[Rogue Trader]

all you have said is "leaflets" how much did you spend if its 10k mono flyers bin em if its 10 full colour a4 and they aint been folded then you could salvage em without using stickers or a guillotine depends on the costs really but can be done

they were 140 quid so it would not be too hard a loss,
i think im gonna have to grin and bear it!

Why advertise Ionics if you don't get paid for it? I wouldn't advertise any WFP system. The only advertising on my van & website is for my benefit, nobody else gets a mention. I use Ionics WF poles and an Ionics cricket trolley but I wouldn't want to put an Ionics logo on my van because I'm not advertising freebies. If they paid me to advertise their stuff, then I might consider it............

i didnt even know it was the ionics logo , i was told it was the universal wfp logo and it looked quite professional so i thought i would stick it on the leaflet, i wasnt trying to advertise any system brand that would mean diddly squat to anyone anyway.

[Grafters Cleaning Services]

Having been studying this thread i thought i would give it some time before replying so now is the time to do so.
I believe ionics may have a point in not wanting anyone using there logo but as for the term “Reach & Wash” can one really have copy right to a short sentence/description?
It is generally known in the business that wfp is also known as reach and wash (a term i use frequently) when i get inquires several times the question pops up “do you use reach and wash”
And my answer is always “yes”
Having said that on my van it states using “water fed poles”
To me it’s almost like the Indian Take-away shop suing the Chinese counterpart for using the words Hong Kong The take-away
The word  take away is used for all take away restaurants as is the description Fast food i.e. macdonalds, burger king etc.
I fear that ionics are doing themselves no favours by reacting in the way they do, if anything they will put w/c’s off them by their methods of control.
In an earlier thread i was asking the question ref:
 ionics thermo systems, it is something i may think about in the future however having said that if i do go down this route i will not be getting it from ionics most likely somewhere like omnipole (if they do them)
The reason being simple: i have 2 vans, say one has an ionics system in it i can therefore use their logo but the other van would not have an ionics in but i would want both vehicles to be sign written in the same way, now having spent several thousands on their system i would be somewhat p***ed off if i was told that only the van using the system could carry the logo.

Anyway that’s my thoughts on the matter

[Grafters Cleaning Services]

as an after thought
it's often said "to be mimicked  is the best compliment you could get",
not only that look at all the free advertising they would be getting

[matt]

when does a generic term lost its copyright status, any1 know

for example, my wif hoovers the house with a dyson, its not a hoover is it ??, though i s.pose we should say " my wife vacuums the house "

poor example i guess

[stuart@skypole]

the term reach and wash (reach & wash) has been used by ionics for years they are after all the company (OTT) that brought the water fed pole system to our country.

rgds, stuart

[Old_Master]

Hi Stuart
TuckerPoles were actually  available in the UK many years before OTT sold them.
They were being sold directly through  Tuckers European agent who was based in Holland but networked in the UK, the first time I came across  them was  in mid 1980s.
OTT got the idea and really marketed the complete concept of a window cleaning system and the rest is history.

[stuart@skypole]

hi glyn,

you are correct they did introduce the system i thought i put that 

regards, stuart

[stevekennedy]

You could run them back through your printer and overprint the logo with a black square?

Would save wasting all the leaflets.

[Davo]

failing that, just get the flyers out as they are 

What sort of advice is that?

Ionics have contacted him, he is in breach of their trademark and they will sue him. He will lose and their legal costs will be fortunes.

To do something when you know you cant win is foolish


Mark

[Village Gleam]

I have noticed the marketing is all about them. I bumped into a competitor who works the same areas as me. He was really nice and showed me his thermo pure.I thought it was brilliant. He gave me a leaflet a brochure and a biz card. On all three his name as operator was very small, and all the stuff was about them.I think the brochure was about their training courses.

It did strike me that he'd paid a lot of money to advertise them and they'd got him believing he was promoting himself. However I did believe him when he told me how he earned £100 ph. This wasn't what sent me hot though, it was when I felt the water (his water) on my hand, i knew what I thought and I knew what customers would think.

[stevekennedy]

Legal costs would be minimal as he could just plead guilty.

However, he may have to repay Ionic for loss of trade (if any loss can be proved). They could argue that their brand has been devalued by the incorrect use of their trademark for example. Could be expensive?

looked into this via the legal service from the Fed when I was accused of breaching copyright. It was on a catchphrase I was using. Turned out that you cannot trademark a catchphrase  : Enjoyed phoning the guy back  

[*foxman]

failing that, just get the flyers out as they are 

What sort of advice is that?

Ionics have contacted him, he is in breach of their trademark and they will sue him. He will lose and their legal costs will be fortunes.

To do something when you know you cant win is foolish


Mark

What can they sue you for???   

[Davo]

failing that, just get the flyers out as they are

What sort of advice is that?

Ionics have contacted him, he is in breach of their trademark and they will sue him. He will lose and their legal costs will be fortunes.

To do something when you know you cant win is foolish


Mark

What can they sue you for???

Breach of trademark, which will incur  punative damages, their legal fees will be a small fortune, even if you plead guilty.

They have legal rights which mean that anyone who uses their registered trademark, without their express permission is open to be sued for damages, whatever a court decides those to be.

Think its called a tort, but not sure. You have google go and have a look.


Mark

[Davo]

Benefits of registered trade mark protection
Registering your trade mark gives you the exclusive right to use your mark for the goods and/or services that it covers in the United Kingdom (UK).

If you have a registered trade mark you can put the ® symbol next to it to warn others against using it. However, using this symbol for a trade mark that is not registered is an offence.

A registered trade mark:

may put people off using your trade mark without your permission


allows you to take legal action against anyone who uses your trade mark without your permission


allows Trading Standards Officers or Police to bring criminal charges against counterfeiters if they use your trade mark


is your property, which means you can sell it, or let other people have a licence that allows them to use it.






So I presume it has a value. if, by your actions you devalue the trademark, then the owner can sue you for their loss.


Mark

[STEVE-UK]

 you could always  buy an ionics ground floor extender pole i think there only £50 - £60 . problem solved!!

cheaper than getting another 10,000 leaflets done

[NWH]

you could always  buy an ionics ground floor extender pole i think there only £50 - £60 . problem solved!!

cheaper than getting another 10,000 leaflets done

You have to buy a system in order to use there logo etc.