[Shaun_Ashmore]

A friend of mine was asking about van mounting his Alltec triple vac but suggested he would like to upgrade his vac motors, we did talk about booster boxes but he wasn’t keen so would anyone have any idea what the maximum could be or what would fit? I believe he has a 600 psi pump but says he doesn’t clean much past 200 psi so I guess to make more room he could replace the pump with a smaller one.

[john martin]

Nothing easy about modifing the triple vac  , it could be done  .... like converting it to quad vac  ... or tripe 6.6  ....  but major hassle involving new mountings and other modifications   .
As the machine is  ...  i think it uses three 1400w ameteks ?  but if any any of them are 1200w that could an easy upgrade  .
Three of these is not bad power  ...
https://www.worldwidecleaningsupport.com/spare-parts/vacuum-motors/tangential-vacuum-motors/lamb-electric-240v-ac-3-stage-1400w-tangential-117123-29

If he wanted to try three of the higher power electro motors  ...
https://www.restormate.co.uk/epages/15094.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/15094/Products/VM1500

The version usually stocked does not have a tube attached ( needed for an alltec )  so he would have to order a tube version ...or source a converter ....like this   ( make sure its a 5.7 )
https://www.pb-vac.co.uk/spares3.php?spareid=1973         

I dont think there would be much difference between the electro and ametek .

Apart from all that ... he could buy an inline booster like this airhog  (which has built in pumpout )    so triple vac in van and hog at the front door .
https://www.worldwidecleaningsupport.com/mytee-air-hog-7303

Really though if he can get close to where hes working the three 1500w vacs should be ok  ...   something like a good  inline steammate close to the wand might make more difference than a booster . And just adjust his work methods to make the best of what he has .

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Hi John,

I think he was looking for a swap of internal components, I’m Truckmounted so I know very little about portables nowadays but I am interested in his project, he has said that he doesn’t want to have a booster.

For 100ft plus  hose runs what would be the best option?
I’m guessing that 3 x 1400w motors are more powerful than 2 x 6.6? 
Are the electro motors as powerful as 6.6 motors?

Then theirs the draw?

Thanks

[john martin]

Its not helped by the fact that i cant see a google image of the inside of a triple vac anywhere  ...

But i can see the twin vac advance and i know its tight in there generally  .   The triple vacs have three stacks  ... one directly connected to each vac , vac three has a check valve inline and its also powered by  cord two  ... where as vac one and two are one cord one .
So it can be used as a twin vac ( with immersion heater ) or a triple vac ( with heater off )
The way the vacs are mounted means its a major strip out job and start from scratch to do anything creative. 

All the higher powered vacs are in around the 7 amps max .    There is an 8.5 amp electro which would be a special order , it could be placed in vac 3 position .  Chris at alltec might have them , but really its not a day / night difference whichever of the better vacs he fits .  Adding another motor in some way would be more of a difference but that means booster .
It might be good to ask the question to chris  , see what he says ...    but there is no easy way to get more power on that machine by a simple vac swap .


 

[Glynn]

Our 2 triple vac's only have two stacks.

[john martin]

Our 2 triple vac's only have two stacks.

Three on this one   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stnEO9bLLi0&t=201s

[Glynn]

They must have altered them then, ours are a couple years old, two stacks, three vacs.

[john martin]

its hard to know why  they scrapped it  , i dont think it makes a big difference myself  , they just put a Y on one the internal hoses i suppose .

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Is the 3 x vac motor machine more powerful then 2 x 6.6?

I’m guessing that 2 x 8.4 motors is even better?

[john martin]

 three of the 5.7 lamb ametek ends up about the same as two 6.6   ( on paper anyway )
Three of the 1500w electros will end up a little more powerfull ( but would you notice it )

The 6.6 and the 8.4 have pretty much the same performance  ( about 700 airwatts )
I believe both the 6.6 and 8.4 share the same motor and the same size two  fan stages   , ( about 5 inches ) the only difference is the size of the  plate between and the space inside the head .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmgwbxUkJ4c

Nice if you could fit three 6.6  ... but lots of modifying.

 

[Glynn]

Is the 3 x vac motor machine more powerful then 2 x 6.6?

I’m guessing that 2 x 8.4 motors is even better?

Shaun,
Either setup would be similar to you leaving your titan waste tank lid open

[john martin]

Is the 3 x vac motor machine more powerful then 2 x 6.6?

I’m guessing that 2 x 8.4 motors is even better?

