[Mike Osbourne]

To be slightly cynical about it. Surely it is ideal for the commercial job where the guy just wants the lowest price for it to look ok.

You can educate them till the cows come home but they ain't interested in deep clean.

Common sense say HWE is bound to be better but so what if the custie wants it give it too him, just don't pretend it's better.

[The Great One]

Hi

Common sense doesn't say it, the HWE companies say it and so people believe it.

Saying HWE is the best without even trying Encap is just like saying God exists! because that it what you have been taught. You don't know 100 % for certain.

Where is the irrefutable proof it does in either case ( HWE & God, or Man-made climate change)

Don't just say it because you have been told it, examine why it is and offer proof.

Regards

Martin

[Neil Williams]

To be slightly cynical about it. Surely it is ideal for the commercial job where the guy just wants the lowest price for it to look ok.
You can educate them till the cows come home but they ain't interested in deep clean.
Common sense say HWE is bound to be better but so what if the custie wants it give it too him, just don't pretend it's better.

As someone who carries HWE, Texatherm and the wonder (!) charlie pad system, my prefered method for quality work is
1. HWE
2. Cotton pad sytem
3. Charlie Pads

The demo at the CCDO just about summed it up.

[lands]

I agree with Neil. Don't carry all but even Doug H will tell you that HWE (if done properly, beats all else) it's a simple combination of chemistry and physics.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I'm mainly HWE but I can't agree that HWE will suit all carpets, I can sometimes get better results with a LM system, but if I couple them both together I get the best system but they have to pay for it.

Shaun

[carpet guy]

The encap comment was in response to the " wiping with a cloth " comment, to entighten some who know nothing of encapsulation or oscillating pad technology.

I'm aware that some experimenting has taken place and as always some will be in favour, others will not, that's life.

All I'm saying is encapsulation is more advanced in America and Canada than here and there is a lively debate in which t/m users have gone over to encap, after experiencing it with an experienced individual.

I have been playing around with it and have had some very good results on a variety of carpet types and that is with a lightweight machine.

Its got a lot in it's favour and from a commercial point of view makes a lot of sense. By that I mean it is capable of making carpet cleaners a lot of money for less effort and lower capital cost.

Is that not why you are in business, or do you prefer to work harder and kid yourself that you are doing a better job than everyone else.

Running a business, is about making money..............end of story !

rob m

[Shaun_Ashmore]

No Robert you are supposed to say PERIOD.

I can remember reading on the ICS board that some cleaners about 5 years ago were making $150 an hour because of its production.

The thing that puts most off is that if they do the same old cleaning they are guaranteed the same results and results are what count or you don't get paid PERIOD!

Shaun

[Neil Williams]

Surely this all depends on what you are selling, are you selling appearence or are you selling clean?
To the customer the look is the same but there is no way a rotary is going to deep clean as much as HWE. Play with stats, video clips all you want, HWE is the full clean,but for ease of making money whilst the customer is happy at the end I prefere using rotary methods.

[carpet guy]

Touche'

There is so much written on boards about the DEEPEST, MOST THOROUGH, ETC, but the reality of being in business, is, judged by what you actually deposit in the bank and your back pocket.

What really matters, is what method is the most profitable, because it's profit that drives business, any business.

If you are desperately anxious about saving the planet, don't be a cleaner. Go and join Greenpeace !

If you are serious about making money, consider the most productive methods, ie, how you will get the most money for time and effort spent, period !!!

Bit of a departure from my usual rants, but it's all about stimulating the grey matter. The posts tend to be about machines or chemicals, which is fine, but there's only one reason to be doing what you're doing.

rob m

[Mike Osbourne]

So now you are actually admitting it's not as good as HWE just good enough to make you more money?

[carpet guy]

Where did you read those words ?

I was, in the last post stating the correct approach, from a business point of view, that being, the reason for being in business, is to make money, to make the maximium amount of money for time, effort, capital cost, spent, is to utilise the most cost effective productive tools, methods, technology, available, there being no place in business, for complacency, or stubbornness, or closed mind mentality.

That post was not comparing, or endorsing a method.

