[wimbledonhandyman]

Hi All,

Just thought I’d share my tip on posting leaflets.

Now I know this thread is about dog hazards but to my mind the majority of letter boxes are a pain when trying to post a leaflet. Either the sharp edges or the internal brushes make difficult to get one through without catching the fingers at some point.

Now this is the method I have used and to date its been successful for me as I am in the process of delivering 10K’s worth of my own and still have all me fingers intact!

First you will need to find a push stick – I use a flat wooded spatula as found in the kitchen drawer at home or can be bought for a pound or so at a kitchen shop. I was going to cut one out of a thin bit of MDF or ply but found this worked well enough so didn’t bother in the end.

The technique – I lift the flap of the letter box and hold open whilst positioning a leaflet in front of the hole so that the middle of the leaflet aligns with the centre of the slot with one hand. With the push stick in the other hand, I then push at the middle of the leaflet and it goes through the slot folding over the end of the flat blade. When it has been pushed through far enough, past the brushes or inner flap, withdraw the stick and you will find the leaflet stays on the other side dropping to the floor.

Benefits are the leaflets go right through so on one can complain about them sticking out all day whilst out at work, no cuts from sharp edges within, no more folding up at the brush strips and of course no bites to the fingers!

Hope this is understandable as it’s easier than it sounds and is a quick way to post with once you have done a couple and got your technique right.

Steve. 

Disclaimer - I share this information to the brotherhood of window cleaners however you are not to pass this tip on to others outside of the brotherhood and are responsible for practising this technique safety as it does not guard against dogs roaming freely. 

[Paul Coleman]

Hi All,

Just thought I’d share my tip on posting leaflets.

Now I know this thread is about dog hazards but to my mind the majority of letter boxes are a pain when trying to post a leaflet. Either the sharp edges or the internal brushes make difficult to get one through without catching the fingers at some point.

Now this is the method I have used and to date its been successful for me as I am in the process of delivering 10K’s worth of my own and still have all me fingers intact!

First you will need to find a push stick – I use a flat wooded spatula as found in the kitchen drawer at home or can be bought for a pound or so at a kitchen shop. I was going to cut one out of a thin bit of MDF or ply but found this worked well enough so didn’t bother in the end.

The technique – I lift the flap of the letter box and hold open whilst positioning a leaflet in front of the hole so that the middle of the leaflet aligns with the centre of the slot with one hand. With the push stick in the other hand, I then push at the middle of the leaflet and it goes through the slot folding over the end of the flat blade. When it has been pushed through far enough, past the brushes or inner flap, withdraw the stick and you will find the leaflet stays on the other side dropping to the floor.

Benefits are the leaflets go right through so on one can complain about them sticking out all day whilst out at work, no cuts from sharp edges within, no more folding up at the brush strips and of course no bites to the fingers!

Hope this is understandable as it’s easier than it sounds and is a quick way to post with once you have done a couple and got your technique right.

Steve. 

Disclaimer - I share this information to the brotherhood of window cleaners however you are not to pass this tip on to others outside of the brotherhood and are responsible for practising this technique safety as it does not guard against dogs roaming freely. 

The way this country is going, this will probably end up in an Act of Parliament within H & S legislation.

[paul wright]

any dog that bites a person   should be put down   if it bites once it will do it again  and the owner should be fined and sued

[Clear Vision]

any dog that bites a person   should be put down   if it bites once it will do it again  and the owner should be fined and sued

Totally agree with you. Yes I think the owner should be fine but only sued if there is severe damage to you and prevents you from living a normal life.

[paul wright]

even if i just had 6 stiches in my hand i would want paying

[macc]

even if i just had 6 stiches in my hand i would want paying

Depends on the circomstances, if you put your hand into my van to stroke him & you got bitten, TOUGH.

If you came on my property & got bitten, TOUGH.

If you walked over & just started stroking my dog, TOUGH.

Would you just put your hand in a tank if it had a snake in it,  , so why push your fingers through a letter box or go on his patch & if he protects it you should get money.  :

[macc]

PJ.

The way i read it was, give the dog chocolate it will kill them, it dont take much.

Maybe i misread your post, if i did i'm very sorry, honest.

If someone tryed to harm one of my dogs & kill one or both, i hope for there sake i never get hold of them. I'm not going to say oh well, never mind.

Saying that, if one of my dogs did bite for no reason i would have the dog put down. Not if they came in my house, garden or put their hand through the letter box, not that i have one anyway, its called using commen sence, something some obviously dont have.

