[dudek]

Can anyone tell mewho supplies hot systems other than ionics and concept 2o.

If there are others?

[poleman]

www.omnipole.com

[NWH]

Omnipole do but i think the Concept 1 looks good as it`s gas which means the temp is adjustable.

[dudek]

Cheers that seems very pricey any idea how much the other suppliers are charging

[Clive McDonald]

Omni is a 2.5k retro fit. Those that have had it say good things about omni.So this is a good firm and a good price.

It is a diesel system.

Your other option is a DIY on demand LPG system which costs £300. You have to carry a gas bottle. You must work with a door open (or cut a hole in your roof for a flue to exit).

I have had this system (i pioneered it ) for nearly a year. A picture is on the scudo owners thread.But this is not the question you asked.

[Nathanael Jones]

Clive really is the expert on DIY hot systems. He gave me some vital help and info putting mine together. It works a treat, even if I do need to tidy it up and make it look a bit more pro.

[Clive McDonald]

Nathaneal,
A lot about me being a pioneer is a joke, but I am serious about arguing for simplicity. I was wondering, because of your other forum, your position with the guild, and the DIY giude to self installers that you offer. What do you think would be a realistic number of self achieved hot on demand systems users now?

I know of about 5, but the number must be more. What would you estimate it at?

[Nathanael Jones]

I know of 2 others local to me, and another one who'll be getting it installed in the next few weeks,...

It's catching on quick,...

[U.S. wfp USER]

We have one.

www.reachhigherground.com

[p1w1]

do you ship to the u.k

paul

[Sir Squeaky]

Rather you than me having a gas bottle onboard.

[Sir Squeaky]

Rather you than me having a gas bottle onboard.

Why not squeak, it'll go nicely with your unbolted tank!

[U.S. wfp USER]

do you ship to the u.k

paul

we have a UK based distributor. What can I help you with.

[Nathanael Jones]

Rather you than me having a gas bottle onboard.

I did a bit of research on that and was told that in all reality I should be a lot more worried about having liquid fuel that gas in a crash situation as those cylinders are almost indestructible.

But,.. I will be securing it better in the near future,.. a bungee cord just doesn't look very pro does it?!!

 

[Guy Gibson]

Clive really is the expert on DIY hot systems. He gave me some vital help and info putting mine together. It works a treat, even if I do need to tidy it up and make it look a bit more pro.

Hi mate, is that copper pipe you have feeding the boiler?  Or is it just brown coloured?  If it's copper, won't it fracture?

What's the boiler off, a caravan/boat/airplane?

[Nathanael Jones]

All the pipes are flexi,... an essential IMO in a van.

[Guy Gibson]

What's the boiler off, a caravan?  New or 2nd hand?  How long does a bottle of gas last?  How much does a bottle of gas cost?

[p1w1]

do you ship to the u.k

paul

we have a UK based distributor. What can I help you with.

I was looking for a hose reel a cox's one does your uk supplier have a web site or contact number..

thanks
paul

[U.S. wfp USER]

do you ship to the u.k

paul

we have a UK based distributor. What can I help you with.

I was looking for a hose reel a cox's one does your uk supplier have a web site or contact number..

thanks
paul

I sent you an email.

[Nathanael Jones]

What's the boiler off, a caravan?  New or 2nd hand?  How long does a bottle of gas last?  How much does a bottle of gas cost?

The boiler was new off ebay designed for caravan/RV use. Cost about €150 including postage!

The gas bottles cost me €28 each and last 4-6 weeks depending on how busy I am.

 

[p1w1]

do you ship to the u.k

paul

we have a UK based distributor. What can I help you with.

I was looking for a hose reel a cox's one does your uk supplier have a web site or contact number..

thanks
paul

I sent you an email.

have replied thanks

paul

[Guy Gibson]

What's the boiler off, a caravan?  New or 2nd hand?  How long does a bottle of gas last?  How much does a bottle of gas cost?

The boiler was new off ebay designed for caravan/RV use. Cost about €150 including postage!

The gas bottles cost me €28 each and last 4-6 weeks depending on how busy I am.

 

Got be cheaper than a factory fitted unit.  Do you think gas is better than a diesel fired unit?  Or would you go for diesel if you got he chance/ie , why choose gas over diesel?  Is the gas unit cheaper?

[Nathanael Jones]

The diesel/petrol powered heaters are less powerful (5kw compared to 20kw for the gas heater) cost a LOT more (about £950 for a new one! Search ebay for "erberspacher" or "webasto"),.. cost more to run (£4- £5 per day I'm told), drain your WFP battery more than twice as fast as your water pump alone (The gas heater doesn't take any power from your WFP battery), and are harder to control and fit apparently.

