[russ_clark]

Well I finally got my set up working the week before xmas,so I thought I would share a few of my experiences with you all.
I have built my own system and if I can do it trust me -anyone can!
Its a 650liter flat tank fitted in a citroen dispatch.
Its very tight on payload so I do not fill it up completely.
I have 2 x 60psi shureflow pumps and a 100amph leisure battery fitted and a split charge relay.
I had my mechanic bolt down the tank and an auto/electrician fit the relay.
I run a 300 pro RO and store the pure water in 2 x 1000ltr IBC tanks.
This is then pumped into my van when required.
My TDS fluctuates between 2 and 15 so I will need to add a small DI to polish off I think?

Well first couple of places I did one on the tops and me on the bottoms,
they were fine no problems except I had not jubilee clipped the hose on the pumps and the pressure built up when poles disconnected pulled off the hose and flooded the van!!!!
Fortunately I had protectakoted the floor so not too terrible.
The hardest thing to get to grips with is walking away from wet windows as we have been trad for 4 years now.The punters were given an explanation and were generally ok.Anyone showing negative vibes was also given a leaflet with basic wfp explanation.
Have found that uvpc frames are the dogs b"%*&!^s with wfp they come up great and the punters are impressed.The windows certainly appear to have an extra sparkle after the clean but I have not seen them 100% dried out yet.
I have left it with them any problems and I will re-attend and rectify.
We have the odd job with flat roofs where the poles cannot get near them and that is a pain in the backside as we have to get the ladders off but we still wfp them.
With wooden frames it is not so good it just depends on the condition of wood/paintwork.My fronts are wooded with flaky paint and have poled them twice now  they are still coming up with a few runs and a little 'chalking' with the paint.
I have found the worst frames are the old aluminium ones they just run forever
if you get a bad one.
 I have one house that has them all round and there is no way one particular window is going to clean up(in my opinion)so I will trad that window if necessary rather than losing the business.
The only other problem we have had is flooding the van second time!!
We were filling up van tank and we were cleaning hoses , etc at the end of the day and forgot transfer pump runs pretty quick- about 5 mins later we were running around mopping up the van floor again.
Steep learning curve on that one!!
All in all I am pleased with my investment- I know we are using too much water at the moment but we are rinsing loads.Our daily taking are down at least 25% currently as we are taking too long on jobs(longer than taditional way)this will improve as we need to re-vamp the round as some are just not viable with wfp.
I am 100% sure my business will increase in the next few months as I have spent a lot of time and money investing in it and it now takes the business to the next level.(commercial work).
We are doing our first proper commercial clean tomorrow (Thursday)
Should take us 3-4 hours and charged a normal days money!!happy days.
Hopefully by me posting this it will give others the insight to take the plunge-this forum is great for all the info I have picked up and contacts made.
I have still have things I wish to do in the van i.e. strainers/varistream controllers/etc and I am sure I will get the advice required from here.
Have a greatand prosperous New Year people
I know mine will be!!!!
regards
Russ

[Bazzy1999]

Im just about to change over in the next few weeks or days once ive worked out what system i want and after reading your great story it makes me want to hurry up..

Keep us informed on how its going.

Bazz...

[Davew]

Interesting reading which Despatch do you have? There are two different payloads available. Where did you purchase your equipment? How much water are you getting through in a full day? and how is your tank secured to the floor? loads of questions sorry. I'm very interested as I have been looking at all the options available including which van, static systems/fully mobile systems, how many houses I need to do in a day to earn a living against cost of equipment and running costs. My ideal solution would be a new Concept 2o van etc. But my word, I would have to turn over some serious work to recover the running costs.
 Thanks for posting your experiences - very helpfull for the rest of us.

[Ian Lancaster]

Russ:

Regarding "polishing" your water, why don't you fit a DI vessel in the line before your pure water goes into your IBC's?.  That way the water in your IBC will be 000tds and ready for use - no need for a "polishing" DI in your van.