Macc

[windows_chepstow]

Macc,

I know where you're comming from.  If someone tried to hurt my little dog, I'd want to teach them the error of their ways too; you can't trust our naff legal system; can you?

Our pets are an integeral part of our family.

[david68]

Hi All
Look all i say when posting leaflets is to take extra care...As for Macc who loves is dogs well good on you.
Can i ask macc this question
If this was your dog that bitten my fingers through letter box, would you have been shocked or are your dogs trained not to do this??

Lets say it did happen how would u treat the victim??

I ask this because the women just laughed at what happened which i felt was wrong.

I am also a dog owner and would never even think of hurting this dog or take these comments or jokes about the choclate.

Dave

[macc]

Hi Dave.

This is how long is a piece of string.

When i changed the front door i didnt put a letter box in. To be honest with you i have had a letter box on the outside wall for over 10 years now, because for the last 5 years ive not had a letter box in the front door & privious to that i sealed it so this did not happen.

How would i treat the victim? I would be concerned but then as a responsible Rott owner i dont have a letter box. I could see a potential problem & sorted it.

A responsible dog owner no matter what breed of dog, Rotts down to these little dogs that i call Rats, need to look & see what can be a problem & take some sort of action so things can be prevented if possible.

At the end of the day if i can take steps so the public are safer from my dogs, anyone can.

Macc

[mustafa]

it does happen to me 2 mounths ago. i told my custemer she said to me   her dog never done ot before i said (done it now)  after then i stop doing her windows   my health  is more imported then her windows .

[david68]

Macc that is a good answer to my question.

It was the owners attitude that shocked me more.

I am not a dog hater and will always ask customers first if their dogs are ok for me to be near them

I just thought laughing from this lady was not acceptable.

Dave

[paul wright]

even if i just had 6 stiches in my hand i would want paying

Depends on the circomstances, if you put your hand into my van to stroke him & you got bitten, TOUGH.

If you came on my property & got bitten, TOUGH.

If you walked over & just started stroking my dog, TOUGH.

Would you just put your hand in a tank if it had a snake in it,  , so why push your fingers through a letter box or go on his patch & if he protects it you should get money.  :

sorry mac but u are so wrong   your dogs should not in anycase bite anyone full stop  no  tough about it    :

[Ian_Giles]

It has to depend upon the circumstances, to say that any dog that bites a human will do it again and should therefore be put down is blinkered and shortsighted and shows very little knowledge of dogs.
If you step on a dogs foot, or its tail for instance, and you are a stranger to that animal there is a more than strong chance it will react strongly and possibly unpredictably.
It may well snap at you, but even if it does, in almost all cases the bite it might give you won't be a savage mauling.
All dogs have a bite reflex and most bites trigger this reflex.
The bite isn't a full power one, it's a warning one, the odds are it won't even break the skin.
If you get bitten by a dog that has not learned the bite reflex it'll have you down to the bone, even a little jack russell.

My dad had a golden retriever, she was as soft mouthed a dog as you could ever meet and would greet everyone by grabbing their hand in her mouth and 'walk' them into the house.
Technichally you could well call this a bite and if you ripped your hand out of her mouth you'd probably hurt yourself.
Their are some that would now bleat, "I want some compo! that dog bit me and I want it put down."
I know who I'd rather see put down
A dog sees some little fingers waggling through the letterbox, wrong though it is it sees them as something to play with, or letters as something to tear apart.
It doesn't make the dog a viscious beast, quite apart from which, as any postman will tell you - and as I said earlier - if your hand goes through the letterbox technically you are breaking and entering.
Therre are even rules about the how and the where of how postmen are supposed to deliver letters and gain access to your property.

If a dog is injured, or has come back from the vets after an operation, if disturbed or frightened it is likely to bite.
If a dog is blind or deaf and is surprised it is likely to do the same thing.

It is not a black and white issue, not all bites are because of some viscious, unpredictable and dangerous dog.

My own dog will have your hand off if you put your hand though a part open window in the summer when he is in the van, ditto if you were a thief and tried to nick my van while he is in there, but I sure as hell wouldn't have him put down if he bit someone in this context.

time is getting on!

Work beckons!!

Ian

[Trevor Knight]

I have a very large dog, cross alsatian/akita. He weighs in at 8 stone and is VERY protective of our house.

I also have notices on both my back gate and front gate explaining I have a dog who may be running free and to use the bell to get attention and not to enter. Our tel number is also on the bottom of the notice so they can call me if I don't answer.

Yet even still, I get people who ignore these notices and enter my property. This scares the hell out of me as I know my dog will bite them if he is roaming around. I now go one step further and lock the back gate and secure the front gate just to protect someone who refuses to respect my request and wants to enter my premises uninvited?

