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P®oPole™

  • Posts: 985
Re: lost customers to wfp
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2006, 03:42:02 pm »
Quote
Your Wrong Agian!!!

What???  ???

I thought Squeaky was never wrong?  ;)

Andy


I never said that, he is allways wrong.

ProPole

supernova77

  • Posts: 3547
Re: lost customers to wfp
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2006, 03:58:13 pm »
You said of Squeaky - "You're wrong again". I was simply being carcastic in saying that he was never wrong.  ::)

Andy

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: lost customers to wfp
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2006, 03:58:26 pm »
Actually I'm not wrong, you're all just biased and can't face facts. ;)

You wouldn't want to eat your dinner off it, believe me.
Where as you use washing up liquid to clean your plates that you eat off.

So there you go.
You wouldn't eat out at a place where they just rinse cutlery with water!!!! ;D ;D
All those spots are dirt!

You lot are so dumb sometimes. ;D ;D LOL.

supernova77

  • Posts: 3547
Re: lost customers to wfp
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2006, 04:01:50 pm »
Quote
You wouldn't eat out at a place where they just rinse cutlery with water!!!!

I would if they had used pure water and scrubbed them first before rinsing :)


Quote
All those spots are dirt!

I don't get spots on any windows that I clean with WFP  ;)

Andy

P®oPole™

  • Posts: 985
Re: lost customers to wfp
« Reply #24 on: October 22, 2006, 04:04:01 pm »
Andy ;D ;D

Squeaky I dont get spots either!

Also "Sterile" means totally clean. Babies bottles are cleaned with pure water before there packaged, so they are sterile therefore nothing can be cleaner!!

Pro


Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2997
Re: lost customers to wfp
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2006, 04:06:06 pm »
On double glazed windows, if the weather conditions are just right, then you WILL get condensation on the outer pane of glass.
If it is a breezy night then any condensation will have gone by the time the customer wakes up.
Another thing that may induce the glass to condensate is the fact that there is no film of detergent left on the glass.
That film may well me next to invisible, but with any window cleaned trad it will always be there.
Probably makes very little difference in truth, but it may be the difference  between it condensating one day and not on another day.
Either way, there is nothing you can do about condentsation no matter how it happens.


Ian

Oh dear, squeaks has to chip in and take a pop at WFP on a WFP thread again....

And in a very specific way he is utterly wrong...

Glass cleaned with purified water can be ultra clean, it is used in the optical world and in labs to clean glass to incredibly high standards.

Outdoors of course we have the weather to contend with, but Neil is absolutely right, and time after time you will clean windows to a very high standard with WFP, Roger doesn't use WFP so only has anecdotal evidence, he has no real knowledge or understanding of WFP, or even of just how clean you can get windows using it.

In the right hands it does a fully top rate job, so much so that you will often read of those who use it saying how much longer the glass stays cleaner.

And for Roger to make the claim that it can't do the job as good as can do it....

Dude, I keep offering to prove to  you just how good a job WFP can do, and every time you find an excuse to bottle out of it.

Just as you will get poor Trad window cleaners, you will get poor WFP window cleaners.
It isn't the tools being used that do a poor job, it is the person wielding the tool that does either a good or bad job.


Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

Re: lost customers to wfp
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2006, 05:22:16 pm »
Squeeky like Ian said every time you are given the cahnce to prove yourself against a water fed pole operator you dont seem to respond.

And with all the mouth you give regarding how crap water fed poles are etc etc your lucky no one has issued you with a liable suit as im sure youve probablly slagged alot of the window cleaners on here to your customers and other people.No person on here has even said that cleaning windows by hand is usless because we have all at some time cleaned by hand but have invested our time and money into this equipment thats allows us to clean windows to a good standard but something you have so often rubbished.
Take note just because you are on a website forum you may think you are exempt form th following.

English law allows actions for libel to be brought in the High Court for any published statements which defame a named or identifiable individual or individuals in a manner which causes them loss in their trade or profession, or causes a reasonable person to think worse of him, her or them.

