[kikjason]

Having not worked since Monday.. I think I'll be returning to work on Monday... I work on my own.. Government advice has been so hard to follow and no what to do.. Now reading information that you can work if you cannot do it from home.. My brother works for sky and there all still working which I think is totally wrong he has to go into people's homes and I don't really class that as important work.. He has to go and look at people's boxes because some people moan that there's different volumes between channels... Really wtf.. I think our job is a lot safer..

[koopmaster]

My thoughts exactly.. I decided to have a week off and rest and go back to work Monday.

[dazmond]

Having not worked since Monday.. I think I'll be returning to work on Monday... I work on my own.. Government advice has been so hard to follow and no what to do.. Now reading information that you can work if you cannot do it from home.. My brother works for sky and there all still working which I think is totally wrong he has to go into people's homes and I don't really class that as important work.. He has to go and look at people's boxes because some people moan that there's different volumes between channels... Really wtf.. I think our job is a lot safer..

If you read the government guidelines you can still go into peoples homes as long as

1,their not self isolating and ill
2.your well
3.your keep the 2m distance rule
4.wash your hands before and after

[Pete Thompson]

My brother works for sky and there all still working which I think is totally wrong he has to go into people's homes and I don't really class that as important work.. He has to go and look at people's boxes because some people moan that there's different volumes between channels... Really wtf.. I think our job is a lot safer..

“I don’t really class as important work”

With all due respect, who cares what you class as important work? The government has given specific instructions about how and when tradespeople (like sky installers) can work in peoples houses.

Therefore he’s doing nothing wrong.

Most people would not class window cleaning “as important work” either. The point is, it’s not up to Joe Public to arbitrarily decide who should and should not work because they personally think it’s “not important work”. It’s up to the government, so stop criticising people or companies who then follow those instructions.

At present, the criteria of whether you can go to work or not is NOT whether or not it’s “important work”.

We need to discourage others from wrongly criticising us window cleaners from working because they don’t consider what we do as “important work”.  If you start participating in that against other workers, then you’re just as bad.

[G Griffin]

My brother works for sky and there all still working which I think is totally wrong he has to go into people's homes and I don't really class that as important work.. He has to go and look at people's boxes because some people moan that there's different volumes between channels... Really wtf.. I think our job is a lot safer..

“I don’t really class as important work”

With all due respect, who cares what you class as important work? The government has given specific instructions about how and when tradespeople (like sky installers) can work in peoples houses.

Therefore he’s doing nothing wrong.

Most people would not class window cleaning “as important work” either. The point is, it’s not up to Joe Public to arbitrarily decide who should and should not work because they personally think it’s “not important work”. It’s up to the government, so stop criticising people or companies who then follow those instructions.

At present, the criteria of whether you can go to work or not is NOT whether or not it’s “important work”.

We need to discourage others from wrongly criticising us window cleaners from working because they don’t consider what we do as “important work”.  If you start participating in that against other workers, then you’re just as bad.

That's a good point. We can't really say what is important or absolutely essential work.
As long as we all follow government instructions should they change though.

[johnwillan]

My brother works for sky and there all still working which I think is totally wrong he has to go into people's homes and I don't really class that as important work.. He has to go and look at people's boxes because some people moan that there's different volumes between channels... Really wtf.. I think our job is a lot safer..

“I don’t really class as important work”

With all due respect, who cares what you class as important work? The government has given specific instructions about how and when tradespeople (like sky installers) can work in peoples houses.

Therefore he’s doing nothing wrong.

Most people would not class window cleaning “as important work” either. The point is, it’s not up to Joe Public to arbitrarily decide who should and should not work because they personally think it’s “not important work”. It’s up to the government, so stop criticising people or companies who then follow those instructions.

At present, the criteria of whether you can go to work or not is NOT whether or not it’s “important work”.

We need to discourage others from wrongly criticising us window cleaners from working because they don’t consider what we do as “important work”.  If you start participating in that against other workers, then you’re just as bad.

That's a good point. We can't really say what is important or absolutely essential work.
As long as we all follow government instructions should they change though.

