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TomCrowther

  • Posts: 1572
Hot water again
« on: August 11, 2019, 08:49:49 pm »
I know, I know. It's been asked before but do the users of professionally fitted hot water systems really believe it cleans more efficiently than cold water and aside from the supple hoses in winter are there any other benefits?
Also, aside from the cost are there any other negatives?
Cheers

Jonny 87

  • Posts: 2959
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2019, 09:00:37 pm »
I love mine.

Itís a grippatank 9kw unit and gives piping hot water. (Nearly too hot)

I use it all day every day, even in the hot weather.

The benefits are for me as I see it;

-Hoses are a doddle to manage.
-Deeper cleaning of glass and frames.
- speed and efficiency ( probably one or two houses a day)

I know many say that thereís no quality difference between hot and cold, but I definitely feel
There is.

After 6 months or so of using HOT water, you will see and feel windows becoming easier to clean. Itís like over time you are really giving them a deep clean. The first 3 or 4 cleans with hot  I noticed I was getting spotting issues, it must be the hot water dissolving more dirt from the seals etc than before. But then after a few cleans, you can just fly through work.

(Let the comments that Iím wrong commence.)

 ;D
Vision Technician / Visual Engineer /  Vision Enhancement Operative /...........................................................OnlyUseMeWFP AkA Jonny the Windy Wesher

nathankaye

  • Posts: 4554
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2019, 09:20:20 pm »
Why else would they spend all that money on a system if it doesn't work........ Is the most simplest, non waffle answer I have 😁
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1NKServices.co.uk

TomCrowther

  • Posts: 1572
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2019, 09:32:06 pm »
I love mine.

Itís a grippatank 9kw unit and gives piping hot water. (Nearly too hot)

I use it all day every day, even in the hot weather.

The benefits are for me as I see it;













-Hoses are a doddle to manage.
-Deeper cleaning of glass and frames.
- speed and efficiency ( probably one or two houses a day)

I know many say that thereís no quality difference between hot and cold, but I definitely feel
There is.

After 6 months or so of using HOT water, you will see and feel windows becoming easier to clean. Itís like over time you are really giving them a deep clean. The first 3 or 4 cleans with hot  I noticed I was getting spotting issues, it must be the hot water dissolving more dirt from the seals etc than before. But then after a few cleans, you can just fly through work.

(Let the comments that Iím wrong commence.)

 ;D
Cheers, appreciate the reply.
I do quite a lot of facias/soffit cleans, a few conny roofs each month and a number of commercial jobs which are either every two months or quarterly.
I think these are the jobs I want hot for, not really the day to day maintenance cleans.
One option is to fill with hot water on the morning when the other jobs are due but, when reading previous posts, it seems this method doesn't provide water hot enough to make much of a difference.
I have also started thinking about a safer system such as Grippatank as I have a 3 year old {kid} who loves going out in the van rather than the truck as she sits in the front with me. So maybe the safety factor is the real driver?

SB Cleaning

  • Posts: 3266
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2019, 09:33:49 pm »
I used hot for a while , didn't notice any difference at all in the quality of clean nor speed of cleaning,  it did however make the hose nice and warm.

So if you want to spend thousands for a nice warm hose then go for it...I prefer just to spend a few quid on some gloves.

Smudger

  • Posts: 9384
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2019, 09:54:02 pm »
YES!!!!!!!!


if I spent 4k on hot water i'd want to believe it worked as well

Darran
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

www.oddbodscleaning.co.uk

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2019, 09:55:04 pm »
Why else would they spend all that money on a system if it doesn't work........ Is the most simplest, non waffle answer I have 😁
Why would somebody spend money on a parts per billion system or an additive ?  working has nothing to do with it.

dazmond

  • Posts: 18147
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2019, 11:27:30 pm »
cold water will do an adequate job,if your happy with that then stay cold.......but hot water is much nicer to work with and makes cleaning easier overall......i prefer hot water every day all year round.....

