[Pete Thompson]

Well I’ve reached a point where I just have too much work to do (actually I reached that point about a year ago) and I’m finding that I’m ending up late with nearly everything.

Now I’m not complaining, I know this is a nice problem to have, and it’s been years of work getting here. I put prices up by about 5% 2 months ago (I increase every other year) to try to trim things a bit, but no. Everyone was still happy, so now I still have too much work but slightly more money.

I intend to take on at least one employee before the end of the year, so I’m keen to tidy things up in advance of that.

Like most windows cleaners I started out offering mainly a monthly service, with 2 or 3 monthly as options. That worked fine for a long time, but as I’ve grown I now understand the limitations and annoyances of this.

For a start, there are not the same number of weeks in every month, so straight away that causes a problem as you get busier. (How do you fit your 22 days of work into only 20 days for February?).

Some months have 5 weekends some have 4. Etc etc etc.

Anyway, as well as the difficulties in scheduling, the inevitable result is that I’m late all the time these days with my monthly customers and usually my 2-monthlies as well. None of these customers are complaining, I sometimes wonder if they even notice, but having basically half of my rounds overdue at any given time is just so annoying to me.

So, I’ve decided to do what a lot on here have advocated in the past, and move to a 6-weekly or 12-weekly service only.

My ‘monthly’ (70% of my work) customers are basically getting a 6-weekly service anyway, so I’m planning on notifying them in a low-key way by just having a little box of text on my ‘windows cleaned today cards’ saying something to the effect of “we’re phasing in a 6-weekly clean service to replace our monthly service. If you have any questions please contact us” and that’s it. I’m not expecting any reaction, so not worried about that.

But my 2-monthlies will have to make a choice. Either get cleaned 2 and a half weeks early (6-weekly) or 3 and a half weeks late.(12-weekly)

I’m a bit stuck about this, has anyone tackled this before? I’m loathed to ask them let me know, because I don’t want to bother them like that, many will simply forget/not care. Plus, I’d rather nudge them into 6-weekly.

The only solution I can really think of is to say something like this:
“We’re phasing in a 6 or 12 weekly service to replace our 1,2 or 3 monthly services.

Please feel free to email us with what your preference would be (6 weekly or 12 weekly)

If we don’t hear from you by the swap over date (31st October) we will swap you to a 6-weekly service by default. You may, of course, change to 12-weekly at any time. Just let us know”

I *think* that would be ok, but not sure if that would annoy some people?

Has anyone been through a similar swap over, and if so, I’m particularly interested to know what proportion of 2-monthlies wanted 6 weekly as opposed to 12 weekly?

Thanks in advance!

[Splash & dash]

I understand exactly what you are saying , I had the same situation a couple of years ago , I decided to stick with the 4/8 weekly and get more staff . But in your situation why complicate things by offering 6/12 weekly why not just offer 6 weekly surely that would be the easiest option for you , then increase the 4 weekly price to allow for a longer  clean period

[anderclean]

i'm doing exactly the same thing Pete
we built up originally offering 4, 6 and 8 weekly cleans and a few at 12
worked great in the early years - now, completely unviable, so we're puting everyone to 6 weeks. with a few at 12
so far - very, very little resistance
flipped about 70 custies so far, nearly all 8 to 6 weeks, maybe 4 or 5 going 12 weeks (for a premium)

only 3 or 4 hundred to go

ya live n learn   

[Simon Trapani]

We offer 6 & 12 weekly.

Your note to the 12 weekly ones sounds fine. I wouldn’t worry about them too much. Just remember your 6 weekly’s are your bread butter. They’re your priority. Don’t bend for the 12 weekly’s. I don’t find them to be great customers at all.

[Splash & dash]

We offer 6 & 12 weekly.

Your note to the 12 weekly ones sounds fine. I wouldn’t worry about them too much. Just remember your 6 weekly’s are your bread butter. They’re your priority. Don’t bend for the 12 weekly’s. I don’t find them to be great customers at all.