Agreed

[johnwillan]

Worth a look

https://www.businesssupport.gov.uk/business-closures-and-stay-at-home-faqs/

Does my business need to close?
If your business is on this list, it must close. With the exception of these organisations, the Government has not required any other businesses to close – indeed it is important for business to carry on.

However, you should take every possible step to facilitate working from home, including providing suitable IT and equipment to enable remote working. And if you have people in your offices or onsite you should ensure that they are able to follow Public Health England guidelines including, where possible, maintaining a 2 metre distance from others and washing their hands.

HTH

John

[kikjason]

The sky staff are not happy.. Told them they don't have to work but have to use holidays or no pay. Ridiculous

[Suffolkcleaners]

I agree with the first few posts about continuing on Monday. I am a one man band.  I think some that have worked have been utterly slated and I can’t help thinking if the government announced no help at all for the self employed a lot of the companies that are a ‘no’ to not working would have suddenly been a ‘yes’

In my situation I’ve got a baby and wife to support and this is our livelihood. AS LONG as we stick to the guidelines 100% no exceptions o will be carrying on but as I said very mindful and super strict with following the distancing rule/hygiene etc plus notifying each customer the night before of my arrival. If they want to cancel I will fully understand also.

[kikjason]

Me too.. I worked Monday and everybody was happy to see me.. Don't have many customers numbers just the ones with access issues.. If I work a couple of days a week I can survive on that for a while... I'd prefer to be at home safe but what can we do

[Suffolkcleaners]

I think it’s important to have a contact number for each customer on file. I think the texting the day before is another safety measure as this notifies them of my arrival and like I said if they don’t want them cleaned due to finances being affected or there complete anxiety of the situation I will be totally understanding of this. BUT we have to be super super strict and ensure we don’t go within a few metres of anyone we may see and use gloves/hand washing etc etc

[P @ F]

I was all for not working , not been since Monday but am back at it today , I simply can’t wait for June to then possibly find out that I am for some obscure reason not included in the offer !

I am practicing high hygiene care and the 2m rule , also checking if the custie can afford or wants it , that’s all you can do !

[harleyman]

You can make all the excuses you  want  To work  it's not esential. What makes you think they would whant you there any way  at this time.... when they are self isolating the seeing you all over there property. They realy is no excuse to just turn up.

[Jonny 87]

I was all for not working , not been since Monday but am back at it today , I simply can’t wait for June to then possibly find out that I am for some obscure reason not included in the offer !

I am practicing high hygiene care and the 2m rule , also checking if the custie can afford or wants it , that’s all you can do !

Stay safe bud.

A lot are in the same boat.

[Jonny 87]

You can make all the excuses you  want  To work  it's not esential. What makes you think they would whant you there any way  at this time.... when they are self isolating the seeing you all over there property. They realy is no excuse to just turn up.

Give it a rest Harley.

You still didn’t answer my question.

Your a “kept” man so it doesn’t apply to you, But answer this.

Bankruptcy or working safely as the government have advised?

Which choice?

[Simon Trapani]

You can make all the excuses you  want  To work  it's not esential. What makes you think they would whant you there any way  at this time.... when they are self isolating the seeing you all over there property. They realy is no excuse to just turn up.

Uh..cos only 4 have turned us away in either van all week. One worried about their job, one having a clear out so stuff everywhere, kids playing out in garden on another & the last one was cleaning his own gutters.

[Suffolkcleaners]

And as I said in my previous post I am TEXTING customers the day before so not just turning up

[andyM]

Having not worked since Monday.. I think I'll be returning to work on Monday... I work on my own.. Government advice has been so hard to follow and no what to do.. Now reading information that you can work if you cannot do it from home.. My brother works for sky and there all still working which I think is totally wrong he has to go into people's homes and I don't really class that as important work.. He has to go and look at people's boxes because some people moan that there's different volumes between channels... Really wtf.. I think our job is a lot safer..

I've been out this morning, working, enjoying the sunshine, fresh air and of course getting paid.
We are in a better position than some (at least for the moment) that were ARE able to continue working with the appropriate measures in place.
I am making a point of contacting customers before i arrive to clean their windows, and it is a bit more hassle than usual but i think it's only right during the circumstances to notify them.
 

