CC's alike .......... strange how many manufacturers and CC's now utilise the same technology 

[Mike Halliday]

Chris I've heard all the comments & comparisons about detergents, I'd just like someone  independent  to take an unbiased look and test it, to give a definitive answer.

I've cleaned with detergents and with M/S and a feshwater rinse, I can't say I've noticed any difference in resoiling.

I'm not saying that I'm recommending rinsing with detergents, but for Pete to keep an open mind and get information from many different sources,  

[neil 47]

Chris

I am no expert on hair but i know that if you shampoo and do not rinse thoroughly, then it will be greasy by the end of the day ............. it also causes itchiness which may indicate a ph factor !!

And how would you know that


Lol

Neil

[Straker Cleaning]

Neil ............ was hypnotised and regressed to remember such a thing  :

[neil 47]

might give that a go myself Chris .

Pete dont cut corners it only cause,s you more work in the long run

[Darren O]

 I always pre vac,pre spray then rinse with F90 been doing this for nearly 3 years ive never had a problem with resoiling also i do my own carpets to its never been a problem it just dosent happen.If you listen to some on here your feet will be sticking to the carpet after using detergents utter nonsense.I think it makes them feel better after farting about for half an hour aggitating presprays"detergent free" when you can get better results in half the time.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Unless you have a TM you can't go in without several steps to clean carpet fibres. A TM will flush more so you may be able to get away with just HWE and the residue would be minimal but why not vacumm carpet and spray freshener on it and be done!

There are more than 1 type of soiling in a carpet, presprays (which ever one) are made to break these down a rinse detergent is just that albeit some better than others.

Irrelivant if you are aggitating on not vacuuming is for dry soil, pre spray loosens and or degrease soils and rinsing is just that, most rinse agents are formulated to break down and be vacummed away.

Shaun

[CarPete Cleaning]

Many thanks to all, for their comments and advice.  I will take them all on-board and experiment with the different approaches, and not just take the easy option!!
cheers Pete

[Paul Redden Countryfresh]

Any doubts about resoiling, test on your own carpet. In my experience high ph leaves carpets dull and does resoil quicker. Looks great when you leave but dries dull. Lack of prespray and agitation can also cause wick back as you haven't loosed the compacted soil.

Satisfaction cards can be a good way of getting some honest feedback from custy's.

Paul

[Ken Wainwright]

The pre-conditioner is used in two different ways.

a) Prespray all over, rinse all over with a compatible and appropriate rinse agent.

b) Pre-treat more heavily soiled areas eg traffic lanes  only and rinse all over with a compatible and appropriate detergent or rinse agent.  This is how the first presprays, invented by Chemspec, were used.


With TLC's, if the soiling doesn't warrant it, don't use it!

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[derek west]

heres a thought, (yes i'm back, bloody orange broadband, tut)
get a piece of carpet sample, spray one half with a alkali and the other half with an acidic rinse, then chuck it in the back garden for a week and see wich side soils the most.
just a thought
derek

[mark_roberts]

Also youd have to rinse and scrub a lot more with your wand if not using a prespray so wetter carpets and a sore back.

If someone is on  a course but their telling you the 'best' way to do it I think Id rather listen to the instructor.

Mark

[markpowell]

heres a thought, (yes i'm back, bloody orange broadband, tut)
get a piece of carpet sample, spray one half with a alkali and the other half with an acidic rinse, then chuck it in the back garden for a week and see wich side soils the most.
just a thought
derek

Soil is ph sensitive, so obviously the sample with the alkali pre-spray would end up more heavily soiled if you carried out this experiment 
Mark

[derek west]

so pre spray then acidic rinse, the end. next topic.
derek

[Bill Robinson]

do you not think if you prespray in certain times you end up with it cleaner than all the rest of the area do you not need to be balanced with dell times

bill