I don’t think 12 weekly cleans is viable that’s only a maximum of 4 cleans per  year not worth the hassle and would be absolutely filthy down hear 99% of our customers ask for and want 4 weekly , I think this is an area thing

[Smudger]

I'm the sane as splash, just get more staff, to help future proof I actively encourage 8 weekly over 4 as the pay is better 

if I was in your position and your consistently late I wouldn't even inform the monthly ones - just start sticking a 6 way date on the clean cards - only address it if queried by the customer - 8 weekly I would probably leave them a note giving them a choice

I have always run 4 or 8  weeks - and the next clean is always 4 or 8 weeks later so if cleaned on a Monday it will be a Monday 4 or 8 weeks later - regardless of the 'month' - I get 13 cleans a year for the 4 week cleans

Darran

[Pete Thompson]

But in your situation why complicate things by offering 6/12 weekly why not just offer 6 weekly surely that would be the easiest option for you , then increase the 4 weekly price to allow for a longer  clean period

Good point, I forgot to mention I have a substantial number of 3-monthlies and even 6-monthlies as well (many of these are commercial).  I'll obviously switch these to 12-weekly as its only a week's difference, I'm not even planning on telling them.
I've just done a tally up, this is how my work is made up.  (% refers to amount of money, not 'number of customers)

Frequency   % by annual revenue
Monthly   67.0%
2-Monthly   16.3%
3-Monthly   13.7%
6-Monthly   2.8%
12-Monthly   0.3%

I plan to 'balance' the 12-weeklys so that about half of them are due each 6-weekly cycle.

I don’t think 12 weekly cleans is viable that’s only a maximum of 4 cleans per  year not worth the hassle and would be absolutely filthy down hear 99% of our customers ask for and want 4 weekly , I think this is an area thing

It's really common in this area, especially for larger houses (>£50) and commercial.  I charge a premium for this (its usually 2x a monthly cost) and people are happy to pay it. I don't find it takes substantially longer to clean than a monthly customer to be honest, but then I live in a rural area.

[hotsteam]

I cannot understand why you say it's better to go to 6 weekly cleans from monthly  !
If you charge £20 a month £20 x 12 = £240 to make the same money you need to charge on 6 weekly £27.71 x 8.66= £240

Would it be better to sell off some work, and stay with monthly or employ more staff  ?

[Pete Thompson]

I cannot understand why you say it's better to go to 6 weekly cleans from monthly  !
If you charge £20 a month £20 x 12 = £240 to make the same money you need to charge on 6 weekly £27.71 x 8.66= £240

Would it be better to sell off some work, and stay with monthly or employ more staff  ?

I understand what you’re saying, but it’s not really about the money, it’s about the scheduling. (I physically can’t do any more work than I am, and I can’t get through it all, so moving my monthlies to 6-weekly will make no difference)

A calendar month is difficult to plan around now that I’m flat out, because they don’t always have the same number of working days. For example, this month we’re in has 22 working days. But October only has 21. Some months only have 20. Those 2 extra days represent about £500-£600 of work that has to be squeezed into fewer days (impossible). I know bank holidays will be a problem, but at least I know for sure that there are always going to be 30 working days in a 6-week cycle.

I tried to go with 4-weekly when I first started, but that was a disaster. Lots of customers were highly resistant to paying twice in the same month, which happens sometimes with 4-weekly. So, 6-weekly seems an obvious solution, which I’m pretty much doing anyway at the moment due to being late.

I do need to take on staff, you’re definitely right about that. I plan to do it before the end of the year. More reason to get the scheduling sorted out properly.

[Don Kee]

I cannot understand why you say it's better to go to 6 weekly cleans from monthly  !
If you charge £20 a month £20 x 12 = £240 to make the same money you need to charge on 6 weekly £27.71 x 8.66= £240

Would it be better to sell off some work, and stay with monthly or employ more staff  ?

Your logic is flawed.

You’re working it out to what each customer pays out per year but if he has enough work for to be full on a 6 weekly quota then he’ll earn the same money (or more if he sticks his prices up)

Doesn’t matter if he cleans Mrs Jones 13 times a year or Mr Smith 8 times a year… £300 a day is £300 a day whether you’re on 4 or 6 weekly (disclaimer, day rate my not be accurate  )

[Perfect Windows]

Well I’ve reached a point where I just have too much work to do (actually I reached that point about a year ago) and I’m finding that I’m ending up late with nearly everything.
...
Has anyone been through a similar swap over, and if so, I’m particularly interested to know what proportion of 2-monthlies wanted 6 weekly as opposed to 12 weekly?

Thanks in advance!

