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TomCrowther

  • Posts: 1965
hypo run off
« on: May 21, 2020, 06:06:14 pm »
Hi Guys.
I'm worried about causing pollution when using Hypo on driveway cleans. I don't necessarily use it on every job and when I do, I use it sparingly.
When rinsing down, it normally runs into  a drain in the road, or the customers property. My understanding is these drains head straight to the local river. Unlike toilet waste which obviously goes to a sewage/water treatment plant. I care about the environment and if at all possible don't want to damage it.
What do you do with the run off?

Smudger

  • Posts: 13164
Re: hypo run off
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2020, 09:09:59 pm »
if run off is going to drains that lead to a river don't use hypo

All chemicals have a trade off - we don't even tip gutter clearing  waste water down the drains

your best bet is to google Sodium Hypochlorite and research it - see where and how its used - its quite interesting - you also be able to source info on it regarding drains - I can't remember all the details, so im not going to give a yey, or nay - but if I recall correctly some local councils will take action if your caught tipping volumes of liquid into the drain ( but you'd would have to verify that )

Darran
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

www.oddbodscleaning.co.uk

SB Cleaning

  • Posts: 4231
Re: hypo run off
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2020, 09:28:13 pm »
I use hypo on pretty much every job i do, if you want spot on results you HAVE to use hypo simples ;)

Yada Yada Yada - www.m-clean.uk

  • Posts: 394
Re: hypo run off
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2020, 10:57:40 pm »
Because of commercial clients & a requirement to prove impact of any chemicals usage on the environment I've probably gone into this more than most & still regularly update what I have learned.

Darran is correct - when you look into 'hypo' it has many layers & for people looking for detail it is fascinating.

The first layer that people reach is the manufactures safety data sheet that states 'very toxic to aquatic life'

This may well be the case - it has to get to the aquatic life 1st but if you look a bit further into it it breaks down rapidly in contact with organic as well as inorganic matter.

It has been studied in commercial laundries that the impact to normal drainage systems is that there is no build up & any tested accumulation is nominal.

The studies on it go to European level & the SCHER  study on its effects to the environment is the one I would use when putting RAMS together.

You are using maximum 15% bleach at a further diluted rate that is then diluted further by wash & rinse water, it is broken down rapidly on impact with organic/inorganic matter & studies time & time again have proven its nominal impact to the environment.

When you take all of the above & there is much more to read, if you just put the right search terms into your search engine, there is a slightly different perspective than the general view.

The HSE may see it differently but with the information gleaned over the last 3 years I would feel confident in combatting any potential prosecution, with a solicitor at my side & the correct risk assessment being followed.

Do I use it - no.

Do I need to use it no.

It would be a very rare occurrence if I felt I had to have it as an everyday option.

It's been stated that you HAVE to use it - I can prove otherwise.

If anybody wants to see an industrial estate being cleaned, which is a mix of concrete & block paved parking, concrete rear walkways, curb edging & other surfaces that hasn't been cleaned in four years (how do I know this? - I cleaned it four years ago) without any chemical use I'll be at Ludlow Business Park next week.

Russell Frost

  • Posts: 3
Re: hypo run off
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2020, 01:00:39 pm »
so what do you use then Yada?

TomCrowther

  • Posts: 1965
Re: hypo run off
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2020, 01:26:13 pm »
Thanks Darran/Yada. Yep, I have read that it breaks down in the drain when in contact with organic matter before but am struggling to find out any more than that. I will spend a bit more time on it.
Darran. What do you do with the gutter waste then? I have done some blocked commercial gutters on warehouses and we are talking tons  of it.

Smudger

  • Posts: 13164
Re: hypo run off
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2020, 01:36:20 pm »
For our commercial works we always get in a mini skip ( or larger if required ) thats added to the quote - saves on bagging up and transporting it ourselves

domestics either get put onto a flower bed or compost heap - if in the very rare occasion they have neither then it stays in the vac until we are back to unit ( these ones barely fill a carrier bag )

Darran
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

www.oddbodscleaning.co.uk

Yada Yada Yada - www.m-clean.uk

  • Posts: 394
Re: hypo run off
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2020, 08:41:56 pm »
so what do you use then Yada?

