[robbie14000]

Hi, We have taken on two staff full time through the books since August 07 they were previously self employed but accountant advised against this saying taxman would hit you as their employer due to them having regular hours.
Since the above has happened the costs for holiday pay,insurance,employer nat insurance,wfp costs have risen to the point that has an employer it is making it very hard to earn a good living after paying everything that needs to be paid out.
Staff do not understand the implications of the above.

Question: is it worth the hassle of employing staff???

I could cope with all my quality work on my own and make a very healthy living  but I am trying to build a substantial business but it is proving very difficult.

I am currently trying to slimline the business in getting rid of poor paying work or work that entails lots of travelling for cleaning 1-2 houses.

Does anyone on here have the same problem? or any ideas on how to make things work better?

Worked out that we are having to turn over in excess of  £50 per hour to make reasonable money from employing.

Like knocking my head against a brick wall at the moment.
Rant over.
Might not get replies but it is off my chest.
Thanks Robbie.

[Xline Systems]

lease work out. we find it works a treat

[NWH]

It`s alright leasing it out if it`s commercial,domestics wouldn`t like that especially if it`s quality work.Reply in a bit about the employing.

[Xline Systems]

we find it works well youve just got to be able to trust the people your leasing it to. weve had the same people leasing one of our domestic rounds now for 3 years

[NWH]

My customers wouldn`t go for that,they would have to be seen with me for a while first.

[Spursboy1972]

Addon costs are way than 20%. think about it as the guy said you have to allow for hols etc. Also yes you take their tax and give it to Mr Brown, but there are employers contributions to. As I recall it works out that if someone earns £100 pw gross then add another 15-20% on top of that for employer contributions. Then there are lots of other things. People not looking after your equipment like you would and so the list goes on.

Still I have my first full timer starting a week Monday, so I am going down that road too!

[Moderator David@stives]

x line

Email me your number, i would like a chat about leasing.

Dave

[windowwashers]

staffing can be a nightmare, trust me I know, it can be very good if the margins are right.

I would say you earn about a quarter of what a worker brings in.

but this can change up or down depending on many things like wages and prices that you charge.

Employee's think if they earn £10 and you get £4 they are hard up just an  example by the way.

they dont see the work you put in, nor do they remember that you pay for the van, insurances, fuel ect ect and thats not counting the tax man want there share.

people thinking of emplying need to do there sums before they offer a wage IMO
I didnt do that when I first started out and it was costing me money to employ defeating the point of employing totally, hard lesson that was, then again things like this and other forums were not about then.

Ian

[stevekennedy]

Don't forget employers insurance, Employers national insurance, Additional drivers cover for vans, paid holidays (compulsary), statutory sick pay. Also, there are way more Health & Safety implications.

Bottom line, don't pay too much or you will earn nothing, maybe even lose money.

When I first took on a guy (I was only 18 at the time) I gave him 30% of the days take with me getting 70% (I was working along with him) He did nothing but moan that he wasn't getting enough.

After six months I got the accounts and turns out by the time I paid for all the overheads etc, he was making more than me!

You live and learn  :

[Helen]

Hi, We have taken on two staff full time through the books since August 07 they were previously self employed but accountant advised against this saying taxman would hit you as their employer due to them having regular hours.
Since the above has happened the costs for holiday pay,insurance,employer nat insurance,wfp costs have risen to the point that has an employer it is making it very hard to earn a good living after paying everything that needs to be paid out.
Staff do not understand the implications of the above.


Question: is it worth the hassle of employing staff???

I could cope with all my quality work on my own and make a very healthy living  but I am trying to build a substantial business but it is proving very difficult.

I am currently trying to slimline the business in getting rid of poor paying work or work that entails lots of travelling for cleaning 1-2 houses.

Does anyone on here have the same problem? or any ideas on how to make things work better?

Worked out that we are having to turn over in excess of  £50 per hour to make reasonable money from employing.

Like knocking my head against a brick wall at the moment.
Rant over.
Might not get replies but it is off my chest.
Thanks Robbie.

