[Nathanael Jones]

are we not over complicating the process

here are my thoughts

insulate tank in van

water from tank in van through heater back into the tank ( you will get to know how long it needs to be on for the temp you want , we will say, 1 hour in morning, 30 mins at lunch time )

then just pump the water from the tank

am i missing something by making it overly simple ? ? ? ?

The problem is, for some glass (historic single glazed for example) Hot water can crack the glass. The risk is small,... but the ability to switch off the heater and use cold wfp is essential.

Also, running hot water through your pump will shorten its lifespan dramatically I'm told.

[matt]

fair enough the both of you

i know our boiler is running for the hot water for 2 hours in the morning and 1 and 1/2 hours in the evening, we have a hot water cylinder and have most prob 3 showers and 1 bath a day ( in the house , not each )

we allways have hot water in that cylinder, it stays warm as its insulated, this would also do away with water freezing in the pipe etc etc

just thinking out loud for easier solutions

[Nathanael Jones]

You can fit a calorifier in the van, and use it as a heat source. It can be plumbed to take excess heat from the vehicle engine, and just be topped up from a gas or diesel heater when needed. Very eco friendly, but very complex to fit.

The gas heater I have doesn't have a pilot light, and doesn't burn gas when the water isn't flowing,... so in reality it is about as efficient as you can get without spending crazy money!

[Clear Vision]

Looking very good to me!! Well done!

Does It heat the water in the tank or does it just switch on and heat it as you use it?

Do you have your normal pump (shurflo/flo jet) Pumping the water into the heater unit?

If you do what happens when you thur the tap at the bottom of your pole and the pressure builds up to switch the pump off, will it damage the heater?

Cheers

The heater is "on demand",.. it's a clever little thing and switches on when the water flows (minimum 0.4 litres a minute) and switches off when the water stops,.... BUT,.. I will be installing a valve that will allow me to return the hot water to the tank if need be on a frosty night. Heat the tank to 25 or 30 deg C and it'll act as a big radiator overnight and keep the frost away.

I have a normal 100psi shurflo pump, but its plumbed before the heater, so it never takes hot water.

The heater is rated to 145psi, so when i stop the water the pressure builds up safely inside the heater, and the heater switches off as the flow stops!!!

Thanks for the info Matt,.. I should have known you'd know how to sort it,.. I owe you one!!!

I didn't get chance to play with the hot system today,.. it was miserable weather, so I spent the day setting up a rainwater harvesting system!!!

Thanks for your answers. I appreciate that.

The only thing that would concern me is the hot water passing through the ressin.

Some people say it will do no harm at all and it's better for the ressin and some people say the opposite. I dont know what to think myself.

How does the ionics hot water system work? Does that pass hot through the di?

Matthew

[Nathanael Jones]

I have the resin before the heater,... but i'm told hot water is good for resin....

[matt]

why not put 000 TDS into the tank, that way you dont have to be concearned about the resin situation

[Clear Vision]

Do you work a varistream along with your setup?

When using the system is it instant hot water or will the first few litres be cold untill it warms up?

I would like to hear how you get on with it.

I am in desperate need of a hot water system for a job that I have started but had to give up 1/4 of the way round as the backed on bird muck was just not shifting. I was thinking the hot would shift it!

Matthew

[Nathanael Jones]

I have a flowmaster installed on my system, and run at about 1.5 litres a minute.
The heater starts producing hot water within seconds of the flow starting, but it takes a couple of minutes for the hot water to get through 100 mtrs of hose first thing in the morning. I've found that so long as there isn't a huge gap between jobs, the reel stays hot for 20 - 30 minutes when it's all wound in.

[Clear Vision]

Thanks.

What fittings and hose do you use to set it all up?

I noticed from your pic of the mixer valve that it looks like you will need to connect copper pipe into the inlets?? Am I right in thinking that?

Have you got your return valve set up yet?

How do you find it's working?

Cheers

Matthew

[Nathanael Jones]

I got adapters for the cold inlet and mixed outlet to fit standard minibore, and on the hot side I used a braided hose used for connecting taps, but its rated for 500 psi and 100 deg C,.. so no worries about overheating and pipes bursting:


I tried to get it all setup today, but I was short a couple of connectors, so it'll have to be finished off during the week.

