[Ian_Giles]

Hi Terry! you are fast! out of interest do you ever use wfp and also is there any record for the fastest wfp cleaner? 

There are too many variables with WFP to have timed events.

When you speed clean with trad in competitions you can set the parameters and check them instantly, with WFP you have to wait for the glass to dry before you can check them, and of course once a window has been cleaned a couple of times WFP all you would need to do is spray it with water.

With trad you have to get rid of soap lines and squeegee lines and  so on, it is all measurable and definable.

As a general rule, in normal use an average 3 pane casement window done trad will take about 90 seconds to clean, including detailing and sills.

The same window done WFP should only take about 30 seconds.

In daily use you should be at least 30% quicker with WFP.


Squeaky saw me in town the other week using WFP on a large single pane of glass on a coffee shop in our local town.
He sent a jokey text saying why? He would be much faster doing it trad!

We chatted about it later, but I thought about what he said and thought I'd stopwatch myself on this pane of glass.

I can just reach it without need of a pole, so I washed & squeegee'd it quickly at my normal pace (which isn't slow I might add).

Time taken = 58 seconds.

Did it WFP, had to spend extra time on it cos of soap sud residue.

Time taken 35 seconds.

It FELT faster done trad, but the reality was that WFP was quicker.

Now don't get me wrong, if I had wanted to to I could have matched the quicker time if I'd been treating it as a race, using the two handed technique I'd have flown though it, but you don't work at race speed in reality, and it would also have taken several attempts to get it flawless.
If our Turbo Terry didn't have any mistakes his world record would be even faster than it is now.

To spend so much on expensive equipment and then not learn how to use it properly...so, so foolish.

Ian

[Terry_Burrows]

yes very true Ian, for example world record would have been 8.24 seconds,I got just 2 faults which makes things tough! but your right no good having wfp if you cant use correctly

[totalclean]

Hi there all thought ide have to come in on this topic.Well ive been cleaning windows for 12yrs. 5yrs trad and the last 7yrs wfp.started a new job with wfp that was all contract work 7yrs ago,and at that time was the first time i had ever seen windows being done this way.And no one seem to know alot about it which was a night-mere so i was on one big learning curve.since that time ive never looked back cuz despite all the set backs (and problems)early on i discovered one thing and that was that some jobs come perfect fist clean and outhers still spotting or sheating 5 cleans later but with perseverance all jobs did eventully come good.after leaving that job started working for a company that was just changing over from trad to clean all there residents houses to wfp. and this is were it gets tricky if your going to do them trad then do them trad but if your going to do them wfp then do them all wfp cuz this is the only way you will see all the benifits(in my opinion)why clean just the tops wfp and the downs trad you end up having to have all your wfp gear and trad gear with you at once your losing or sorry wasting time.plus leaving customers wondering whats going on,if yor going to spend thousonds on wfp equipment then have a little faith in this product.I KNOW IT TAKES TIME.But i find that this has been the way forward i think alot of window cleaners try it and give up to early we changed all houses over and we stuck at it and only lost 5 customers over-all 3 of which have since come back,so a tip ally window frames just forget it,wooden frames some-where between 4-6 cleans before job is spot on.pvc 2-4 cleans,but you always have the frames to mention this will help you keep the customer on your side in the early stages.so thank for reading and hope it might keep some of you to continue and not give up before you start only them that do will see the benifits after that stage.so this applys to houses,contract work with tinted windows and reflective glass well thats anouther story lol good luck hope i have helped.

[NWH]

With WFP if i wanted to now i could work 3 days a week and earn the same living as a trad cleaner working 5 if not more,when i realised this it was enough for me to remain WFP and do the odd house trad way.At the end of the day we all want to get the best living we can and with WFP your get a much much better living with energy left over at the end of the day,if you get behind with your work trad way your forever chasing your tail trying to catch up and very rarely acheiving your aim,with WFP staying on top of your work is never a problem.

[Terry_Burrows]

  so because if you have wfp you would charge more or would have to

[brett walker]

A UP OASIS HOW YOU DOING THE TROLLEY SHOULD BE SOMEWHERE FINISHED ON MONDAY ILE GIV YOU A RING AND DROP IT ROUND WHEN ITS DONE. LOOKING AWSOME

oasis

good to see your test driving the new xline trolley i'll come round to have a look at it next week in operation from what i have seen of it in james xline shop it looked very impressive and light.  Hope it takes off

good luck

regards

Brett

ps, oasis how many trolleys does that make you now?