im not going to get in a stupid tit for tat spat with sean or anyone else......use cold or hot water....i really dont care what you use tbh anymore..... ;D
price higher/work harder!

dazmond

  • Posts: 18147
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2019, 09:16:02 am »
I know, I know. It's been asked before but do the users of professionally fitted hot water systems really believe it cleans more efficiently than cold water and aside from the supple hoses in winter are there any other benefits?
Also, aside from the cost are there any other negatives?
Cheers

pros

1.less likely of doing a bad job when working fast(splashing and dashing)
2.supple warm hoses(easier for dragging around and reeling in)
3.easier cleaning(bird muck,snail trails,pollen,sea salt if you work on the coast)and of course dirty first cleans and add ons.
4.slightly faster than cold water cleaning
5. FROST STAT (no freezing hoses/pumps,etc in winter,no having to remember to put a heater in your van on cold nights)

cons
1.risk of cracking glass on badly fitted or damaged units(only happened once up to now)
2.brushes dont last as long(but the stiff ones last fairly well these days)
3.connections have to be double clipped usually and extra tight or hot water will find the slightest weakness in your system
price higher/work harder!

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 15248
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2019, 11:40:42 am »
I used hot for a while , didn't notice any difference at all in the quality of clean nor speed of cleaning,  it did however make the hose nice and warm.

So if you want to spend thousands for a nice warm hose then go for it...I prefer just to spend a few quid on some gloves.

Or spend less than a ton and fit an immersion...
"Get some (perspective). Go and visit someone in hospital or a home." - G. Griffin

NWH

  • Posts: 10468
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2019, 12:36:03 pm »
Hi Tom,
Is hot water better than cold well I think the answer to that is obvious tbh,it cleans everything much deeper so the comment about getting marks on the first clean or so are correct as it gets stuff off it hasnít been able to before due to just cold water.
Itís cleans windows especially PVC a lot better they actually look cleaner after a couple of cleans,if you are doing cladding roofs and facias etc itís a no brainier the difference in ease of cleaning and results are worlds apart and thatís without chemicals needed,
Itís coming into the time of year now that hot water really makes the difference imo,only you know if itís worth the money I would say try one and see for yourself if you do any kind of coastal work hot systems are a must even if you are cleaning stuff every few weeks.

Smudger

  • Posts: 9384
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2019, 01:08:56 pm »
Hi Tom,
Is hot water better than cold well I think the answer to that is obvious tbh,it cleans everything much deeper so the comment about getting marks on the first clean or so are correct as it gets stuff off it hasnít been able to before due to just cold water.
Itís cleans windows especially PVC a lot better they actually look cleaner after a couple of cleans,if you are doing cladding roofs and facias etc itís a no brainier the difference in ease of cleaning and results are worlds apart and thatís without chemicals needed,
Itís coming into the time of year now that hot water really makes the difference imo,only you know if itís worth the money I would say try one and see for yourself if you do any kind of coastal work hot systems are a must even if you are cleaning stuff every few weeks.

much deeper than what ? - were cleaning upvc and glass - if you hadn't noticed they are hard surfaces - you can't go deeper than the surface unless your customers are using old jogging bottoms as gutters

 ;D

Darran
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

www.oddbodscleaning.co.uk

TomCrowther

  • Posts: 1572
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2019, 02:09:34 pm »
I know, I know. It's been asked before but do the users of professionally fitted hot water systems really believe it cleans more efficiently than cold water and aside from the supple hoses in winter are there any other benefits?
Also, aside from the cost are there any other negatives?
Cheers

pros

1.less likely of doing a bad job when working fast(splashing and dashing)
2.supple warm hoses(easier for dragging around and reeling in)
3.easier cleaning(bird muck,snail trails,pollen,sea salt if you work on the coast)and of course dirty first cleans and add ons.
4.slightly faster than cold water cleaning
5. FROST STAT (no freezing hoses/pumps,etc in winter,no having to remember to put a heater in your van on cold nights)

cons
1.risk of cracking glass on badly fitted or damaged units(only happened once up to now)
2.brushes dont last as long(but the stiff ones last fairly well these days)
3.connections have to be double clipped usually and extra tight or hot water will find the slightest weakness in your system
Cheers Dazmond