[pikeman]

been out today no probs. just ask before hand. some customers are over 70 not one turned me away. one is having chemo pretty sure she  wouldn't want them doing. asked the neibour  she said oh yes shes left the payment on the garden table.

[AuRavelling79]

You can make all the excuses you  want  To work  it's not esential. What makes you think they would whant you there any way  at this time.... when they are self isolating the seeing you all over there property. They realy is no excuse to just turn up.

I worked a long day on Monday and that evening went to London to move my daughter's stuff back to Bristol for the foreseeable.
I listened to Boris's announcement that evening while sat on double yellow in London's east end while Mrs Gold and Littlest Gold got the stuff from her flat.

The next day I was too knackered to work and listened to all the to-ing and fro-ing on the TellyBox and on here and decided I would sit this week out for clarification. By Wednesday I pretty much decided that whatever the rights and wrongs and detail of the legislation, I didn't feel right working as a window cleaner. Then Nicola Sturgeon gets up and says Gardeners and Window Cleaners can and should work for the benefit of the community.

I have the luxury of being able to sit this out - especially with £2,500 a month from the government - but reading the FAQ's on the link from the post it does say that if my business hasn't been named as being in lockdown then I can, maybe even saying I should work.

But with the Government's written documents saying a business that is not mandated to close should work then the moral imperative is to not be an unnecessary burden on the tax payer.

However, I still don't feel comfortable doing so. Come Monday I might or I might make myself available to do so depending how Government clarification and public mood continues.

[Stoots]

I'll be trying to do a couple of days a week.

I really don't want to be out and I've gone back and forth on this a few times but ultimately bills need to be paid and whilst the self employed and employed have been guaranteed some help at the minute at least I'm left in no man's land and not sure if I'll get any help.

This thing could go on for months. If i knew I was just 2 or 3 months I could deal with that, but it's the unknown.

[P @ F]

You can make all the excuses you  want  To work  it's not esential. What makes you think they would whant you there any way  at this time.... when they are self isolating the seeing you all over there property. They realy is no excuse to just turn up.

Look mate , if they made the help offer more rapid , even a bridging loan to be deducted when sorted I would down tools now , but it isn’t like that so needs must  , end of !

[G Griffin]

I'll be trying to do a couple of days a week.

I really don't want to be out and I've gone back and forth on this a few times but ultimately bills need to be paid and whilst the self employed and employed have been guaranteed some help at the minute at least I'm left in no man's land and not sure if I'll get any help.

This thing could go on for months. If i knew I was just 2 or 3 months I could deal with that, but it's the unknown.

Can't you furlough yourself as an employee, Gomo?

[andyM]

But with the Government's written documents saying a business that is not mandated to close should work then the moral imperative is to not be an unnecessary burden on the tax payer.

Thank you.
This is how i see it too.
There are many genuine cases where businesses are unable to function right now due to no fault of their own, and those are the people that need financial assistance right now.
I am absorbing losing a few of my commercial customers (at least while their premises are closed), but i will continue to offer the service to all customers that want me to continue and i feel obliged to do so.
 

[johnwillan]

You can make all the excuses you  want  To work  it's not esential. What makes you think they would whant you there any way  at this time.... when they are self isolating the seeing you all over there property. They realy is no excuse to just turn up.

I worked a long day on Monday and that evening went to London to move my daughter's stuff back to Bristol for the foreseeable.
I listened to Boris's announcement that evening while sat on double yellow in London's east end while Mrs Gold and Littlest Gold got the stuff from her flat.

The next day I was too knackered to work and listened to all the to-ing and fro-ing on the TellyBox and on here and decided I would sit this week out for clarification. By Wednesday I pretty much decided that whatever the rights and wrongs and detail of the legislation, I didn't feel right working as a window cleaner. Then Nicola Sturgeon gets up and says Gardeners and Window Cleaners can and should work for the benefit of the community.

I have the luxury of being able to sit this out - especially with £2,500 a month from the government - but reading the FAQ's on the link from the post it does say that if my business hasn't been named as being in lockdown then I can, maybe even saying I should work.

