[stevegunn]

Done a leather suite repair yesterday custy just been on phone to say repair still tacky.It was the aerosol version I used, repaired head area and 2 arms and its still tacky.By customers own admission house has been closed up all day no airflow and it was rather warm today.Would an air mover help if it has still not gone off when I go and have a look tomorrow?

[*paul_moss]

Steve if it is LTT aerosol  finish then it should dry in seconds.It is either a bad stock ( check with LTT)or the repair has not been done correctly in readiness to apply the finish.

[LTT Leathercare]

Steve if there was any grease present (likely on these areas) then the finish will not cure properly and will feel tacky. Finishes will not adhere to grease.  Correct preparation has to be done when refinishing.  What was the process that you used? Any grease present will have soaked right through to the back of the leather before it is noticeable on the surface and can therefore sometimes  be undetectable until you get to this stage.  Also which finish of ours did you use?
Did you use colour on the area and if you did which colour was it, this also may have a bearing.

[stevegunn]

I used the matt aerosol finish used it before no problem.

Cleaned the areas using furniture clinics leather prep,dried area using hair dryer put colour on(light green),dried with dryer applied finish.Obviously did the process in stages and have done it many times with no problems.

Is there anyway of curing the finish if grease has affected the areas?

Not in anyway having a pop at ltts finish as I've used it on many occasions with no problems

[LTT Leathercare]

The finish that should be used is Satin Gloss first and then matted down with either matt or semi mat finish.  The Satin Gloss is a much stronger finish than the other two and is always used as a first coat on recolouring jobs. 

Unfortuanately mixing products as you have makes it very difficult to ascertain what the exact problem is. 

Am I right in thinking that FC's leather prep makes the surface slightly tacky to start with by removing the old finish?  We do not recommend this process and the BRIT system does not require this as the surface should be very stable to be recoloured. 
Was the pigment a bonded colour or BRIT colours?

Any grease prescence would present a problem and you would have to strip it back and degrease to enable the finish to cure properly.

[stevegunn]

The satin gloss was used first then the matt as a finish to dull the shine.

What product would you recommend to de-grease the areas it seems it has only not cured on the head areas?

[LTT Leathercare]

You need to use a degreasing compound which will take between 4-8 hours to fully remove all the grease.  It is not recommended that this is done inthe customers home as it can be a messy process when removing the degreaser.
You may have to do the process twice to entirely remove the grease (any grease left will result in the same problem) then you will have to prepare and refinish in the correct way to ensure the job is safe.

Hope it goes well

[Ben Staerck]

Steve,

This problem is down to grease and not products, as Judy has said.

I did warn you before you did the job!

Instead of using a degreaser, which can take a long time. I have found the following things to work.

1. Prep and then wipe over with alcohol cleaner. You can sand the leather with fine sandpaper to thoroughly remove any residues. Then apply colour & seal in.

I always recommend that way as you should prep the leather as best you can in the first place to avoid problems like this happening.

2. Apply a pre-bottom. I have found that by applying an acrylic first, stops the grease & colour reacting and so prvents the stickyness. Something like an adhesion promoter may work or our light filler.

3. This way doesn't always work, but if it does its the easiest. If you finish the leather with a water based finish and it is tacky, spray a solvent finish on and vice versa. This has only worked a few times but when it does you're laughing!

[LTT Leathercare]

There are no short cuts or reliable ways around grease problems apart from correct grease removal.

Preparing the surface alone will not help in cases like this.  Grease sinks deep into the leather and needs complete removal before products will adhere on a permanent basis.

We have used pre bottoms extensively in the past as at one time they were the only way of doing re colouring but now we have found that with the leatest  pigment formulations and correct use pre bottoms are no longer required and in some cases can cause problems.

The more products that are used in restoration jobs the more problems there are likely to be.  We always feel that the minimum amount of product/s should be used to achieve results.

These problems highlight the reason why we do not teach full colour restoration on our 2 day technical course but teach it as a seperate day.  The problems and difficulties that can be encountered need a devoted day for discussion and practical experience.

[stevegunn]

Steve,

This problem is down to grease and not products, as Judy has said.

I did warn you before you did the job!

Instead of using a degreaser, which can take a long time. I have found the following things to work.

1. Prep and then wipe over with alcohol cleaner. You can sand the leather with fine sandpaper to thoroughly remove any residues. Then apply colour & seal in.

