[lands]

YP have made a mess of my advert and have offered me £200 off an ad that costs about £800.

They have also set upon me the animals that are debt collectors even though I have only just had their letter.

Has anyone been here before and more importantly gone all the way with it? Can I get an injunction against throught the courts to stop the collection agents hassling me (bearing in mind this matter is in negotiation)?

I have a good understanding of the law but it is knowledge that is dated.

I want them to go straight to the small claims court with it to cut out the debt animals pestering me. Any advice?

Pete

[Ken Wainwright]

Pete

If you're an NCCA Member, use the Free Legal Advice Line.

You'll need to call the office first on 0116 271 9550. Like many other business' they're closed until 2nd Jan 2008.

Another benefit of NCCA Membership.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[lands]

Sadly Ken I am not. Something that is on my business to do list. It's the training I'm after but those little add on are useful too.

Pete

[Doug Holloway]

Hi Pete

I know you worked for YP and would probably know more about these disputes than most.

With the debt collectors I would write a letter stating clearly that as the matter is in negotiation as instigated by YP's offer,  any more letters (until the negotiations are complete),  will be considered harrassment.

I would also bypass the YP minions and strike at the top, letters and emails to senior executives can have a very positive effect as they don't like being hassled either !

Is there a directory code or trade organisation, somebody who YP might be wary of ?

Hope this helps .

Cheers

Doug

[Ken Wainwright]

Pete

Reading through my HSBC Liability Insurance Policy, I see on page 40 that they offer "UK Commercial Legal Advice" over the phone 24/7   It doesn't say, but I presume that it's free in as much as it's included in the premium.

As far as I'm aware, the NCCA cover is for personal and business.

Safe and happy cleaning
Ken

[glenda hollis]

Trading Standards will be able to give you free advice. Unfourtunatly any letters that you send 'to the top' and to 'senior' managment always seem to get intercepted en-route and you're back where you started dealing with the general customer care team. If you want to go to the small claims court why wait? Why dont YOU take THEM?

[Ian Gourlay]

I had a dispute with Vodaphone and asked for contact details of top people.

At first it did not work, but I kept at them and eventually won.


Re Yellow Pages owbad a mstake was it. 


Did you sign proof


If not howwas it published   How long have you been in dispute.

[lands]

Yes I worked for them Doug but never got involved in these issues.

I am with HSBC too Ken but I'm sure that you paid extra for that but I will check so thanks.

I did sign the proof but the eventual advert is different as they use recycled paper in the books and the company name/logo is very faint as is the website as the shade is a pale green so you can barey read it.

Yell is regulated by OFCOM and yes they are very wary of them as they got hit very hard by them somre years ago.

Thanks for the advice, it's amazing how a few opinions can give you a clear direction in how to tackle something so thanks very much guys. (don't stop there though as this can help many others too I'm sure)

Pete

[Joe H]

Do YP have a sliding scale fro reimbursement if there are errors on the final printing?
Where does the compensation offered lie in that scale?

Like Glenda says - you could take action against them if you so wish ie small claims court.

[Straker Cleaning]

Had similar but i never signed off a proof and salesman went back to NZ.
I refused the 20% discount and told them to take me to court as it is not for either of us to decide what the cost of their mistakes should be.  Did get a letter telling me it was written off but when i tried to get included in NCCA box, was told i could not re advertise until outstanding amount was settled ......... handy as would have liked to  postpone that anyway, with the load of work i had at the time.
Never going back to them so amount can stay written off/outstanding 

[HQCS (John Kastrian)]

I had the same problem with my first (and last) advert with them.
The proof didn't even resemble the ad that went to print and I was contesting it right up until it  went to print,and they still went ahead and printed it.
To be honest yp were totally incompetent all the way along,and I never used them again.
Their answer to your problem will be something like,well you do have an advert so we will screw as much as we can out of you even if we have totally messed it up and it is not what you paid for.
The angle you need to take with them is the fact that they have not supplied the goods or services that you ordered,and on that basis you are rejecting it. Whether it is worth trying to take them all the way to court is your decision but you should be able to get at least a 50% reduction,and make sure any offer is in writing as they will later try and deny it.-John

[mark_roberts]

From what you say I dont think you will have much of a leg to stand on because

1) you signed the proof

2) theres small print to say colours etc may not be exactly as they are esp on a computer screen due to the printing process.  Its the same for newspapers. This is common sence anyway.

A discount is good but to get it for free youll be doing very well IMO.

