[Lesa m]

A few months ago on here i posted a reply to a thread and asked if JWs found doorknocking came naturally as i know some people feel uncomfortable with it.

 It was a genuine question and it was deleted  

Who knows i might get an honest answer to a genuine question ?

Art
I have to be honest & say that I have never found the preaching work easy. It doesn't come naturally to me but that doesn't stop me doing it at the weekends.
When I was young free & single I too pioneered (Spent 60 or more hours in the door to door work) but still didn't feel terribly comfortable doing it.
I have often said if our organisation decided tomorrow to stop the preaching work I think I would have the biggest smile on my face. Now if you asked me to give a public talk in front of hundreds of people I would enjoy that, after all they have come to see you, not the other way round.

Hi Paul,

 So is it one of the things to do x amount of hours doorknocking if your a JW? Hope you don't mind me asking but i'm curious as i've never really understood much about it.

Arthur

Sorry didn't reply earlier, nobody is required to do X amount of hours if they don't want to or their personal situation doesn't allow it. I go out at the weekends only, so you can do the math as they say, that's not going to add up to a huge amount each month. But it's not expected of me as I have a wife & 3 children to support.

For those who don't have such responsibilities & who CHOOSE to do so they can volunteer to do so many hours each month. That is called pioneering. But nobody has their hand up your back, it is your own choice.

What is expected of you health permitting is that you devote at least some time each month to the preaching work.

Our name is Jehovah's Witnesses, so that is what we should do, witness or talk about Jehovah. If you don't how can you really be a JW?

[Art]

Art if you want the fact on unger who do you go to ? Unger or the men who uise Unger and might know what its really like ?

beware anybody who tells you not to look into what they tell you. thats how you get hypnotised

jo

Jo,

Believe me when i tell you this, i'm more than capable of making my own mind up about any sort of preaching.

As i said previously, JW's or any other sort of religion aren't hurting anyone.

Arthur

[paul mather]

Whoops, sorry, my Mrs has been using the laptop & was logged in under her name.

To some of the offensive posts on this thread, please don't carry it on, I started a thread on exactly the same lines about 6 months ago & eventually it had to be locked because of the agressive nature of some of the comments.

LETS ALL KEEP IT CIVIL PLEASE!!!

[Paul Coleman]

I've had a number of friends faced with that situation, not one of them has taken blood - they all made the decision for themselves, as for having to ignore her for 15 years thats rubbish and you know it - she's your sister - the elders and society would NEVER tell you to ignore her, they might have asked you not to discuss matters relating to meetings etc but ignore her?/ Never.  Supposed she was banned from coming to meetings?

Although the issue of taking blood or not may be an individual choice, the penalties for taking it have the potential to be severe though don't they?  Although a non believer may not regard it as severe, I believe a JW would?
After all, for some people there is a promise of future immortality and perfection from the day they were born (if born into the JWs).  All their friends would be JWs too.  Taking of blood leaves the potential for all the above to be removed followed by a friendless life and destruction at the pending Armageddon.  So yes, it is a choice but I believe the term is "Hobson's choice".  Having said that, I am aware of the policy of repentance/forgiveness/re-instatement that often comes into play in situations where someone has drifted (whether by blood transfusion or other means).

My memory may be serving me badly due to the passing of the years but I understood that unecessary communication with disfellowshipped persons was frowned upon even if not expressly forbidden?  BTW.  I was a walk away job.  Never baptised.  Never disfellowshipped so I am not a candidate for shunning (if it's still called that).

I don't actually regard the JW beliefs as any more strange than that of most other religions for what it's worth.  It seems to be immortality and perfection on Earth vs. zapped at Armageddon.  For others it's live your full lifespan followed by heaven/hell/purgatory.  For others it's reincarnation no matter what.

I have no axe to grind but am sometimes curious as to whether the JW faith has become more compassionate over the years.  I have to remember that my father was a hardliner and associated with others who had similar views so maybe my early perceptions of JWs was discoloured a bit.