Cheers,

Ian

[Paul Coleman]

Well I finally got my set up working the week before xmas,so I thought I would share a few of my experiences with you all.
I have built my own system and if I can do it trust me -anyone can!
Its a 650liter flat tank fitted in a citroen dispatch.
Its very tight on payload so I do not fill it up completely.
I have 2 x 60psi shureflow pumps and a 100amph leisure battery fitted and a split charge relay.
I had my mechanic bolt down the tank and an auto/electrician fit the relay.
I run a 300 pro RO and store the pure water in 2 x 1000ltr IBC tanks.
This is then pumped into my van when required.
My TDS fluctuates between 2 and 15 so I will need to add a small DI to polish off I think?

Well first couple of places I did one on the tops and me on the bottoms,
they were fine no problems except I had not jubilee clipped the hose on the pumps and the pressure built up when poles disconnected pulled off the hose and flooded the van!!!!
Fortunately I had protectakoted the floor so not too terrible.
The hardest thing to get to grips with is walking away from wet windows as we have been trad for 4 years now.The punters were given an explanation and were generally ok.Anyone showing negative vibes was also given a leaflet with basic wfp explanation.
Have found that uvpc frames are the dogs b"%*&!^s with wfp they come up great and the punters are impressed.The windows certainly appear to have an extra sparkle after the clean but I have not seen them 100% dried out yet.
I have left it with them any problems and I will re-attend and rectify.
We have the odd job with flat roofs where the poles cannot get near them and that is a pain in the backside as we have to get the ladders off but we still wfp them.
With wooden frames it is not so good it just depends on the condition of wood/paintwork.My fronts are wooded with flaky paint and have poled them twice now  they are still coming up with a few runs and a little 'chalking' with the paint.
I have found the worst frames are the old aluminium ones they just run forever
if you get a bad one.
 I have one house that has them all round and there is no way one particular window is going to clean up(in my opinion)so I will trad that window if necessary rather than losing the business.
The only other problem we have had is flooding the van second time!!
We were filling up van tank and we were cleaning hoses , etc at the end of the day and forgot transfer pump runs pretty quick- about 5 mins later we were running around mopping up the van floor again.
Steep learning curve on that one!!
All in all I am pleased with my investment- I know we are using too much water at the moment but we are rinsing loads.Our daily taking are down at least 25% currently as we are taking too long on jobs(longer than taditional way)this will improve as we need to re-vamp the round as some are just not viable with wfp.
I am 100% sure my business will increase in the next few months as I have spent a lot of time and money investing in it and it now takes the business to the next level.(commercial work).
We are doing our first proper commercial clean tomorrow (Thursday)
Should take us 3-4 hours and charged a normal days money!!happy days.
Hopefully by me posting this it will give others the insight to take the plunge-this forum is great for all the info I have picked up and contacts made.
I have still have things I wish to do in the van i.e. strainers/varistream controllers/etc and I am sure I will get the advice required from here.
Have a greatand prosperous New Year people
I know mine will be!!!!
regards
Russ

Yes adding a DI vessel souynds a good idea.  002 you could get away with but 015 is highly debatable.  I don't let the water I use go above 003/4 now.  I would just rather be sure that I've got it right than concerning myself with whether the water is pure enough.  There are bound to be teething problems when starting a new work method.  I had a fair few of my own whn switching to WFP.
You say that the work takes 25% longer at the moment.  Mine took longer at first too.  It got to the point where I decided to introduce WFP in three stages as I was getting too far behind.  Also, I was on a very tight budget and it affected my cashflow.  I've been WFPing over a year now and it was a real head bash at first.  These days I would not switch back to ladder work even if offered a 20% rise to do so.  My 6 weekly work cycle can now be achieved in 4 weeks (my workload is about the same - but for more pay).

[Paul Coleman]

Russ:

Regarding "polishing" your water, why don't you fit a DI vessel in the line before your pure water goes into your IBC's?.  That way the water in your IBC will be 000tds and ready for use - no need for a "polishing" DI in your van.

Cheers,

Ian

I have a 20" DI unit after the RO Ian and it works OK at keeping the TDS down.  When the TDS starts climbing too high on the sealed unit, I will start using the refillable that I bought a while back.  I also have a larger DI in the van too.  I realise that this sounds like overkill but it's actually the result of adding bits on at different times.  If I had had a static tank when first starting WFP, I probably would not have bothered with the van DI.  As I already had it when the static tank (and premises) came my way, it seemed a good idea to keep both.
Having two DI units at different places in the chain (one at static RO the other in the van) gives a bit of leeway with changing resin if I can't be bothered with it at the time.  Maybe I could sell the van DI vessel but it's worth more to me than I would get for it.

