[nat]

i never offered lion, i was hoping to win the auction, it was always worth the asking price, i was hoping to get it cheaper but i would of paid around 11 for it. did you see it on ebay before it got posted on here in the for sale section??

[Ian Rochester]

Yes I did, so you can let Jon-scwindows off the hook for informing everyone of it, I hate it when that happens.

I wasn't looking for that type of van, I was just browsing and was actually looking for a newer van, ideally a transporter.

However when I saw it, I got my ionics brochure out, found the new price for the system alone (not fitted, not speedlined) was £8700 +vat and similar vans on autotrader were up for between £8-10K, proper speedlining costs £500+, poles worth approx £300-400.

So the whole package had to be worth £16K+, bit of a no brainer really.  I thought I would get gazumped somewhere along the line but luckily he was after a quick deal and I could accommodate.

When I get it all liveried up I'll stick a photo on here.

[nat]

ok can we change the subject as i'm starting to feel sick that i never took his arm off for it

[edd]

lionheart here are some things that will save you a shed load of money

1. convert to a 25 ltr di
2. bag of resin last about a year £ 75 Ionic cartridge £85 last about 3 months
3.convert to heating oil 48 p per ltr diesel £124
4. this is a MUST convert the heating part with a thermostatic valve and regulate the temp to 26 degrees max
or you will break glass I know and have 3 times it not funny
5 use a digital thermometer about £ 12 at a cook shop

sorry to go on but this does save a lot of money and time .......and saves you time explaining to custy how u broke there windows with the hot water here are some pics

[Ian Rochester]

I have a spare DI cannister anyway so if need be it's not a problem to fit that inline at the outfeed.

When I ran it hot yesterday it was reading nearly 70 deg on the dial and it was bl**dy hot! There doesn't appear to be any method of regulating the temperature of the water.

I did wonder what might be the end result of putting near boiling water on a piece of glass that could be sitting at minus 10c, I think the phrase is "Thermal Shock!" followed by "CRACK", followed by a lot of expletives!

I quite like the fact that it gets it's fuel from the vehicles main tank, however I will monitor the fuel usage on the van and if it starts getting excessive I'll look at converting it.
 
Why do I need a digital thermometer as the system is fitted with a temperature guage?

[Clive McDonald]

There's no way an eight grand system doesn't have some kind of control on it. I thought one of the current users was helping you.

I've cracked two panes with my system (lpg on demand £1 per day) but that was my fault for having it too hot and I can control my temperature.Currently it is set to low which still comes out quite warm. I don't use a thermometer because this doesn't predict the temperature through the hose.

This time of year it comes out hotter anyway as less heat is lost via the hose.

[Wayne Thomas]

There's no need to use hot water all the time. I only use it when I'm doing salty windows, windows constantly being bombarded by the birds, new cleans and cladding or conservatory roofs if they're really green.

[U.S. wfp USER]

lionheart here are some things that will save you a shed load of money

1. convert to a 25 ltr di
2. bag of resin last about a year £ 75 Ionic cartridge £85 last about 3 months
3.convert to heating oil 48 p per ltr diesel £124
4. this is a MUST convert the heating part with a thermostatic valve and regulate the temp to 26 degrees max
or you will break glass I know and have 3 times it not funny
5 use a digital thermometer about £ 12 at a cook shop

sorry to go on but this does save a lot of money and time .......and saves you time explaining to custy how u broke there windows with the hot water here are some pics

26 degrees max?  Many times in the summer months or in the direct sun, glass is much hotter then that to begin with.

Whats the point of the hot water system if you can't make the glass any hotter then it is to begin with?

[NWH]

Exactly,i was working last week in hot weather and was thinking the very same thing.It was dry in next to no time as the glass was baking hot and hot water would have been a waste of time as it was hot when hitting the glass,(wait for the stupid comments about cold water evaporating)in the winter if it`s to hot it cracks the glass so where`s the use there.If you ask me cold in the summer and a drop of isopropanol in the winter.

[U.S. wfp USER]

Exactly,i was working last week in hot weather and was thinking the very same thing.It was dry in next to no time as the glass was baking hot and hot water would have been a waste of time as it was hot when hitting the glass,(wait for the stupid comments about cold water evaporating)in the winter if it`s to hot it cracks the glass so where`s the use there.If you ask me cold in the summer and a drop of isopropanol in the winter.

I'm not suggesting there is not use for the hot water system.  My point is that I believe that the 26 degrees is too low.  We have tested hot water systems much hotter then that and had no issues. 

These 'broken panes' are they insulated glass windows or are they single pane windows?