I did initially have concerns about a gas heater,.. but once a professional does the gas connections for you and once it's properly vented,.. there isn't much that can go wrong.

[windowwashers]

Rather you than me having a gas bottle onboard.

Just the same as a plumber

[Guy Gibson]

Nathaneal, did you think about having the heater in your shed/garage or wherever and heat the water as it went into your tank?

You'd have to start the process early in the morning would be one drawback I think.

Or is your water heated from cold when it comes out of the tank and into the di resins?

If you ahd the heater in the garage this would save space in the van. 

[Guy Gibson]

 

[twt]

Rather you than me having a gas bottle onboard.

I did a bit of research on that and was told that in all reality I should be a lot more worried about having liquid fuel that gas in a crash situation as those cylinders are almost indestructible.

But,.. I will be securing it better in the near future,.. a bungee cord just doesn't look very pro does it?!!

 

I think you may need to do some more research as the diesel in your van is very low risk if you have a crash and petrol is a bit more of a risk but it is very rare for it it cause problems. modern cars and van mostly leak cooling fluid in accidents which need to be cleaned up due to causeing the road service to become slippy.
The cylinder and valve are unlikely to be damaged but if you do not turn the gas of at the cylinder in a crash it is highly likely that that the boiler or the connecting hose will become damged in some way allowing gas to leak.

[matt]

Nathaneal, did you think about having the heater in your shed/garage or wherever and heat the water as it went into your tank?

You'd have to start the process early in the morning would be one drawback I think.

Or is your water heated from cold when it comes out of the tank and into the di resins?

If you ahd the heater in the garage this would save space in the van. 

[matt]

Or is your water heated from cold when it comes out of the tank and into the di resins?

If you ahd the heater in the garage this would save space in the van. 

his water is heated on demand from a cold tank in his van, through the boiler

the boiler unit / gas bottle  isnt that big

[Guy Gibson]

What I was driving at (I am sooo funny this morning) was to try to save space in the van, that's all, by heating the water as you fill the tank, as opposed to heating it in the van.

[matt]

What I was driving at (I am sooo funny this morning) was to try to save space in the van, that's all, by heating the water as you fill the tank, as opposed to heating it in the van.

i had a similar thought, you would need the tank well insulated in the van, it would stay warm then, afterall we have our water heated in the morning and its still warm at tea time in the house, so the same would happen in a van

[Guy Gibson]

Be nice to know the temperature needed to clean glass better than if using cold water. No point boiling it all up then wanting it to cool down so yyou don't break the glass.

[Nathanael Jones]

Nathaneal, did you think about having the heater in your shed/garage or wherever and heat the water as it went into your tank?

You'd have to start the process early in the morning would be one drawback I think.

Or is your water heated from cold when it comes out of the tank and into the di resins?

If you ahd the heater in the garage this would save space in the van. 

Sorry,.. missed this post yesterday!!

It is possible to heat the water at home,.. I know a few DI only guys have tried hot by filling up from the kitchen hot tap in the morning!

The reasons I don't do it this way are:
1. It'd use a lot more gas, eg. Heating an entire tank when some days I come home still half full.
2. I'd be stuck with hot,... with single glazing or historic glass I  turn the heater off.
3. Hot water will reduce the lifespan of the pump.

The water doesn't really need to be very hot at all to make a difference. In the winter you really notice the difference. I've a digital thermometer in my van tank, and last winter I was cleaning windows with water below 3 degrees Celcius. Being a bit paranoid about cracking glass from the heat, I had the heater set to its absolute minimum when I first installed it, which heated the water to 22 degrees,... it really made a big difference even at that lukewarm temp!

Most days I work at about 40 Degree's,.. not very hot, but it really makes a difference.

[Wayne Thomas]

I've found that heating the water in your van tank, then running it through the pump shortens the life of the pumps. I prefer to use hot water on demand after the heater rather than use hot water after a pump.

[Guy Gibson]

I guess it's a fine balancing act.

[NWH]

I've found that heating the water in your van tank, then running it through the pump shortens the life of the pumps. I prefer to use hot water on demand after the heater rather than use hot water after a pump.

Omnipole normally put the heater after pump.

[Wayne Thomas]

I've found that heating the water in your van tank, then running it through the pump shortens the life of the pumps. I prefer to use hot water on demand after the heater rather than use hot water after a pump.

Omnipole normally put the heater after pump.

NWH,

you are absolutely right because you looked into getting one earlier this year. 