I'm not sure if I've missed it but are you planning on putting up prices when you make the change? If not, it's pointless and you'd be better selling off the excess work than moving people to 6-weekly.

Vin

[NBwcs]

If your going to take on an employee, and at the moment arnt getting much grief for being late then why tell the customers about a change. Its a bit of a one way street, you can easily extend your frequency ie 4 weekly to monthly, monthly to 5/6 weekly but try going the other way ie back from 6 weekly to monthly,youll get loads of grief. Leave it as it is and you keep your options open. I only take on new work as and when someone drops out, (I'm a sole trader and staying that way) and I tell new custys it's monthly but I never get round  on time I'm always a bit late and everyone's fine with it. In the rare event during summer I have a particular good month of rain free weather and get round in less than 5 weeks then I'm still not coming early and everyone's fine. There was an article in a magazine when I started out saying the ideal scenario for a windy is to be "in the zone" which translates to having more work than you can actually do on time so always being slightly late but not taking on so much it gets out of hand
. Sounds like your pretty much still in the zone  especially if taking someone on.  Customers tolerate being late, (within reason), they won't tolerate being early, it's about perception.

[NWH]

If you are going to take someone on I’d stick with it for the time between cleans you already have if he knows what he’s doing you’ll soon bash through it and will need 2 weeks more work soon enough,remember no one is as conscientious as you and some people just keep you because it’s you that’s cleaning them.

[lal]

If you are going to take someone on I’d stick with it for the time between cleans you already have if he knows what he’s doing you’ll soon bash through it and will need 2 weeks more work soon enough,remember no one is as conscientious as you and some people just keep you because it’s you that’s cleaning them.

Welcome back, its been quiet with out you.   

[Mike Burd]

If you are going to take someone on I’d stick with it for the time between cleans you already have if he knows what he’s doing you’ll soon bash through it and will need 2 weeks more work soon enough,remember no one is as conscientious as you and some people just keep you because it’s you that’s cleaning them.

Totally agree. If you take someone on, you’ll immediately be short of work.

[NWH]

Hi Lal,
Yeah 2 people will go through it quickly you’ll wish you hadn’t got rid of work the better scenario would be put prices up if you lose some you lose some,when people see 2 of you and know you’ve employed the increase will be justified by decent people-customers.
People say you can’t do as much with 2 people but you can get through a hell of a lot of work in the same time you did on your own,once you know where you’re going with 2 you are only doing a side and front or a side and back and you thought you were quick before.

[JandS]

Just keep working through the work......my work is monthly but if it takes 6 weeks so be it...never had a complaint about being a bit late.....I have had the odd comment though when I'm bang on time about doing them again so soon.

[dazmond]

If your going to take on an employee, and at the moment arnt getting much grief for being late then why tell the customers about a change. Its a bit of a one way street, you can easily extend your frequency ie 4 weekly to monthly, monthly to 5/6 weekly but try going the other way ie back from 6 weekly to monthly,youll get loads of grief. Leave it as it is and you keep your options open. I only take on new work as and when someone drops out, (I'm a sole trader and staying that way) and I tell new custys it's monthly but I never get round  on time I'm always a bit late and everyone's fine with it. In the rare event during summer I have a particular good month of rain free weather and get round in less than 5 weeks then I'm still not coming early and everyone's fine. There was an article in a magazine when I started out saying the ideal scenario for a windy is to be "in the zone" which translates to having more work than you can actually do on time so always being slightly late but not taking on so much it gets out of hand
. Sounds like your pretty much still in the zone  especially if taking someone on.  Customers tolerate being late, (within reason), they won't tolerate being early, it's about perception.

i get round bang on time whether its 4 or 8 weekly (unless i go on holiday/xmas,etc then i can be a week or 2 late) and i have 341 jobs at present,some of these are fairly large properties too.....and work on average 25 hours a week(including end of day jobs and admin)...

ill never be "full up" with work every day....thank god!

[Pete Thompson]

If you are going to take someone on I’d stick with it for the time between cleans you already have if he knows what he’s doing you’ll soon bash through it and will need 2 weeks more work soon enough,remember no one is as conscientious as you

Totally agree. If you take someone on, you’ll immediately be short of work.

That’s an interesting point, but I’m actually hoping it works out like that. I’m not worried at all about being short of work.

I estimate that even after my 6-12 weekly swap over, I’ll have about enough work for 1 and a half people.

