[Dusty]

I’ve got a restaurant kitchen floor to deep clean for a new customer that could possibly lead to a few dozen others in the same chain so I don’t mind forking out on hiring the very best equipment to get it right.

At present I am told the head chief mops it with D3 and then dry mops it again, which sort of does the job, but becomes slippery very quickly soon after.  Even though it is of the expensive none slip vinyl or linoleum  variety (I am finding out exactly what make/type shortly)  It’s only been put down a year after a staff member had a bad accident on the old tile floor. The new floor that I will be cleaning has a sand paper like finish when new.

I have sold them the idea that I can do a much better job picking up all residues within the grain once every 2/3 months…so I want to give them their moneys worth, as it could be the break I’ve been waiting for.

What would be the best way of doing this job?…would a vapour-steam vac get best results or am I best getting down on my knees with a scrubbing brush and just arriving with some sort of machine just for show, as I am doing it over night from when they all leave.

I’ve no experience of kitchen cleaning so all comments/advice welcome

[Musicman]

Hi Dusty, this sounds like 'altro' flooring and the best way of cleaning this type of floor is with a contra-rotating brush machine.

Rotowash are the market leaders, with Duplex, Truvox, Karcher and Nilfisk all producing similar machines. Duplex do a model with an optional steam kit which would provide an added benefit.

As far as chemicals are concerned Ankem have a product called Champion which is excellent on altro, or you could try the micro-splitter 'Dynax' - again a superb product.

With this combination you should be able to do the floor in under an hour so I would suggest that possibly a monthly clean would help both yourself and your client.

Hope this helps

Musicman

[Dusty]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaar you mean one of these...


http://www.rotowash.com/

cheers might be back with more questions

[Dusty]

Which do you think will give the best clean on a greasy altro kitchen floor...

The Rotowash with Champion or the Duplex with steam or can I use steam with the chemicals you suggested.

I want an end result worth writing home about... If possible

[Musicman]

Hi Dusty - yes I do mean one of those. Nice to know you can use a search engine  

Both machines have their own benefits but I would not tackle a greasy kitchen floor with steam alone.

The Rotowash, being the most expensive but probably the most durable is an excellent machine - but cannot get right up to the edge. The Duplex will go right up to the edge.

We clean alot of altro flooring using a Rotowash. I suggest you use a degreaser such as Champion or Dynax, allow dwell time giving the chemical a chance to work on the grease and then start machining the floor - with the dirty water tray removed. This allows you to agitate the surface without drying it. Work the floor north to south, then east to west several times over and then put the tray back in place making further passes to remove the slurry.

You may then want to repeat the process using clean water as a final rinse. The whole process is very similar to carpet cleaning.

If you look on the Used Equipment section on this forum there is a Rotowash R3 for sale at a snip at £350!

Without knowing the size of the kitchen it is difficult to comment but I would guess that the R3 would be sufficient.

This is premium rate stuff and if I was doing this overnight I would be looking to charge around £100 per hour.

Good luck.

Musicman

[Stu]

Vileda also do a "safety floor" pad which is silver in colour. I've had good results using these to clean Altro with a standard rotary machine and a wet vac to pick up the residue

Reading CHT last month I beleive Arrow chemicals have a new safety floor detergent out..

[Dusty]

Thanks chaps

I'll certainly follow that method Musicman and thanks for all your help

cheers

[Fox]

Hi

Think the advice you have been given is great but if it is the only invite you have so far to deep clean this kitchen floor I wouldn't buy specialised eqipment.

Altro flooring is a pig of a floor to clean - may sound strange but a good srubber dryer detergent laid neat on the floor and left for 10 mins will cut through most of it.  Use a deck scrubber to agitate (unless ofcourse you have got machinery - however in kitchens these won't get where you want them!).

Mop off and agitate again with deck scrubber any detergent left on floor - walk away for another ten then rinse thoroughly.

You will find that you have left behind 'patches' this can't be helped - it is difficult when floor is flooded to know where you have been - concentrate on these areas now and finish with good rinse and mop.

Like I said doesn't replace good equipment but put in the elbow grease and works wonders.  Charges - charge for the job - how long do you think it is going to take? How many people are you going to need? Bear in mind it is night work - what are you going to pay?  Think of the costs you have incurred to organise and set up plus chemicals but also think that you are going to learn and poss get more business!

I reckon  being a kitchen it's not going to be more than two of you doing things manually for more than four hours.  I'd quote something like £280 many would say this is cheap but when recommendation is at stake the first job is premium and anyway I reckon that's average profit.

Let us know how you go.

Fox  
PS:  If floor is slippery after cleaning either his staff are dropping oil everywhere or - (more likely) he is using too much chemical and not rinsing properly! (don't tell them that though just say you could clean it better on a regular basis because you have the specific training!)

