[Alex Wingrove]

so i take it squeaky and groundhog will be prepared to part with £10 if we can make it work?

[groundhog]

Alex if you can organise it I would gladly part with a tenner!! 

[Spursboy1972]

Thing is with Ionics they have an exceptional marketing team and must spend thousands each year in trying to brainwash everybody. Somebody has to pay for that. Who is it? The end user of course. It is why they are so much more expensive, you are buying a concept.

One thing I have seen with my own eyes is the clamps that fix to the chasis are in fact galvanised. If you look at the pictures in the mag they show the progression of the clamps from their inception.I have a friend who welds and fabricates stainless steel and alloys, he says they are easy to make. Thjey are then made to look nice by being galvanised. It is not the system as such that has been given the approval but the clamps themselves, hence why the number is on that part. So whats my point.

Someone else I know (theres 2!!) had an ionics system in his van. He had to remove it from the van (2 many reasons to list) and low and behold they had to cut it out, why? because although the clamps are galvanised the bolts are not and they had rusted over 3 years so they weremore likely to snap and they certainly would not release.

Surely this cannot be good. We all know how aggressive pure water can be and these bolts showed that. Rusty metal is weak metal so I would think that could make it just as dangerous as say another system fitted in your van?

[Alex Wingrove]

Good i will go about making plans

I think we need

an old van maybe a transit, £400
another car £50
pickup truck for taking away the old van and car £100
cameras, free if we can find some people to help,
location need some private land
tank £200
ratchet straps £70
eye bolts £10


anyone else go any ideas

[L.J.Thorpe]

anyone got any stats on how many window cleaners have been killed by being crushed by their tanks during road accident : :

[Wayne Thomas]

Thing is with Ionics they have an exceptional marketing team and must spend thousands each year in trying to brainwash everybody. Somebody has to pay for that. Who is it? The end user of course. It is why they are so much more expensive, you are buying a concept.

One thing I have seen with my own eyes is the clamps that fix to the chasis are in fact galvanised. If you look at the pictures in the mag they show the progression of the clamps from their inception.I have a friend who welds and fabricates stainless steel and alloys, he says they are easy to make. Thjey are then made to look nice by being galvanised. It is not the system as such that has been given the approval but the clamps themselves, hence why the number is on that part. So whats my point.

Someone else I know (theres 2!!) had an ionics system in his van. He had to remove it from the van (2 many reasons to list) and low and behold they had to cut it out, why? because although the clamps are galvanised the bolts are not and they had rusted over 3 years so they weremore likely to snap and they certainly would not release.

Surely this cannot be good. We all know how aggressive pure water can be and these bolts showed that. Rusty metal is weak metal so I would think that could make it just as dangerous as say another system fitted in your van?

Rusty bolts (not galvanised) is the weakest link in the suppose to be safe tank fitting. I've welded all sorts to armoured tanks and I'd never use untreated bolts to secure something that important.

[jeff1]

I think it said in the mag that no w/c had been killed as yet, but we all know the reality of this and its only time that will tell.

It doesnt matter how many tests are carried out, I think we should all take it very seriously that even a 25ltr container flying through your van and smashing into you and causing you some damage.
 
Some guy's are misled that thinking the bulkhead will stop a tank, take a look at the flimsy welds thats holding your bulkhead to your van and do you think it will stop your 300ltr tank in a  crash at 40mph? Think again guy's.

The only thing I'm trying to get across, is get that tank held down properly and fasten it to the chassis useing high tensile steel nuts and bolts, I did a post some time back saying how to do it, I even said how to tighten the nuts and bolts correctly useing star washers.
Don't be that first casualty do it properly guy's.

[*foxman]

Surely the test encompasses the clamp as a unit (inc bolt) when certifying it?  But from this report it seems the Thatcham tested clamp has a shelflife before needing to be replaced.  Three years is hardly a long time.

[Moderator David@stives]

Yes It is an Ionics mag, but you cant deny it is an interesting and good article.

I think Ionics should be praised for taking the stance on crash testing.

I know money makes Craig and co tick, but I also know the last thing they want is for window cleaners to be killed by one of there systems.

The problem of carrying unsecured loads is not going to go away, as more and more people are turning towards wfp, It wont be long before we see a major crush injury or even death due to wfp.

Trevor Knight highlighted the problem to me, He told me to fill a 25 lt container and get someone to throw it to me and try catching it.

