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Stoots

  • Posts: 6413
Are we about to be regulated
« on: December 18, 2025, 02:39:38 pm »
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2025-12-17/debates/D055A2C9-7E02-4741-A42E-962298B8AA16/WindowCleaningIndustryWorkplaceSafety

Wonder if we are about to be forced to buy compliant (no doubt more expensive) poles a that weigh a tonne

or made to complete a safety/training course ...

Scottish Cleaning Service

  • Posts: 868
Re: Are we about to be regulated
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2025, 02:44:40 pm »
We already need a licence up here anyway. Probably to do with training prisoners to become window cleaners in jail. One of them will be trying to sue the Gov for falling off a ladder. 

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 26980
Re: Are we about to be regulated
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2025, 03:35:32 pm »
https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2025-12-17/debates/D055A2C9-7E02-4741-A42E-962298B8AA16/WindowCleaningIndustryWorkplaceSafety

Wonder if we are about to be forced to buy compliant (no doubt more expensive) poles a that weigh a tonne

or made to complete a safety/training course ...

No we are not bgoing to be forced to buy compliant poles. The current guidance (pun attended) is to not put anything within 3 metres of a 33KV line. Electricity of that level can jump gaps.

Awareness and risk assessment are key.

If a mandatory training course came in (I don't see that either as mandatory training courses for ladders aren't a thing) then so be it.

One death or injury per year is too much. But it is incredibly low compared with ladders.
It's a game of three halves!

dazmond

  • Posts: 24619
Re: Are we about to be regulated
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2025, 04:33:56 pm »
The scary thing is the poor window cleaner that got electricuted didn't even touch the cable with his pole...... :o
price higher/work harder!

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 26980
Re: Are we about to be regulated
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2025, 11:02:21 pm »
The scary thing is the poor window cleaner that got electricuted didn't even touch the cable with his pole...... :o

Because 33kv can jump. Especially in misty conditions.
It's a game of three halves!

Spruce

  • Posts: 8711
Re: Are we about to be regulated
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 02:48:24 am »
We have 2 reported deaths and one serious injury according to the report.

 Unfortunately, sad as they are, we aren't told what the circumstances are around the two window cleaners who died.   If it's one I remember reading about, he was using an aluminium pole around electric cables.

There was a thread on one of the forums recently regarding electric cables and window cleaners. There where many posters who didn't know the difference between telephone cables and electricity supply cables. There's part of the problem; a lack of knowledge.

However, while we need to prevent all injuries and deaths, I'm sure that many can be avoided with a properly self imposed risk and method statement as Malc has stated.  Who does that?

Obviously the injured window cleaner can't work again as a window cleaner, but I remember both him and his dad were going to focus on awareness and safety regarding pole manufacture.

Pushing stuff through parliament at that level is just going to make it more difficult for manufacturers and it's window cleaners who will be affected in the end.

Gardiner's insulate the base pole section against electrical shock. If they, and others, are legislated to give the shock protection to the second pole that fits into the base pole, what happens when that fibreglass layer wears off/or wears thin and the carbon shows through?  We experienced that wear pattern with the clx range.

I know this sounds harsh, but people who wave a pole around bare supply lines only have themselves to blame when accidents happen imho.

We have a few old houses with bare supply cables. I clean the fronts of those houses (not my lad) and go through a mental action plan before I start cleaning the upstairs bedroom windows every time we clean them.

Unfortunately there's seems to be this two fold attitude among window cleaners in our area of how much money do I earn cleaning this house and how quickly can I do it. 'Time is money' can mean that basic safety procedures are overlooked.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

windowswashed

  • Posts: 2653
Re: Are we about to be regulated
« Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 10:26:15 am »
Makes more sense to use Kevlar being lighter than fibre glass as insulated sections. I have a No.6 section made completely of Kevlar and weighs next to nothing in comparison to carbon pole extensions.

Every window cleaner is suppose to do a risk assessment for every individual job and to be aware of the dangers around. Racing around like an idiot putting profit before safety is a sure way of expecting accidents to happen through incompetence.

Spruce

  • Posts: 8711
Re: Are we about to be regulated
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 10:41:36 am »
Makes more sense to use Kevlar being lighter than fibre glass as insulated sections. I have a No.6 section made completely of Kevlar and weighs next to nothing in comparison to carbon pole extensions.

