[Mike_Boxall]

For those that are interested, just to put the record straight:

As most of you will be aware the ‘Carpet Cleaners Day Out’ was promoted heavily, and pretty much exclusively, on this forum. Although there was a charge to cover ‘expenses’ members were led to believe that it was ‘by carpet cleaners for carpet cleaners’. We didn’t get any revenue from the event and, on the basis that it was not a commercial exercise, we were perfectly happy with that. However, there’s now a separate website for it with it’s own forum and it is now clearly being promoted with a view to the organisers making money from it next time. We’re not a charity and we’re not prepared to give others a free ride particularly when they don’t reciprocate!

But it’s not just about the money. I have concerns about the quality of these events particularly for those new to the industry.  There is often a lot of misinformation regarding machines and methods and we’re not prepared to accept any liability for any issues that may arise. I distinctly recall one of the last presenters recommending a ‘trial and error’ approach, which is simply not the way for a new operator to learn!

Now with others jumping on the bandwagon and organising ‘training events’ they will need to pay to advertise the event AND satisfy us that they know what they’re doing. There are enough cowboys in this industry already and we would rather promote training from an appropriate recognised and established body.

When Paul posted the topic about his ‘boot camp’ he was simply asked to contact me to discuss it. If he had done so, this situation would not have occurred. Simon Gerrard was banned for posting slanderous comments under a second user name. Pete Sweeney was not banned and clearly thinks he can get some pr for his next ‘day out’ by telling people he has been. Regrettably, Dave Liahona decided to delete himself without knowing all the facts.

I'm sure many would agree that the forum would benefit from the loss of one or two other ‘deletions’ so those that think we are being unreasonable can remove themselves by going to > Profile > Actions > Delete this account

I hope those that wish to stay will benefit from a better forum in the future

Regards

Mike Boxall

[Jim_77]

() <---Egg........Face----> :0

Roll up roll up!

Who still feels like bleating?

[RAM Cleaning]

well it makes a litte more sense now, and in one hand i can see why you as the forum admininistrator removed some people from the board.  I can also see why others may have removed themselves.

But on the other hand, your rules rules state at sign up,
Please remember that we do not actively monitor the posted messages and are not responsible for their content. We do not warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any information presented. The messages express the views of the author, not necessarily the views of this YaBB forum.
So surely the above removes you of any liabilty??

I beleive that most training is trial and error, the only difference is you DON'T use that approach on a custys carpet.  All training is different, if you go to a prochem training course it will differ from a chemspec training course as they train with their products, and there method is right, but as you know you don't use just one brand of product, or very rarely, you have a mixture of products so you have to trial and error to make sure they are compatable.  I know for a fact that prochem wont tell you to prespray with one of their products then rinse with someone elses product!!!! why would they.

Personally i don't think the forum should receive any financial reward directly for anything resulting from the forum, surely that is why it is "Sponsored" by cleaning express, where they have advertising on the forum and probably generate a good amount of interest directly from that.

That is my personal opinon wheter it is right or wrong, some may agree some may disagree, but i think we will all have to agree to disagree and let the tumbleweed blow through and it will all calm down in a day or two and hopefully some normality and sense will return, and the forum will go back to giving out good advice.  I just hope freedom of choice does return and i personally don't like to have doors closed, i can make my own mind up as to whether something is right for me or not.

Richard

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Jim stop being a pratt it's a serious matter.

Shaun

[spencer davies]

And Jim is a moderator on another forum 

S

[Steve Barnett (Carpet Care Plus)]

Mike

Thank you for explaining your side of things.

I still feel that the situation could have been nipped in the bud before it escalated into members being banned or deleting themselves.

Personally, I think the forum will be poorer for their loss.

I am not going to cut my nose off to spite my face as I get a lot out of this site, but having said that I think it's a shame.

Steve

[Neil Grainger]

Mike

I understand what you are saying mike, this is your forum and you can run it how you like. I would if it was mine.

We have be told that you wanted a large cut of any profit made on the next event, is this true becasue they said no, you took the action you did.

I have stayed out of this because generally I like this forum alot and it has given me so much. I dont want to be banned but I would like the truth about this.

Kind Regards

Neil

[carlton care]

RAM
Within all industries there are R&D departments where new products, machines, carpets, fabrics, leather finishes, etc, are hammered to death, with everything available.

This is usually well away from the public gaze, but it's gone on for decades and involves dedicatet people, who make sure the public's and the users safety are never compromised.

In that environment trial and error is acceptable, because everything is conducted in a controlled environment and all results are recorded and analysed, before decisions are made as to the suitability or otherwise of any method or product.

There is no need to gamble, although in my early years I did plenty of experimentation, on my own furniture usually, but occasionally on trashed items.

Today, there is no need, as there are loads of training professionals who keep up with new products and methods and keep it safe for you and me.

[Darren O]

I seen this coming i think there were some on here who thought they were bigger than the forum.Hopefully things can get back to some normality.