[Ian Rochester]

I would have thought that Ionics would have thought about this in the design stage and overcome this issue, so before I go any further I have Steve from Ionics coming up next week to talk me through it, I'm sure that everything is working fine on it, I'm just not sure how everything works and there are probably things on there that I don't even realise yet.  Dale talked me through the basics but his set up sounds like it is slightly different to mine.

From what I have seen of the system working and what I have heard from others, this system is the dogs dangly bits when it comes to hot water WFP, at the moment it is the operator who is the weak link!  

I am expecting that we will be predominantly using the system as a cold water system, but you never know, if we find that the hot water gives superior results in every case, then we'll use it as such.

I welcome all comments and advice, however I will run the system as it is designed to be run until such a time that I think I know better.  At the end of the day we got the system for a fraction of it's cost new and probably cheaper than a lot of lesser quality cold water systems that are being advertised.

Time will tell.

[Wayne Thomas]

If two window cleaners are cleaning heavily soiled windows, one with a cold WFP system and the other with a hot WFP system, the one using the hot WFP system will when hands down everytime. Someone should set up a comparison just to prove the obvious.

[U.S. wfp USER]

If two window cleaners are cleaning heavily soiled windows, one with a cold WFP system and the other with a hot WFP system, the one using the hot WFP system will when hands down everytime. Someone should set up a comparison just to prove the obvious.

Wayne,

You've got a hot water system I do believe.  Which one is it?

What temp do you usually work at?

[Clive McDonald]

auh contraire, not so. Hot, warm, however you want to describe it, it's better.

As for cracking glass upvc frames and windows can take near boiling, it's only wooden older and thick opqque glass that gives problems.

You are allowed to do it a different way and I don't know about isopropanol, but hot works, all seasons, all situations.

Just seen your last post usa, mine were bathroom scolloped glass in wooden frame, also small panes rather than larger.

[Neil Williams]

These 'broken panes' are they insulated glass windows or are they single pane windows?

These will be single glazed units.

[Wayne Thomas]

Mines the Omnipole one with a set temperature of 60 degrees.
There are several ways of reducing the temperature in winter so that you're not using water that is too hot so you don't crack any panes of glass.
The main advantage of a hot WFP system in the cold winter is the ability to continue working when cold WFP users have to take their hoses and stuff out of their vans overnight or put heaters in their vans if the temperature drops below freezing or struggle with water freezing in their hoses or pump.
In the summer, the glass is hot with the sun baking on it for hours so there is less need for a hot WFP system as the heat of the sun will warm the water stored in hose laying on the ground anyway. However the water can dry too quickly so more water is needed sometimes to ensure all the dirt has thoroughly been loosened and removed in comparison to a normal wash on a typical cloudy day.

[U.S. wfp USER]

Mines the Omnipole one with a set temperature of 60 degrees.
There are several ways of reducing the temperature in winter so that you're not using water that is too hot so you don't crack any panes of glass.
The main advantage of a hot WFP system in the cold winter is the ability to continue working when cold WFP users have to take their hoses and stuff out of their vans overnight or put heaters in their vans if the temperature drops below freezing or struggle with water freezing in their hoses or pump.
In the summer, the glass is hot with the sun baking on it for hours so there is less need for a hot WFP system as the heat of the sun will warm the water stored in hose laying on the ground anyway. However the water can dry too quickly so more water is needed sometimes to ensure all the dirt has thoroughly been loosened and removed in comparison to a normal wash on a typical cloudy day.

So, does the system provide an advantage over cold water in the summer due to the fact that the hot water will act differently then cold water on hot glass?

[Clive McDonald]

I Think so, although you didn;t ask me. but forget the glass additionaly the cleaning of the frames and sills is better ,less time sonsuming, and nearly perfect. If the brush is contaminateed for any reason it clears very fast. I could go from a filthy gutter straight onto a window. (I would go back for a quick rinse after next window).

The reason I can run hot is that the cost is negligible.

We've all got our opinions, but i run hot always and much prefer it. The only con I can think of is milky paint work but I could think of twenty pros

[Wayne Thomas]

So, does the system provide an advantage over cold water in the summer due to the fact that the hot water will act differently then cold water on hot glass?

It does IF you are cleaning heavily soiled windows (new cleans), heavily bombarded windows from the birds, salted windows. Simply because it's much quicker to scrub the glass thus saving time, effort and energy.
I forgot to mention I use it for showery days / foggy days so the water I put on the glass dries before the the rain / dirt in the air contaminates the water on the glass so my cleans remain cleaned.

[edd]

well all I know is that the windows I broke were double glazed and quite new !!!! so your theory of the old
stuff is out the window so to speak

ok 26 degrees might be a little low for really hot days but imo its hot enough for early mornings mid and afternoon
work without running to the van and turning it down .......in the front of the house it might be bloody hot BUT the back is a different story as you all know