Shaun,
Either setup would be similar to you leaving your titan waste tank lid open

Ha , a powerful electric can be done  ...  it just cant be done easily with the machine Shaun is talking about , especially with out a booster .
To get that TM feel , you need to raise lift as well as CFM  ...  so four 6.6 ( two in parallel with two behind inseries ) is where the power is at  ( it would surprise you a bit )

Another development is Mytees USA machines use their own proprietary 6.6 single stage  , the latest escape uses three of these in series  ... that would not work well with standard vacs , but does with the LX
https://www.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=86&products_id=5674

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jC_znbl8Vw

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Glynn I turn down portable  jobs now I pass them on to my mate

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Would the 6.6 motors fit?
Could  it still be ran off 2 leads?

[Glynn]

Why bother.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

His choice I suppose but I was interested in his project and  what he has planned.

[john martin]

Would the 6.6 motors fit?
Could  it still be ran off 2 leads?

its hard to say without looking at it up close  , anythings possible.  If you remember chris had a twin 6.6 evolution at one stage ( i think he reverted to 5.7 then ? )  I think the 6.6 was mounted horizontally at the back on some sort of manifold.  Probably indicating there was enough space vertical .   
You might even get three in there somewhere  .    Or how about two 6.6 inside ... and the hose for vac three fixed to the body of the machine as a port ... u could then plug a airflex 6.6 booster in  .
But the simplest thing is to check the vacs it has  and make sure they are the high power versions  ,  try a couple of electros perhaps , or stick that 1800w version on vac three ( if chris stocks them )

[Shaun_Ashmore]

John did the 2 x6.6 evolution run off 1 lead?

Ideally no more than 2 leads for 3 x 6.6 and a pump because it’ll be mostly sat in a van

[john martin]

alltec would have to make a twin 6.6 a two cord to stay the right side of regulations.
But you can do what you like  ...   two 6.6 on cord one  .... the third 6.6 and pump on cord two  ... and the heater on cord two ( but only what the vac and pump are off )

[john martin]

whats this  ... a three 6.6 alltec   ( perhaps they built one and never sold them ) ?

[john martin]

at least they look like the shape of a 6.6 ... i could be wrong

[john martin]

no they are 5.7 , my mistake  , the 6.6 does not have the brush holders sticking out the side .

[john martin]

This  the twin 6.6  they made

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Tbh I think booster boxes are the way to go the idea was to have 2 leads for 3 vacs (6.6) and a hx at the door.

I take it there are no 1 lead dual vac extractor configurations? The alternative idea would be to add a booster to still have 2 leads with 3 vacs in total

[john martin]

so ... a two 6.6 machine in van  ... with 6.6 booster plugged into port ? in van ? 

You could run the two 6.6 and pump on one cord  ....   the plug might get warm though.
I would keep the two 6.6 on machine cord one  .... and put the pump on machine cord two 

Then run one extension cord from house to machine cord one ( two vacs )
Run another extension cord to the van (  with a double socket head )   and plug the machine cord two (pump ) into one side ....and the booster into the other .

[Shaun_Ashmore]

That makes sense 1 lead for internal vacs and 1 lead for pump and booster.

I was watching videos of the Airflex Storm (no booster)running 200ft of vac hose don’t know how it would be in real life though.

[john martin]

woudnt be great  , much better to pull the machine off the van .

[Cleanevangelist]

Hi Shaun

Why?

The reason a TM has so much power is because it has to deliver hot water and then recover the dirt at a distance.  Portables can do the same but are closer to the carpet.

Dirt is removed from a carpet by the process of emulsification. detergents (surfactants) come in different types. so choice is important for this to happen.

Pressure is a mechanical action. and amount of water flushing action is far more important.

Vacs are used to recover as much water as posable. thats why putting more hose on a portable reduces this lift.

if you need to upgrade the vacs just turn down the water flow and get closer.

for overall clean carpets the sinners circle shows that by increasing one part would mean being able to reduce others.

I can think of a few reason why someone would want to do this.

wants to work from van. maybe get a TM. this would put your overheads up so you would need to charge more.

not getting a great results. learn more about emulsification and sinner circle.

Wants to work faster. get a cfr, do less work for more money.

Triple vac's are meant for hard floor work you find lots have high water psi for this reason. if your doing hard floors just get a cheap wet pick up.

you really need to know why someone would want to do this. lots of easier, cheaper, and most importantly safer ways to clean carpets and floors.

You where spot on with your answer use a booster. this can help with more lift at short distances and ok water lift at long distances.

All My Best Mate

Ian Harper

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Hi Ian,

The guy I know wants to make things easier but he doesn’t want to buy a truckmount because of cost he won’t make the jump.