A final note:

I discussed my dogs behaviour with a dog trainer and he pointed out this:

People wonder why a dog snaps at them when they go to say hello?? The reason is this!!

1) you look at the dog (eye contact and staring is the 1st stage of threatening)
2) you smile ( dogs perception is now you are growling at him)
3) You put your hand out to stroke him ( dog thinks, your going to hit me now)

result - warning snap by dog asking you to leave me alone. I will come to you if I want to say hello otherwise leave me alone!!

I have read some of the postings on here about harming a dog who would bite your fingers if put through your door?? Sad, very very sad!! If a burglar put his arm through your window and you hit it with an iron bar, broke his arm, you would be sued and in trouble for assault. Yet in the papers it would be condemmed that a man cannot protect his property and that the burglar got all he deserved!! So whats the difference when someone sticks thier fingers through a letter box and the dogs protects his home?

[craig jwc]

I asked a local Policeman as my dog nipped a teenage lad hand one day whilst in my front garden.

The lad was teasing the dog infront of his mates whilst hanging over the wall and thought it was funny.

The Policeman told me that because the lad was leaning over the wall it was classed as trespassing and nothing could be done if the lad wanted to sue.

He told me that if someone climbed over the wall into the garden and was bitten by my dog nothing could be done.
He also said that if someone walked down my front path and was bitten then yes i could be sued.
The reason for this is beacuse the front path leading to your front door is classed as a public right of way, climbing over the wall isn't.
He also said that if someone put their hand through the letter box and was bitten, nothing could be done as silly at it sounds is classed as breaking and entering.


I am putting a fence on top of the wall now to stop these idiots teasing the dog plus have put a letter box on the wall and sealed the door one up.

I've been bitten loads of times by dogs, but don't blame them. They are only protecting their home.
My dog goes mad if someone comes near my van especially if my kids are in it.
He's only protecting the kids.
He's part of our pack and glad to have him.

A final note:

I discussed my dogs behaviour with a dog trainer and he pointed out this:

People wonder why a dog snaps at them when they go to say hello?? The reason is this!!

1) you look at the dog (eye contact and staring is the 1st stage of threatening)
2) you smile ( dogs perception is now you are growling at him)
3) You put your hand out to stroke him ( dog thinks, your going to hit me now)

result - warning snap by dog asking you to leave me alone. I will come to you if I want to say hello otherwise leave me alone!!

I have read some of the postings on here about harming a dog who would bite your fingers if put through your door?? Sad, very very sad!! If a burglar put his arm through your window and you hit it with an iron bar, broke his arm, you would be sued and in trouble for assault. Yet in the papers it would be condemmed that a man cannot protect his property and that the burglar got all he deserved!! So whats the difference when someone sticks thier fingers through a letter box and the dogs protects his home?

I agree with what Trevor posted.
I have a sign on the front gate, but people still ignore it.
The back gate is always bolted so i'm not worried about that. If they go over the fence it's their look out.

Craig

[Paul Coleman]

I have a very large dog, cross alsatian/akita. He weighs in at 8 stone and is VERY protective of our house.

I also have notices on both my back gate and front gate explaining I have a dog who may be running free and to use the bell to get attention and not to enter. Our tel number is also on the bottom of the notice so they can call me if I don't answer.

Yet even still, I get people who ignore these notices and enter my property. This scares the hell out of me as I know my dog will bite them if he is roaming around. I now go one step further and lock the back gate and secure the front gate just to protect someone who refuses to respect my request and wants to enter my premises uninvited?

A final note:

I discussed my dogs behaviour with a dog trainer and he pointed out this:

People wonder why a dog snaps at them when they go to say hello?? The reason is this!!

1) you look at the dog (eye contact and staring is the 1st stage of threatening)
2) you smile ( dogs perception is now you are growling at him)
3) You put your hand out to stroke him ( dog thinks, your going to hit me now)

result - warning snap by dog asking you to leave me alone. I will come to you if I want to say hello otherwise leave me alone!!

I have read some of the postings on here about harming a dog who would bite your fingers if put through your door?? Sad, very very sad!! If a burglar put his arm through your window and you hit it with an iron bar, broke his arm, you would be sued and in trouble for assault. Yet in the papers it would be condemmed that a man cannot protect his property and that the burglar got all he deserved!! So whats the difference when someone sticks thier fingers through a letter box and the dogs protects his home?

