[Helen]

Thats what i thought! 

It's easy to sit on the outside and snipe. If you care that much about the industry get seriously involved in either APWC or FWC.

Why can't we have this why can't we have that what are you going to do about this what are you going to do about that blah blah blah

[www.crawleycarpetc]

Sorry Helen,

My comment was not a snipe, i agree with what lionheart was saying and for me all these different federations are a waste of time. Where do they get the joining fees from? Oh so  and so charge £200 so we will charge £150!? Sorry but i think unless you have the training etc that lionheart was talking about then in my opinion its a sham.

Regards Rob.

[matt]

but they need fee's to look after the members interests

[www.crawleycarpetc]

Which are?

[Moderator David@stives]

MEMBER BENEFITS

 

1) Government Lobbying on behalf of the industry

2) Member list available to the general public via website members search

3) Member list available to all council offices

4) Member list available to all commercial premises

5) Use of Association Logo on van’s, letter heads etc

6) Free APWC Logo Supplied for Van (235mm x 100mm)

7) Help on obtaining the correct Insurance

8 ) Help on preparing method statements and risk assessments.

9) Help on preparing Health and Safety policies

10) Help on marketing your business

11) Up to date information relating to H&S and other important industry matters

12) Networking via website and future local meetings

13) Conferences and seminars with guest appearances

14) 30% off Sign Writing                                                             

15) Photographic ID Card   (Plastic Credit Card Style)                                                       

16) Bi Monthly News Letter

17) Association marketing to create public awareness

18) Members only section on APWC Website (downloads will be available H&S info etc)

19) Free Website Hosting

20) Free Domain Name   www.yourcomapany.co.uk   (subject to availability)

21) 5 Email Addresses (Pop3)

 

BENEFITS CURRENTLY UNDER NEGOTIATION

Highly competitive Liability Insurances                               

Free 24 hour legal advice help line                                     

Discounts from suppliers                                                       

Monthly Live Advice Sessions within the members only section of the website.

[Helen]

As I understand it  the apwc launches its new website soon, then prospective members will understand the apwc better and people who wish to employ members will be able to employ the type of window cleaner they require. I carnt say anymore than that at the moment. But the APWC has taken 12 months to set up and I believe it is going to be worth it.

[www.crawleycarpetc]

Dave

The fundamentals look good but do you not take on board what lionheart was saying?

What is your opinion?

Rob

[Pj]

Dave

The fundamentals look good but do you not take on board what lionheart was saying?

What is your opinion?

Rob

Don't hustle Dave.  He has presented the benefits, if they're not enough, get on board and help him get some more.  it's only just begun, and it's to help people get started, he's worked hard to get this far.

Pj

[www.crawleycarpetc]

PJ,

Please dont get me wrong im just asking the questions that i feel need to be asked, certainly not trying to give anyone a hard time!

 Hopefully most people on here are friends and if you cant thrash these things out here how are you going to " lobby a Government " etc etc

[Moderator David@stives]

Lionheart , RCS etc


Since the APWC announced it was launching, we had nothing but complaints from window cleaners about supplying 3 references. Yes, it could be possible for references to be falsified; however, someone who does not have an interest in their business is not going to spend out fees to join the APWC or any other organisation. I think the same can be said for insurance.
 
The second stage of the APWC application form gives the prospective member a chance to highlight any training they have had within the industry, which they also have to prove. This is then uploaded to their profile on our database. Prospective clients will be able to request/ search for window cleaners who have certain training/ qualifications.
 
Due to only being a new association, the APWC at this stage cannot offer its members training, even though this will be available one day.
 
As for the cost of joining and what you get, the cost is relatively low and I would class it as an investment. Unlike the other mentioned organisation, the APWC will have a fully searchable database for members of the public and commercial clients. One new client could cover your membership fees for a whole year. The APWC will also be promoting itself in all sectors in order to promote its members.
 
I think it is also important to remember, there is a great deal of administrative duties involved in the running of any association and in addition, because the APWC is limited by guarantee to protect its members. There is slightly more cost involved in the running. Offering a reduced fee would result in reduced benefits and also a poor quality of representation. To date, none of the committee members have been reimbursed for any expenses for taking time off work and travelling to meetings and there are no plans in the foreseeable future for this to happen. We  are a group of professional window cleaners who are willing to donate our time and money to help other window cleaners better themselves and to help them show there professionalism.