Mark

[Deep Clean Newcastle Gateshead]

If you have not signed off on the add, (ie they changed the add that you signed off on then they are in the wrong and the add is null and void), debt collectors are not allowed to enter your premises, and you say this to them on the phone as well as at your door step with out a court order, if they do they are trespassing, and all you need to do is call 999 and say intruder, that's all and the plods will be over in a tick.
It is against the law.  I have been through this before.
They will usually take the tack of do you want to discuss it for all your neighbours to hear or do you want to talk inside.
Tell them to go away and off your property, as soon as they are inside, they start to make notes of what you have.
YP, take about 18-24 months to follow with court action, if they even do, most of it is talk unless it is over a grand. They just put it to the debt monkeys, so let them take you to court, if you didnt sign it off they haven't got a leg to stand on, and because they have offered you a £200 reduction, that is them admitting to guilt, do not accept the £200, tell them that you want the whole thing refunded, and you are now talking to your solicitors about taking them to court for loss of business, as they screwed up on the add, however you need to prove that the business is not coming in from that add, ie if they have put your telephone number in wrong, you will get no  business, therefore loss would be X.
Hope this helps, if you need any more let me know
Aidan

[lands]

thanks Aiden.

I think I shall enjoy writing this letter as it gives me the chance to be the Victor Meldrew that my wife is always calling me.

Pete

[john thomas]

mark is correct, take the discount and dont advertise again.

[lands]

Guys

This is a copy of a letter I have prepared in response to Yell. Feel free to give any opinions or just to note mentally. Its a bit long though.


The points raised in your letter are understood and whilst your terms & conditions do state that their may be some variation on the colouring in the proof and that which goes to print I do not believe that this alone exonerates Yell on this particular occasion.

As stated in my letter 12 Dec. I discussed in detail the fact that my website is the vehicle that prepares my potential customers for a, the level of my expertise and b, the cost that will be attached for such expertise which I might add is charged at £60 per hour. It is imperative that my logo is professional and consistent with my other forms of marketing. Also, that my website is clearly defined so that the potential customers are driven to it (a point that your sales consultant was very quick to point out as I weighed up the relevance of an advertisement in the directory).

I have now received 2 letters from a debt collection agency called NCO and when they rung me on my 0800 no. (at considerable cost to me) they explained that you had instructed them to do so despite the fact that this matter is still under negotiation. Please withdraw your instruction to them at this time or I will be forced to approach the local County Court and make a complaint of harassment.

On the subject of courts I can confirm that my local County Court is Thanet and the address is The Court House, 2nd floor, Cecil Square, Margate, Kent CT9 1RL. As a sole trader I would respectfully request that any litigation in this matter be passed through this administration system as I do not have the facility to handle such a process further afield. Please note I have now spent 4.5 hours on this matter and this will be counter claimed on my usual business hourly rate + any incidental costs.

In view of the above your offer is not accepted and I suggest that we allow the courts to take a decision on this matter as I feel that any right minded individual would agree that I have not received anything near what the sales consultant led me to believe I would and for this reason I do not feel it is right that I should pay for something that I will gain any benefit from, more indeed something that will in fact be detrimental to my business.

As a matter of professional courtesy please note that I will be making a complaint to both OFCOM and the Trading Standards bodies as I believe you are using your position as a large corporate entity to treat me as normal fee paying customer unfairly.

[HQCS (John Kastrian)]

That should stir them up Pete.
Think you should add a word in here or they will hang you out to dry.
"I do not feel it is right that I should pay for something that I will (NOT) gain any benefit from"
It will very difficult to prove that you may or not gain any work from the ad as it is,and they will most certainly use that as a form of defence.
Their way of thinking rightly or wrongly is the fact that you do have an advertisement and as long as all company names and phone numbers are clearly stated they expect you to pay.
Depends how far you wish to push it and how much time you are willing to spend on it,but they will try everything in the book to get payment.
It may be beneficial to screw the best discount you can out of them and put it down to experience.
The law is an ass and even if it went to court it would be unlikely that they would rule totally in your favour.
I wish you the very best of luck whichever way you decide to play it.
John

[Deep Clean Newcastle Gateshead]

Spot on, also keep any further letters that they send you and log any calls made to you on your 0800 number and charge it back, I would actually say that you are seeking costs for the long 0800 number call.
Keep track if the debt collectors call you, when and where as you can use this as evidence that you are being harassed by them.
Good Luck and let me know what they do, more than lightly you will not here a squeak from them, and they will just stop every thing they are doing as they probably will not want to offer you the credit formally, but not want to go through the court.  The problem may occur if they do this, and they do as they are little buggers is when next year comes up to advertises, they say that you still owe them from the previous year and that they will not place your add unless you pay what they say you owe, even if you are in the right, which means that you may have to take legal action against them. 
Aidan

[garyj]

I think I am right in saying that you can't charge for your time in a small claims court and they will know you are acting alone without legal advice from that line alone.

Keep it simple and don't throw too many arguments in, keep to the one reason and fight that one for all it's worth. I would also put in they are abusing the court system by threatening behaviour before you have had a chance to reasonably sort this problem out, the courts should be the last option after all other avenues have been pursued.

[David Ware]

Pete
I would put ''WITHOUT PREJUDICE'' at the top and state that its ''unfair and unreasonable''in your counter claim. Then its upto the court to determine what is fair and reasonable
All the best
David Ware