My intention is to train up a worker for a couple of months, then put him/her in their own van. I’ll continue to work on my own for half a week, and I’ll use the other half to drum up more business. (I’ve built up a nice war chest over the Covid lockdown period, so not worried about the cash flow of paying an employee salary while doing this.)

Although I like the idea of working side by side with someone, I know it’s really not efficient. Lots of my work has long drives between jobs (all priced in) and that is not efficient for 2 people.

(I.E. if 2 people clean a house it will take 50% of the time. But if there’s a 30 minute drive to get there, it still takes 30 minutes even with 2 people, so you’ve lost 1/2 of a man-hour).

some people just keep you because it’s you that’s cleaning them.

I’ve worked so hard over the past year to prevent this. I’ve made sure every customer I have is ‘scalable’. There’s no dangerous work that I wouldn’t want an employee doing, there’s no old dears who only want me.

I’ve been pretty ruthless about that, if a job can only be done by me personally, it’s been dropped.

[NWH]

On some work it’s silly quick with 2 people even if there’s a bit of driving between jobs it more than makes up for the travelling.

[Smudger]

Silly quick or not - 30 minute drive for 2 is30 minutes lost ( 1 or 2 cleans ) you can’t recover time

2 on a house should be quicker but they won’t ll not do double the work of one with travelling involved

Darran

[james peters]

Silly quick or not - 30 minute drive for 2 is30 minutes lost ( 1 or 2 cleans ) you can’t recover time

2 on a house should be quicker but they won’t ll not do double the work of one with travelling involved

Darran

agreed. even on compact work
when my daughter works with me the hourly rate goes up by 50%, but then of course I have to pay her.
so whilst I do benefit slightly, It is no where near double.
however it does help get through more work when I am behind or have add ons to do.
the company is also nice 

[NWH]

I would just be reluctant to put any newbie on my work in a van on their own tbh for quiet a while,maybe it’s different if he’s in a van on his own half a mile away doing a group of houses that you can nip to if there’s any problems it’s a difficult one depends what type of work it is.
Some jobs you can take losing but some hurt if you lose em and especially if it’s down to someone not quiet knowing what they are doing due to inexperience.

[Smudger]

cleaning a window is cleaning a window - your very much a control freak Nigel

Darran

[dazmond]

i just dont understand the guys that are always 2 or 3 weeks  late.....theres an extra 2 or 3 weeks of muck on the windows to clean off...you d be better off to sell some work and get round bang on time IMO .....

im a week late at present and some of my 4 weekly work(thats 5 weekly this time)are filthy.......

[NWH]

Makes hardly any difference Daz and you should know that being a hot water user,I did a new job today they hadn’t been cleaned for years probably 5 or 6 took me about 15 minutes longer than it will do from now on and they were covered in brown stubborn spots that are on every window at the moment due to an increase in spiders.
Over the years I found it better to price higher and go longer between cleans you can charge far more because when you clean them they need it,again as you will know Daz longer frequency between cleans makes no difference with hot water.

[NWH]

Not unusual for me to be 6 weeks late on some jobs unless they’ve specified they want it done on time everytime.

[Pete Thompson]

I would just be reluctant to put any newbie on my work in a van on their own tbh for quiet a while,maybe it’s different if he’s in a van on his own half a mile away doing a group of houses that you can nip to if there’s any problems it’s a difficult one depends what type of work it is.
Some jobs you can take losing but some hurt if you lose em and especially if it’s down to someone not quiet knowing what they are doing due to inexperience.

Fair comment, but I’m not sure what problems there would be? I’ll be cleaning the exact properties with my newbie a couple of times, so they’ll know the sequence and the little quirks each one has.

I had my sister-in-law work with me a couple of weeks ago, a complete novice-never cleaned a window ever. By the end of the 2nd day she had it down. I’d have been happy to let her do those customers again on her own. Squeegeeing is a skill. Waterfed pole is just a method, anyone can learn it.

And if it’s not completely perfect, well it’s window cleaning, nobody will die. The worst that can happen is the odd window isn’t quite up to standard, no big deal.

I’m not worried about customers complaining or losing some. For a start, I’ve made plenty of errors over the years, missing windows when my minds wandered, doing the wrong house, billing for houses that weren’t actually done (and vice versa) etc etc. Nobody has ever complained about it. People just don’t care that much.