I use a very large van mounted pressure washer set up, running at 41LPM - it allows rapid cleaning, negates the need for chemicals in most instances, will remove chewing gum with cold water @ about 30 LPM because of correct nozzle choice.

Combined with a van mounted chemical system - set up in the last couple of weeks that will draw water from the main tank and then from a drum of chemical & then a drum of fragrance if needed.

Occasionally I will use an environmentally friendly degreaser - sourced for some work @ Highways England, South Mimms depot a good while back but it was more the challenge of setting the system up & if I want to use something like hypo/chemical moving forward I don't need to get a backpack out or mess around flushing a pure water system out - it can just be switched on, 100 metres of hose pulled out,  apply & then packed away.

I see a use for much more damaging chemicals than hypo but with this set up they can be controlled much easier with less handling.

There is also a separate tank for WFP window cleaning.

This has a bank of 3 x 110 amp batteries topped up with a solar panel set up, powered by 2 x 120 watt panels fixed to the roof.

It is as near to completely self sufficient a set up as is possible (I believe), nothing needs putting into the vehicle or taking out, all parts work together.

I'm equipped with the gear to clean volume because I made the mistakes in the past of not being.

If you're at the other end of the country from where you are based and you aren't equipped you don't let it happen again.

I don't knock anyone who wants to hypo everything - if it works for you go for it but it isn't always as straightforward as that.

TomCrowther

  • Posts: 1965
Re: hypo run off
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2020, 08:20:50 am »
Sounds like a great set up Yada. Well done.

Yada Yada Yada - www.m-clean.uk

  • Posts: 394
Re: hypo run off
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2020, 01:07:57 pm »
Thank you.

Don't think it's fancy - it is just a very big van with lots in it.

The one part I'm happiest about is the solar set up.

Because it is a Luton box it only has a fibreglass roof, no strength in it & no way to fit a traditional roof rack.

I bought a hand riveter, 2 x 2 metre pieces of 50mm equal angle, some long eye bolts, some rubber bungs (as shock absorbers) and managed to put it onto the roof without it looking like a drunk has been up there.

It's not free battery charging because there is an initial cost to buy the solar, the rack & the batteries but they are constantly on charge, with anything from 1.5 amps to 7 or 8 amps going in.

leisure batteries running down were a big problem for me & now there's no need to worry.

I don't know why more window cleaners don't go down the solar route.
 

TomCrowther

  • Posts: 1965
Re: hypo run off
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2020, 04:21:19 pm »
Probably because we have trouble tying our laces in the morning 😂. I’m about to alter my set up as I want to do more pressure washing and it needs to be more efficient.
Going to have a new water tank with two feeds. One for wc and through a di vessel on the way out. Other for the pw.
No more wheelie bins and lugging the machine around.

Smudger

  • Posts: 13164
Re: hypo run off
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2020, 05:43:07 pm »
During the lock down I stripped out the pressure washing van fabricated some frames and bolted it all back together



Other side of the tank is a hot box

Darran
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

www.oddbodscleaning.co.uk

Yada Yada Yada - www.m-clean.uk

  • Posts: 394
Re: hypo run off
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2020, 08:15:17 pm »
Tidy & a lovely shade of daffodil Darran.

Exhaust through the floor?

I'll put some pics up next week when I'm out & about.

Yada Yada Yada - www.m-clean.uk

  • Posts: 394
Re: hypo run off
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2020, 08:22:35 pm »
Tom

I've got plenty of grey on my head & my body tells me every day that I'm no longer a youngster - the work is hard enough without making it any harder

Make it so you open the doors, pull a hose to a water point, switch on & off you go.