Trevor.  I feel that there is a big difference with climbing through a window vs. fingers through the letterbox.  Firstly, as a human being, you can make a more reasonable guess than a dog as to what is breaking and entering and what is someone delivering the post.  Secondly, if someone has a dog who goes for posties fingers, it's possible to either put a cage around the letterbox or, as some have said, to seal the box and have a wall mounted one.  Even though I might be legally entitled to claim the dog was making a reasonable defence of the front door, I still wouldn't want someone to end up injured for no worse a thing than putting a letter or a leaflet through my letterbox.  However, I would have no problem with thumping a burglar if I felt threatened.
I think the legal term is "reasonable" force.  A dog is less likely to understand what is reasonable IMO.

[Trevor Knight]

Trevor.  I feel that there is a big difference with climbing through a window vs. fingers through the letterbox.  Firstly, as a human being, you can make a more reasonable guess than a dog as to what is breaking and entering and what is someone delivering the post.  Secondly, if someone has a dog who goes for posties fingers, it's possible to either put a cage around the letterbox or, as some have said, to seal the box and have a wall mounted one.  Even though I might be legally entitled to claim the dog was making a reasonable defence of the front door, I still wouldn't want someone to end up injured for no worse a thing than putting a letter or a leaflet through my letterbox.  However, I would have no problem with thumping a burglar if I felt threatened.
I think the legal term is "reasonable" force.  A dog is less likely to understand what is reasonable IMO.

Totally agree that a dog can't understand the difference, hence my posting, in the dog's eyes you are attempting to enter his domain?

I agree methods can be implemented to help with fingers in letterboxes but my main reason for the quote was the regarding the reference to harming an animal for his actions? Thats what I believe to be a sad reflection on what is natural to the animal.

On another note, if you are delivering a leaflet and putting it through someones letterbox without their permission or request for such information isn't a dog snapping at a letter box par for the course?? Lets face it, isn't this method construed as junk mail??

[Paul Coleman]

Trevor.  I feel that there is a big difference with climbing through a window vs. fingers through the letterbox.  Firstly, as a human being, you can make a more reasonable guess than a dog as to what is breaking and entering and what is someone delivering the post.  Secondly, if someone has a dog who goes for posties fingers, it's possible to either put a cage around the letterbox or, as some have said, to seal the box and have a wall mounted one.  Even though I might be legally entitled to claim the dog was making a reasonable defence of the front door, I still wouldn't want someone to end up injured for no worse a thing than putting a letter or a leaflet through my letterbox.  However, I would have no problem with thumping a burglar if I felt threatened.
I think the legal term is "reasonable" force.  A dog is less likely to understand what is reasonable IMO.

Totally agree that a dog can't understand the difference, hence my posting, in the dog's eyes you are attempting to enter his domain?

I agree methods can be implemented to help with fingers in letterboxes but my main reason for the quote was the regarding the reference to harming an animal for his actions? Thats what I believe to be a sad reflection on what is natural to the animal.

On another note, if you are delivering a leaflet and putting it through someones letterbox without their permission or request for such information isn't a dog snapping at a letter box par for the course?? Lets face it, isn't this method construed as junk mail??

Sure thing.  I don't advocate harming a dog either - unless it is totally necessary for self protection.
As for the junk mail bit, surely junk mail and ordinary post are delivered through the same method?  Whatever the view of junk mail, delivering it isn't punishable by assault.  Several years ago, I was too sick to clean windows for a few months.  Even on the days when I had some energy, I was too light headed to climb ladders (I was trad then).  To help me get some sort of income, I got a self-employed leaflet delivery job and I had a few near misses - including dogs grabbing leaflets from my hand through letter boxes.  I even saw one letter box with a dog warning on it with a picture of a finger in plaster    .  All somebody has to do is to have a no leaflets or no junkmail sign on their letter box.  I can't speak for others but I won't push a leaflet through a box where it is stated not to.

[Peter.]

Hi All
Look all i say when posting leaflets is to take extra care...As for Macc who loves is dogs well good on you.
Can i ask macc this question
If this was your dog that bitten my fingers through letter box, would you have been shocked or are your dogs trained not to do this??

Lets say it did happen how would u treat the victim??

I ask this because the women just laughed at what happened which i felt was wrong.

I am also a dog owner and would never even think of hurting this dog or take these comments or jokes about the choclate.

Dave


I agree with you Dave care should be taken when posting leaflets, I am a new window cleaner and have very limited work, so I am posting leaflets. I posted a leaflet today and below the letter box was a cat flap, where the dog pushed his head out and tried to bite my leg, he was fast, but I was faster. Ha-ha-ha.

Peter.