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2019, 02:55:21 pm »
I know, I know. It's been asked before but do the users of professionally fitted hot water systems really believe it cleans more efficiently than cold water and aside from the supple hoses in winter are there any other benefits?
Also, aside from the cost are there any other negatives?
Cheers

pros

1.less likely of doing a bad job when working fast(splashing and dashing)
2.supple warm hoses(easier for dragging around and reeling in)
3.easier cleaning(bird muck,snail trails,pollen,sea salt if you work on the coast)and of course dirty first cleans and add ons.
4.slightly faster than cold water cleaning
5. FROST STAT (no freezing hoses/pumps,etc in winter,no having to remember to put a heater in your van on cold nights)

cons
1.risk of cracking glass on badly fitted or damaged units(only happened once up to now)
2.brushes dont last as long(but the stiff ones last fairly well these days)
3.connections have to be double clipped usually and extra tight or hot water will find the slightest weakness in your system
Cheers Dazmond

Cheers for what ? its simple, if you are spending a large amount of time struggling to get the crud of the glass then maybe you might be one of those unfortunate shiners who actually does need hot water, there's only one real con which is the amount of extra cleans/work you will need to do to cover the cost.

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2019, 03:11:50 pm »
Iv used hot and for the reason Smudger has already given there's no difference to the finished clean, speed will be down to confidence, skill and other factors so its impossible to measure what part the hot is playing in this, for me any non essential expense has to either make my day easier or make me more money and using hot done neither.

dazmond

  • Posts: 18147
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2019, 04:14:29 pm »
i must be one of them "unfortunate shiners" then...... ::)roll....i do less hours window cleaning than ive ever done,earn more now than i ever have in the past......ill settle for that..... :D 8).....
price higher/work harder!

Smudger

  • Posts: 9384
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2019, 04:36:36 pm »
If you can find me a website (other than ionics) where it states warm/hot water cleans better than cold please link it - EVERY site I've looked at states hot cleans no better than cold - the introduction of hot water was for the use of detergent as detergents are now better formulated the water temp can be lowered (look at your washing machine 30 degree is standard now not the old fashioned boil wash)

Maybe if your using vision in your tank then hot will help as it may with tfr but the effect is minimal - great for soft hoses on cold days tho

Darran
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

www.oddbodscleaning.co.uk

NWH

  • Posts: 10468
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2019, 04:56:48 pm »
As Lee Pryor said on here before you wonít notice the same difference if you compare 30 degree water to cold water,if you use hot water over 55-60 degrees you will see a big difference,that temperature will be seen with a 5kw heater intermittently but with a 9kw heater itís more or less constant at that temperature.
Itís not a competition lol if it was crap I wouldnít bother to keep running it Iíd turn it off and use it for wash downs or first cleans,like I say Tom try a hot system and see for yourself m8

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2019, 05:45:03 pm »
i must be one of them "unfortunate shiners" then...... ::)roll....i do less hours window cleaning than ive ever done,earn more now than i ever have in the past......ill settle for that..... :D 8).....
So do I and I didn't have to waste £4k plus costs to do it, just like you its was looking for and seeing problems that didn't exist which held me back.

The Jester of Wibbly

  • Posts: 1719
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2019, 05:48:20 pm »
Why does it feel like deja vu... Again again again again  ;D
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Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2019, 05:54:02 pm »
Why does it feel like deja vu... Again again again again  ;D

Show me a thread that doesn't feel like deja vu, if it wasn't for snake oils, gimmicks, messers and pricing what else would we have to talk about. lol

dazmond

  • Posts: 18147
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2019, 03:53:48 pm »




Hot water is great for jobs like these....👍😎
price higher/work harder!

dd

  • Posts: 1896
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2019, 05:46:44 pm »
I use cold water and have no plan to go hot but to me it is common sense that hot water would clean more efficiently than cold. It would need to be 50 degrees plus probably.

