[DASERVICES]

I noticed x-line also had the wording on their website, surprised Ionics had not taken action yet.

[windowwashers]

I dont know why everyone wants this on there stuff anyway unless they have an ionic system.

I use water fed pole system if ever I explain to others, reach and wash just gets blank looks.

[David Slater]

Its sad that they're cracking down on the small guy, who is at the end of the day actually advertising their system for them free of charge anyway!!!

I thought all this trademark nonsense had stopped 12 months ago, but apparently some numpty in Ionics feels the need to start again.

Personally, I think Ionics do themselves no favours at all with this sort of thing.
Granted, they hold trademark and have every right to defend it.

...But it does look ever so petty and small minded.

Stoneleech does highlight something very interesting - I picked up my copy of Ionics magazine (2007/08 in gold) and sure enough, He's right! The Ionics name is clearly highlighted with a (c) symbol but the "Reach and Wash" is not highlighted as (c) or TM. Surely you have a duty to make it clear that something is indeed trademarked.....unless you want people to fall into a trap?

I can think of one person in particular who has allowed me to use not only his bloody good system name but also his artwork. Free of Charge. Sent to my email address. I never bought anything off this fella. And not so much as a 'thank you' asked in return

Guess who's getting my future business? 

   

[stoneleech]

ionics must have someone check these sites for picture sof peoples vans.

sad day indeed.

I know it's a member from this site....I got a phone call within minutes from Ionics as soon as I posted my pics.

I dont know why everyone wants this on there stuff anyway unless they have an ionic system.

If i knew reach and wash had anything to do with Ionics I wouldn't have had anything put on the van in the first place.

[David Slater]

Stoneleech,

I feel for you fella. Seriously.

This has nothing to do with me. I dont know you personally...but it really makes my blood boil.

Maybe because so many people have freely given not only their knowledge, but also their pictures and Invoices and Risk Assessments and H&S statements and Flyers and Logos all for free and not so much as a 'thank you' asked in return.

From the supposed 'Leader in the field' they strike me as being VERY MUCH against window cleaners and VERY MUCH for profit at any cost.

...Lets not forget this is the company that is selling WFP systems designed for the 'home market' and 'commercial user' thus cutting out the need for a window cleaner entirely.

I would love nothing more than to see a totally 'trademark free' bunch of words and phrases that we can all claim as our own if we dont want to spend tens of thousands of pounds for something that in reality is worth a few thousand (at most!).

Somebody has seriously shot themselves in the foot with this one.

[jaykie]

I have to agree that they make themselves look like muppets and this is one of the reasons i wouldnt bye from them in the future, the only people who know what REACH & WASH means is fellow cleaners.

[NWH]

I know someone that has 1 thermopure in 1 van and a DIY in the other,both vans have Reach and Wash on the vans and have logo`s etc all over them.If they were doing everything by the book he should have an ionic system in each van,otherwise you could buy 1 system and have 4-5 others vans with DIY setups in them.

[Paul Coleman]

Its sad that they're cracking down on the small guy, who is at the end of the day actually advertising their system for them free of charge anyway!!!

I thought all this trademark nonsense had stopped 12 months ago, but apparently some numpty in Ionics feels the need to start again.

Personally, I think Ionics do themselves no favours at all with this sort of thing.
Granted, they hold trademark and have every right to defend it.

...But it does look ever so petty and small minded.

Stoneleech does highlight something very interesting - I picked up my copy of Ionics magazine (2007/08 in gold) and sure enough, He's right! The Ionics name is clearly highlighted with a (c) symbol but the "Reach and Wash" is not highlighted as (c) or TM. Surely you have a duty to make it clear that something is indeed trademarked.....unless you want people to fall into a trap?

I can think of one person in particular who has allowed me to use not only his bloody good system name but also his artwork. Free of Charge. Sent to my email address. I never bought anything off this fella. And not so much as a 'thank you' asked in return

Guess who's getting my future business? 

   

You make a good point.  Ionics are alienating possible future customers by taking this stance. I do understand their position but it does come across as bullying to me.

[Moderator David@stives]

I dont blame them really, like i said earlier

If they dont appear to defend there trademark , then they can lose it, then all there competitors can use it.

If they want to keep it then they have to defend it,

If you knew about trademark law then you would know this.

p.s. Ionics are always online, they just dont post any more.

[David Slater]

I dont blame them really, like i said earlier

If they dont appear to defend there trademark , then they can lose it, then all there competitors can use it.

If they want to keep it then they have to defend it,

If you knew about trademark law then you would know this.

p.s. Ionics are always online, they just dont post any more.

Do you mean they dont answer criticism?...... or just silently monitor activity?

Either way, they strike me as a bunch of money hungry sell-outs who have no real interest in window cleaners and have more interest in selling their "systems" to whoever will buy them.

They sell to "Domestic"....to eliminate window cleaners

They sell to "Commercial".....to eliminate window cleaners

How this shower can be supported by any professional window cleaner is beyond my comprehension......... You are selling your soul to the Devil!!

Prove me wrong Ionics!

Tell me the 2007/08 catalogue does not include "Domestic" or "Commercial" systems designed at removing window cleaners?

Ionics,

If you're watching (which obviously you are!)

Prove me wrong. Tell me (and all of us window cleaners) you have our best interest at heart.