[josephus]

Art i dont mind if you become a hindu or a mormon.


i dont like it when people tell anyone to ignore commen sense and beleive them. if you ended up loving them i wouldnt mind in the least, but im betting if ANYONE honestly studies thier faith they will be shocked.

this isnt a bad thing, unless you are in a cult. then its the worst thing.


cheers

jo

night all feel free to vilify me. ive got lots to do in the morning !

[jasonl]

An interesting thread, having been brought up a Mormon and having left 3 years ago at the age of 34 I  KNOW WHAT THE UPS AN DOWNSIDES oF THESE EVANGELICAL RELIGIONS ARE. Like some one said before, there are lots of great people living good lives in and out of religion and I DONT FEEL THE NEED TO be a part of one, to be a good person, good luck to you if you do. peace

[Paul Coleman]

Whoops, sorry, my Mrs has been using the laptop & was logged in under her name.

To some of the offensive posts on this thread, please don't carry it on, I started a thread on exactly the same lines about 6 months ago & eventually it had to be locked because of the agressive nature of some of the comments.

LETS ALL KEEP IT CIVIL PLEASE!!!

Totally agree Paul.  Although I do not share the JWs views on religion, I think it's healthy to disagree without being disagreeable.

[paul mather]

Art i dont mind if you become a hindu or a mormon.


i dont like it when people tell anyone to ignore commen sense and beleive them. if you ended up loving them i wouldnt mind in the least, but im betting if ANYONE honestly studies thier faith they will be shocked.

this isnt a bad thing, unless you are in a cult. then its the worst thing.


cheers

jo

Josephus please dont keep refering to us as a cult, the dictionary definition is,


a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.

We do not follow a charismatic leader unless you put Jesus Christ in that classification.

[Art]

Art i dont mind if you become a hindu or a mormon.


i dont like it when people tell anyone to ignore commen sense and beleive them. if you ended up loving them i wouldnt mind in the least, but im betting if ANYONE honestly studies thier faith they will be shocked.

this isnt a bad thing, unless you are in a cult. then its the worst thing.


cheers

jo

night all feel free to vilify me. ive got lots to do in the morning !

Jo, no offence to you or anyone else  

Things were getting interesting and then when i asked exact questions nothing? So maybe i'll leave it as it is.

[JM123]

the bible clearly states to 'abstain from blood'.  There are many alternatives to blood and nowadays most surgeons prefer to use alternatives.  In most cases where a transfusion takes place it is not even necessary.  One of my best friends was told he would die without a transfusion, he rejected it, had EPO treatment instead, had his operation and has more or less fully recovered, the consultant (who was flown in from America) to perform the operation was stunned with his recovery, better than anyone who had ever gone through a similar procedure.  Most of the post-operation complications come about because your body is busy fighting the foreign blood as well as trying to heal itself and so the body is run down.  Another good friend (not a JW) is a surgeon, he has studied medicine for 8 years - he agrees that Blood Transfusion is an outdated practice and has told me himself that he would not have a transfusion nor would he allow his family to have one, the substitutes available now are far superior to transfusion and pose none of the post-operations threats that come from blood.

That is why we refuse transfusions, to some it appears hardline and somewhat insane, if you're not convinced try googling blood transfusion substitutes or words to that effect.

Finally, in agreement with paul Mather, referring to us as a cult is derogatory, our faith is based solely on gods word with everyone encouaged to look to gods word for guidance. 

[JM123]

anyway, can one of the mods lock this thread, its gonna get outta hand.

[josephus]

god i cant leave !!


art sorry mate if you are interested in anything, ask away.