That's exactly what Darran has got there.

TomCrowther

  • Posts: 1965
Re: hypo run off
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2020, 09:08:32 pm »
Yep. Cheers Darran/Yada. I’m cracking on s but too. 55 later this year so definitely in need of working smarter. Everything is beginning to feel heavy.

Smudger

  • Posts: 13164
Re: hypo run off
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2020, 11:39:40 pm »
 Well, with the lockdown spray paint was a bit hard to find summer yellow was the official color  ;D

Darran
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

www.oddbodscleaning.co.uk

Russell Frost

  • Posts: 3
Re: hypo run off
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2020, 03:41:13 pm »
so what do you use then Yada?

I use a very large van mounted pressure washer set up, running at 41LPM - it allows rapid cleaning, negates the need for chemicals in most instances, will remove chewing gum with cold water @ about 30 LPM because of correct nozzle choice.

Combined with a van mounted chemical system - set up in the last couple of weeks that will draw water from the main tank and then from a drum of chemical & then a drum of fragrance if needed.

Occasionally I will use an environmentally friendly degreaser - sourced for some work @ Highways England, South Mimms depot a good while back but it was more the challenge of setting the system up & if I want to use something like hypo/chemical moving forward I don't need to get a backpack out or mess around flushing a pure water system out - it can just be switched on, 100 metres of hose pulled out,  apply & then packed away.

I see a use for much more damaging chemicals than hypo but with this set up they can be controlled much easier with less handling.

There is also a separate tank for WFP window cleaning.

This has a bank of 3 x 110 amp batteries topped up with a solar panel set up, powered by 2 x 120 watt panels fixed to the roof.

It is as near to completely self sufficient a set up as is possible (I believe), nothing needs putting into the vehicle or taking out, all parts work together.

I'm equipped with the gear to clean volume because I made the mistakes in the past of not being.

If you're at the other end of the country from where you are based and you aren't equipped you don't let it happen again.

I don't knock anyone who wants to hypo everything - if it works for you go for it but it isn't always as straightforward as that.

I've looked at 41lpm but worried about how quickly that would drain the 1000l tank.

Also don't fancy carting it around full of water as would be very close or over weight limit, or do you just wait a bit longer for it to fill up once on site and keep allowing it time to refill?

Yada Yada Yada - www.m-clean.uk

  • Posts: 394
Re: hypo run off
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2020, 09:11:45 pm »
41LPM is ok if you are on commercial work.

Everything I do is on hydrants.

Just packed one away from Severn Trent.

Anything over 21LPM & twin pump inlet ought to be on hydrants.

Somebody has asked in the for sale section for a Thor @ 41LPM - incredibly expensive  (I've bought one) but there is the Zeta @ 30LPM if you can get one.

I've run on about 25/27 LPM today and everything is clean.

Dual Pumps do them but won't sell it you direct.

My service people can get them

Yada Yada Yada - www.m-clean.uk

  • Posts: 394
Re: hypo run off
« Reply #18 on: May 31, 2020, 10:02:26 am »


There you go.

One very big industrial estate finished in 5 very long (& very hot) days.







Only a small part of it.

Smudger

  • Posts: 13164
Re: hypo run off
« Reply #19 on: May 31, 2020, 06:28:48 pm »
good stuff

is the estate just quiet or you working the w/end on this job

Darran
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

www.oddbodscleaning.co.uk

Yada Yada Yada - www.m-clean.uk

  • Posts: 394
Re: hypo run off
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2020, 07:38:23 pm »
I had to look at the shadows to give me an idea of the time of day.

That was about half past nine on Thursday night.

One of those small company industrial estates, tenants active in every single unit.

Was able to work the periphery and then get onto the parking areas after 5 or 6 pm.

There's two whole areas around the corner that I haven't even shown.

It's the hardest estate I clean for the client, the amount of moss, loose Tarmac off the paving & really bad drainage makes it a nightmare.