Just remember this is your association and anyone can get involved, It is not a "closed shop" and anyone can apply to become a committee member and help run the association.

Dave
 
I hope this covers the most of your questions.

[www.crawleycarpetc]

Thank you Dave,

I understand a lot more now and am sure others will also benefit from your comments. Good Luck.

Rob.

[Trevor Knight]

Also just noticed that there is nothing on the website that tells the public why they should employ someone carrying a APWC card as opposed to someone without.

In three years I have never been asked by anyone, commercial or domestic for my FWC membership card and we do a lot of high profile customers including local and regional councils, NHS, who are all normally s**t hot on qualifying credibility

Exactly the Association's point! In all the years the Fed has been established, still the local government and councils are unaware of using registered members. Why? Because no one has represented the Industry in such a way that everyone will know about it.

I believe that the association will become the Industry leader, it will take window cleaning to a level of awareness that has never been achieved. Like with Corgi, there will come a time, and not in the too distant future, when people will start to recognise the benefits of using "approved" contractors and the way they will be "approved" is through the Association.

All of this takes time and money to organise and unfortunately cannot be acheived overnight. However, with the support of window cleaners who understand what the Association is about I am sure that the benefits to all concerned will be second to none!

[Ian Rochester]

What you are saying is all well and good, however the APWC and the FWC seem solely concerned with member benefits.

If I was a punter I would want to know what benefits I would get be employing an APWC or FWC member, at present I can see no benefit to the domestic customer.  The only thing the customer will see is an extra cost compared to their local cleaner, who has done a decent job for years!

Yes the commercial customer will recognise that they are covered in case of damage, but what else?  Nothing, because nothing else is asked for.

The only nationally recognised trade associations are CORGI for gas fitters and IEEE for electricians, as far as I am aware there is nothing nationally recognisable for most other trades, ie joiners, plasterers, roofers, carpet cleaners, general cleaners, window cleaners, etc, etc and personally I doubt there ever will be. 

Why? because what we do does not normally endanger the customers life, unlike working with gas or electric.

[Trevor Knight]

Hi Lionheart,

A fair point and one to take on board.

Yes the APWC is concerned about member benefits as one purpose of the association is to help window cleaners and advise in areas they need help with. Also, with the weight of membership there will ultimately become buying power and discount negotiations with suppliers/insurers etc.. that will be passed down the line. This is also a way of the member recovering the membership fee.

As for what the customer will benefit by using the APWC. This is exactly an area the association is keen to develop. One of the key factors is at present NO customer, either commercial or domestic, really has any guideline to follow regarding how to find a suitable window cleaner. Commercial are slightly ahead of the game but the domestic market is so far behind. When was the last time a customer asked to see your insurance before you got the job? Lets face it, the only time it really matters is when something goes wrong and then the culprit dissapears, the customer is left high and dry and another blow to the customers perception of a window cleaner.

One of the reasons behind the APWC is to become a household name, to give the customer reassurance that the person they are employing is reputable, by that I mean not a dole dodger etc... That the member has provided references, Insurance, lists any qualifications etc...

I think the best thing is to see what ground the APWC covers, what in roads they make and how it all develops. I personally believe this will be the start of something that will actually truely focus on taking window cleaning foward as a profession, increase knowledge to both customers and members, remove the "stigma" that window cleaners are just making money for a pint or dole dodgers.

Best wishes,

Trev

[Terry_Burrows]

all the years I have been in I have found no one cares that much if you belong to any thing they just want a good job done,any fed who ever they are have a very long road in front of them,I will be long dead before wc will be regonized as a trade,bearing in mind  nat fed has been going for some 50 odd years : there is a message in there some where this person said to me, you are only a window cleaner,when I finished with them they wished they never opened they big mouth how dare any one say to any one,you are only this or that thats the stigma we have sadly..

[Trevor Knight]

Totally agree Terry,

The fact that the FED has been going 50 years and made little if any progress just about says it all, although I think they are focused on selling equipment, sickness benefit etc....

I believe the APWC to be different and to walk that long road step by step.

As for someone saying "you're just a window cleaner" I would have replied and your just a "wa**er"

[Terry_Burrows]

 ;Dyes Trev that and loads more