[macmac]

russ
what a great post, total honesty and a very realistic attitude.

i've been wfp for 3 years now and know exactly what you're going through. but let me tel you, no matter how bad the first few days/weeks are you have made the best move you ever could, you WILL reap the rewards of your labour very shortly my friend.

[russ_clark]

Thanks for the replies guys.
To reply to some of the q's:-
I have the 815kgs payload dispatch with the 650 tank fitted it is up to max payload
especially with a two man team-so I never fill to the top I am probably getting 550-600 litres and I never put in more than £15 fuel which saves on weight as well.All my work is local so I am finding this works fine at the moment.
The advice I picked up from the forums is put the biggest tank in possible otherwise you will kick yourself in months to come!
My plan is to have a one man operation and a second van on the road so there is a method to my madness
The tank was secured by my mechanic I had a load of plates made up by a local fabricator (£10 drink) The holes were then drilled through the floor taking care not to go through cross-members etc.Fortunately we used his ramp so it was a lot easier than trying to crawl underneath.I have to metal straps that cross over front to back & side to side and they are then bolted through the plates top and bottom(hope that makes sense).It cost me £60 to have this done and I am very happy with it .It is very very strong with the plates I was amazed how easy it was to drill through the floor.God forbid if this one was in an accident the tank would still be in place after the rest was mangled!!
The two of us are currently using all tank water daily at the moment - probably we are rinsing too much but hey thats what everyone says to do to start with.
I have issues that need addressing with the flow - rate but I think that can be cured by fitting a varistream controller - just not sure wether I need one or two as I have two seperate pumps??
Can anyone advise me on that one please??
Many thanks to Mr. Lancaster who as usual is tops on advice.
I am going to purchase a small DI to put in the van initially just to polish off as my TDS readings seem erratic.
With regard to putting a DI prior to my storage tanks I am not sure if the water would stay 000 over a few days.For example if I had a long weekend off would it need to go through again or would it remain 0000?
I will keep you posted on how its all going and please please keep on passing on the info!!!as I will too
If any one would like to see some photos of the system then send me your email direct and I will forward some.
It is not as pretty as the manufactured systems but it does the same job!!
Russ     

[Bazzy1999]

Hi Russ

Could you send me some photo's please..

mrdbar5@aol.com

Cheers

Bazz...

[Ian Lancaster]

Russ

Regarding storing pure water:  if the water is at 000 when it goes into your IBC then it will still be at 000 when it comes out.  For the tds to rise there must be a source of contamination, which there won't be within your purification/storage system.

I have some 25lt barrels which I used to use before I got my new van, and the few which still have water in them are still at 000tds after 6 months.

Cheers,

Ian

[Londoner]

A good start, about as good as it gets. In another week you will be ready to chuck the whole lot in and wish you had never got involved.

After that it gets better. Your story about the hoses blowing off happened to me on my fist day with microbore hose. Its such a silly problem but I was spitting blood by about the tenth time it happened. Lots of little things to iron out as you go along.

Oh yes, one more thing. You definitely need a DI. Anything over 002 or 003 is not good and 015 is too high.Don't buy one thats too small just to save money,

Good luck. You won't regret it

[russ_clark]

Bazzy 1999 and davew you both have email with pics.
Hope they help.

Had a great day today first proper commercial job
priced it up on an average days money - job completed in 3 1/2 hours
Happy Days!
Part of the clean was a large section of those glass block thingy's.
The pure water just ripped through them it was great- I used to hate doing them trad
Only problem I had today was a very small dripping leak on one of the pumps.

I had the buzz from this morning and went to price up a nice little ---massive private health spa -the ones with the Roman Columns -owner is a multi -m and owns lots of other buildings in the same area- so fingers crossed on that one-don't want to be greedy but really would be a good job.I know that another local guy - team of two do it traditional at the moment so will price it accordingly.
Did a couple of domestics this afternoon no problems at all.
The wfp is great at the leaded and square windows -the jobs that you don't really enjoy when you do them traditional.
Only other bad news is my tds is still high and I cant find anyone open to buy a small DI to polish off.Got to wait till Tuesday -unless anyone knows different??.
regards
Russ

[Paul Coleman]

Bazzy 1999 and davew you both have email with pics.
Hope they help.

