[macmac]

Where are you dudes, miss your posts & input to the forum. I've not been as cyber active of late so i may have missed summat. I know DJW left but was hoping he would have re-joined by now. If you have dave let us know your new user ID. MATT (diy matt) seems to have just gone too
 Maybe it's the sudden influx of one-up-manship wannabe Alan Sugars, i don't know but 2 genuine, knowlageable, honest guys are missing!

Come back, some of us are getting out-numbered!

Tony

[LWC]

"now just you listen here sonny jim, i remember the day when we used to use a bit of spit and elbow grease"

[john tomkins]

DJW has gotta be reading these boards, with his input and thirst for new ideas/equipment there is no way he'd just leave and not come back.
Hi DJW, get back posting

[cvdewsbury]

 Maybe it's the sudden influx of one-up-manship wannabe Alan Sugars, i don't know but 2 genuine, knowlageable, honest guys are missing!

Come back, some of us are getting out-numbered!

Tony

Don't know how to take mac macs slightly derogated comment ... to me everyone on here has a special talent just being self employed and providing for themself and family been the main one!!

[ftp]

I'm back!! (DJW) Never went too far, still reading but just can't be arsed to post to be honest. I spent too long reading about massive ego's and general bitching so i'm just sitting on the sideline if you like. Thanks for your concern Tony. 

[macmac]

I'm back!! (DJW) Never went too far, still reading but just can't be arsed to post to be honest. I spent too long reading about massive ego's and general bitching so i'm just sitting on the sideline if you like. Thanks for your concern Tony. 

Nice one matey, glad you're still about & doing ok. how you getting on with the sl-x?

As for the ego's, i tend to sit back & laugh at it, remember it's an open forum so just take the bits you want & discard the rest!

Tony

[Alex Gardiner]

I'm back!! (DJW) Never went too far, still reading but just can't be arsed to post to be honest. I spent too long reading about massive ego's and general bitching so i'm just sitting on the sideline if you like. Thanks for your concern Tony. 

Welcome back 

[sjm]

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. ( Godfather film quote ) .  Nice to see you are still with us 

[Neil271052]

Not so much want to be Alan Sugar, Just window cleaners keeping up with the times and wanting to be moving forward realistically. In a fast changing industry with new innovation and rules come new people and fresh ideas.

It's really only just wiping a bit of water around on a bit of glass at the end of the day though isn't it? 

Not rocket science

[Clive McDonald]

Okay then if you are all so smart, smart enought to be Alan Sugar's apprentice maybe, heres something...

I admitt I didn't spot DJW, and well done to him by the way for speaking up..

But what about mattb have you spotted him yet?

[Neil271052]

If you are right, what’s the point of all these post? Or any of the forum sections on window cleaning?

The point of  a forum is to get like minded people or people with similar interests /jobs etc together for chat about what interests them, swap experiences and let off a bit of steam .

I post on other types of forums (watches, antiques) as well and it usually a pleasant experience.

Anecdotes about window cleaning which we can all enjoy and have a laugh about are preferable IMO to someone who posts thinking  they are the latest Howard Hughes. 

As I said, business models etc etc are fine in the world of commerce but with window cleaning it is just getting customers at the right price and then sloshing a bit of water around on a piece of glass.

No more complicated than that. 

[Neil271052]

Why do you and others have to jump to the extremes? From being a self employed window cleaner to Howard Hughes or Alan Sugar these types of business people are super capitalist and are a very unique breed.

There is thousands of different size of businesses in between the sole trader and famous capitalist.

Of course there are

Just because you have reached your level, doesn’t mean everybody else has to stop at your level. The forum is just not for your level of understanding of window cleaning.

Are there higher levels of window cleaning understanding?

Can you get a degree in window cleaning? LOL

there are people on here who employ dozens of staff and I’m sure for them there is more to it than sloshing  a bit of water around on a piece of glass.

There are indeed but aside from the aspects of employing people which are reasonably simple with an accountant and a payroll firm what does it all come down to..........."getting customers at the right price and sloshing some water around on a piece of glass."

They tend to post less not only because they are busy. 

What does that mean? Please try and construct meaningful sentences.

Because the forum has your type always expressing you view on a subject you no nothing about.

I "know" how to spell and construct meaningful sentences which go down well at board meetings.

I have  a business background, do you?

When really they have the real experience and knowledge of a larger window cleaning business that a lot on this forum could really benefit from regardless of whether you remain sole trader. 

Disagree.

How can somebody who wants to remain a  sole trader learn from a larger window cleaning business?

They don't need to know about employment law, VAT etc.

It's the same job in a bigger way.

[macmac]

I can't understand why anyone would think a w/c'er who's a sole trader & doesn't want to expand beyond that status is somehow a cowboy

Ewan, do you have any idea what a sole trader w/c'er can earn? :

Tony

[Neil271052]

It’s not my way or my opinion, there are different ways to actually run your business as a sole trader some are requirements others not, but you have the option.