[totalclean]

Terry yes when picking up new customers defo charge more but if your transfering old trad customers over to wfp then will have to leave price,s same as you will have enough problems on your hands at first well thats what i found any-way

[Terry_Burrows]

interesting its converting people then :

[totalclean]

do you  do all your work trad at mo you can convert ppl over but you have got to get as much in-sight into reach and wash as you can first so you know whats what. Customers are going to ask questions,and you need to be cofident in your answer, it cost a bit to get set up.so a big bonus when you know what the d/i vessel does/whats the r/o does,and then all the health and saftey aspect and so on

[Wayne Thomas]

i really dont mean to be rude but please will you stop trying to scare munger people in to switching to wfp. window cleaning is 1000times safer than my last job. i wont fall ive been at it now 7 years. i know my limets. i want to switch to fee up time. ive got a baby on the way in may and although i'm doing well i'd like to have more spare time to spend being a dad.

I've picked up plenty of work in the past from 2 very exerienced trad window cleaners who were both very mature who both fell off their ladders and have had to give up work completely. I'm not surprised they fell off their ladders where they had their accidents. When I use to trad their areas, there were certain houses I simply refused to put a ladder on the ground and climb up, because of the slippery surfaces being a health hazzard risk I WFP them all now. I still get a few of these customers ask me if I'll take them on...yes I tell them with WFP but not using a ladder, still they decline my offer.....one day I'll get them as no sensible trad cleaner is mad enough to put a ladder on them anymore.

[Terry_Burrows]

we dont use wfp but I know for a fact that some people just dont want all that water flying around

[oasisdweeb]

fao brett walker.with my trolleys all your poles,gary s new invention we could rule the windowing world!!!!!!!!!!!!

[totalclean]

i thought ppl would not be happy with water all round the place at first but they didnt seem to mind once all there frames are done and you tell them about the health and safety issues

[Moderator David@stives]

Terry

Its true some people dont like it , but 95% of people tolerate it, wether there happy with it that is a different matter.

I gave up asking what people thought, I just get on with it and treat it as normal.

I dont even mention it to new customers, most people have seen it one place or another and just assume it is the "normal"

I reckon , I have now lost 30 domestic customers and 1 small commercial in 3 years of wfp, and if you asked me which customers i would lose i could of pointed them out beforehand.

Some of the losses were due to staff being slack with the wfp,

I have a customer base of 100 commercial customers and 400 domestics so the losses werent to bad considering.

[Moderator David@stives]

p.s if i lost all the customers tommorrow , i think i would be happy.

I could take early retirement instead of being a slave, i am now 40 years old , i could die any time soon so whats the point of worrying.

You cant take your customers to your grave.

You just have to do what makes you happy and dont worry to much about the dosh

[totalclean]

good point dave

[Tristan R Clean]

Terry i am not happy with all that water around - when it rains!

but whadya do

Tris

[Terry_Burrows]

Dave your just a baby 40 yrs old its just feed back that I am posting on here that I get to hear about or said to etc we just dont have any need for wfp,

[macmac]

I think too many people have the misconception that a trad cleaner is somehow a cowboy &/or is not capable of earning decsent money. How very, very wrong they are. I know a trad cleaner & i'd ditch ALL my wfp work tomorrow for his trad work! He has the life of riley, 35k per year, rolls out of bed at 10am, never works a weekend etc.etc. This is not bull, (it's a relative of mine) It's not the method, it's the customer base & your ability to price correctley + the area you work. A lot of my best paying work is trad stuff, not particularly by choice, just not suitable for wfp & i price very, very well for trad work.

A good trad w/c, using good tools & a good solution, on general domestic work, in time wise is not much different from wfp & many occasions faster!
From many posts i read on here i can only assume there are not many good trad cleaners out there, espesially the ones who've gone wfp!

Tony

[dai]

er base & your ability to price correctley + the area you work. A lot of my best paying work is trad stuff, not particularly by choice, just not suitable for wfp & i price very, very well for trad work.

A good trad w/c, using good tools & a good solution, on general domestic work, in time wise is not much different from wfp & many occasions faster!
From many posts i read on here i can only assume there are not many good trad cleaners out there, espesially the ones who've gone wfp!

Tony

Tony, most of us were good trad cleaners before we changed to WFP.
 Most trad guys have never heard of this site, many of us found this site when we were researching WFP.
WFP being mechanical will give problems from time to time, we search for solutions on this forum.
The vast majority of window cleaners are still trad, if their is a bias on here towards WFP it's because most of us have invested in it, it doesn't give a true reflexion of the entire window cleaning industry, but things are changing fast.
The one negative thing with WFP, is that many guys have moved into window cleaning that would get dizzy standing on a chair. The competition is increasing by the day. Dai