I am refering to the fact that if I pre-heat my van tank and then try running hot water through the pump I start getting lots of trouble with the pump sticking all the time and then having to replace it because it's unreliable.

I'll only pre-heat the tank a small amount in the winter to keep all the hoses and pump warm-ish (luke warm to stop them freezing overnight. Otherwise I prefer to draw cold water through the pump and heat it (on demand as and when required), through the heater and run it straight out the hosereel to WF Pole.

[Nathanael Jones]

I got a heat exchanger today which I'm going to get a mechanic to plumb into the van's coolant system (Tee'd in where the pipes to the heater matrix go through the bulkhead).

The plan is that the excess heat from the engine will be used to heat the WFP tank. It'll only add 5 or 10 degree's heat to the tank,.. and I'll have a valve to stop the flow should the tank get too warm,.. but it'll be handy in the winter and will reduce my gas usage slightly too.

[Wayne Thomas]

I got a heat exchanger today which I'm going to get a mechanic to plumb into the van's coolant system (Tee'd in where the pipes to the heater matrix go through the bulkhead).

The plan is that the excess heat from the engine will be used to heat the WFP tank. It'll only add 5 or 10 degree's heat to the tank,.. and I'll have a valve to stop the flow should the tank get too warm,.. but it'll be handy in the winter and will reduce my gas usage slightly too.

Nathanael...

I've got a heat exchanger as I'm sure you know. It's called a calorifier tank. It may surprise you but the heat of the water stored in it is a minimum of 80 degrees celsius. The good thing is that it stays hot for up to 24 hours. Best piece of kit for storing hot water.

Nathanael, when you get it fitted make sure you top up the radiator filling tank, run the engine for a good 30 mins and top up if necessary. They're easy enough to install yourself. If you fitted your heater, you should have no problems fitting your heat exchanger.

[Nathanael Jones]

I'm going to heat the main tank directly for now,.. but a calorifier tank has been on my mind for ages. It's simple, costs nothing to run and if it ever gets cold you just run the engine again for a while! Pity they're so expensive though.

[Wayne Thomas]

With a calorifier tank you have to make sure it has antifreeze going though the heating coils as it becomes part of the radiator system. The de-ionised water stored in it is heated up indirectly simply because of the antifreeze otherwise the water would be contaminated.

[Nathanael Jones]

What I got is a slimline heater matrix which I'll get plumbed in and simply drop into the bottom of the tank. Not nearly as efficient as a calorifier, but it'll be enough to keep the frost away this winter.

My only concern is the matrix contaminating the water, so I'm going to scrum & rinse it thourougly with pure before it goes in, and put an extra DI after the tank just to be sure.

[Wayne Thomas]

Nathanael... Is the matrix stainless steel or inca alloy? If it is then you won't have to worry about contaminating your water. If it's not then you're best fitting a DI after the tank to be on the safe side. Can you email me (easycleanwayne@msn.com) a pic or two of the matrix and where you got it please.

I've thought about getting a tank fabricated with a removeable lid that can be secured easily and quickly. Then fitting some plumbing inside it similar style to how a radiator works and connecting it up directly to the vans radiator with a bypass to control the heat source to heat my DI water stored in the tank.  Would definitely be a free to run hot wfp system once the plumbing and tank has been bought. What's your views on this subject?

[Nathanael Jones]

I'll take some pics later,... looks stainless to me!

I think your idea about the plumbing in the tank would work great. My concerns would be it working too well and you'd be stuck running hot water through your pump constantly! Also you'd be stuck with hot water for every job, even historic glass and single glazing.

I had a similar idea but was thinking it'd be ideal with a 2 tank setup where you kept 1 tank cold and some kind of thermostatic mixing valve,.... but my experience so far with mixing valves is that they aren't very effective at the low flow rates we use.

[Wayne Thomas]

I'll take some pics later,... looks stainless to me!

I think your idea about the plumbing in the tank would work great. My concerns would be it working too well and you'd be stuck running hot water through your pump constantly! Also you'd be stuck with hot water for every job, even historic glass and single glazing.

I had a similar idea but was thinking it'd be ideal with a 2 tank setup where you kept 1 tank cold and some kind of thermostatic mixing valve,.... but my experience so far with mixing valves is that they aren't very effective at the low flow rates we use.

On the tank plumbing from and to the radiator, all you have to do is fit a bypass (for the tank), so that it doesn't run through the tank when it's warm enough. Keep It Simple Stupid. It will work. I won't bother with it until I get my new van but I have the idea well and truly impregnated in my head for my new set up when I do away with the calorifier tank.