[john martin]

Heres a fun ETM you friend could build  ( or anyone )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMepgWHCK8k

Parts needed  ... 
https://www.worldwidecleaningsupport.com/cleaning-machine-accessories/truck-mount-accessories/truck-mount-recovery-tanks
(looks like hes using the fresh water version as the waste tank in the video )
His mounting vacs ontop on tank looks odd ... but they are away from the inflow of water which is entering the first tank .

Two of these  ( preferably four though )
https://www.worldwidecleaningsupport.com/ametek-lamb-122236-18-6-6-vac-motor-2-stage-tan-240v

and a pump  ... could be a 220 aquatec  ( you could easily run the whole thing as a one cord machine )
Or any other pump ...
I might pick this  ... i used one before , its ready to go just attach to a board or something  ..  only 200psi but it feels way more powerfull ...big flow
https://www.agrieuro.co.uk/comet-mc-18-electric-spray-pump-electric-pump-with-single-phase-engine-p-1033.html

You dont need the switch panel or else a very simple one .

[Red_Panda]

Hi, just to save you some time and money, you can't run two 6.6 from one lead... tried it. My ETM is wired lead one - 6.6 + 600 psi pump. Lead two 6.6 + pump out + pre heater (never use).  Even at that every so often the breakers pop.   I use a third lead in the house for a heater.

I use it out to 150' with 2" hose because that's all the hose I have, I'm sure it would go further.  I can't believe how much I spent on petrol and diesel TM's over the years!   90% of the time 75' is enough for regular 3-4 bedroom houses.  50' of hose is too short as the waste hits the waste tank too fast and comes out the motors.  I've done 700 hours on one set of motors.

Why not call Chis and ask what he'd recommend for your machine. The guy is a wizard when it comes to Altec machines.

David.

[john martin]

some pics of you ETM red panda sometime perhaps ?

I dont have issues with two 6.6 on one cord  ...  your 600psi pump might have been a bit much perhaps  ,  or startup surge ( i use softstart ) or perhaps even the houses in your area .  If your aim is a two vac machine though then two cords for two 6.6 is no pain to handle .

[Shaun_Ashmore]

It’d be very interesting to see your ETM

[darren72]

John I was on the phone to Martin at ashbys  a couple of months ago was looking to get a enforcer  400psi with built in steammate I told him I wanted 2 6x6vacs but he was trying to put me off saying there isn't much of a difference between them and the normal 5x7vacs.Seemed a bit strange is it a hassle putting in 6.6vacs with built in steammate.

[john martin]

John I was on the phone to Martin at ashbys  a couple of months ago was looking to get a enforcer  400psi with built in steammate I told him I wanted 2 6x6vacs but he was trying to put me off saying there isn't much of a difference between them and the normal 5x7vacs.Seemed a bit strange is it a hassle putting in 6.6vacs with built in steammate.

Yeah , they cant really do that too easy and comply with standards .  Not just the 6.6 but any full amp (7amps or so ) motor .. they wont put two on the same cord , especiallyt if you want a decent pump .
The steammate needs a cord all to it self  , they do put the immersion heater on a third cord . So you can order a heated 6.6 enforcer , they could do the same with the built in steammate but id say space is an issue with the bigger vacs , and its not on their list of machine options so it would be one off .
The standard enforcer 5.7 works well though,  if you have jobs where you move the gear around a lot the built in steammate would be more convenient than hauling an inline from spot to spot .

[darren72]

Ok cheers think I will go with 5.7vacs and built in steammate and immersion heater

[Red_Panda]

This is for John and Martin.  I was renovating an old Bane machine but couldn't get the air velocity I wanted.  So I striped it out, chopped it up and welded it back together and this is how it turned out.  I've done over 700 hours with no problems.  The Cat pump was a bad choice, wish I went for a triple pump for less vibration.  I also put a heater in it but never use it.  I use an inline heater 15' from the wand, much better.  David.

[john martin]

looks  good , great job , probably more performance than the original  !

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Perhaps you could take us through what you’ve done?

Has it still got a vac blower? Why 2 cords? And there’s another 2 electrical ports?

[Mike Halliday]

That’s a nice paint job on that base unit, much better than the manky blue colour Bane use.

Using 2 power cords with the Bane opens so many possibilities,   I would  run 2x3 vacs on one, a single 3stage & a pump on the other.

Do you leave it van mounted ?