I have expressed myself on that previously and it just occurred to me when reading the posts, that most time on forums is spent on discussing, particular products and theorising as to their capabilities.

This reminded me of the basic concept of running a business, which is.............

To get the maximum return from your investment, by getting the maximum productivity / profit  from the methods / equipment available. Basic stuff, really, but sometimes being forgotten when discussing individual preferences.

Remember, the only line that counts in any business, is the bottom line.

have a nice day, I'm off to pack my case for two weeks in the Domminican Republic my kids just got back from cruising around there a couple of days ago



 

[Mike Osbourne]

 Rob: 'Yes I know, but the encap products, the bonnets and the o/p machines have proven themselves to t/m users who were amazed at the results.'

This was your response to an earlier post by paul moss and one from me. To me at least, this means you think the results from encap are of an equivelent standard to HWE.

Enjoy your hols.

[Matt Read]

You also have to remember not all customers are ignorant, i'm not big into bonnet cleaning but have used it to good effect .I prefer to use it when its a vacant property unless the customer has asked for l m cleaning.

I'm sure that there are carpets i could use it on in a domestic situation but i find my customers feel short changed if they can't hear the truckmount running and see the dirt being sucked up the vaccum hose. A lot actually ask for it now (save me a parking space etc) and most of these i serviced with my portable in the past,if i took a rotary in i don't think they would feel the same at the end of the clean regardless of the result.

I'm positive that referrals are easier to get when you use hwe,thats my experience anyway. I'm finding customers are wising up in my area and have been asking me a lot more questions over the last two years than they did in the previous ten .

I don't think business growth would be as quick with encap cleaning so maybe that outweighs the savings you can make on  l m cleaning.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

If like me you have bought a TM for increased productivity then encap cleaning would do the same for commercial work as it's faster than TMing but the reservations are will it do the job?

Because we don't know we don't do it!

Shaun

[gwrightson]

strange opinion Matt,
I have been using cimex encap for a number of weeks now, giving the customer a choice and explainng the differences, low profile, and commercial I do push the encap, getting some good results.
I cleaned a retirment apartment in a community building last week, picked up 5 custy same building. Why ? I gave a demo in the communual lounge area whilst I was there, they liked the fact of the speed and drying time. by the time I had a coffee with them it was dry. as for hearing a t/m running !!!! I thought all the t/m,s wanted as little noise as poss   I can see your point though, attraction, people are curious to whats going on also when they hear a noise, having said that a big selling point regarding encap in a working envoirment , you can clean whilst people are still working very low noise, very fast drying , and no hazardous pipes , lines etc.

I have got my eye on a t/m though
Geoff

[gwrightson]

Shaun why dont we Know?
Have you tried it on commercial?
pop down to Hull and spend a morning with it and let me know what you think , or if you want Ill pop up to sunny sheffield and give it a go , when you have some commercial work in.

Geoff

[Shaun_Ashmore]

I used to use a Cimex nearly 20 years ago infact I know the owner and designers son but when I used it 50% of the carpets needed HWE after BUT the chemistry has changed now.

Shaun

[Matt Read]

You're right shaun, i don't think i believe in it or am experienced enough with l m cleaning to push it and prob sound a bit negative when explaining the differences to customers.

I think it's great for the commercial sector , as you say geoff,low costs and minimal hassle ,i'm looking to use it more if i can. i'm just not 100 % in my choosing the right carpets and amount of soiling to use it.

What are the long term effects of maintenance  pad cleaning ? do you have to do a hwe clean once in a while to deep clean ?

[gwrightson]

Matt,
forgive me if I am wrong, but I am not sure if you are confusing some of the methods
Encap and bonnet are differnent and the chems and machines are completly different, I was of the same opinion as you not really knowing the differences and benifits of the two, untill introduced by a well known and respected c/c on here.
Its not that difficult, just important to stress post vaccuming.


http://leonardo.solid8.com/webapp/solid8/servlet/SolDisplayNew?purpose=pagedisplay&username=truvox2&username2=1731931938&catid=1056&edition=176


take a look here

geoff

[stevegunn]

How much is the encap system?

Can you not just use an ordinary rotary with brush and encap chemical?