[Dusty]

Hi fox

I don't mind buying a second hand machine with good brushes for £350 if it will do a better job?...and I can use it in my marketing, aswell as on the job.

After listening to all the salesman’s blurb at Rotowash, Duplex and Nilfisk yesterday and this a.m, I’m wondering which machine is the best for my task...shall we have a pole...and include a “good mopping technique” so we get the best consensus.

How do you lot rate Altro44 (made by Altro) against Champion or Dynax?...I have asked for samples but being chemicals they can’t send them through the post

There are two of us going to do this job and £300 is what they are willing to pay and as I said before if I do a good job the manager at this one will definitely recommend me to his piers in the chain...and has already said he will implement an assessment programme that my lead to us going in every 6 weeks instead of every 3 months, But he needs to put something down on paper to justify it to head office before he can pass me on to their other branches.

I'd also like to know about how to do a yearly duckting clean as he has agreed to me taking that on if I can get trained or at least know what I am doing as they are being charged top dollar by the people who fitted it and he knows they are only their 4 hours.

One of the reps I spoke to this a.m said that their was some stuff on the market that you just sprayed on/through the duckting and it just dissolved the grease into water and when you put the worm air through the fans it just dried it to nothing...so has anyone had any experience with duckting (I haven’t got to do the canopies) and do they think this method will be good enough for environmental health standards...as at a grand a night I would like to get a piece of the pie.

Sorry to keep on but with no experience in the cleaning game I need to acquire as much knowledge as I can get.

[Stu]

I do the training for a large franchise firm that deals with Kitchen Cleaning and duct cleaning. I don't train in duct cleaning but from what the guys I have trained in the general kitchen cleaning have said it sounds like the days of victorian chimney sweeps. Someone has to crawl in as far as they can and scrape/scrub to get them clean. They've never mentioned any miracle chemical, but then again if it costs money I don't think this company would use it

Stu

[Fox]

Sorry I know very little about duct cleaning!  

Saw your poll and to be honest for a kitchen clean (so many nooks crannies and tight spaces) you would be better off doing it manual.  The only machinery that I might take to a job like this is a premiere scrubber called dragonfly.  Lovely litttle machine that can get into difficult spaces but understand that the mop up is manual.  Also great for toilet floors as gets into the cubicles nice and easy.

Don't go spending money on machines just yet (even if you think £350.00 is reasonable that's money you can keep)  wait unitl you know your industry a bit more and know what kind of jobs you will be doing.

Like I said before I know nothing about duct cleaning but I do know that it is a specialised area and checked thoroughly by EH so unless you are prepared to get trained I wouldn't even go there! (Just my opinion - know it looks easy and many may think they can earn a fast buck or two but if you want to be known as a professional then do things properly)

Fox

[KP]

Some very sound advise from Fox.
I would not buy any equipment yet for just one job even if the manager is a sound guy and may help you to get more work. Quote the job as if it is the only one you will get and the only time you will clean it. Once you have worked that mirracle for them you will know exactly what is involved with the job and what machinery you require if any. (you will then have a margin to move in if necessary).Then sit down and work out a more competative price for a 3 monthly / monthly job explaining that the savings are in the frequency of the job and the equipment hire and chemical purchase become cheaper.
I may be a bit sinicle but i never take any bodys word about extra work because inveriably its not their decission about other jobs and sites, but dont they look good going to their boss saying i got this done and it only cost us this.
There is nothing wrong with a bit of good old fashion elbow grease correctly applied chemical and complete removal by wet vac, mopping only spreads grime around and will only remove 40% if the water is kept clean, however there is nothing wrong with a final mop of clean water to remove any marks after vacuming.
Duct cleaning is not difficult in most instances but is harder to write about here without seeing pictures to understand the job involved. Just remember any job can be done you just need a level headed approach and ask if you dont know. Exactly what you have done so far.
I hope you get the job
Ken

[Dusty]

thanks for your reply stu....Do you know of any training centres near Chesterfield/Sheffield/Nottingham/Derby area?

Fox...I take on board what you are saying about not spending money on machinery I may not need, but I can't really turn up and do it by hand on the first visit incase the manager hangs around to watch us start work, as I would if I was employing new people.  

I have been awarded a grant by Business-Link specifically for equipment that I will have to spend, so the right equipment would be a good investment for me.

So from what you are saying, the Dragonfly would be the best option, but life's never simple as Premier only do the grey pad for safety flooring in 15inch upwards and is not available in 11inch Dragonfly size, unless I want to cut it down to size myself.

I thought their price of £385 was quite good but I got them down to £299.03 which I reckon is a good deal for a new machine with such versatility, but I shall still look on ebay for a bargain or ask on here if anyone has a secondhand one for sale.

