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craig jwc

  • Posts: 1076
Re: the NEW argument
« Reply #60 on: November 11, 2006, 05:48:52 pm »
just like trad versus wfp.... residential versus commercial.......

its called cleaning windows ;

and we all do the same thing.... ::)

Go on, get in there! ;)

Yep -  it's all about cleaning windows and making a living Domestic or Commercial

Paul Coleman

Re: the NEW argument
« Reply #61 on: November 11, 2006, 06:24:44 pm »
maybe it is my inexperience...

or would that statement be a false premise too?

maybe it is my inexperience that allows me to say that Commercial is better than Domestic

maybe?

hmmmm?

or maybe what i say is right?

hmmmm?

maybe if a statement is said that is true it doesnt matter if youre an old boy or young gun.

if its true its true.

book for sale soon at all good retail outlets £50 +pp  ;)

Well the book bit was a joke  ;D
I am interested in building up the commercial side of my business and keeping the more lucrative domestic work too.  The cashflow issues of waiting to be paid on many of the commercial jobs are only an issue early on.  Once a money flow gets started, what you don't get paid this time, you're getting paid for last time.  Only a problem if a company goes pop without paying.
I would be genuinely interested in getting some help from you in getting more commercial jobs if you are willing to give it.  If not then so be it.  If you don't want to post it on here, I would be happy to give you my email address.
If you want it, just say so.
Thanks.

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: the NEW argument
« Reply #62 on: November 11, 2006, 06:54:28 pm »
Squeaks, you've some stange working practices!
You're the strange one Tosh if you try to order customers around.

She's a very rich lady, it's a good account, and it's done on request, whether that be 1 week or 3 months after the last clean.

It's worth keeping people like that happy.
I picked up another millionaire's job from her soon after.


AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 26702
Re: the NEW argument
« Reply #63 on: November 11, 2006, 07:00:49 pm »
Nice thread macleod:

I have a mix of both domestic and commercial.

It's a game of three halves!

Re: the NEW argument
« Reply #64 on: November 11, 2006, 07:04:06 pm »
You're the strange one Tosh if you try to order customers around.

She's a very rich lady, it's a good account, and it's done on request, whether that be 1 week or 3 months after the last clean.

It's worth keeping people like that happy.
I picked up another millionaire's job from her soon after.



Obviously I can't order anyone about.  I just set out my stall and if a customer wishes to purchase they can, but it's on my terms and conditions; not theirs and I don't give a toss how much money they have.

Anyway, so why has this lady asked Ian_Giles to clean her windows if you're so fantastic? 

I've still had four of your customers, and you don't have that many, ask me for quotes; for various reasons.

You can't be that good, mate.

Shine, glasgow!

  • Posts: 34
Re: the NEW argument
« Reply #65 on: November 11, 2006, 07:36:21 pm »
refer to this (Macleod's 'thing'):

Quote
firstly i have a look at 'fairly' big offices blocks... where the staff spend all day looking out of their windows...
i usally bowl into reception and as for a compliment slip - girls usally pleased thats all you want, and as they are passing it over i ask for the name of their h&s person....
as they are writing this down i say, who does your window cleaning? do they use ladders, how often, how many blokes how long do they take... just general chit chat

the perfect answer is when they say 2 blokes on ladders... cos i know with a wfp i can do the work of 2 blokes on ladders

then phone and ask to speak to the h&s officer
chat to the h&s officer and say "...you've probably haerd about the new work at height regs...."
cos they are h&s officers they either a) havent a clue what your talking about or b) pretend to know what your talking about
i say i will pop somthing in the post... usally dont ever get round to it as...
i then phone and ask to speak to who ever is responsible for window cleaning (facility manager etc etc)
then i say to them ive just been chatting to their h&s bloke about new regs, would they like a demo/quote

then bosh... i clean the van (new van with logo etc so looks very professional) have a clean shirt in the van, and go in and find out how important h&s is to their company, and what they are currently paying and see if i can honestly beat it - also most importantly i carry a huge file with all my traing certs, insurance and sample risk assesment and method statements showing exactly how i would go about the work...

very rarely have to actually do a demo, and win maybe 1 out of every 3

taken from:
http://www.cleanitup.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=16535.0

DaveWilkinson

  • Posts: 130
Re: the NEW argument
« Reply #66 on: November 11, 2006, 07:41:34 pm »
Great thread, was getting a little quiet around here, :)

I posted a thread a while back about how big and how fast could you build domestic cleaning round, there was some good replys and one interesting one from J.V.Price

" J.V Price Ltd started 37 years ago doing domestics by Joe Price at the breaking point we had over 25 thousand houses and you learn a very quick lesson that if it is not you doing the work yourself or your not checking up on it all the time you are at the mersy of the lads you have working for you"

25,000 houses, thats a major big round.