I find hot water much better for dish washing than cold, and the dishwasher and washing machine both use hot water.

If you do a google search on hot water vs cold the scientific explanation seems to be: heating water decreases its viscosity and increases the kinetic activity of the water molecules.

dazmond

  • Posts: 18147
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2019, 06:02:04 pm »
another 2 plus points.....windows dry quicker and i have no drop off in flow to my brush in the colder months due to the lower viscosity of warm/hot water....
price higher/work harder!

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2019, 06:23:47 pm »
I use cold water and have no plan to go hot but to me it is common sense that hot water would clean more efficiently than cold. It would need to be 50 degrees plus probably.

I find hot water much better for dish washing than cold, and the dishwasher and washing machine both use hot water.

If you do a google search on hot water vs cold the scientific explanation seems to be: heating water decreases its viscosity and increases the kinetic activity of the water molecules.
Try cleaning dishes without detergent and you wont see any difference, washing machines are now being made to use cold water only, but at the end of the day a clean window is a clean window and thats all that counts, the only thing that it could do is make the clean quicker but Iv yet to see any hot user prove that it does.

Jonny 87

  • Posts: 2959
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2019, 06:27:15 pm »
I use cold water and have no plan to go hot but to me it is common sense that hot water would clean more efficiently than cold. It would need to be 50 degrees plus probably.

I find hot water much better for dish washing than cold, and the dishwasher and washing machine both use hot water.

If you do a google search on hot water vs cold the scientific explanation seems to be: heating water decreases its viscosity and increases the kinetic activity of the water molecules.
Try cleaning dishes without detergent and you wont see any difference, washing machines are now being made to use cold water only, but at the end of the day a clean window is a clean window and thats all that counts, the only thing that it could do is make the clean quicker but Iv yet to see any hot user prove that it does.

Now that is ridiculous Sean.

Next time you have a greasy plate,  run it under the cold tap, then under the hot. Regardless of detergent hot water cleans better than cold. Youíd be mad to think otherwise.

As has already been posted, thereís science behind why hot cleans better than cold.
Vision Technician / Visual Engineer /  Vision Enhancement Operative /...........................................................OnlyUseMeWFP AkA Jonny the Windy Wesher

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2019, 06:49:30 pm »
I use cold water and have no plan to go hot but to me it is common sense that hot water would clean more efficiently than cold. It would need to be 50 degrees plus probably.

I find hot water much better for dish washing than cold, and the dishwasher and washing machine both use hot water.

If you do a google search on hot water vs cold the scientific explanation seems to be: heating water decreases its viscosity and increases the kinetic activity of the water molecules.
Try cleaning dishes without detergent and you wont see any difference, washing machines are now being made to use cold water only, but at the end of the day a clean window is a clean window and thats all that counts, the only thing that it could do is make the clean quicker but Iv yet to see any hot user prove that it does.

Now that is ridiculous Sean.

Next time you have a greasy plate,  run it under the cold tap, then under the hot. Regardless of detergent hot water cleans better than cold. Youíd be mad to think otherwise.

As has already been posted, thereís science behind why hot cleans better than cold.

Water alone hot or cold wont remove grease that's a fact,  and yes there may be a scientific reason why hot will clean certain products better than cold but that doesn't mean it applies to what we are removing from glass, my windows will be as clean as yours and you are deluded if you think other.

Smudger

  • Posts: 9384
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2019, 06:54:09 pm »
Where has it been posted hot (without detergent) cleans better than cold

I have only found sites that state hot and cold water without detergent clean exactly the same it was the introduction of detergents that brought in the era of hot water ( I will clarify Ďhotí upto 130 degrees f 50 degrees c ) there is better cleaning and bacterial benefits at and around boiling point

So, at the temps used at wfp there appears to be no particular speed benefit

Darran
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

www.oddbodscleaning.co.uk

Dave Willis

  • Posts: 9521
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2019, 07:14:58 pm »
What I canít work out regards speed (apart from bird poo). Is that youíd have to physically do something different with your technique to clean glass quicker.
So, hot users, what do you do differently? Less strokes on the glass, less water or what? None of us can see the microscopic dirt coming off anyway so how do we know hot is faster than cold?
Iím not a cactus specialist 🌵 but I know a prick when I see one!