At what rate do you pay them now and at what rate did you pay them when they were S/E. AS Ian has said do your sums (before employing) and keep doing them as you go along, you need to monitor workloads to see where you can improve. Always be on the ball as to keeping overheads down. Employing......have said it before( and been told off!!! ) if you want to take your business forward then employing staff is a neccesary evil

[choice.clean]

i have been employing for about 4 years now we have to turn over around £50 per hour to cover cost of 2 men they actually earn more than me but i do get some perks like working 1 day a week on the van and one in the office at 49 it gives me more energy than i had 20 years ago on the ladders. and i can keep going like this on into 60's it took me 3 years to find the right staff but once you get the right people it is great but if you want to earn money you would have to either put at least 2 vans full time out or get out there yourself. i prefer the time to go fishing and enjoy my semi retirement. but i've still got the dignity of knowing that i am a company director. i hope this gives the plus and minuses of employing. p,s couldn't do it without george programme and iris payroll. these are the best tools for administration.

[ronnie paton]

bloody hell im jus off to buy some work and employ properly full time and i thought i had thought it through but you guys have put me right offff aaarrrgggggghhhhhhhh

my head is up my a**e

[William Tyndale]

Employing can work really well if it is set up right at the start.

When you sub-contract you pay at a rate that a self employed person will accept, he pays for his equipment tax etc, if you then employ these same people at the same rate you will loose money for sure.

I know one local business who did this, he now has a staff member who looses him about £25 per week. Not a lot, but there should always be a profit made.

If you are going to employ you are better recruiting new staff and, IMHO, pay them minimum plus bonus.

[NWH]

If it`s done correctly you should be making as much as your paying him per week,the time you take off expenses for everything you should still be into good profit especially if he`s WFP.What someone can earn on there own WFP if you said for arguments sake you would pay him half of what he does for you in a day this should show you you`ll still be doing well out of him.If your paying him to higher a percentage or your not turning over the money per day only then would there be cause for concern IMO.How much does a van cost to run with all his tax nat ins etc over the course of a month you don`t have it setup right if your not making a profit as i say.

[William Tyndale]

I think some start from the wrong basis.

What do I need to pay....what are my expenses....what then do i need to turn over per hour.

Its better, IMHO, to work out what turnover one man can make, or the difference he makes with you, then pay him 50% of it. that will cover all costs and make you profit.

Doing it the first way you are cutting your profit if he does not come up to scratch.

[NWH]

I think some start from the wrong basis.

What do I need to pay....what are my expenses....what then do i need to turn over per hour.

Its better, IMHO, to work out what turnover one man can make, or the difference he makes with you, then pay him 50% of it. that will cover all costs and make you profit.

Doing it the first way you are cutting your profit if he does not come up to scratch.

Correct if you pay him half he`s always making you 50%,paying him half will also give him an incentive to work harder.

[Steve CM]

i work out to pay about 33% as wages. if i done it at 50% i would be struggling to make money

[NWH]

If you can good on ya i would,if you give away anymore than 50% you will be lucky to make it worthwhile.

[William Tyndale]

I think some start from the wrong basis.

What do I need to pay....what are my expenses....what then do i need to turn over per hour.

Its better, IMHO, to work out what turnover one man can make, or the difference he makes with you, then pay him 50% of it. that will cover all costs and make you profit.

Doing it the first way you are cutting your profit if he does not come up to scratch.

I'm pionting out that there is a way to start employing, setting on someone who has already worked for you as self employed is always going to be dificult.

See my earlier post as well. Min wage plus bonus. if you start on that basis it will be easier to maintain.

Now is a good time to recruit, many will be happy to have work. plus if you defer the bonus to the end of each quarter and then spread it over the next quarter you will always know your out goings. You then do the same for every quarter, base that bonus on the ave of the last.

[bluez]

Get a second opinion your accountant may be right but is he RIGHT

There are genuine ways to subcontract and it is a legitimate way to do business.

Mnay other types of businesses have a profit margin or mark up that they add to their product or service to ensure profit. It may help to check your figures by working it out both ways when employing.