A statement can include an implication. "A window cleaner who uses a water fed pole cannot do a better job than someone with a squeegge because water fed poles do not work.

The allowable defences against libel are:

Justification: the defendant proves that the statement was true. If the defence fails, a court may treat any material produced by the defence to substantiate it, and any ensuing media coverage, as factors aggravating the libel and increasing the damages.






AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 26576
Re: lost customers to wfp
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2006, 05:56:03 pm »
Oh dear, squeaks has to chip in and take a pop at WFP on a WFP thread again....

Dude, I keep offering to prove to  you just how good a job WFP can do, and every time you find an excuse to bottle out of it.



Ian

This is true, Roger. Ian has time and again given you the opportunity to show how trad. is superior to wfp - so why do you not stand by your words and prove him wrong?
It's a game of three halves!

dai

  • Posts: 3503
Re: lost customers to wfp
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2006, 06:23:30 pm »
Squeaky, I don't know where you are coming from mate. I didn't lose my trad skills all of a sudden because I use WFP.
Like most guys on here that use it, we still clean some windows trad. Believe me,
After many years in the game, I have to hold my hands up and be honest.
WFP DOES A BETTER JOB THAN I CAN TRAD. I'm not a bad window cleaner using trad methods, after all I've kept my customers happy for many years doing them that way. If you can do the outsides on a sunny day, then do the insides and find not a single mark on the glass when you have finished. Well you are a better man than me mate, and I am in awe of you. Dai

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: lost customers to wfp
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2006, 07:44:22 pm »
I've got nothing to prove. ;)
My methods are already proven, and accepted by everyone as the best.

Every time I see wfp used it's left spots.

We went to Burger King in Cardiff last week and my missus said "windows done with wfp weren't they!?"
When I looked up to the light I could see what a mess they were. :o
How we laughed. ;D

We stayed at a Travel Inn not long back, and what a surprise....spotty windows.

The old folks home I do which is sometimes also done by the council...spotty windows.

3 or 4 shops Ian himself does in town...yep, complained to me about spotty windows.

See a pattern emerging here?

You think Ian doing a job carefully when he knows I'm inspecting it is going to prove all this wrong?

I don't think so. ;D

poleman

  • Posts: 2854
Re: lost customers to wfp
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2006, 08:17:12 pm »
We have lots of happy WFP customers

This is a e-mail from a very happy new customer  8)

Good morning Andrew,

 

I have tried to contact your office by phone but have got no reply so have resorted to modern technology!!

 

I wanted to speak to you to discuss a regular cleaning programme of the windows here at Avon Tyrrell. The result you achieved with your system was above expectations and your approach to H & S fully met our requirements on this site. I thought that a quarterly clean would be sufficient starting in January next year. Also as mentioned when you where here, there are several windows inside which due to their height and location I would like to be add to your ‘round’ if that is possible.

 

Please call me at your convenience.




dai

  • Posts: 3503
Re: lost customers to wfp
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2006, 08:35:31 pm »
Your right sqeaky, WFP may leave a few spots, but my customers don't notice or never complain about them.
I may leave a few spots on the occasional window but I used to leave a few streaks when I was trad. The windows may have looked perfect when I did them but they wern't. I bet most guys have been collecting on winter nights, and seen streaks on the glass when the lights on inside and the cutains are open.
It's not possible to see what streaks you leave when customers have net curtains up either.
Squeaks I am being honest, I had occasional complaints when I was trad, I don't get any now though. So what does that tell you? I am a concienses window cleaner and always try and do a perfect job every time.
An old shiner once told be "theres no such thing as a perfectly clean window"
Our work would not stand up to forensic examination.
I'm closer to it now though than ever I was before.
I can speak from  experience that you have not had yet. If you had used WFP and packed it up to go trad, your arguments would have some validity.
Theres none as blind as those that don't want to see.
Not having a go at you squeaks, or any other trad guys. I still am one for some of my work. But your arguements would have some meaning if they were coming from your personel experience with using WFP.
I do think your more than a bit of a wind up artist though, and enjoying the attention your posts provoke on this forum.
Don't stop though, it sometimes keeps things interesting. Dai

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2997
Re: lost customers to wfp
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2006, 09:47:42 pm »
Name the shops Roger.