Shrek

  • Posts: 2510
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2019, 07:49:57 pm »
Exactly - you still have to move the brush up and down and side to side the same amount of times so how do you get quicker?
We donít clean grease off windows , itís just dust etc nothing greasy though

nathankaye

  • Posts: 4554
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2019, 08:01:55 pm »
On a straight forward maintenance clean, there isn't really any difference, apart from the ease and comfort of the hose etc.
However, first cleans, 8 weekly cleans, tree sap on the windows, insect poop etc etc needs less strokes and agitation etc and does make you slightly faster
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NWH

  • Posts: 10468
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2019, 09:41:55 pm »
Tree sapp grease bird poo and I mean baked on bird poo as well as small yellow bee spots are removed effortlessly with hot water,if hot was no better than cold like Iíve said before I wouldnít have got another or Iíd turn mine off most of the time but it stays on all the time for me I love it.
You can debate resin quality or 1 squeegee is better than another but hot over cold thereís not really a debate to be had other than is it worth the money,the fact it is better is obvious itís not debatable when you are taking about whether or not it cleans everything better of course it does.
Try getting up and looking at youíre work from the inside of jobs not from 25-30ft away,most stuff looks clean at that distance hot  gives you confidence the jobs done better.

Shrek

  • Posts: 2510
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2019, 09:51:14 pm »
Come on , it doesnít save you that much time - your talking 1 or 2 seconds

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2019, 10:02:27 pm »
Tree sapp grease bird poo and I mean baked on bird poo as well as small yellow bee spots are removed effortlessly with hot water,if hot was no better than cold like Iíve said before I wouldnít have got another or Iíd turn mine off most of the time but it stays on all the time for me I love it.
You can debate resin quality or 1 squeegee is better than another but hot over cold thereís not really a debate to be had other than is it worth the money,the fact it is better is obvious itís not debatable when you are taking about whether or not it cleans everything better of course it does.
Try getting up and looking at youíre work from the inside of jobs not from 25-30ft away,most stuff looks clean at that distance hot  gives you confidence the jobs done better.

For some having an L and R wrote on their work boots would give them the confidence to go out knowing they were wearing them on the right feet, but that doesnt mean we all need the same.
For me zero customer complaints is all the confidence boosting I need.

dazmond

  • Posts: 18147
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2019, 08:29:14 am »
itll soon be winter lads...... ;D

another point about hot water....customers are really impressed with it esp in the colder months when the steam is coming off your brush,it looks great......and adds a bit of warm comfort on a cold dull working day.....
price higher/work harder!

Spotfree

  • Posts: 222
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2019, 09:28:08 am »
It seems that the argument over hot versus cold is not whether one is more effective than another, its more like is it really needed in our industry.

I live rural and coastal at the same time and a lot of my work is like 4 weekly first cleans, some months its ok and some areas are better than others but on the whole, I think I may benefit from hot water.

I just ain't paying out to Grippa/whoever, a silly amount of money that'll basically slash my profit by a fair percentage. I do look at the systems and they do look nice etc, but when I think about handing the ££ over it kills me. Even on a monthly basis that's a lot of extra money to payout.

I do have a 3kw immersion though, but it doesn't get the water hot enough to the point where it seems to make a difference. what is the sweet spot temp wise?

I am considering getting another immersion in the tank to boost the temps right up, I reckon it'll cost no more in electricity than it would in diesel, but I won't have a stupid amount to outlay. Also the expensive frost stat I wouldn't need, as a side benefit of an immersion heater is keeping the van warm overnight so double whammy there.

I may end up with a deformed looking tank though, its probably years old now though.