Paul

i agree you are a tricky sory of cult. but a cult you are


your history is superglued to your first 2 leaders. even claiming that your founder was the "faithfull and discreet slave" mentioned in scripture.

now you are stuck to the governing body, who tell you what is truth.

think about it, if you think something is correct, but they dont. your wrong. if they later agree with you,,, your still wrong for jumping ahead.

as to the other things you mention. you are certainly considered to be wrong by mainstream religion, though if anyone of a different faith agrees with you on any point they are masked as a "biblical scholar" and printed in your books. if you read Hans Kungs books you will get in trouble, but your religion can publish him !

as to living out of the mainstream, you do that too.

meeting  teusday/thursday night. sunday daytime. service, study. you can hardly be more out of the mainstream and you are forbidden many of the things the mainstream enjoy. ie voting, your choice of career.

cheers

jo

[Art]

the bible clearly states to 'abstain from blood'.  There are many alternatives to blood and nowadays most surgeons prefer to use alternatives.  In most cases where a transfusion takes place it is not even necessary.  One of my best friends was told he would die without a transfusion, he rejected it, had EPO treatment instead, had his operation and has more or less fully recovered, the consultant (who was flown in from America) to perform the operation was stunned with his recovery, better than anyone who had ever gone through a similar procedure.  Most of the post-operation complications come about because your body is busy fighting the foreign blood as well as trying to heal itself and so the body is run down.  Another good friend (not a JW) is a surgeon, he has studied medicine for 8 years - he agrees that Blood Transfusion is an outdated practice and has told me himself that he would not have a transfusion nor would he allow his family to have one, the substitutes available now are far superior to transfusion and pose none of the post-operations threats that come from blood.

That is why we refuse transfusions, to some it appears hardline and somewhat insane, if you're not convinced try googling blood transfusion substitutes or words to that effect.

Finally, in agreement with paul Mather, referring to us as a cult is derogatory, our faith is based solely on gods word with everyone encouaged to look to gods word for guidance. 

Thanks for the reply, but that was nothing more than deflecting the question i asked.

So my origional question wasn't really answered.

If you could without quoting scriptures answer my question?

[P®oPole™]

Jo,

I think you should just leave it at that, this is no place for it!



Pro

[JM123]

Intra-operative or post-operative blood salvage: Patients undergoing surgery sometimes need transfusions to replace the blood lost during or after the operation. In some cases this lost blood can be 'salvaged' by collecting it with a special machine and infusing it back into the patient. Giving a person back his or her own (autologous) blood cuts down on the need for transfusions from other donors. (Another type of autologous transfusion is described in the Blood Donation section, below.)

Blood substitutes: So far, there is no real substitute for human blood. Researchers are working to develop a blood substitute that will not have the risks of blood transfusions. Products that are being tested include hemoglobin-based oxygen carriers and perfluorochemical compounds. They can perform some red blood cell functions, such as carrying oxygen to tissues, but they do not replace human blood.

Most blood substitutes are experimental and are rarely used. They may be used as a temporary measure in patients whose religious beliefs do not allow them to have blood product transfusions. They may also benefit patients with rare blood types whose immune systems would destroy available donated blood. The substitutes may be used until compatible donated blood can be located, which in some cases might take several days.

true, but the body also produces blood very quickly - test studies have found that there is no significant risk in not having a transfusion (I'll try and find the reference).

Art - in a word No, JW's are not permitted to have transfusions although its not just as straightforward as this.

Thomas, how old is that information you have - EPO has been used for about 15years, is not considered experimental - it is expensive though, ut then again thats why transfusions have been used for so long - they're very cheap.  But hey, what do we pay our taxes for?

[josephus]

thats a deal pro my email stands anyway.

sleep well

jo

[Paul Coleman]

the bible clearly states to 'abstain from blood'.  There are many alternatives to blood and nowadays most surgeons prefer to use alternatives.  In most cases where a transfusion takes place it is not even necessary.  One of my best friends was told he would die without a transfusion, he rejected it, had EPO treatment instead, had his operation and has more or less fully recovered, the consultant (who was flown in from America) to perform the operation was stunned with his recovery, better than anyone who had ever gone through a similar procedure.  Most of the post-operation complications come about because your body is busy fighting the foreign blood as well as trying to heal itself and so the body is run down.  Another good friend (not a JW) is a surgeon, he has studied medicine for 8 years - he agrees that Blood Transfusion is an outdated practice and has told me himself that he would not have a transfusion nor would he allow his family to have one, the substitutes available now are far superior to transfusion and pose none of the post-operations threats that come from blood.

