[dudek]

I have heard people raving about microbore and how it can save water but can anyone explain the principles behind these water savings?

I'm struggling to see what a diffrence it can really make as surely the only two principles that matter are the pump pressure and the spray from the brush?

so how can microbore really have a bearing on the water consumption side of things?

Can someone please enlighten me as to what i'm missing

Dudek

[Jeff Brimble]

Think its called fluid dynamics where the water acts as a semi-solid/fluid within the pipe, eg try sucking/syphoning water through a straw and a hose, smaller diameter is easier to suck because there is less diameter. Oppositly lager bore neeeds more pressure for the volume of water. So you need a fire enngine to pump large quantities through a 5" bore pipe but only out small pumps for smaller bore. It gets complicated the further you go with fluid/hydraulic  friction from the pipe and the water itself slowing it down. So for the pressure to be the same over a longer distance you need a bigger bore that reduces to a smaller one or  hence micro bore, which means you restrict the flow and hence save water.
  blimey even I dont understand that lot. 

[Alex Gardiner]

Hi Dudek,

Microbore is really one of the best things that has happened to WFP. We have been using it now for 5 years and would really never consider using anything else.

The two things that really matter when using a WFP system are the flow rate of the pump (not the pressure as this just tells the pump when to switch off) and the flow rate from the brush head.

The main benefit of microbore is that it is easier to use, reel up, it doesn't get caught up as much, doesn't kink as much, is much lighter and you can fit twice as much on the hose reel.

A side benefit that we discovered when we started using it is that helps control the flow rate. The flow rate from a pump can be anywhere from 4-8 litres per minute, which is actually too much for general use. Standard 1/2" hose will slow this up somewhat, but microbore will restrict this even further due to the drag factor from the inner sidewalls of the hose. The other thing that affects flow rate is the size of jets that you choose on the brush. We have found over the years that 2x 2mm jets suit WFP purposes well. All of these will reduce the flow rate to about 1.5-1.8 litres per minute from the brush head if you are using 100m of microbore.

The above flow rate is about spot on for the average WFP'er.

[dudek]

I will go along with all of that its quite hard to get my around but i trust what you have said.

Thanks

[Alex Gardiner]

It's one of those things that until you try it you will never know!

5 years ago I had the idea of using 6mm ID  re-inforced hose for my work as I realised that it would be lighter and I could stop linking two 50m reels of Tricoflex together on my commercial work. I rang around all the major suppliers and most were not interested in the idea, so I sourced some from a hose extruder directly, (This reel has just been 'retired' only last month and we still use the same supplier for all of our hose) after using it for just one day I immediately switched all of our vehicle set-ups to it, it really does make that much of a difference to your days work.

[Londoner]

Also, the amount of water held on the pipe is a lot less so less water has to be pumped through to fill the hose before water starts coming out of the other end. If you have a trolley thats important.

Second, if you imagine a hose on a reel. Trapped air will rise to the top of each coil in turn and sit there. To clear that air out you have to wack up the pressure enough to force all the air through all the loops. With a half inch hose thats a lot of water wasted to clear the air locks out.
 Using microbore the air just seems to push through by itself a lot of the time without the need for special airlock measures.

Yellow half inch hose has a much thinner wall in relation to its diameter. This makes it prone to snagging because it is too flexible. Microbore is more "solid" and therefore snakes around obsticals. This saves time generally but since the water is on while you are unjamming your hose water is being lost as well.

[NWH]

I have 100mtrs of microbore and it keeps blowing presure switches and flo cntrls WHY.

[Jeff Brimble]

Maybe the column of water pressure is more than the pump is intended for, try cutting 20m off. Or get a bigger pump or higher rated pressure switch.

[Alex Gardiner]

NWH - are you using Shurflo pumps?

[NWH]

Yes i use shurflo pumps and eco-flo,my system was working with no problems for 3-4 months then all of a sudden i get this problem.I was told that over that time the switch is getting a hammering till in the end it gives up the ghost,thing is it`s blowing the flo cntrl as well as the switch.

[Alex Gardiner]

We've always used Flojet pumps with microbore and have never had a problem with them - it might be worth switching pumps?

[Jeff Brimble]

Flojet for me.    Both are USA  (probably made in China)

[Clive McDonald]

I was sold mini bore.
Are there any pros and cons with this or is it somewhere in the middle?
I'm happy with it, but I don't know any better.

[m.b.s.]

yes but with a flo jet 60 psi and 60 meters of 6mm microbore hose do you still need a varie  stream controller some  say yes some say no if yes why if no also why. mabe a good pole topic what do you think

[jeff1]

I had a 32 ton lorry run over mine today  It never even stopped the flow and there was no damage to the hose at all.   there is some good phisics for a microbore hose for you.

[Jeff Brimble]

Jeff
Maybe the "lorry test" should be added to the spec of all hoses.

Switching to Algarde silicon type 4mmID was the smart move for me in the last 10 years. But it wont do 100m unless you use the 6mm dia.

[NWH]

So why is the cntrl being blown,how can that be down to the pump.Some people have been running these pumps for years with no problems.I am being told that it`s down to the microbore.

[Jeff Brimble]

Ring these and ask for an explanation, tell them you are thinking of replacing your pump- ask for a catalogue while you there, loads of stuff, you could ask for Stuart in the stores.  http://www.dualpumps.co.uk This is the company most of the supliers use and the pump they use is the Duplex II- two piston By pass pump.http://www.dualpumps.co.uk/pages/diaphragm_roller/disphragm_roller_subs/flojet_electric_driven_pumps.htm its got a by pass 

I quite like the look of this wheelbarrow tank that I have just seen  http://www.dualpumps.co.uk/pages/new_prods_07/newprod_details6.htm#wheelbarrow

[m.b.s.]

why is it down to the microbore nwh

[jeff1]

So why is the cntrl being blown,how can that be down to the pump.Some people have been running these pumps for years with no problems.I am being told that it`s down to the microbore.

If the switch was a machanical one then the answer would be Yes! its taking a hammering, but the echo like the varistream are electronic switching and for there to be a fault in there you may have had a faulty one from the start. or the fault lies some where else.

Jeff
Maybe the "lorry test" should be added to the spec of all hoses.

 

I don't think 95% of hoses would stand up to this test, I must admit I held my breath when I seen the lorry coming up the road, I have had cars run over it for a past time with no affect at all.