Had a great day today first proper commercial job
priced it up on an average days money - job completed in 3 1/2 hours
Happy Days!
Part of the clean was a large section of those glass block thingy's.
The pure water just ripped through them it was great- I used to hate doing them trad
Only problem I had today was a very small dripping leak on one of the pumps.

I had the buzz from this morning and went to price up a nice little ---massive private health spa -the ones with the Roman Columns -owner is a multi -m and owns lots of other buildings in the same area- so fingers crossed on that one-don't want to be greedy but really would be a good job.I know that another local guy - team of two do it traditional at the moment so will price it accordingly.
Did a couple of domestics this afternoon no problems at all.
The wfp is great at the leaded and square windows -the jobs that you don't really enjoy when you do them traditional.
Only other bad news is my tds is still high and I cant find anyone open to buy a small DI to polish off.Got to wait till Tuesday -unless anyone knows different??.
regards
Russ

It depends what sort of RO unit you have but some are designed with a mini DI vessel as the last unit before the tank.  It can look the same as a pre-filter housing though.  Have a look to see the way the RO is plumbed.  If one of the housings that resembles a pre-filter is actually set up so that the water runs through it AFTER the membranes, then you may get lucky.  If you have such a unit, the DI inside may be a sealed one (which will leave you where you started as nowhere open) or it may be a refillable one.  If it's a refillable, you may have struck lucky as I'm sure there would be someone local to you who you could ponce some resin from until you can get your own to repay them.
The above contains a couple of big "ifs" but it is certainly worth having a look.
I had my RO going for months before I noticed that one of the "pre-filters" (as I thought it) was actually plumbed AFTER the RO and turned out to contain a sealed DI canister (I have since switched it for a refillable).

[Davew]

Russ, thanks very much for the photo's looks a very neat job you have done there. I was looking at a Citroen Dispatch yesterday with a view to doing the same, looks pretty tight on space but perfect if the van is only for window cleaning. Just got to sell my car now.

[Bazzy1999]

Russ

Thanks for the photos it looks great job you have done and it gives me some sort of an idea for my Citroen Dispatch.

Once again Cheers.

Bazz..........

[Count Phil]

The hoze popping of due to pressure is cured permanently by a varistream because it switches the pump of preventing the pressure rising to 100psi (or whatever your pump is). It really is worth the investment.

I was also much slower when I started wfp but still finished my 6 week round on time,so I sped up pretty quick . Then I soon started finishing earlier and earlier and looking for work. You will be pleased with the decision. Just go to all lengths to pacify moaning customers second time around. Be prepared!

[cleaning co]

i find all these ro bit confusing    some are double the price but dont hav a di built     then u hav 3 stage ones upto 6 stage blah blah lol    so many diffrent ones how do u know which one to buy?
 i hav 400ltr tank and will use it to clean conserv only and in hard water area    which one u guys think i shoud buy ?

[Davew]

I'm looking too. First thing has to be how much can you afford? Then could you fit it yourself? How much water are you going to use? one man or two man? If your working flat out you might need to fill up again fast then you will need a static system to come back to. I'm still trying to gather information and am shocked at some of the prices. Worth phoning around different manufacturers they all seem very approachable (of course). This forum seems a good place for info although some of the posters are very keen to sell their goods. It seems to be a pretty simple process to build an RO unit so why there are such vast price differences seems to come down to wether they supply large firms or the small guy trying to start out. A lot comes down to a corporate image some manufacturers are trying to develop.

[cleaning co]

these look good prices www.ro-man.com  ,  tell me what u think

[russ_clark]

Another good day today.
First time I could do second floor windows on a newish estate that I have cleaned for a year or so.Punters were over the moon -and so was I as the prices went up 
The houses have the small square uvpc type windows that take forever the trad way.We went for it and even doing additional floor windows we completed in less time.
My only minor problem was I still cant stop one of the pumps leaking a little.
Its from the white nylon screw in part on the pump .
Can anyone advise how tight you should turn these as I do not want to crack the housing.Is it possible to use a bit of ptf type tape to try and stop it 
Any advice appreciated as normal.
regards
Russ