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: the NEW argument
« Reply #67 on: November 11, 2006, 07:56:02 pm »
Anyway, so why has this lady asked Ian_Giles to clean her windows if you're so fantastic? 

I've still had four of your customers, and you don't have that many, ask me for quotes; for various reasons.

You can't be that good, mate.
I'd certainly like to know why she asked Ian.(if she did).
For a start she dissed the pole system something chronic before, and Ian doesn't use ladders so he couldn't do it anyway... ::)

2 balconies and a big flat roof...

...and you think yours and Ian's customers don't ask me? ::)

Ha ha ha! ;D

That's the way it works, people will always try to get it cheaper elsewhere.
Especially the rich.

Mr. S

  • Posts: 418
Re: the NEW argument
« Reply #68 on: November 11, 2006, 07:58:35 pm »
Apologies Ian for using Caps, didnt realise it was offensive! No harm intended!

macleod

  • Posts: 200
Re: the NEW argument
« Reply #69 on: November 11, 2006, 08:09:36 pm »
wow!!

Shine, glasgow! that thread was a blast from the past - do you see how many snipers there are on here!!

 ;)


pjulk

Re: the NEW argument
« Reply #70 on: November 11, 2006, 08:18:45 pm »
Squeaky Clean Said -
Quote
You can't choose to do commercial.
It's just what's available at the time.

Thats a good point all the commercial jobs i have got came to me i did not go after any of them.

And the ones i did go after i never got anyway.

Paul

Shine, glasgow!

  • Posts: 34
Re: the NEW argument
« Reply #71 on: November 11, 2006, 08:49:00 pm »
do you see how many snipers there are on here!!

 ;)


yeh but whos the daddy?

macleod

  • Posts: 200
Re: the NEW argument
« Reply #72 on: November 11, 2006, 09:33:08 pm »
er youre the daddy...? and the CSA want to talk to you!  ;)

KJG

  • Posts: 293
Re: the NEW argument
« Reply #73 on: November 11, 2006, 10:11:59 pm »
Squeaky Clean Said -
Quote
You can't choose to do commercial.
It's just what's available at the time.

Thats a good point all the commercial jobs i have got came to me i did not go after any of them.

And the ones i did go after i never got anyway.

Paul

Same here. Only ever picked up 1 commercial by actually going after it.

As for the original thread topic, Macleod's area obviously hasn't been blighted by that 'locust' firm Mitie. I've lost 5 long term so called loyal jobs to the greedy b@stards this year. Commercial ain't the be all and end all of window cleaning.

neil100

  • Posts: 1137
Re: the NEW argument
« Reply #74 on: November 11, 2006, 11:04:08 pm »
I wont say no to commercial work, Though It only makes up about 2% of my round.

I have a Domestic round and its provided me with an exellent standard of living for over 26 years.

I would not be a lot better off on commercial work. We have a couple of muppet w/cleaning companys around where I live who pay their staff about £6 an hour. So the Boss works on a low profit margin but as most of the contract work sewn up.

But my Domestic round can pay 50k a year, How much more could I earn on commercial work?

Nel.

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2997
Re: the NEW argument
« Reply #75 on: November 12, 2006, 06:58:01 am »
The last time I mentioned that house to you Roger you said you had not done it for months and months, you even said something along the lines of it being a pain even though it was a big account.
The woman came to me while I was in the driveway of the other account, why the hell would I call on a building site>? Which is what it is at the moment.
I don't tout for any work, don't need to, picking up 2 or 3 accounts every week.

If she is still your customer then fine, I'm not bothered in the least, in fact when she does ring me and ask for a quote (which she will) I will point her in your direction.

But you also have to ask yourself what was she doing coming up to me in the first place?
I know full well you would always have done a good job, and whatever you were charging her would have been relatively cheap too.

