[Derek]

Paul

I didn't say that.... I said that we are working on it...

Derek

ps...in my youth 'Gay' meant a happy carefree person and nothing more

[paul@ctcs]

It did make me chuckle when i read it Derek 

Paul

[Keith_Robertson]

Hi folks,

I have attended both NCCA and IICRC courses so can tell you my personal view.   I first attended the NCCA courses so long ago that the instructors of these days have either retired or died.   The carpet and upholstery courses were quite separate whereas today the basic course is both subjects combined.  Last year I re-attended with one of my sons and thoroughly enjoyed the experience.   Most of the attendees had either little or no experience, some deciding to do the course prior to finally making up their minds whether they wanted to be carpet cleaners or not.   It is a really great way of getting the basics, being shown different machines and techniques and being able to ask questions before sitting the test paper.   The facility they are currently using in Leicester is excellent and provides full facilities for meals and accommodation.

The IICRC courses have the time to go into more detail as they are each two days long.   The amount of information and technical detail packed in along with the 180 question test papers can prove quite daunting to those with little or no experience.   Most of the IICRC carpet or upholstery cleaning courses are arranged by Chemspec who hold them at different parts of the country including Scotland, Floodtech who are down in Farnham and Alltec who have a purpose built training facility near Royston.   There is a carpet cleaning course at Alltec on Monday and some of my lads are coming down.

If you are new or don't have a great deal of experience I would recommend you attend the NCCA course 1st and then attend the two IICRC courses.   If you have gone to Prochem or Ashbys you will probably have got enough under your belt to enjoy the IICRC courses.   As you will know there is a full range of IICRC courses covering a number of speciality areas.   Ruth Travis (The Rug Lady) who came from the States earlier this month to take the Colour Correction course started the course by having a quote on the board from Sandra Carey, "Never mistake knowledge for wisdom, one helps you make a living the other helps you make a life."

Alltec also arrange hands on days which although not counting towards NCCA membership do offer great background to a number of different areas.


 
    

[Ian Gourlay]

I think the NCCA should move a little faster we have been banging on about this subject for nine months.

Anyway I have decided to tak be  quick route and do NCCA course,

This should give me any crediability I might  be lacking. Then do advanced courses if mood takes me.

How often is a full members meeting of the NCCA held in order that members can put motions to the board of directors.

How many motions do you have a year/

How many go to the full membership to vote.

Regards

Ian Now going to watch Casualty.

[Len Gribble]

Derek

I know what you meant (hand on hip)

Care about hymns not pc should be song sheet.

Len

[Derek]

Len

At our age since when do we bother about being pc...  

On the odd times that I am let into a church they sing hymns NOT songs...

Derek

[Len Gribble]

Keith

What a dilemma do the NCCA or IICR. I wonder which is the most cost effective, leaving out accommodation etc.

Ian very sad Casualty! It’s like blank screen. As with most but if happy?

Len

[Mike Halliday]

why don't we forget about andys question and start harping on about the NCCA.........  ooopps we are doing :

[Len Gribble]

Derek

I do try, and then I like a debate.

Re phrase script sheet

Len

[ian richards]

I started in this industry by at first attending the NCCA training course. I have however since completed the IICRC examination, and passed! Now the difference between both exams are immence, (in terms of knowledge), and i really do believe that the NCCA course exam is not strong enough to allow novices, such as i was!!! to go out to joe public and clean carpets. However i do feel that the IICRC course is!! Its very indepth and really does test the knowledge of the students taking the examination.
Now since the NCCA are part owners of the IICRC, and the IICRC exam is enough of a qualification to have automatic entry in the NCCA, why dont the NCCA use the IICRC examination as there there own quallification, there being that you if you pass the IICRC exam you dont have to set another. It would be much better to see a student pass a more intencisfied qualification.
Ian


 
     

[Derek]

Ian

There are several factors regarding examinations....both organisations use a 'multi-choice' format.

Speaking to a professional trainer a few months ago he painted the following scenario.

As an experiment he gave the delegates a blank sheet of paper with just the numbers of the questions/answers on it. 
He the asked them to fill it in at random.

The questions were then added to the paper and the delegates achieved around a 50% pass....says something about multi-choice doesn't it.
The more worrying thing that the person I spoke to was involved with Police training!!!!!

Now people fail the multi-choice...what do you think the pass rate would be at a full blown written examination?

The NCCA used to do this for their three one-day courses and I can tell you from personal experience that each paper took over an hour to mark... now multiply that by the number of delegates and you have an awful lot of unpaid man/woman hours.

Running a Trade Association seems so very easy from the outside but in trying to be totally unbiased it can bring its own problems.

In answer to a previous question...

The members have a chance to influence NCCA policy at the AGM (held at CARPEX in early October)...they also can be proposed as a Director and join the 'happy' band who put an awful lot of hours in for 'free' 

The NCCA is NOT a closed Association it is open to anyone who is willing to meet the criteria....for those who are not members who comment negatively about the NCCA.. I say to you ..join... get involved and you may have just the ideas to move things on...