One may have been the shop Em works in,....was kind of justified at that point, there were spots on the glass, hands up, I'll admit it, but that was the only time, and I'll also warrent that if they attempted to clean the insides they would also find fault were it done trad (as I have no option but to do it now due to the windows being leaky)
Whether done with squeegee or scrim/microfibre you will either find kicks from the squeegee due to the size of the glass (just like I watched you leaving on the paintshop on almost every pane you squeeged...trust me mate, I've employed window cleaners for years and I assure you I know what to look for, and if you cleaned the inside of those windows those kicks would show up, and I know full well because as you know I did inside and out of those windows every 2 weeks for several years when it was an opticians)
You also made an aside some months ago about the chinese furniture shop...reckoned you saw spots.....you did indeed see them....they were inside and the owner pointed out these spots in the belief they were outside....a single wipe with a cloth proved otherwise.
You also made several comments about the large fabric shop too, never a single flaw on that place...ever, and I'll challenge you to prove me wrong, when I told you I would take it up with the owner you were very reticent about me doing so, when I did he told me he never even knew you and had never spoken to you about them (or his wife who you said approached you at traffic lights).
Take a look at those windows...you could not get near that standard of clean, don't forget, I do the entire frontage and all of the paintwork all the way around.

If you are going to accuse me of poor work on an open forum, be very sure of your facts, and be prepared to back them up, because I most certainly am.

Go along to a job no more than an hour or so after I've cleaned them, the glass will have dried and at that point, if you can fault my work I'll eat my hat.

I have perhaps a half dozen shop windows where WFP is not the best tool for the job, and yes, I still use WFP on them, georgian and awkward height being the reason.

Mistakes occasionally happen, nobody is pefect, but you are utterly wrong in your assumption that WFP does a poor job, you keep bleating on about it, claiming time after time that it is not the equal of Trad, and then claim you have nothing to prove when offered the chance to either prove or disprove your claims.

In fact on one thread when pushed about the offer, you claimed something along the lines of, 'Whats the point? Ian will make sure he does a perfect job.'

DUH!!!

Hello??? That my friend is the whole bloody point!

And I'll do it at the very least as fast as you will and the frames, doors and surrounds will also be done >:(

And the bigger the job, the faster it will be done relative to what you could do it in.

Your own personal comments have once again turned a perfectly reasonable thread into Trad v WFP.

And you are also implying I don't do a good job...something I have never, ever said about you. (until now perhaps, you get paid a very good price for that paintshop....when was the last time you bothered to clean the panes of glass directly above the door? I was charging almost half what you are getting and I did them every time without fail, skipping windows was something I never did.

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

rosskesava

Re: lost customers to wfp
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2006, 10:04:45 pm »
Sqeaks, you've backed yourself into a corner there.  :-\

Wouldn't it be easier just to admit that you don't like wfp? You don't have to have a reason as we are all entitled to think what we will.

I don't like wfp one bit, not so much for the quality of work, although I've yet to see a perfect job, but I find it so much hassle. That is my opinion and experience and I accept it may possibly be wrong but if other window cleaners are content doing the job wfp, then more power to their elbow, and shoulders, and aching arms..etc.

Last week a window cleaner I know stopped for a chat while I was doing some windows with wfp and he went on about how useless wfp was. I kept saying to him that it does the job I want done and to the standard I want it done to. And that is the point. If I or someone else is happy with wfp, let them be that way even if the windows are all spotty or not.

Cheers


Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: lost customers to wfp
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2006, 10:06:39 pm »
....when was the last time you bothered to clean the panes of glass directly above the door? I was charging almost half what you are getting and I did them every time without fail, skipping windows was something I never did.
Funny that. They told me not to bother with them.

That woman did approach me at the lights about taking over, yes.
How would I have known which account it was, or what car she drives, or what he looked like otherwise?

The other ones?
Threshers as you said.
Equilibrium who dropped you, and asked for a "proper" cleaner (their words not mine).
The other one being Cancer Research, although it's probably new people now, so they may be fine with it.