One thing you can never, ever accuse me of is taking work off you, the only one I do that too is Simon.
Niether would I ever diss your work or method either.
Bare in mind a tiny little shop you did for a couple of cleans that Simon now does.
When she told you that she wasn't happy with my system, what did you do?
you took the account, I'll bet you even told her how (in your opinion) it leaves spots, its no good, etc etc.
Rather than telling her (as I would have done were it you cleaning the windows) that Ian never does a poor job, and the method used is first rate.

I would then have contacted you and told you of the complaint (as I've done on several occasions when your customers have rang me to ask where you are)

In fact if one of Simon's customers talk to me, I never diss him or his work either, though I'll take work off him at the drop of a hat given the chance.

I have a work ethic/moral that I stick to rigidly.

             .................................................................................................

However; back to the topic!

Commercial isn't the be all and end all, Macleod is very wrong on his opinion of domestic work.
I've been going 23 years, so I can be classed as an old timer, but my current domestic round has been built up over the last 2 and a half years, it is this work that is paying for my van, or at least the work I picked up over the first 9 months after going WFP.
Since then, the new work picked up swells my bank balance and has allowed me to hit turnover targets I'd never have dreamed possible before.

Some commercial work is fantastic, medium sized offices and so on...first rate.
If you have the nerve to put in the right price you can get incredibly good money.

I'm talking about what on the surface looks like a really large job, one that done trad would take you 5 hours or more.
Priced trad you'd probably put in a price of perhaps a £100 - £150 and consider it good money.
You'll be shattered of course as it will probably be a 3 storey office.
Providing you have WFP, this same job will get banged out in an hour and a half, and if you are charging at the same rate as before (one that is competitive with a trad firm) then you will be raking it in ;)
But make hay while the sun shines, these jobs will disappear as more and more go over to WFP.
That market will get more and more competitive.
The bigger commercial stuff is much more tightly priced as it is, if a job is going to take several days for a single man to do then the job can run into several hundred quid, or even a few thousand on really big stuff.
You ain't gonna make £50 or £60 an hour on those jobs!

But you can and always will be able to on well priced domestics.

I have a lot of accounts between £20 and £40 that all pay very well indeed, and these and others like them aren't likely to change any time soon.

Roy Harding does mostly Domestic, and he does absolutely fantastic, not many will equal Roy on here, he has really got it sussed.

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

Pj

Re: the NEW argument
« Reply #76 on: November 12, 2006, 07:53:15 am »
Well done Macleod!

I didn't think we'd get 'The Chepstow 3' back fighting so aggressively, or as soon!
Good to see they haven't gone all pally pally ;D

Terry_Burrows

  • Posts: 1643
Re: the NEW argument
« Reply #77 on: November 12, 2006, 08:48:19 am »
The one thing we never did was dom work,could never be bothered with the petty people of the houses flats what ever :-\ ;D any way the last time I did one I got 6 months for it :D
WWW.FASTESTWINDOWCLEANER.CO.UK
GUINNESS WORLD RECORD HOLDER
BURNING RUBBER FASTER!
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF MASTER WINDOW CLEANERS.

shammy davis jnr

  • Posts: 543
Re: the NEW argument
« Reply #78 on: November 12, 2006, 09:45:54 am »
well well well  ive watched this for a while now superb argument why if you are the ultimate jedi and took over the universe dont you share your wisdom on here with all
as how to beat the likes of mite ocs initial etc who tell you what you do the job for our should i say how many washers they give you for each job
this is not a dig but if you are a brother w cleaner a tall you would give us your views on how you deal with these giants
as i feel if we all could do the same and m,bee some of the good guys will indevour to take a few from them in future
this will give the new and old something to think about
i have my own ideas as how to do it ,
would like to see others ideas as how to be a boss not a puppet
this would be a beter argument and more preductive for all who care  about the industry
yours shammy davis
these are the guys that need addressing not your old guy up a ladder 

Kev TWC

  • Posts: 56
Re: the comargument
« Reply #79 on: November 12, 2006, 10:55:42 am »


hi  macleod   how   big  is your  company   have  you got  any  employees       i do only  comercial work ,i was thinking of going back and doing some domestic work to get my cash flow back up then i remembered how much harder the domestic work was go back 20 years i remember doing some terraced houses getting my ladders stuck on washing lines ,covered in dog doo but i still think that having some domestic work does help iam thinking about it ,my company turns 350k i still belive that makes me a small company and the problems i have with my comercial work life would be more stress free just domestic,i also know that with having just comercial work everbody is always after your work compertition is always high ,as for £30 for a book    i will tell you for free  it was a good post it stired everbody   kev twc.