That is why we refuse transfusions, to some it appears hardline and somewhat insane, if you're not convinced try googling blood transfusion substitutes or words to that effect.

Finally, in agreement with paul Mather, referring to us as a cult is derogatory, our faith is based solely on gods word with everyone encouaged to look to gods word for guidance. 

I've no intention of discussing doctrine in any depth but my (admittedly addled) memory recalls that the abstaining command was a reference to actually "eating" blood (presumably meaning drinking it) and was given in times when transfusions could not possibly have been envisaged.  Having said that, I fully accept what you say about there being plenty of viable alternatives to blood transfusions these days and that transfusion is largely an unnecessary practise.

As for the "cult" label, I wasn't aware of the exact meaning and may have used the term myself in another thread a few months ago.  I did not realise that JWs found the word offensive.  So for my earlier indiscretion, I sincerely apologise and promise not to repeat it.

[Art]

Intra-operative or post-operative blood salvage: Patients undergoing surgery sometimes need transfusions to replace the blood lost during or after the operation. In some cases this lost blood can be 'salvaged' by collecting it with a special machine and infusing it back into the patient. Giving a person back his or her own (autologous) blood cuts down on the need for transfusions from other donors. (Another type of autologous transfusion is described in the Blood Donation section, below.)

Blood substitutes: So far, there is no real substitute for human blood. Researchers are working to develop a blood substitute that will not have the risks of blood transfusions. Products that are being tested include hemoglobin-based oxygen carriers and perfluorochemical compounds. They can perform some red blood cell functions, such as carrying oxygen to tissues, but they do not replace human blood.

Most blood substitutes are experimental and are rarely used. They may be used as a temporary measure in patients whose religious beliefs do not allow them to have blood product transfusions. They may also benefit patients with rare blood types whose immune systems would destroy available donated blood. The substitutes may be used until compatible donated blood can be located, which in some cases might take several days.

So it's a choice between life and death!

Let's hope that babies aren't  ever subjected to that choice and who has to live with the decision.

[Paul Coleman]

anyway, can one of the mods lock this thread, its gonna get outta hand.

JM123.
Personally I find this discussion interesting and hope it isn't locked.  Ok so "Josephus" may have the hump a bit but apart from him it all seems fairly reasonable and even he seems to be showing a certain amount of self restraint (though fairly limited maybe).

[JM123]

Propole - Jehovah is gods name, Exodus 6:3 Isiah 83:18, anyway, most people are not familiar with it because many of the churces have removed it from their bible.  By the way the references are from the Old King James bible (as used by CofE).

Art - do you think ANYONE takes the decision lightly?  Babies cannot make decisions for themselves and are therefore dependent on their parents, its a very sensitive area.  I know parents who have faced that decision before and again it helps to know what alternatives there are. 

Shiner, I just feel that sometimes the internet isn't the best forum for these sorts of things.  As for comparing JW's and beliefs to Unger??  I do feel very strongly though about people making assumptions about the blood issue when they obviously know very little about it - I lost a good friend not so long ago - he refused blood, it wouldn't have saved him anyway, the cancer had spread into 3 chambers of his heart and they couldn't see it on his scans, but low and behold some other people had a go at me because 'he'd still be here if he had taken blood' - nonsense, we want good health and value our bodies as much as if not more than most people - hence we don't smoke, drink excessively or do anything that puts our life in danger unnecessarily.  Now if we can please go back on topic, I think the original post was asking who on here is a JW?