I've never doubted the standard of your skills, you're probably the best about.
I learnt from you, so you must be.  :P

I just don't rate the system you use.
You're better than that.

supernova77

  • Posts: 3547
Re: lost customers to wfp
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2006, 11:20:30 pm »
LOL - This is funny lads... Keep it up, it's like being back at school  :D

rugby

  • Posts: 360
Re: lost customers to wfp
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2006, 12:08:10 am »
 :-X  i only asked for advice, didnt want to start a fight

Ian_Giles

  • Posts: 2997
Re: lost customers to wfp
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2006, 06:03:32 am »
.
F?
Threshers as you said.
Equilibrium who dropped you, and asked for a "proper" cleaner (their words not mine).
The other one being Cancer Research, although it's probably new people now, so they may be fine with it.

I just don't rate the system you use.
You're better than that.


As I said, apart from that one occasion, the Threshers shop was absolutely perfect everytime they were done.
Their were spots on Equilibrium...yet again they were all on the inside, I even pointed it out to the woman who owns the shop, and also pointed out why they were there (was from one of those water features, water was splashing gently onto small rocks and was then splashing onto the glass)
And you might have had that shop for a week or two, but she dumped you for Simon...who she wanted all the time anyway.

The shop that was Cancer Research is now How Bazaar, the chinese furniture shop....I never used WFP on it while it was Cancer research, and I also explained in my last reply where those spots were....inside not outside.
If the owner asked you about it, it's a shame you didn't take a proper look at the job, you would have seen for yourself.

But even so, all your evidence is yet again anecdotal.
You also mentioned a hotel and a ....was it a burger King?
I've looked at many Macdonalds and other fast food places, and no end of other shops or offices, and time and again I've seen awful window cleaning standards, and always done Trad.
Poor squeegee work, frames and sills not done, no detailing.

This doesn't make Trad window cleaning a crap method of cleaning windows does it?
It means the person doing the work has very poor standards.

It ain't the tools being used.

And as for me being better than that...I am doing a better overall job than I've ever done before, the reason being that WFP can do a far deeper and more thorough clean, and THAT is an indisputable fact.
You can get into every nook and crannie of a window and frame, you can flush out muck from areas you can't get to by hand.

Some windows I still have to do trad because they are unsuitable for WFP, the glass is as clean as I can get them, but all the time I know that if these windows were in better condition, I'd do a better job with WFP...Even if, as Dai said, a few spots are left now and again.

And those two panes of glass above that door??
They have told you to leave them Roger...but there is no way I could follow that instruction myself, I just couldn't NOT clean them, it is right above the only entrance, it makes the job you do look bad.
Even I don't need a ladder to reach those 2 little panes, and you are taller than me.
that dirt on the bottom edge really draws the eye, you leave everything else lovely and clean looking, but you leave that one area dirty, for 20 seconds work it isn't worth it, and considering how much you get for that job it always surprises me that you leave it.

Sorry Rugby dude!
On my first reply I started out only replying to your original question, then went to post and saw that Squeaky just had to reply and turn it into the usual debate...something he always moans about on other threads.

Ian
Ian. ISM CLEANING SERVICES

Sir Squeaky

  • Posts: 8341
Re: lost customers to wfp
« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2006, 08:08:55 am »
On my first reply I started out only replying to your original question, then went to post and saw that Squeaky just had to reply and turn it into the usual debate...something he always moans about on other threads.
What a change for you to blame me Ian.
It had already become that before I said anything. ::)

DASERVICES

Re: lost customers to wfp
« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2006, 09:52:15 am »

  Had this problem with one window when after cleaning it with WFP it would
  steam up. Told the customer it was do to a crack in his seal as the
  condensation was in between the pains.

  He had a ten year guarantee which was due to run out, called out the
  window company and they agreed the seal had gone and replaced his
  window.

  Thank me for WFP finding the problem. ;D

   Duff windows WFP will always find the problem. ;D. These we then pass onto
   to the likes of Squeeky ;D

  Doug