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Llaaww

  • Posts: 2260
Re: RSI
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2007, 10:21:15 pm »
since starting with wfp I have been getting spots before the eyes, is this serious? :)
if it is dirty it is fair game

EasyClean

  • Posts: 558
Re: RSI
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2007, 10:21:43 pm »
Every 6 months I go for my regular check up with an occupational therapist at my local hospital and the nurse commented that window cleaners are high on her list of occupational strain related injuries.
Losing a customer is like waiting for the next bus, another one will come along shortly!

Andy@w.c.s

Re: RSI
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2007, 10:28:14 pm »
Hi all
I used to suffer with tennis elbow real bad
I was sat having a break in the car when i heard this homopathic doctor on the radio
well i phoned in and spoke to him < said that i was a w/c and that both my arms were bad and he suggested that i take some ARNICA
so off to the health food shop i went
well with in two weeks the pain had gone
If even now i have a tough day i take a few over the week and it just takes the pain away .
Guys try it it worked for me  :D

Mr.G

  • Posts: 364
Re: RSI
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2007, 10:30:10 pm »
after a long day, my left thumb hurts, I've not been able to figure out why, but its only started recently, and its getting worse..

Jeff Brimble

  • Posts: 4347
Re: RSI
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2007, 10:30:45 pm »
I used a backpack and an alu unger for years with no problems even though I have a prolapsed spine injury. I put some really meaty heavy duty MOD shoulder straps on and it helped.
My probs began with 2 seperate personal crises, on having to carry a geriatric 20kg dog up and down to our first floor flat 20 times a day for a year until it died and the other caused me immense personal stress which I think also switched on the long term problems. The right shoulder became hot then because I had to carry on working changed to an frozen shoulder that again I did not have time to do anything about. It took over 2 years to recover and left some sort of "shadow" injury that is also taking its time to go.
Did I mention the new RSI I have at the base of my palms. Trust me I know its RSI. Started as a white painless lump and developed into hot spots then gradually hot pain when holding the poles at a distance.
Rog this does not have to happen to you, become your own expert.

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: RSI
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2007, 10:53:03 pm »
I try to let the muscles do the work and not my joints,if i move my elbow in the same motion as you do when your playing say snooker or pool with the pole if you use this kind of technique you will get tennis elbow or similar injuries.I keep my elbow and forearm in a fixed position and use my shoulder muscles it`s a lot less stressful on the arms i find.

Paul Coleman

Re: RSI
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2007, 10:55:11 pm »
Does this topic interest anyone or would I be wasting our time ?

It's certainly a valid subject for me too.  Shoulder problems at times when working trad, intermittent elbow problem shortly after going for WFP.  More back issues since going WFP (though much better in recent months).

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: RSI
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2007, 11:06:43 pm »
I try to let the muscles do the work and not my joints,if i move my elbow in the same motion as you do when your playing say snooker or pool with the pole if you use this kind of technique you will get tennis elbow or similar injuries.I keep my elbow and forearm in a fixed position and use my shoulder muscles it`s a lot less stressful on the arms i find.
That's an interesting theory Mr.NWH.
It's probably correct too.
I think about that...

since starting with wfp I have been getting spots before the eyes, is this serious? :)
Since watching Girls Aloud on MTV I have been getting a sore wrist.
Is this serious?


EasyClean

  • Posts: 558
Re: RSI
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2007, 11:10:22 pm »
Quote from: Squeaky Clean.

Since watching Girls Aloud on MTV I have been getting a sore wrist.
Is this serious?