Out of interest Ewan and assuming everything is above board and legal what are the different ways a sole trader can run a window cleaning  business?

Or is it really just as I said,

.........."getting customers at the right price and sloshing some water around on a piece of glass."

[Neil271052]

Neil if you are a window cleaner, I bet your round is very compact and your probably only work part time.

Of course it is.

  I work four hours a day for full time money although I had already made my fortune in the outdoor advertising business I ran for 25 years. I was a partner in a Carburetter and tuning firm before that. Own my large detached Surrey home outright, I do alright.

With the greatest respect to you I don't think there is much I can be taught about business in the real world but at the end of the day you have to be honest and look at  the basis of the actual service or product you provide  and not try to gloss it up as something it is not

So your description of getting the right price and then sloshing water about is how you would describe your business.

But of course that is how everybody else runs there business, according to you, you’re right because it’s your opinion.

It is how any window cleaner, sole trader, big business big or small makes his money and I challenge you to tell me different.

Nothing to do with the actual reality of business. Just your opinion and what’s that worth to anybody who doesn’t have an identical setup as you, nothing.

 

That is the reality of a window cleaning business and as I said before and I quote....

"Out of interest Ewan and assuming everything is above board and legal what are the different ways a sole trader can run a window cleaning  business?"


You still haven't answered my question.  and I doubt you will.

[David Slater]

Neil if you are a window cleaner, I bet your round is very compact and your probably only work part time.

Of course it is.

  I work four hours a day for full time money although I had already made my fortune in the outdoor advertising business I ran for 25 years. I was a partner in a Carburetter and tuning firm before that. Own my large detached Surrey home outright, I do alright.

With the greatest respect to you I don't think there is much I can be taught about business in the real world but at the end of the day you have to be honest and look at  the basis of the actual service or product you provide  and not try to gloss it up as something it is not

So your description of getting the right price and then sloshing water about is how you would describe your business.

But of course that is how everybody else runs there business, according to you, you’re right because it’s your opinion.

It is how any window cleaner, sole trader, big business big or small makes his money and I challenge you to tell me different.

Nothing to do with the actual reality of business. Just your opinion and what’s that worth to anybody who doesn’t have an identical setup as you, nothing.

 

That is the reality of a window cleaning business and as I said before and I quote....

"Out of interest Ewan and assuming everything is above board and legal what are the different ways a sole trader can run a window cleaning  business?"


You still haven't answered my question.  and I doubt you will.

Neil,

With all due respect you seem to be pigeon holing every person on this forum.

As already mentioned, there is a world of difference between a part-time w/c, a full time w/c and an employer.

Are you really suggesting that someone who starts part-time, then progresses to full time, then employs others, then hits VAT thresholds, then submits tenders for council work.. are really all "just sloshing a bit of water about" ?

You dont think maybe there will be hiccups on that road?

You dont think others with vastly more experience could help you plan that road  and make your life just that little bit easier?

If you're happy working alone and you're happy at the level you're at, then thats brilliant.

For those that would like to grow their business there are hundreds of questions  they need answers to....and employing an accountant will not solve most of them.
   
Heres few things that spring to mind over and above "sloshing a bit of water about"

Limited Liability (pro's and con's)
VAT threshold
ISOH accreditation
Safe Contractor accreditation
Advertising
FWC or other trade body membership
Health & Safety
Risk assessments
ISO accreditation
IPAF accreditation
Employment Contracts
Your responsibilities as an employer
Health and Safety at work act
....the list goes on 

If you are suggesting my corner shop is in some way comparable to Tesco then I would beg to differ.
Two extremes I know, but both are "just selling some stuff to customers" are they not?

You need to plan a business. Just waiting for "stuff to happen" is in no way running a business.

[Neil271052]

Neil,

With all due respect you seem to be pigeon holing every person on this forum.

The fact that people are on this forum pigeon holes them as window cleaners does it not?

As already mentioned, there is a world of difference between a part-time w/c, a full time w/c and an employer.

Are you really suggesting that someone who starts part-time, then progresses to full time, then employs others, then hits VAT thresholds, then submits tenders for council work.. are really all "just sloshing a bit of water about" ?

You dont think maybe there will be hiccups on that road?

You dont think others with vastly more experience could help you plan that road  and make your life just that little bit easier?

I agree and don't forget I did all this over many years in my previous businesses when there wasn't any internet to go to.

If you're happy working alone and you're happy at the level you're at, then thats brilliant.

Thank you. 

For those that would like to grow their business there are hundreds of questions  they need answers to....and employing an accountant will not solve most of them.

I would respectfully disagree here. My firm of chartered accountants kept me on the right road over many years. The partners there have many years of experience of all sorts of companies.

