[Ian Gourlay]

There are two if not three new to the UK machines that some of you are mavelling about.

What is the Water Lift on the Eclipse
and Eds Machine The Recoil

If you put in 4 buckets of water how many do you get back.

[paul@ctcs]

The Eclipse with the three vac motors in series will generate far more lift than the recoil 3 which has very high air flow, this is due to running the vacuums in parallel.

Being one of the lucky ones who owns an Eclipse i can vouch for its power which really does produce amazing drying times, yesterday cleaned my stairs and they were dry in under an hour

The water lift on the machine is 249" not sure about the recoil but these figures will mean nothing when comparing these machines due to there designs, the only comparison worth while would be a head to head in the flesh plastic 

Paul

P.S, which is the 3rd machine???

[paul@ctcs]

Hi Chris,

Not sure about that?? I know Nick has used an Eclipse with very long hoses and still achieved quick drying times.
 I would imagine the very powerful sucking force of the Eclipse's VO setup is able to quickly drop air pressure over decent lenghts of hose therefore maintaining effective lift at the wand tip.

Regarding leaving the machine in the van I dont see this as a huge advantage but do plan to leave the machine outside when cleaning domestic properties.

Paul

[lee_gundry]

chris

if you are going to run the unit from a van why not go for a TRUE DEEP CLEANING machine ,fuel truckmount.

you can get a good second hand set up for less than a new portable.


Lee G

[paul@ctcs]

What kind of lift does the average TM produce??

Paul

[lee_gundry]

paul

the average truckmount is usally set approx 15" of mercury lift,this can be lowerd of set higher if the user wishes,but will affect units warrenty.


Lee G

[paul@ctcs]

Lee,

 Here is what Clean Craft state on there web site

"The Eclipse offers models with 3 Vacuum Motors that produce 249" Water-Lift (almost 18" Mercury-Lift)"

Wow thats more than a TM

Paul

[lee_gundry]

paul

dont get confused,even the chemspec 860 truckmount fitted with a 56 blower is not set at 18" lift,the setting of 15" is approx standard from the prochem blazer through to the chemspec 860,even though the lift is the same the cfm is miles different.the lift is only a part of the true power of the machines.measurments on truckmount are taken from a larger diameter tube than a portable maybe 100% bigger so the measurment you have posted is only a measurment of that unit,A numatic henry can achive the same lift as you have qouted but through a smaller diameter tube.

cfm & lift need to be in balance.

what cfm does the unit produce???


Lee G

[paul@ctcs]

I know just trying to get you TM boys going

Paul

[Dynafoam]

Lee,

The open-port cfm of the Eclipse is about the same as that of a machine fitted with a single 3-stage vac unit.

This obviously does not mean that the two would perform identically.

As you have indicated, both airflow and total vacuum potential are important, the balance between the two is the subject of a great deal of unresolved debate.

For those with further interest in this subject see:

 http://www.another forum.co.uk/?board=carp_clng;action=display;num=1082290089;start=0#6

[Ian Gourlay]

I thought the Ninja produced abput 24O so thats why I asked how many buckets do you get back.

I do realise it will vary per carpet

How do you measure almost dry.

Is there a moisture meter to carry out this test.

[Doug Holloway]

Ian,

I think part of your original question was very interesting but nobody has answered it,i.e what percentage of water is recovered?

Manufactures can argue endlessly about AO vs VO,series vs parallel, etc but what we need to know is how much water is left in the carpet as this must be directly linked to the drying time.

What we need are direct comparisons .

Cheers,

Doug

[Dynafoam]

Doug,

Recovery rates can be deceptive.

For any given machine the percentage of water recovered will vary dependant on the amount put down.

To exaggerate for the sake of illustration; the most powerful truck mounted extraction cleaner made might produce a recovery rate of only 10% if used with a single-jet wand fitted with a very small jet - though the carpet would feel pretty much dry instantly. A less powerful machine which is severely over-jetted could have a recovery rate of 95% yet leave the carpet soaked.

Another factor is that a high airflow portable tends to have a higher vapour-loss, especially in association with hot water.

[mark_roberts]

Having done quite a bit research on these machines and petrol truckmounts at the end of the day the numbers more or less are useless its real life performance on the carpet at 150ft is what counts.

Manufactureres will hype their figures.  Example the recoil is sold with 300cfm while the Blazer is sold with 250cfm.  Whats that mean exactly I dont know as none of the manufacturers have a 'code' for measuring performance.

If your planning on buying a high performance portable to be truckmounted I would try before you buy as you may not like the performance or 4 leads lying about the place.  On the otherhand you may love it.

I love using texatherm and recommend it but is has a cfm of 0 and its lift is heavy.

Mark

[Doug Holloway]

John,

When I say a direct comparison I mean 10 litres ,say to clean a 15 square metre carpet and record how much is recovered.

Cheers,

Doug

[Dynafoam]

Doug,

When I first built an AO machine, one of the first jobs I used it on was a large, filthy nightclub (Mr B's, Southend).

After the first 30 gallons I checked the bucket boys tally sheet and thought he had miss-recorded, because the percentage recovered had dropped below what I had expected. after the second 30 gallons the recovery ration was the same as the first batch.

Other sections of the club were being cleaned with a VO machine and its' recovery ratios were 'normal' and higher than the AO machine.

Those sections of carpet that had been cleaned with the AO machine dried slightly faster than the rest. (This all within the same building).

Over the years my experience has been along similar lines - in fact I no longer closely record recovery ratios - just monitor dryness. as long as I can walk on every carpet wearing white cotton socks before I leave, I deem that to be good enough 

[Ivar_Haglund]

No problems with the recoil with extreem cold weather I cant use a truck mount in the winter or live in the truck very long must bring inside. I do get better dry times in the winter because of the lower moisture content in the air.
i too never watch recovery just dry times

IVAR

[Ian Gourlay]

How do you measure dry times or are carpets dry before you left.

Some manufactures claim dry times of less than hour using HWE.

[Doug Holloway]

Ian,

There are so many factors affecting drying times that less than an hour is easily possible if everything is in your favour.

10 hours is also possible if factors are against.

I still prefer the logical approach of the less water you leave in a carpet , the quicker it will dry given all other factors equal.

I know it is not completely straighforward and where the water is in the carpet  will affect its drying,i.e if most of the residual water is on or near the surface of the carpet  , then it will dry quicker , than if a lot of residual water is at the base due to the greater airflow.

When appying several coats of sealant /polish to a dance floor last week,  it was evident that areas quite close to each other dried at very different rates, much more so that I would have expected.This is obviously down to airflow as the temperature would have been almost constant.

Cheers,

Doug

[simon coller]

can anyone tell us the capital cost of the eclipse and its state of origin