The Jester of Wibbly

  • Posts: 1719
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2019, 09:41:50 am »
You can't teach an old dog new tricks.   Just stick to hot or cold, whatever your affordability or happy with.

I use hot and more than happy with it.   I Don't care what others think, all I'm bothered about is if it works for me carry on  ;D
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Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2019, 09:57:31 am »
itll soon be winter lads...... ;D

another point about hot water....customers are really impressed with it esp in the colder months when the steam is coming off your brush,it looks great......and adds a bit of warm comfort on a cold dull working day.....
[/quote

What are they ? idiots, theres no way you would be putting hot water on my cold windows risking fractures and possibly reducing their lifespan, especially when I know  it isnt needed, thing is if I was your competition I would also be pointing that out to your customers.

NWH

  • Posts: 10468
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2019, 10:08:00 am »
Used hot for over 13 years cracked less than a handful,I prefer cold water tbh the hose in winter goes like telegraph pole wire it gets tangled like mad I love it 😂.
You canít beat coming out   to youíre van in the middle of winter only to find everything frozen and frosty,Iíd stay cold m8 at least you can look forward to those green weatherboard cleans or salt covered windows by the sea lovely.

nathankaye

  • Posts: 4554
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2019, 11:14:22 am »
itll soon be winter lads...... ;D

another point about hot water....customers are really impressed with it esp in the colder months when the steam is coming off your brush,it looks great......and adds a bit of warm comfort on a cold dull working day.....

A bit like this:
https://youtu.be/v0CeiiO5qoM

But also lads, as Sean keeps harping about, yes you can do just as good with cold water but how much effort does it require?  We've all had that stubborn bird poop that you need to soak and come back to. Or the pollen/tree sap/insect poop which needs a good scrub to come off and yes it eventually does. Yet guess what, no such effort is needed when you use hot water, just a couple of passes and it's off.
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Spotfree

  • Posts: 222
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2019, 11:35:10 am »
itll soon be winter lads...... ;D

another point about hot water....customers are really impressed with it esp in the colder months when the steam is coming off your brush,it looks great......and adds a bit of warm comfort on a cold dull working day.....

A bit like this:
https://youtu.be/v0CeiiO5qoM

But also lads, as Sean keeps harping about, yes you can do just as good with cold water but how much effort does it require?  We've all had that stubborn bird poop that you need to soak and come back to. Or the pollen/tree sap/insect poop which needs a good scrub to come off and yes it eventually does. Yet guess what, no such effort is needed when you use hot water, just a couple of passes and it's off.
What kind of temps are you getting Nathan? In the tank and at the brush?

I have a 3kw in 650 ltr but would look to add more kw's, what temp do you need to be to make a difference mate?

Gomo

  • Posts: 3518
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2019, 11:44:43 am »

Sure hot might clean a bit faster on certain marks but the running costs far out weight the benefits.

As for keeping the van an hoses frost free that can be done with a simple immersion at a fraction of the cost of a diesel heater

Gomo

  • Posts: 3518
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2019, 11:48:40 am »
itll soon be winter lads...... ;D

another point about hot water....customers are really impressed with it esp in the colder months when the steam is coming off your brush,it looks great......and adds a bit of warm comfort on a cold dull working day.....

A bit like this:
https://youtu.be/v0CeiiO5qoM

But also lads, as Sean keeps harping about, yes you can do just as good with cold water but how much effort does it require?  We've all had that stubborn bird poop that you need to soak and come back to. Or the pollen/tree sap/insect poop which needs a good scrub to come off and yes it eventually does. Yet guess what, no such effort is needed when you use hot water, just a couple of passes and it's off.

Again though, how many marks or stubborn stains per week do you come across and how much time do you save per bird poo ?

Let's say it's 20 bird poos/marks a week at 10 seconds per poo so 3 mins 20 seconds saved a week.

And hot water costs how much a week even using just an immersion?

I could save 3 mins by cleaning windows and not posting this whilst eating my lunch.