   
Heres few things that spring to mind over and above "sloshing a bit of water about"

Limited Liability (pro's and con's)
VAT threshold
ISOH accreditation
Safe Contractor accreditation
Advertising
FWC or other trade body membership
Health & Safety
Risk assessments
ISO accreditation
IPAF accreditation
Employment Contracts
Your responsibilities as an employer
Health and Safety at work act
....the list goes on 

Of course there is more paperwork around now (of course) and the HSE was just coming into fashion when I retired but how is any of the above difficult?

If you are suggesting my corner shop is in some way comparable to Tesco then I would beg to differ.
Two extremes I know, but both are "just selling some stuff to customers" are they not?

........and I would say they are extremely comparable. Not in size but in what they are trying to do.

You need to plan a business. Just waiting for "stuff to happen" is in no way running a business.

And all the business plans in the world are no good if you don't have customers at the right price and don't splash some water about.

You can draft business plans until you are blue in the face but if you don't have the aforesaid well priced customers and water splashing ability you are going nowhere.

Don't forget I have done it all before and reasonably successfully I must say.

I've seen it all the time, people who just want to hold meetings all the time without getting to the nitty gritty.

Thanks for your input. 

[Neil271052]

How can you work part time and earn full time money?

It depends what you call full time money of course but I can earn £50 an hour for four hours  a day and that does me. Three semis an hour at £18 each is easily achieved.

One of my customers has a family business been established over 70 years, I have been trading 1 year. When we discuss business she says you never stop learning. Unlike what you say, you don’t think there is much you can be taught about business.

True but  I have always concentrated on the viability of the money side and let professionals deal with the paperwork.

I understand what you are saying about the end product/service which is all that you seem to understand. Sole traders clean windows; large window cleaning companies cleans windows.

The answer to your question is blindingly obvious, maybe that’s why you can’t see it. You need to relax take a deep breath read your question again with an open mind.

If you can’t do that, stick with your own opinion? That’s all it is. 

Well of course it is. The same as anyone else who posts on here.

You have been trading one year, I have been in different businesses for 30 years which have served me very well.  I'll stick to my own methods if you don't mind.

[David Slater]

Neil,

With all due respect you seem to be pigeon holing every person on this forum.

The fact that people are on this forum pigeon holes them as window cleaners does it not?

As already mentioned, there is a world of difference between a part-time w/c, a full time w/c and an employer.

Are you really suggesting that someone who starts part-time, then progresses to full time, then employs others, then hits VAT thresholds, then submits tenders for council work.. are really all "just sloshing a bit of water about" ?

You dont think maybe there will be hiccups on that road?

You dont think others with vastly more experience could help you plan that road  and make your life just that little bit easier?

I agree and don't forget I did all this over many years in my previous businesses when there wasn't any internet to go to.

If you're happy working alone and you're happy at the level you're at, then thats brilliant.

Thank you. 

For those that would like to grow their business there are hundreds of questions  they need answers to....and employing an accountant will not solve most of them.

I would respectfully disagree here. My firm of chartered accountants kept me on the right road over many years. The partners there have many years of experience of all sorts of companies.

   
Heres few things that spring to mind over and above "sloshing a bit of water about"

Limited Liability (pro's and con's)
VAT threshold
ISOH accreditation
Safe Contractor accreditation
Advertising
FWC or other trade body membership
Health & Safety
Risk assessments
ISO accreditation
IPAF accreditation
Employment Contracts
Your responsibilities as an employer
Health and Safety at work act
....the list goes on 

Of course there is more paperwork around now (of course) and the HSE was just coming into fashion when I retired but how is any of the above difficult?

If you are suggesting my corner shop is in some way comparable to Tesco then I would beg to differ.
Two extremes I know, but both are "just selling some stuff to customers" are they not?

........and I would say they are extremely comparable. Not in size but in what they are trying to do.

You need to plan a business. Just waiting for "stuff to happen" is in no way running a business.

And all the business plans in the world are no good if you don't have customers at the right price and don't splash some water about.

You can draft business plans until you are blue in the face but if you don't have the aforesaid well priced customers and water splashing ability you are going nowhere.

Don't forget I have done it all before and reasonably successfully I must say.

I've seen it all the time, people who just want to hold meetings all the time without getting to the nitty gritty.

Thanks for your input. 

I would disagree. Not all on this forum are 'window cleaners' some are managing their business and some are indeed 'window cleaners'. There is a difference.

It wasnt my point to suggest that any of the above was difficult. It was more that not all is relevant (depending on size) to everybody on this forum. That there is a natural progression and you should be looking forward if you want to grow.

I too use a firm a Chartered Accountants. I doubt very much he would be able to advise me on H&S or IPAF  ...and lets not forget the costs involved with asking them questions!

To suggest my corner shop and Tesco are comparable is very silly indeed. One has massive expansion plans and growth projections while managing its business which it aims to meet. My corner shop sells "stuff".
The aim is the same( to sell "stuff") granted. The level and sophistication (and profit) achieved is somewhat different.

[sjm]

Thought this was about DJW & MATT