You dont. You have your profit margin and sales figures at heart.

Alex Gardiner or Nat or Purefreedom have more chance of taking my money because they have the good grace to appear and defend/listen to criticism.

Your actions concerning your "trademark" have made me a very unhappy bunny.

 



 

[L.J.Thorpe]

a member on here hey :
hmmmmmm
i wonder
got to be someone with one of their systems
someone who likes to report on people
hmmmmm

[jaykie]

Here Here David Slater,

[David Slater]

Here Here David Slater,

Jaykie,

I've read with interest your progression over the last few months.

Flyers, canvassing, advertising. first commercial job!...etc etc etc

Your highs and lows have left me with mixed feelings.. but I always read your posts!

Let me just state right now (before anyone else tries it!) I WILL NOT be selling a system. I WILL NOT be selling poles....for that matter I WILL NOT be selling anything!

I have no 'vested interest' in the success or failure of any company selling systems or poles.

"certain companies" have come to my attention who may need a bit of a wake up call.

I will NOT be bullied by anyone or any company.

I welcome open and honest debate.

If any company feels the need to respond to my suggestions/input/critsims then I shall welcome a full and frank discussion in an open forum.....not some horrible little phone call away from the public gaze.

I'm calling you out...."Big Boy"

You want to answer little teeny weeny Slater?



...of course you dont   






 

 

[jaykie]

Im a little confused what your saying.

Chris

[jaykie]

I want to know if that was a negative post towards me from David as here here is ment when backing someones comments.

Chris

[L.J.Thorpe]

reach and wash means nowt to most people
window washers
now thats a phrase that needs a copyright on it
much more to the point
perfect even
  

[David Slater]

I want to know if that was a negative post towards me from David as here here is ment when backing someones comments.

Chris

Jaykie,

No Way mate!!!!

You're new. I'm new....Ive been watching your development with interest.

No way in a million years is it meant as a negative post!

As far as I can see, you're doing well in my book. You're progressing and still asking questions and seeking advice.

I find most of the questions I want to ask have already been asked by you....so I watch your posts for I how should be going forward.

[jaykie]

Thanks David i appreciate that its hard to understand sometimes when things

are written on a screen rather then heard in person, im glad i come across well

as i would always like to help people and only ever stop when they stab me in

the back, ive always been told to never trust another wc but ill trust only once, i like

to help on this forum, take a lot in and use it myself but still finding it hard to feel

like i can really give advise on here as dont want to come across like i no it all

after such a short period as theres people on here who been doing it over 30

years.

just passed some work on to another cleaner as cant take it all on and also

have some work to give to another lad who is just setting up in my area as its

not in my area and its all trad work so andy east sussex if your reading this then

give me a ring on the number i left you.

Chris

[David Slater]

I think your wrong David there business is aimed at window cleaners.

If any of us had the foresight to trade mark “Reach & Wash” we would have done it ourselves and won’t like it if others start using it without permission.

Business is competitive, window cleaners are competing to get work from other window cleaners. Doesn’t matter what system you have.

Ionic’s thought are trying to sell you a complete package part of that is the “Reach & Wash” logo so they are also protecting the customers (image)

I think we all will have profit margins as the main reason for working, unless there are a few that do it for charity.

I would have thought if you have had a website built for you, have a look at the bottom of the page you will most likely have a copyright symbol!


 

Ewan,

Its funny you should mention websites because I'm in the process of getting mine developed.

It will be professionally designed, and yes, you will be free to use the words or layout however you wish.

Its the least I could do seeing as most of the pictures/logos will have come free of charge through this and other forums.

We're not talking about Ionics selling a "complete package" to window cleaners though are we?

May I draw your attention to Page 8 of the 2007/08 (gold) catalogue -

RESIDENTIAL:  "Primarily designed for HOME OWNERS....."
showing a lovely little system that plugs into your outside tap.....hhhmmmm

window cleaner required?...dont think so!

PAGE 9:

"The big brother of the "residential" cartridge system. It holds 12 times more De-Ionised water....which also applies to the residentail system"

Window cleaners systems but selling as domestic??... shurely shome mistake?

We could also include Page 24 Pro-5(TM) Access Trolley...but there is no explicit wording to suggest that it can be used by "non window cleaners"...but I feel the inference is indeed there for commercial customers....draw you own conclusions after reading the catalogue.

[David Slater]

Thanks David i appreciate that its hard to understand sometimes when things

are written on a screen rather then heard in person, im glad i come across well

as i would always like to help people and only ever stop when they stab me in

the back, ive always been told to never trust another wc but ill trust only once, i like

to help on this forum, take a lot in and use it myself but still finding it hard to feel

like i can really give advise on here as dont want to come across like i no it all

after such a short period as theres people on here who been doing it over 30

years.

just passed some work on to another cleaner as cant take it all on and also

have some work to give to another lad who is just setting up in my area as its

not in my area and its all trad work so andy east sussex if your reading this then

give me a ring on the number i left you.

Chris

Hi Chris,

I'm up in the North West so you're a long way from me.

Dont stop posting because I DO track your posts. You're about 6 months in front of me and I always try and look in on your posts.

I might not answer (because I'm looking for the same answers!). But you have a fan here who is rooting for your success.

I got my first commercial quote recently as well!!!.....so fingers crossed I get it