Every window cleaner is suppose to do a risk assessment for every individual job and to be aware of the dangers around. Racing around like an idiot putting profit before safety is a sure way of expecting accidents to happen through incompetence.

100% agreed.

Didn't know about the insulation properties of Kevlar. Thanks
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

Stoots

  • Posts: 6413
Re: Are we about to be regulated
« Reply #8 on: Today at 10:25:28 am »
I thought of this because the other day i cleaned on a new build estate, the house i was about to clean had overhead power cables not far away. I mean proper power cables on pylons, they were clearly insulated and i  estimated the top of my pole was maybe  10m away at most. It was an overcast damp day and i just decided to not do them, i had cleaned that house 3 times before and never really noticed them but for some reason the other day i did and they made me nervous enough to just leave it.

I think if theres to be any education it should be on how to spot a live cable because apart from the obvious ones sometimes its a guess, i clean near a few thin cables that ive always assumed are telephone wires and not dangerous but in reality i dont know for sure .

Spruce

  • Posts: 8711
Re: Are we about to be regulated
« Reply #9 on: Today at 12:33:47 pm »
I thought of this because the other day i cleaned on a new build estate, the house i was about to clean had overhead power cables not far away. I mean proper power cables on pylons, they were clearly insulated and i  estimated the top of my pole was maybe  10m away at most. It was an overcast damp day and i just decided to not do them, i had cleaned that house 3 times before and never really noticed them but for some reason the other day i did and they made me nervous enough to just leave it.

I think if theres to be any education it should be on how to spot a live cable because apart from the obvious ones sometimes its a guess, i clean near a few thin cables that ive always assumed are telephone wires and not dangerous but in reality i dont know for sure .

Always best to act on the side of caution.

If there are 3 supply cables then usually the bottom cable is earth and the others are positive and negative. They will be normal household supply voltage, but still to be very weary of.
At one time we had overhead powerlines supplying an area with high voltage wiring. The electricity board replaced that section we were concerned cleaning around with abc cables which are twisted together.
Any cable connected to a telephone pole isn't an issue but still need to be treated with respect. I'm not sure what's happening now, but suddenly there are cables being added to telephone poles for broad band. I don't know if the old cables will be removed over time. We have a business customer who now has two new cables running right in front of an upstairs window we clean.
Success is 1% inspiration, 98% perspiration and 2% attention to detail!

The older I get, the better I was ;)

DazzaP

  • Posts: 168
Re: Are we about to be regulated
« Reply #10 on: Today at 02:34:01 pm »
Safe minimum distances as recommended by Health and Safety via there website are

Low Voltage upto 1kV(1000V) is 1m -  typically from wooden poles upto houses along streets can also be from telecom poles too.

11kV -33kV is 3m - normally bigger poles, have 3 cables

132kV is 6m -  can be wood more likely smaller pylons

275-400kV is 7m - bigger pylons

The poles that are insulated are rated upto 1000v typically.

I've tried before to upload photos of different types of structures etc to no avail and regionally they can be so different.

Generally what we would come across, would be supply to houses. Typically but not definite would  be 2 bare wires at 230v or 4 bare wires 415v.  Some supplies are insulated 230v/415v and are twisted so would look like a thicker cable.

Though the base pole is insulated, it could be a good idea if the top pole was insulated too.

Hope this helps a bit

Splash and dash

  • Posts: 447
Re: Are we about to be regulated
« Reply #11 on: Today at 05:36:54 pm »
Safe minimum distances as recommended by Health and Safety via there website are

Low Voltage upto 1kV(1000V) is 1m -  typically from wooden poles upto houses along streets can also be from telecom poles too.

11kV -33kV is 3m - normally bigger poles, have 3 cables

132kV is 6m -  can be wood more likely smaller pylons

275-400kV is 7m - bigger pylons

The poles that are insulated are rated upto 1000v typically.

I've tried before to upload photos of different types of structures etc to no avail and regionally they can be so different.

Generally what we would come across, would be supply to houses. Typically but not definite would  be 2 bare wires at 230v or 4 bare wires 415v.  Some supplies are insulated 230v/415v and are twisted so would look like a thicker cable.

Though the base pole is insulated, it could be a good idea if the top pole was insulated too.

Hope this helps a bit

The only problem with insulated poles is the muinit you get water running down the pole and it’s wet you will still get a shock , it’s virtually impossible to guarantee any pole will not conduct electricity regardless of what it’s made of .