NWH

  • Posts: 10468
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2019, 11:53:28 am »
Itís not just that Nathan if you go inside and see some of the windows youíll see the difference between the 2,from the ground they look spotless but with some dirty windows and they all get dirtier than they once did these days due to pollution and more traffic around with cold sometimes you can see bits or sections of the window that get missed.
Itís the 🐝 spots and spiders in the corners that clean up easier and better as well as frames,itís not a debate itís fact.

P @ F

  • Posts: 5262
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2019, 12:11:53 pm »
My diesel heater costs about £2 a day to run , itís so little I donít worry about it and run it full time .
I donít think that I would buy a Grippa or PF one to be honest , donít think I could justify the outlay and running cost , for me itís a comfort thing that gets rid of snail trails quicker and thatís it !
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

nathankaye

  • Posts: 4554
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2019, 12:25:09 pm »
This is the point though isn't it, being able to justify the running cost of hot water in relation to the profit being made.
Granted, I wouldn't want to spend a couple of grand on a hot water system, but that's because I'm not in a position to justify such a spend with everything else going on in my life.  However, if these circumstances were different, then perhaps I would. Its save and you have the option to run it or not, being job specific.

I wouldn't use the gas option, just for the variable things that could change an explosion, which is more realistic.

I've gone the immersion heater route, lol which is well documented on here (for ones to search, if they have any questions, I'm sure it's been covered).  The cost is very small, if you alter your tariff etc, as I have done so. (Again previously mentioned)   so it can be a cheap way of using hot water and if trying to justify a small expense, then you are even a tight fisted Yorkshire or a Scot 😁
 
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dazmond

  • Posts: 18147
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2019, 12:25:52 pm »
itll soon be winter lads...... ;D

another point about hot water....customers are really impressed with it esp in the colder months when the steam is coming off your brush,it looks great......and adds a bit of warm comfort on a cold dull working day.....
[/quote

What are they ? idiots, theres no way you would be putting hot water on my cold windows risking fractures and possibly reducing their lifespan, especially when I know  it isnt needed, thing is if I was your competition I would also be pointing that out to your customers.

Sean you really are a proper saddo arent you? ;D
price higher/work harder!

NWH

  • Posts: 10468
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #47 on: August 14, 2019, 02:42:17 pm »
At 55-60 degrees you will see a big difference in drying times and cleaning results.

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #48 on: August 14, 2019, 03:29:31 pm »
itll soon be winter lads...... ;D

another point about hot water....customers are really impressed with it esp in the colder months when the steam is coming off your brush,it looks great......and adds a bit of warm comfort on a cold dull working day.....

A bit like this:
https://youtu.be/v0CeiiO5qoM

But also lads, as Sean keeps harping about, yes you can do just as good with cold water but how much effort does it require?  We've all had that stubborn bird poop that you need to soak and come back to. Or the pollen/tree sap/insect poop which needs a good scrub to come off and yes it eventually does. Yet guess what, no such effort is needed when you use hot water, just a couple of passes and it's off.
What kind of temps are you getting Nathan? In the tank and at the brush?

I have a 3kw in 650 ltr but would look to add more kw's, what temp do you need to be to make a difference mate?

Not trying to rude Spot but Nathan K makes it up as he goes along and nothing he ever comes out with adds up, if your looking for decent immersion advice then Gold, Smudger and others are the ones to ask and listen to.

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2019, 03:38:45 pm »
At 55-60 degrees you will see a big difference in drying times and cleaning results.

I don't get any quality complaints from customers infect the opposite or care about drying times, do I need hot ?

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #50 on: August 14, 2019, 03:41:30 pm »
itll soon be winter lads...... ;D

another point about hot water....customers are really impressed with it esp in the colder months when the steam is coming off your brush,it looks great......and adds a bit of warm comfort on a cold dull working day.....
[/quote

What are they ? idiots, theres no way you would be putting hot water on my cold windows risking fractures and possibly reducing their lifespan, especially when I know  it isnt needed, thing is if I was your competition I would also be pointing that out to your customers.