I've raised the heater closer to the roof to allow room for the extra pipes/valves below. I ran the heater at full power for a while today (washed the van and car!), and even with the pump turned up to max flow, the water was steaming hot. I reckon the heater has the potential to run 2 poles if needed.



I was worried about heat from the exhaust damaging the paintwork on the van roof,.. but evan after 20 mins running at max power, the flue pipe was hot, but the van roof above it wasn't more than warm. I've been told I can use plastic exhaust fittings in the van roof without worries of them melting, and I have no worries about it now. I just bought 2 of these:

http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300201552378&ssPageName=STRK:MEWN:IT&ih=020

One will be connected to the flexible exhaust flue, the other will be left open so fresh air can get back into the van.
The heater has an oxygen sensor,.. so if I don't ventilate properly, the heat will just switch off!

Another thing to mention is that the heater has an automatic 20 minute cut off. If you use it constantly for more than 20 minutes, it will shut down, and you'll have to flick the switch on the bottom off, and then on again. Personally, it will never bother me. I'd never work 20 minutes straight without moving a hose, stopping the flow between windows etc. each momentary break,.. even if the water flow stops for only 10 seconds, resets the heater back to the start of the 20 minutes again.

[Nathanael Jones]

Here's the adapters btw. From the 22mm fittings on the valve I have a double collar spring type non return valve, then a 1" to 1/2" reducing flange, and then a 1/2" gas nipple to fit the minibore.

Always use brass,...DON'T be tempted to use any gunmetal fittings! They are cheaper, and often easier to find, but they rust very quickly!

[Clear Vision]

Thanks for your explanations and pics. I appreciate that very much.

All in all how much can everything be sourced for excluding a gas bottle?

I will email you tomorrow with some more questions if you dont mind?

Matthew

[Clear Vision]

Gosh thats a big exhaust pipe!!! I didn't realise It would be that big!

[Nathanael Jones]

Feel free to e-mail!
info@avondhucleaning.com

The heater cost €206 including the expensive express delivery(5-8 days),... but it could be as little as €135 with the slow delivery option (6-12 weeks!!).
The thermostatic valve cost £25 including shipping off ebay (Worth 4 x that!) Make sure you check the temp range of the valve you buy, some max out at 45 deg C,.. and if you allow for heat loss in the hose you could be stuck with a warm system, not a hot one!
The fittings, connectors etc prob cost another €65 or so,.. surprisingly expensive for all those little bits and pieces!!
The exhaust is 100mm (4 inches),... for some reason it looks bigger in that pic!!

[Nathanael Jones]

Forgot to say,.. mushroom vents for the van roof cost me €30 inc shipping off ebay!
The link is in a post above!

[macmac]

I think you've done a superb job there mate for such little money. i would never have thought that could be done at that price & look so good/ neat & tidy too. I'm realy impressed with what you have done there. You should give yourself a big pat on the back for that one.

Tony

[Jon-scwindows]

can you test the tds and let us know what the tds is of the hot water coming out of the brush. See if its changed after heating?
also this must be good as the water surely evaporates from the windows very fast once cleaned, so they come up very good and no customers waiting for the windows to dry?

[Nathanael Jones]

The van is in getting signwriting done today,.. but I will test the TDS coming out when I get it back tonight. I've had ZERO spotting in the few days I've been using hot though,... even on a first clean I did!
The windows dry faster,... not instantly or anything, but defo much faster. Hot water seems to sheet a lot more too,... windows that used to bead really bad are now much easier to rinse.

Macmac,...   "neat and tidy"? You need new glasses mate!!! 
It will be when its finished,... but I've a bit of work to do yet! I'll be putting in shelving all around it up to roof height and waterproofing the floor too!

[Clear Vision]

Email sent!

I did a quick search on ebay for the thermostatic mixing valve and the only ones I could see were 92 euros???

Also do you need a 12v supply to feed the heater?

Matthew

[Nathanael Jones]

The heater runs off 2 "D" size batteries, so no power hookup required!

Not sure if this would do the job,.. you'll have to email the seller and ask what the output temp range is,.. but it looks promising:
http://cgi.ebay.ie/22mm-THERMOSTATIC-anti-scald-MIXING-VALVE-NEW_W0QQitemZ220207340170QQihZ012QQcategoryZ32875QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The Altenic Mixcal III valves are one of the best available though, I was just lucky to get one cheap.