Try it then you will realise the true weight of water, Imagine that same 25 litres flying at you in the event of an accident, those of you who fill barrels will know what i am talking about.

[Sir Squeaky]

Some guy's are misled that thinking the bulkhead will stop a tank, take a look at the flimsy welds thats holding your bulkhead to your van and do you think it will stop your 300ltr tank in a  crash at 40mph? Think again guy's.

No it won't.
And I was going fast enough I'm 2ft above my flat tank anyway.
It may break away laterally, but strapped down it ain't going to jump 2ft in the air and still have enough forward motion to bust through a steel wall.

Don't be sucked in by advertising.

[steve m]

EXACTLY SQUEEKY, THATS ALL IT IS. Theres no doubting that its a quality system, we all know it is, but the average housewife wouldnt have a clue what she was looking at if it slapped her round her head. I know that they did a test on a newly fitted system, how will it fair after foar or five years of work and roadsalt.

At the end of the day if they've made us think about our safety and get a few people to re-fit their van and make them that little bit safer then we all ought to thank them for that at least

[jeff1]

Some guy's are misled that thinking the bulkhead will stop a tank, take a look at the flimsy welds thats holding your bulkhead to your van and do you think it will stop your 300ltr tank in a  crash at 40mph? Think again guy's.

No it won't.
And I was going fast enough I'm 2ft above my flat tank anyway.
It may break away laterally, but strapped down it ain't going to jump 2ft in the air and still have enough forward motion to bust through a steel wall.

Don't be sucked in by advertising.

I don't go by adverts squeeky, I don't get sucked in by salesmen, but I guess what ever is said you will never belive it, so you carry on and believe what you must and that you are safe.

Take a tip from Dave and just throw just a 25ltr container at it, then come back and tell me what damage it caused : then think of what 300ltrs will do.
All bulk heads are spot welded and are made of very thin sheet steel.

[steve m]

then look around for a good aftermarket one. From the floorup to two feet mine has two inch round tube seam welded to a two inch round frame all round and the mesh infill

[*foxman]

I really don't see how a throwing around 25 L containers willy-nilly can prove anything............

Seriously, thousands of trades use vans every day, they are designed to carry certain weights (be it a palette of bricks, office equipment, etc) I don't think any of these trades are using the Ionics Thatcham tested bolts, do you?  Just take an ice cream van for example, the weight of a fully loaded freezer must be at least a few hundred kilograms.  How are they strapped down?

It really is just scaremainering, just like the ladder ban, to get you to buy their systems.

[Sir Squeaky]

I really don't see how a throwing around 25 L containers willy-nilly can prove anything............

Seriously, thousands of trades use vans every day, they are designed to carry certain weights (be it a palette of bricks, office equipment, etc) I don't think any of these trades are using the Ionics Thatcham tested bolts, do you?  Just take an ice cream van for example, the weight of a fully loaded freezer must be at least a few hundred kilograms.  How are they strapped down?

It really is just scaremainering, just like the ladder ban, to get you to buy their systems.

Brilliant post.

[Pj]

A Petrol Tanker Delivery lorry is put through more vigourous testing than a van carrying water, but I'm glad I don't drive one!

The tests these tankers are put through make them relatively safe - safe enough to be driven on roads through cities all over the world.

My brother's father in law was driving his car on an open road and met a tanker coming the other way, hit it almost side on, killed instantly and the tanker became a fireball.

Very rare though.

Take reasonable safety measures within your means, and calm down.

Remember more people are killed in domestic violence than plane crashes!

And, apparently, if you stop farting completely there is a risk of death!

Take care out there it's a jungle.

[matt]

try and find online the video of the box of tissues on the parcel shelf taking a dummies head off, its done at the Thatcham place

1 of the ionics guys showed me it

how many of you have your hose reel, bucket etc etc etc unsecured in the back of your van

as with everything, we know the risks we take

[tonyoliver]

crash test dummies


 i know some boys who will crash test your vans for free just leave the keys in the ignition and the doors unlocked

[Spursboy1972]

One more point I have thought of today is that all these tests were carried out using ypright tanks! What about using lay flat tanks. I am sure that would make a difference as the force created would be completely different

[mark dew]

when i had water tank installed i phoned my insurers and they don't consider a 400 litre water tank in the back to be a modification.