[quote

Only if you're getting friction burns!
Losing a customer is like waiting for the next bus, another one will come along shortly!

brett walker

  • Posts: 1943
Re: RSI
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2007, 11:13:08 pm »
Hi all
I used to suffer with tennis elbow real bad
I was sat having a break in the car when i heard this homopathic doctor on the radio
well i phoned in and spoke to him < said that i was a w/c and that both my arms were bad and he suggested that i take some ARNICA
so off to the health food shop i went
well with in two weeks the pain had gone
If even now i have a tough day i take a few over the week and it just takes the pain away .
Guys try it it worked for me  :D

Hi Andy Jasper ;D

i remember you telling me this at the nec show but had forgotten the name i would just like to say thankyou we had a great couple of days and learnt me a lot about business, i hope everything is going ok ;)

Regarding injuries i ache from my fingertips to my toes  ;D thats why it is inperritive you have a light pole to be honest its only really my right arm and shoulder that aches but this is an interesting topic, we can all learn something from it. Its all down to wear and tear on our bodies and being unfit :P

Brett.

Paul Coleman

Re: RSI
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2007, 11:16:54 pm »
since starting with wfp I have been getting spots before the eyes, is this serious? :)

No.  It's OK.  They're on the windows.

brett walker

  • Posts: 1943
Re: RSI
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2007, 11:26:44 pm »
I would definately recomend the gardiners superlite pole but it would only be suitable for me on my big commercial jobs lm  thinking of getting one next, on everything else i use an Ionics ergolite, just using my second one but it is light i dont know how people use those heavy ones all day :P

Brett :)

NWH

  • Posts: 16952
Re: RSI
« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2007, 11:30:07 pm »
Using a thinner lighter pole ie superlite seems to have got rid of a lot of those aches and pains,the thick base section on a lot of poles give me wrist pains and cramp in my hands if used all day long.

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2997
Re: RSI
« Reply #33 on: March 30, 2007, 06:44:07 am »
I for one had two badly knackered knees as a result of working off ladders my whole life, not sure I can blame that on RSI though, I think it was the fact that once up the ladder, your knees rest (albiet very lightly) against the rungs as you work, so the damage was cumalitive over the years :-\

If I'd had the benefit of hindsite I'd have used kneepads of some description...too late now :'(

I've had muscle strains since using WFP, but that isn't through RSI, but just through bad practice, ie, reaching sideways too far with a well extended pole to get over a peaked roof for instance.

My neck and shoulders can ache on some jobs, but again, that is more muscle fatigue, lactic acid build up and so on, similar to weight training.

However; I do have a niggling elbow problem, and that is more RSI related, and the reason for that is because I keep forgetting to change hands whilst working.

I keep holding the pole in the same way, I'm left handed, so my left hand is the top hand on the pole, the right hand is the bottom hand.
No problems at all with the right elbow.
And the left elbow is only a problem on low work.
If I concentrate and ensure I keep swapping from left hand use to right hand use I'm fine.

It is important that you learn to operate both left and right handed...it really isn't an ambidextrous thing, it's just a change of emphasis.

I think that lightweight poles and brush assemblies are vital to reduce the risk of over strain to our bodies.
The poles because of physical weight, the brush/goosneck/jets etc because at height and at awkward angles, just a few grams can make a massive difference on the strain you put your body under.
If your brush and gooseneck is relatively heavy, even with an ultra lightweight pole, going over the likes of conservatory roofs or reaching at awkward angles is going to be a strain.

At the trade show I saw some wonderfully engineered poles....and some really solid goosenecks too! Really robust things!!

Which is all well and good...these suckers aren't going to break down on you...they'll break your body first :-\

gotta go!

Work beckons...


Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

Paul Coleman

Re: RSI
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2007, 07:38:53 am »
I keep holding the pole in the same way, I'm left handed, so my left hand is the top hand on the pole, the right hand is the bottom hand.
No problems at all with the right elbow.
And the left elbow is only a problem on low work.
If I concentrate and ensure I keep swapping from left hand use to right hand use I'm fine.

It is important that you learn to operate both left and right handed...it really isn't an ambidextrous thing, it's just a change of emphasis.


That sounds odd to me.  I'm left handed too but my left hand is at the base of the pole and my right hand further up.
Although I don't swap which side I work with the pole, I do shift the weight of the pole onto my right arm periodically.  If someone were watching me work, they would not be aware of the shift of emphasis as it looks like I'm doing it exactly the same as my left hand would still be at the base of the pole and my right further up it.


Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: RSI
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2007, 08:35:34 am »
That's what I thought Shiner!

I'm right handed and my right hand is the bottom one.

That's Gilesy for you. ;D

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2997
Re: RSI
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2007, 08:41:48 am »
That's what I thought Shiner!

I'm right handed and my right hand is the bottom one.

That's Gilesy for you. ;D

lol, I also play snooker right handed..and always believed it was left handed! ::)

But whatever; educate yourself to swap hands, it just helps to balance things out.

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

Davew

Re: RSI
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2007, 07:01:58 pm »
Right handed too with right hand at the bottom of the pole. Daft really cos my left wrist is very weak. First few weeks wfp were really knackering especially on the wrists and shoulders mostly caused by wrestling with a glassfibre pole over conservatories.

Jeff Brimble

  • Posts: 4347
Re: RSI
« Reply #38 on: March 31, 2007, 09:25:02 pm »
Ok, so far  we have.

Rt elbow, trapped nerve in neck & tendon muscles, Tennis elbow, Shoulders, Neck tilt probs,Rt elbow and aching arms, Left thumb, wrist pains & cramp from too big section, elbow, aches head to toe, neck & shoulder, elbow, wrists & shoulders.

Causes and cures,  over reaching over cons, too thick dia.sections, use light pole, muscle fatique due to lactic acid, swap hands.

      Over on Pros.
Poleing rather than trad  is less aerobic which seems to blend both anaerobic and aerobic giving fitness and strength. Use pole correctly, use van instead of trolley, tennis elbow resonds to accupuncture, dont continually use if it causes a pain in the back, dont use glass fibre over 30ft, dont rinse off the glass, dont ignore pain do something about it. Warm up excercises, porridge releases energy for muscles slowly. Position pole properly rather than uase brute strength, use body to move pole. Correct technique will avoid all injuries, but you only learn this the hard way.. Poles are too large diameter and too heavy. Slipped neck disc due to bad pole technique.

Thanks to David Moriss ,
Repetitive strain injuries are linked to type of work conducted, the tools used, and the design of the work station. For example, most tools are made for "the average man". Sometimes grips are too wide or too slippery. Gloves may be too thick causing separation of fingers, or they may not be flexible enough. Tight gripping and squeezing with overstretched hand muscles is then required (the fact that standard hand tools are too large for many women helps explain why RSIs are more common amongst women). The workstation may be designed so that workers strain their bodies bending, stretching, reaching or twisting, etc.
 
Other factors contributing to repetitive strain include excessive work rates, lack of job variation, speed up, poorly maintained equipment, stress, overtime, vibration and inadequate training.
 
RSIs can be caused by overwork. Our bodies are simply not designed to work faster, more vigorously, endlessly or without rest. They break down, just like machines that are overworked. Rapid, repetitive motions with insufficient rest can cause RSIs. With overwork, the body is forced to work too much with not enough time to recover. This spiralling effect - coupled with stress, another contributor to RSIs – can cause injuries that might never heal without a long-term break from their causes.
 
And here is a link for anyone who wants to read more in depth about rsi
 
http://www.cupe.ca/Research/4223
 

Info in Pros WFP,  A-Z, "Back Pages"  I am unfortunately not allowed on this forum to put in links to it but if you search you may find more info there. I will try to  bring more info but am getting 1 finger typists rsi  :) Watch this reply as this is where I will bring it to.

Jason Atwell

  • Posts: 374
Re: RSI
« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2007, 12:01:26 am »
RSIs can be caused by overwork. Our bodies are simply not designed to work faster, more vigorously, endlessly or without rest. They break down, just like machines that are overworked. (quote from jeff brimble)

 ??? ??? ???

So what should we do then, work slower, dont do as much, have more breaks, if most of us on here worked for an employer, than we could put these issues to them, but as i am self employed like many other people here, lets be realistic and face facts, this is simply not going to happen.

Fleetwood Window Cleaning Services