But with the Government's written documents saying a business that is not mandated to close should work then the moral imperative is to not be an unnecessary burden on the tax payer.

However, I still don't feel comfortable doing so. Come Monday I might or I might make myself available to do so depending how Government clarification and public mood continues.

I think this explains it all

[G Griffin]

You can make all the excuses you  want  To work  it's not esential. What makes you think they would whant you there any way  at this time.... when they are self isolating the seeing you all over there property. They realy is no excuse to just turn up.

I worked a long day on Monday and that evening went to London to move my daughter's stuff back to Bristol for the foreseeable.
I listened to Boris's announcement that evening while sat on double yellow in London's east end while Mrs Gold and Littlest Gold got the stuff from her flat.

The next day I was too knackered to work and listened to all the to-ing and fro-ing on the TellyBox and on here and decided I would sit this week out for clarification. By Wednesday I pretty much decided that whatever the rights and wrongs and detail of the legislation, I didn't feel right working as a window cleaner. Then Nicola Sturgeon gets up and says Gardeners and Window Cleaners can and should work for the benefit of the community.

I have the luxury of being able to sit this out - especially with £2,500 a month from the government - but reading the FAQ's on the link from the post it does say that if my business hasn't been named as being in lockdown then I can, maybe even saying I should work.

But with the Government's written documents saying a business that is not mandated to close should work then the moral imperative is to not be an unnecessary burden on the tax payer.

However, I still don't feel comfortable doing so. Come Monday I might or I might make myself available to do so depending how Government clarification and public mood continues.

I think this explains it all

It does. The last two sentences in particular.

One point though- and I'm not casting Nicola Sturgeons- is the unnecessary burden on the taxpayer bit.
Would anyone that has carried on as normal (or will carry on as normal) claim the grant? Or would you, for moral reasons, just not apply?

[andyM]

One point though- and I'm not casting Nicola Sturgeons- is the unnecessary burden on the taxpayer bit.
Would anyone that has carried on as normal (or will carry on as normal) claim the grant? Or would you, for moral reasons, just not apply?

That's a good question.
My work schedule and productivity has been seriously disrupted and im having to put measures in place that i have not needed to before.
However although i will be absorbing a financial loss, i will have to wait and see how large that is.
I would hope that if it were not large i can swallow it and carry on without claiming.
But at this moment i do not know how large that loss will turn out to be.
I am fortunate that my son is still able (at the moment) to attend school, if he were not i would of had to finish last Friday.
So i will try to keep ploughing on the best i can, when i can, and hope that the people who are in a worse financial position than me through no fault of their own right now will get the help they need as soon as possible. 

[G Griffin]

One point though- and I'm not casting Nicola Sturgeons- is the unnecessary burden on the taxpayer bit.
Would anyone that has carried on as normal (or will carry on as normal) claim the grant? Or would you, for moral reasons, just not apply?

That's a good question.
My work schedule and productivity has been seriously disrupted and im having to put measures in place that i have not needed to before.
However although i will be absorbing a financial loss, i will have to wait and see how large that is.
I would hope that if it were not large i can swallow it and carry on without claiming.
But at this moment i do not know how large that loss will turn out to be.
I am fortunate that my son is still able (at the moment) to attend school, if he were not i would of had to finish last Friday.
So i will try to keep ploughing on the best i can, when i can, and hope that the people who are in a worse financial position than me through no fault of their own right now will get the help they need as soon as possible.

As I said earlier, Andy, things are changing continually.
I think that it could be a safety net for those that haven't been too affected. Even an insurance by the government should things get really bad and stricter lockdowns follow.
And you might as well claim because you're going to pay it back anyway. The warnings of less favourable tax conditions and increased national insurance contributions have already been heard.
Anyone not wanting 'free money' and 'government handouts' will still pay for it, as admirable as their actions are.

[Stoots]

I'll be trying to do a couple of days a week.

I really don't want to be out and I've gone back and forth on this a few times but ultimately bills need to be paid and whilst the self employed and employed have been guaranteed some help at the minute at least I'm left in no man's land and not sure if I'll get any help.