I think you have to trust people eventually or else you’ll never be able to grow.

And if the worst case scenario happens and I lose some, I don’t care. Customers are easy to replace, and if losing some is the cost of growth then so be it.

Yes losing big ones can leave a bit of a gap to fill, but most of my larger ones (>£50) are commercial anyway, and they NEVER complain.

[Smudger]

I would just be reluctant to put any newbie on my work in a van on their own tbh for quiet a while,maybe it’s different if he’s in a van on his own half a mile away doing a group of houses that you can nip to if there’s any problems it’s a difficult one depends what type of work it is.
Some jobs you can take losing but some hurt if you lose em and especially if it’s down to someone not quiet knowing what they are doing due to inexperience.

Fair comment, but I’m not sure what problems there would be? I’ll be cleaning the exact properties with my newbie a couple of times, so they’ll know the sequence and the little quirks each one has.

I had my sister-in-law work with me a couple of weeks ago, a complete novice-never cleaned a window ever. By the end of the 2nd day she had it down. I’d have been happy to let her do those customers again on her own. Squeegeeing is a skill. Waterfed pole is just a method, anyone can learn it.

And if it’s not completely perfect, well it’s window cleaning, nobody will die. The worst that can happen is the odd window isn’t quite up to standard, no big deal.

I’m not worried about customers complaining or losing some. For a start, I’ve made plenty of errors over the years, missing windows when my minds wandered, doing the wrong house, billing for houses that weren’t actually done (and vice versa) etc etc. Nobody has ever complained about it. People just don’t care that much.. Thats a bit too blazay for me

I think you have to trust people eventually or else you’ll never be able to grow. True but some will never accept this

And if the worst case scenario happens and I lose some, I don’t care. Customers are easy to replace, and if losing some is the cost of growth then so be it.

Yes losing big ones can leave a bit of a gap to fill, but most of my larger ones (>£50) are commercial anyway, and they NEVER complain.

good post overall - I think you will do well whatever you decide

Darran

[KS Cleaning]

i just dont understand the guys that are always 2 or 3 weeks  late.....theres an extra 2 or 3 weeks of muck on the windows to clean off...you d be better off to sell some work and get round bang on time IMO .....

im a week late at present and some of my 4 weekly work(thats 5 weekly this time)are filthy.......

I agree and it’s exactly what I do. Absolutely no point having too much work unless in the near future you are planning on employing or changing frequency. Other than that it makes more sense to cash in on any excess work.

[NWH]

You say it’s a method and it is I agree but I’ve seen some working when I’ve been out and about for years making it look a lot more difficult than it is,whoever you get they need to clean to your method as it’s tried and tested by you it’s easy to just think I can’t be bothered to keep checking their work but you need to.

[Stoots]

i just dont understand the guys that are always 2 or 3 weeks  late.....theres an extra 2 or 3 weeks of muck on the windows to clean off...you d be better off to sell some work and get round bang on time IMO .....

im a week late at present and some of my 4 weekly work(thats 5 weekly this time)are filthy.......

It's easily done. Have a weeks holiday you are a week behind. If you are full you will never catch up so any more down days and you get further and further behind.

That and it's hard to say no to new work so before you know it you have  400 , 500, 600 customers and towing your ballacks off.

[dazmond]

i just dont understand the guys that are always 2 or 3 weeks  late.....theres an extra 2 or 3 weeks of muck on the windows to clean off...you d be better off to sell some work and get round bang on time IMO .....

im a week late at present and some of my 4 weekly work(thats 5 weekly this time)are filthy.......

It's easily done. Have a weeks holiday you are a week behind. If you are full you will never catch up so any more down days and you get further and further behind.

That and it's hard to say no to new work so before you know it you have  400 , 500, 600 customers and towing your ballacks off.

i dont advertise(apart from my sign written van)so i only get a trickle of enquires all year round....most i dont  take on.....

i only have time off at xmas and maybe 2 holidays abroad most years so im bang on time most of the year

[NWH]

If you have too much work it allows you to put prices up on a regular basis without the worry of losing work,it also allows you to go longer between cleans to fit in maybe better more lucrative jobs Daz.

[NWH]

I would say to all those that get really peed off with this job go longer between cleans ok it’s still the same work but it doesn’t seem like you were there a couple of weeks ago.