I always recommend that way as you should prep the leather as best you can in the first place to avoid problems like this happening.

2. Apply a pre-bottom. I have found that by applying an acrylic first, stops the grease & colour reacting and so prvents the stickyness. Something like an adhesion promoter may work or our light filler.

3. This way doesn't always work, but if it does its the easiest. If you finish the leather with a water based finish and it is tacky, spray a solvent finish on and vice versa. This has only worked a few times but when it does you're laughing!

This is a different job.

Been to look at it today and in 2 places the finish has not cured around the head area.Customer told me the original problem has been there for 3 years so quite a bit of grease and oils have soaked into the leather.

Thanks for your help but I've sorted it now.Removed finish ,cleaned with alchol cleaner,sanded it,put colour on,put water based finish on and jobs a good one  

[LTT Leathercare]

Steve

Let us know how long it lasts please.

Thanks

[*paul_moss]

Steve this happened to me about 18 months ago. It was a  10 year old semi aniline suite , the chair had head grease on about 2 mil thick,about a 8 inh diameter.
I told them that I would have to clean,remove all the oils/grease then apply a pigment which would make that area totally pimented and a different feel than the rest of the chair.
I took it off site and it took nearly 2 weeks to remove the grease before I could procede with colouring.
I sucessfully finished the job onl to gt a call 12 months later to say that head area had started peeling off.
I had to fully redo the whole exercise a gain from the begining as when I stripped the area down to my suprise it was still loaded with grease.

May well worth be keeping an eye on this one Steve.

I wont ever do another one as its not cost effective and would be cheaper to get the leather section replaced by an upholsterer.

[LTT Leathercare]

Why did you have to pigment it Paul, there are products for redying and finishing semi anilines once they have been degreased?

As you say the area will probably not stand up to the test of tiem, especially with a water based finish.  We have just trialled water based finishes with a big company who have workshops around the country constantly refurbishing used leathers and they have found them not as good as solvent ones as the finsih breaks down very quickly.  It will be interesting to know the length of time this repair lasts.

Your problem Paul shows that the grease has to be fully removed before repairs can be successfully done.  What degresing compound did you use out of interest.

Regards
Judy

[*paul_moss]

Judy I used your aerosol degreaser, the reason i had topigment it was because after the clean i found that the grease had penetrated a small area ( about thesizeof a 5 pence ) so much that it had totally weakened it,therefore I had to do a small repair and it would have stood out too much if I had not pigmented it.

[*paul_moss]

Judy just to add to the above,i used water based pigment and finish on it the first time which lasted around 12 months, the second time around I used solvent based pigment and finish.

[LTT Leathercare]

Thanks for the clarification Paul

[Mike Roper]

I think this thread is a good warning to those going into leather restoration work - its not an exact science ,as I too have found out . In the case of colour/finish failure its very difficult to know the degree of grease presence. It only shows up once the work has been carried out either straight away as in Steves case or weeks / months down the line.
Just this week I had to redo in varying degrees about 20 antique chairs/settees that I previously did because of either an adesion problem due to body oil or not enough finish applied leading to the dark over colour coming off revealing the red under colour.
This only cost me my time , 8 hrs, and if this time it lasts for a reasonable period thats ok , lesson learnt, customer happy.
Another job I did years ago someone had spilled perfume on a settee, cleaned off and recoloured but the finish wouldnt go off and remained tacky. Flushed it with machine and cfr type tool and refinished , job done.
At times I have been of the mind to not do this type of work anymore due to the problems , but then I think its best to keep at it , learn from your mistakes  and it will come.
So again to anyone thinking of doing this type of work- dont expect to do a couple of days courses then go out there and make lots of money , it wont happen.
Mike.

[Roger Koh]

Dear Mike and the Forum,

Re: Leather Cleaning Science

Amen, “it’s not an exact science”.

You have hit the bull’s eye.

Right on!

The one that treats leather cleaning and restoration with respect to science will laugh all the way to the bank!

The one that doesn’t will cry all the way home!

Roger Koh
IICRC#942 LCT MTC MSR
Leather Doctor® System
info@leatherdoctor.org

[*paul_moss]

Mike
Very well put comments, of which I share.

[stevegunn]

Got 7 leather jobs booked this week varying from cleans to repairs.

Training that's the key get yourself on either the Ltt or Furniture clinics training courses there is money to be made doing leather.