This thing could go on for months. If i knew I was just 2 or 3 months I could deal with that, but it's the unknown.

Can't you furlough yourself as an employee, Gomo?

No my accountant has messaged me just now saying they have spoke to HMRC and I won't qualify for either scheme

Can't furlough a sole director as there would be no one left to administer the business apparently.

I'm alright with a few months of savings but annoyed I have to spend my savings when loads will get a hand out.

But such is life

[G Griffin]

I'll be trying to do a couple of days a week.

I really don't want to be out and I've gone back and forth on this a few times but ultimately bills need to be paid and whilst the self employed and employed have been guaranteed some help at the minute at least I'm left in no man's land and not sure if I'll get any help.

This thing could go on for months. If i knew I was just 2 or 3 months I could deal with that, but it's the unknown.

Can't you furlough yourself as an employee, Gomo?

No my accountant has messaged me just now saying they have spoke to HMRC and I won't qualify for either scheme

Can't furlough a sole director as there would be no one left to administer the business apparently.

I'm alright with a few months of savings but annoyed I have to spend my savings when loads will get a hand out.

But such is life

Ah, right.
It's a bad do and I'm not having that the grant is available to 95% of the self employed.

[KS Cleaning]

I will be applying, at the moment I reckon I’ve lost around £150 per month of work, mostly commercial. This is sure to rise over the coming months. Also things could change overnight, the permission to work could be retracted at any time. I will be entitled to the full grant of £2500 per month but what I will say is, if I do profit from this horrible situation it would be totally wrong and immoral, it will be passed onto some NHS charity and family members who have suffered hardship. I will also have to take into account that if my work is largely unaffected, the following year I will probably be paying back 41% of anything I receive

[Shrek]

For the most of us that get paid online it’ll be obvious when HMRC looks at our bank account showing money going in for the last god knows how many years then April a big fat zero going in

[TomCrowther]

I'll be trying to do a couple of days a week.

I really don't want to be out and I've gone back and forth on this a few times but ultimately bills need to be paid and whilst the self employed and employed have been guaranteed some help at the minute at least I'm left in no man's land and not sure if I'll get any help.

This thing could go on for months. If i knew I was just 2 or 3 months I could deal with that, but it's the unknown.

Can't you furlough yourself as an employee, Gomo?

No my accountant has messaged me just now saying they have spoke to HMRC and I won't qualify for either scheme

Can't furlough a sole director as there would be no one left to administer the business apparently.

I'm alright with a few months of savings but annoyed I have to spend my savings when loads will get a hand out.

But such is life

My accountant is v sharp. He mailed me saying that a suggested grant of just 80% of my small monthly wage is the figure if I furlough myself. This is being discussed further as it is treating us very harshly compared to the self employed and employed.
My other half is also a director of the business and I have not yet heard if she is treated the same or not.

[AuRavelling79]

As Italy and America reach new highs and the top echelons of the UK government and its advisors have CV I wonder if tighter restrictions will be in place over the weekend.
Public opinion may tighten against 'unnecessary work' as deaths mount and struggling UK High Intensity wards are shown on TV.

[G Griffin]

I will be applying, at the moment I reckon I’ve lost around £150 per month of work, mostly commercial. This is sure to rise over the coming months. Also things could change overnight, the permission to work could be retracted at any time. I will be entitled to the full grant of £2500 per month but what I will say is, if I do profit from this horrible situation it would be totally wrong and immoral, it will be passed onto some NHS charity and family members who have suffered hardship. I will also have to take into account that if my work is largely unaffected, the following year I will probably be paying back 41% of anything I receive

I don't blame you, you are entitled and you might need it. I hope not though.
If you do and don't need it, I reckon it'll just be part of your yearly return and you'll be taxed more.

[G Griffin]

As Italy and America reach new highs and the top echelons of the UK government and its advisors have CV I wonder if tighter restrictions will be in place over the weekend.
Public opinion may tighten against 'unnecessary work' as deaths mount and struggling UK High Intensity wards are shown on TV.

That's always been at the back of my mind. And now many of us have been offered a lifeline should we be forced to stay home.
Then the PM gets the virus.
Things will be open to change; be on your toes.