Derek

[Ian Gourlay]

Regarding the delemia do you want to join the trade assosiation or do you want to expand your knowledge,

I feel so that I counteract those warning adverts and any negetive info rival companies put out need to be a member of the NCCA

Also it was started by British people and although I watch US movies, like going to US and Canada I am British.

Dereck is correct many of us say things from the side lines about all organizations in the industry, which they might regard as unfair.

Im not convinced that one person joining the NCCA could set the Carpet Cleaning industry on fire, and to be honest, unless you are someone like Nick,  you are unable to do so , and in reality as someone who tries to split himself into four  and fails you are better off concentrating on building your own Business.


If I was Derek  I would have thrown a wobbly by now and thrown my toys out of the pram.


For those who think Im sad watching Casualty  I have been to a Manfreds concernt this week and a Lonnie Donegan tribute. I was looking at the audience and thinkinging were these the people  who were into Drugs and Rock and Roll  what happened they so recepectable.

Andy sorry nothing to do with your question.

[Keith_Robertson]

Hi Len,

If your sole intention is to join the NCCA go to the NCCA course.   

Realistically there is probably little financial benefit in being a member.   It can be argued that there is a credibilitity benefit but that is hardly likely to be immediately tangible in financial terms.   There are also credibility benefits in attending and passing the IICRC courses as you are able to posture yourself or your company.  Together the two certainly helps you to posture yourself as an expert in the textile cleaning arena.   That should in turn allow you to maximise the rates you charge for what you do.

I was a NCCA a number of years ago but lapsed largely through my view that it was run as an 'old boys club' particularly for the directors and the fact that it was likely that you never get a reply if you wrote to them.   

Has that changed?   Well...I am not sure, however, In my old age I decided that it would at least be a pleasant experience to part of the trade association and be able to be involved with other conscientious people.   As Derek has said the directors and others like Ken Wainwright give freely of their time and experience to help others.   I am quite sure that none of us really can appreciate the time it can take.   It is going to be a long road before the association really becomes a national institution but it is up to all of us, if we are willing, to participate and help in whatever way we can.

Regards,

Keith

[cheryl new]

Hi all,

Andy, good luck with your new ventur  My business plan is very similar and I'm now at the stage where I've done the courses and will pick up my machine in a couple of weeks.  For the Public Liability and Treatment Risk insurance, speak to McGregor Lloyd based in Bradford I think 0121 7060616.  They are associate members of the NCCA so you can be sure you get all the cover you need.

Best of luck.

Cheryl

[Doug Holloway]

Keith,

This is the point I have made on several occaisions ,  that if the NCCA became proactive in contacting those carpet cleaners who are successful in their own areas  , and managed to get them to join it could be the kick start needed.

I d'ont know about other areas but the NCCA is virtualy invisible around here.It may be different in the midlands where the powerbase seems to exist.

I appreciate the desire not to be a cheque book organisation but a big push now could get Pawlo's wheel spinning a little faster.

Trying to be constructive,

Cheers,

Doug

[Ken Wainwright]

Doug

I feel that the wheel is gathering momentum. A quick recollection of the figures quoted at the AGM suggests that membership has grown by about 20% in the last year.

Cheryl

When arranging your insurance, don't forget that if you have employees, whether full or part time, permanent or casual/occasional, a bucket carrier or fully trained tech, whether paid or not, then you are obliged to have Employers Liability cover too. My apologies if I have just increased your premium.

Safe and happy cleaning:)
Ken

[Derek]

This NCCA issue seems to be an ongoing thing...

My point is that the Directors, Yes, many like me, have been around for a few years and could be said to be part of an 'old boy's network'

For the benefit of ourselves!!!!...that hurts.

Nick Heath a President of the NCCA some years ago calculated some figures during his year in office...he reckoned it cost him around £5,000 to be President and that was fifteen or so years ago.

The Directors all pay the same subscription as the members, they take calls from members, the public and other parties on a daily basis. They return calls to people all over the Country and it is almost unheard of for them to reclaim these costs

It certainly costs me and my business to be a Director of the NCCA.

Why do I do it...?

I personally get a buzz in helping other people.

I gain information that keeps me and ultimately the members informed of what is happening.

Someone mentioned Nick being an innovator... he certainly is within his field where the rewards he works for are his.

It is a different issue when you run your own business alongside that of the NCCA or other voluntary organisation.

Nick and I were on the Proclean steering committee together a few years back in an effort to relaunch it.

So come on don't moan... DO SOMETHING!

Derek

[Derek]

Kenneth

Sorry I got carried away and forgot to reply to a point you made about Insurance....

You had me scatting about (that's a technical term) for a newspaper article I saw this last week...it went..

The recent announcement that some of the smaller businesses need no longer take out Employers Liability insurance came as a huge relief for 300,000 sole traders.

Maybe we should be now renegotiating our own insurance policies...

Regards
Derek

[easi-kleen]

Derek

is it posible to get a copy of the article about employers liability as Iwont emplor anybody mainly for that reason. Also I trust no-one ( but thats my problem)

Phil

[Doug Holloway]

Phil/Derek.

http://www.newbusiness.co.uk

Click on insurance then about sixth article down.

Cheers,

Doug