[Red_Panda]

It's now permanently mounted on rail's so I can get in about it for servicing.  However, it used be on wheels in a tiny Fiat Fiorino... the worlds smallest truck mount?  I built it because I was sick of being let down by the poor wiring, connectors and switches in 'regular' machines.  I got an old Bane TM, restored it first but wasn't happy.  There was only a small space available in the van, so I chopped 80% off the freshwater side and 40% off the waste side and had it welded back together.  I squeezed in a 600psi Cat pump, a Mytee pump out, cooling fan, in line heater, and 2x 6.6  vac motors.  I used only straight pluming on the vacs, and I rigged an auto fill and empty system and chemical feed.  The crowning glory is the wiring.  I only use low voltage switches, they power big contractors, which turn the units on and off.  The paint is a powder coat. Cable one powers one 6.6, Cat pump, pump out and fan.  The second powers the second 6.6 and the heater.  One problem with the straight plumbing was the velocity, the waste water came in so fast that it didn't fall, it went straight out the vacuum pipes!  I fixed that with a Mytee inline heater, it was a good idea for the lint anyway.  It took a long time to build.   It also cost a lot to do, the wiring alone was a small fortune.  If I wanted another one I'd probably commission Chris at Altec to build it in one of his cases.  I've used Steamway and Hydramaster TM's in the past, they were awesome, but I prefer using the ETM.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

Just a quick up date (or not)

Because of mainly procrastination my mate never did make his mind up on his ETM but he did ask me to ask the more knowledgeable portable owners what the Ashby’s Enforcer is like? I’ve seen one and they are big!

His rationale is to van mount it and apparently it runs 2 x 1500 watt vac motors and a 400psi pump from one electric lead? This I didn’t know.

I did warn him about their legendary service I guess it’s over to opinions and what you people think of it’s power and 1 lead is that true?

[Robin Ray]

I have an Enforcer with twin 6.6 vac motors and a 800 psi pump. It is a powerful machine and works well. From a portability point of view though..... it isn't. It is far too heavy imo to regularly use as a portable therefore I use it as a van mount. Also from a maintenance point of view it is a nightmare. There is far too much stuff packed in to too small a space, what would normally be a simple job can turn into a major operation.
With regard to using two 5.7s and a 400 psi pump on one single cord. The only way to properly do that is to use one HD vac and one LP  vac along with the pump to get in under 13 amps. I tried this set up in the past, it is useable however it is slightly lacking. It works better using one extra cord to get the extra power of the 6.6's or two HD 5.7s.
The best set up available on the market in the uk at present  for van mounting will have two HD 5.7 like the Alltec evolution or twin 6.6's in various machines. From a portable perspective the Hilite tempest looks very good.
Having struggled in the past with the benefits and draw backs of electric portables, electric TM's, and petrol TM's I have been developing a true dedicated electric TM over the past couple of years. Its 95% complete now and it addresses all of the things I wanted from a machine. When its finished and working I will put a post up about it.

[Shaun_Ashmore]

That’s excellent news but could you get a move on

Is it a re hash of an existing body of a machine?

[john martin]

i would go with the 6.6 enforcer also  ....   
Two cords in the UK means just plugging into a double socket in the hall  ... where as if they are takling about a two cord machine on the USA forums ... it often means plugging into two separate circuits  ... different rooms etc  , we have it easy here .

Im not Hercules, but i find the Enforcer a doddle to remove from van and load  ,   i do make things as easy as i can though , i have a low sitting van  .... and i get my van shelving guy to bring the floor out to the edge of the door  . All these little things help .

Interesting to see what Robin came up with  ... 
I will be building a new booster soon for a new Enforcer  .  I dont do van mounting though.

That said i gotta have a light weight machine too for bring into flats etc       but the small capacity is a nuisance on bigger jobs .

[Robin Ray]

That’s excellent news but could you get a move on

Is it a re hash of an existing body of a machine?

We have been trying to get things moving with it but the lockdown slowed everything up. The post lock down work load hasn't helped either. Its not a rehash of any existing machine it's a bespoke stainless steel build.

[Hawks]

John Martin have you got any pics of the 6.6 vacs in the enforcer, I would like to change mine over? Many thanks

[john martin]

Just dont ask me the distance between the holes :v     Its truly ages since it did that .

Just buy some metal brackets and cut them to fit   .   Drill a hole when you have it measured .
Tips ... make the brackets out of cardboard first ,  you can get the distance by trial fitting .
Tip 2 ... Drill the hole a couple of mm wider than it needs be ... its gives you some wiggle room fitting .

[CozyTheBest]

 swap of internal components?