I think that I have learnt quite alot of good theory from this thread and hope that I can convert it into good practice on the job....i'll keep you posted

[Dusty]

Hallo Ken,

I may get a wet vac as I need it for my Pressure washing services. I may also be getting a vapour-steam-vac for another service I am offering, would that be a good combination with the Dragonfly, or dragonfly and the secondhand Rotowash scrubber dryer?

I do trust this manager implicitley as he is my brother-in-law, and manages the flagship restaurant of the group and he advises the operations manager at H/O on issues such as this. so sorry if I may Sound a lttle over optimistic.

Having said that, I still wouldn't want him to think that I was not giving him the best possible job for his money by turning up with a mop and bucket, and would like to earn his recommendation on merit.

[Stu]

We run our Cleaning Food Premises course over 4 days (or so) in college and you get a basic carpet cleaning course thrown in (this is in Accrington, Lancs)

On another note a 13" Grey altro pad landed on my desk this morning. Vileda are now making them smaller for use with the new karcher range of rotaries (which I can highly recommend!)

An alternative to the premier dragon fly is the Victor Sprite 12" machine, this folds down and fits in the boot of my peugeot 106 nicely so wouldn't take up a lot of space in a van. I picked up one of these 2nd hand recently for just over £100

Stu

[Fox]

Yep agree - I like the victor machines too and they are cheaper than the premiere, although I haven't used the sprite, I have used the Wolf 400 - great for dry foam carpet cleaning but can be tough on the arms in big areas!

Maybe I'm just a wimp!  

[Dusty]

Would you recommend a nearly new Victor Sprite 400 with 15 inch pad size for £200 or will it be too big?

Roughly how long do pads last?...and are the pads universal with other machines?

Stu how much is that course and can you paste a link to the details.

[Fox]

Hi Dusty

Yet again got to say don't need machinery to begin even if you want make a good impression, they will look at the floor before hand and then again after - does it really matter with what or how you do it?

It is you that will make the impression not any machines that you take along.

Having said that if you are set on buying something and it is going to specifically be used for kitchen cleaning then yes 15" may be too big - however good price so may want to snap it up anyway for other jobs - just make sure it is checked out first.

As for pads - yes all pads universal (just remember to order the right size!)  These can be washed in your domestic machine and used again and again.  It is difficult to tell you the amount of usage as each time it is used it will involve a different amount of soilage or floor area.  You should be able to judge just by looking at and feeling the pad (eg: thickness, couresness etc).

Hope this has been of some help

Fox

[Dusty]

I have found everybodies imput most helpful and shall combine Deck scrubber and scrubber/dryer...and get a rotary machine for other services anyway?

I'll continue to use this excellant resource provided by Express Cleaning in the near future as I try and grow my business model.

I just found this...

20221 Safety Cleaning Card

http://www.altro.co.uk/uk/technical/cm/safetycleaningcard.PDF

Covers all points of view

Ps

How do I clean carpets with a pad scrubber or is a Scrubber/dryer better?...lol

[nick.solution]

Hi Dusty

happy to send some No8 Dynax, have sent you PM application through duplex/rotawash ideal. non detergent will not leave slippery residue

Best regards Nick

[Dusty]

Cheers Nick,

I have saved your details.

[Steve_Carpenter]

Hi Dusty,

One Step ‘Dynax’ is excellent for removing heavy build up on non-slip safety floors including food based soiling. I mix it with hot water at 1:20-1:40 and apply it via a pressure sprayer, but it can be mopped on or used in an auto scrubber. Theirs no dwell time with this product and it also removes detergent based residues from previous cleans.

Simply agitate either by hand with deck scrubbers or with low speed rotary fitted with brush or pad. Cylindrical brush machine such as the Duplex is excellent on this type of flooring.  It can also be used safely with steam cleaning equipment.

One Step ‘Dynax’ as recommended by Musicman is available from Amtech UK, Tel: 0845 130 4755

Also a company in Nottingham are having a sale and its available for £52.00 plus VAT per 4 x 5 litres. Give John a call on Tel: 01159932602

Excellent value as it can be diluted up to 1:400.

Regards

Steve

[Stu]

I've just had a cohort of students in today on the Kitchen Cleaning course we run.

We scrubbed the Altro flooring with Solution's Dynax No8 using a rotary with a vileda silver floor pad. and then vacuumed up the water.

The results were astounding with little effort and the water coming from the floor was BLACK. The interesting and bizarre thing was the dirt wwent on to then separate from the water and lie in pools within the water. I presume this is the action of the Microsplitting chemical but it worked a treat.

I just thought i'd share this with you

regards

Stu