[carlton care]

Darren

You saw it. I saw it. Why is anyone else surprised.

robert m

[Gerry Styles]

RAM

I do not believe training is trail and error, that indicates to me the the trainer does not know his subject. It is folly to use trial and error that is what causes injury to people and damage to property I trained with Prochem and would see no reason for them to endorse another product at one of thier sessions.

I am also a trainer/assessor for BICSc and an assessor for NVQ. Both use tried and tested training materials and systems.

[Mike Osbourne]

There you go Jim, there's enough room now for your ego to take over the forum.

Will you be the new enforcer/moderator in the style of the other ruined Forum? I'm sure Mike B will welcome your approach.

CCDO-money making, that's a joke too right? And with regards to the professionalism of the Presenter that is Dave Liahona, Doug and Paul if the term 'trial and error' was used I honestly think it has been taken out of context to shore up a poor argument.

re other forums, weren't interested, cos this was the best by far.

[Jim_77]

No ego Mike, just having a bloody good laugh at something I find quite funny - how easily led some people are.

[Neil Grainger]

CCDO website was only started after this forum banned any talk or posts about it & when it became apparrent that no money was going to be made, this is from my memory of events. Lots of people gave a lot of free time to make it work

Lots of spin going on here me thinks. shame because it makes me feel unsettled about what to believe and what not to believe.

[Barry Livingstone]

By the looks of it mike would want more of us too go....................but has NO reason to ban the people he is on about ....

At the end of the day experienced carpet cleaners are no longer on this forum.. i would say its the forum thats missin out ....

But i also understand that this should have been sorted out over the weekend and not aloud to get as bad as it did....

[davep]

It would have but people where banned and no reason given.  Poor management over the whole affair has pushed people away and onto other forums.

[garyj]

I think it was a shame Paul was banned, even though I have had many battles with him over the years I have grown to look forward to his wit and wisdom since his return, I have been here long enough to know he has left a couple of times before.

I think I was the only person who said anything against the initial few leather days, and even then I had worked out where it was heading, in fact I thought it would of happened a lot sooner. The leather battles were fun for all who watched, and I do think Judy overstepped the line at times as well.

But have to say would I have allowed this to happen if it was MY forum and the answer is no. I think the forum may be poorer for the recent loses, but the information we get now will be from a reliable source, I have never met Judy or Andy and have to say I do not really wish to, but saying that I can understand their frustration as they both know what they are talking about and are undoutably experts in what they do.

Personalities aside I can tell you now what is going to happen in the near future.
The little clique has gone, it will be replaced, the forum will continue as before, the information we all need will still be here, the questions we have, just answered by different people. Every now and then there will be a little raid to unsettle the board and it will get fun again.

Over the years I have lost key staff and key contracts and at times the company has looked finished, but each time replacements come along and things carry on as before. Sometimes the company has needed the clear-out and it has been a blessing in disguise.

If what I have read is true I am disappointed in Simon Gerard, it was insinuated a couple of weeks ago he had 2 accounts, if he did why? If he did not then we are all being taken as mugs and owe him an apology, saying that he did leave no option but to be banned, I was online at the time of the posts yesterday and things did get out of hand, as I said last week, he certainly does not look like a trouble maker.

While I think right now it is a loss to the forum, the decision has been made and the fun is over for a bit. It is just a case now of waiting to see who the new personalities will be, there are a lot of very knowledgeable people here so it will carry on. Do think it is going to be a bit tame and quieter here for a few weeks though. I am going to miss the banter and temper tantrums from all concerned,  I bet MB is actually relieved!!
As for the people who have not posted, they do not have to, they are not accountable to us and they have the right to keep their silence.

Still think it is a shame so many have gone though, but bad luck, I am staying because I like it here even though I do go to another forum where it is far friendlier the real information and expert advice is here, and always will be. I expect there is a lot more that has happened and people like me will never know the full story, even the moderators claimed to not know what was going on, if that is true then that is poor.
I think there are a lot of people like me here at the moment who do not know what to believe, but has half educated adults we can make up our own minds, it is so far our decision weather to come on here or not and for me it is still a yes.

But at the end of the day, do not forget, it is only cleaning 

[craigp]

Gary,

years ago when you and I was on here more your posts always made me laugh, Like me you dont take things to seroiusly I think this is the first serious post I have read by you!!

My experience of paul is that he a generous top bloke and will help any of us out best he could.

Most times when you have 2 sides of a story the truth lies somwhere in the middle. add to that missinterpretation, bad communication ect.
So we need to remember before people go off on one like they did we dont know the whole story and its not clear cut.

livened up the place though!

[carlton care]

Good post Gary. I had typed out a similar one but yours is better. I would like to say, though, that Andy of Ltt does not get involved in the internet and is an excellent teacher with vast experience who does in fact carry out regular cleaning and repairs in their workshop. Definitely worth a visit.

robert m

[carlton care]

James

What are you gibbering about.............there are are dozens of highly experienced and skilled carpet upholstery and leather cleaners on here, some with 20 or more years of experience.

If you look back you will find sharing information and knowledge is not new, far from it !