Sean you really are a proper saddo arent you? ;D

Dazmond Iv no problem taking customers from shiners who haven't a clue what they're doing,  ruthless yes but sad no.

dazmond

  • Posts: 18147
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2019, 03:46:45 pm »
itll soon be winter lads...... ;D

another point about hot water....customers are really impressed with it esp in the colder months when the steam is coming off your brush,it looks great......and adds a bit of warm comfort on a cold dull working day.....
[/quote

What are they ? idiots, theres no way you would be putting hot water on my cold windows risking fractures and possibly reducing their lifespan, especially when I know  it isnt needed, thing is if I was your competition I would also be pointing that out to your customers.

Sean you really are a proper saddo arent you? ;D

Dazmond Iv no problem taking customers from shiners who haven't a clue what they're doing,  ruthless yes but sad no.

ive informed all my customers that you ll be on the way round sean to warn them about my hot water!......... ;D

your just like the trad shiners who try to convince all their customers wfp does a bad job! :P ;D
price higher/work harder!

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2019, 04:06:51 pm »
itll soon be winter lads...... ;D

another point about hot water....customers are really impressed with it esp in the colder months when the steam is coming off your brush,it looks great......and adds a bit of warm comfort on a cold dull working day.....
[/quote

What are they ? idiots, theres no way you would be putting hot water on my cold windows risking fractures and possibly reducing their lifespan, especially when I know  it isnt needed, thing is if I was your competition I would also be pointing that out to your customers.

Sean you really are a proper saddo arent you? ;D

Dazmond Iv no problem taking customers from shiners who haven't a clue what they're doing,  ruthless yes but sad no.

ive informed all my customers that you ll be on the way round sean to warn them about my hot water!......... ;D

your just like the trad shiners who try to convince all their customers wfp does a bad job! :P ;D
You dont get irony do you Dazmond. lol

Spotfree

  • Posts: 222
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #53 on: August 14, 2019, 04:30:59 pm »
Looking around online I would need another 1kw to make 4 kw and run that for roughly 12 hours to reach around 60 degrees.

My average pence per kilowatt price is 15p, so that equates to £7.20 per night for 60 degrees hot water.

Not sure I want to pay that.

Spotfree

  • Posts: 222

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2019, 05:08:25 pm »
Looking around online I would need another 1kw to make 4 kw and run that for roughly 12 hours to reach around 60 degrees.

My average pence per kilowatt price is 15p, so that equates to £7.20 per night for 60 degrees hot water.

Not sure I want to pay that.

Running  a 4kw immersion for 12 hours non stop would even put upgraded home electrics under strain, it would certainly take a fairly heavy extension lead.

P @ F

  • Posts: 5262
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #56 on: August 14, 2019, 05:29:56 pm »
Looking around online I would need another 1kw to make 4 kw and run that for roughly 12 hours to reach around 60 degrees.

My average pence per kilowatt price is 15p, so that equates to £7.20 per night for 60 degrees hot water.

Not sure I want to pay that.
Blimey , £7.20 would do me 3.5 days with my diesel !
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

Spotfree

  • Posts: 222
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #57 on: August 14, 2019, 05:40:32 pm »
Looking around online I would need another 1kw to make 4 kw and run that for roughly 12 hours to reach around 60 degrees.

My average pence per kilowatt price is 15p, so that equates to £7.20 per night for 60 degrees hot water.

.

Running  a 4kw immersion for 12 hours non stop would even put upgraded home electrics under strain, it would certainly take a fairly heavy extension lead.

Not sure I want to pay that.
The 3 kw I have has been done on a full 16a rig, the other 1 kw would be separate. Not sure I want to pay that in electric though.
 I can get to 45 degrees in around 10 hours on my 3kw set up as it is, not sure by the time it gets to the brush head its going to be any more than frost protection.

nathankaye

  • Posts: 4554
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #58 on: August 14, 2019, 06:10:43 pm »
My tariff with N power is 15p day and night it is 7.5p. That's from midnight till 7 am. 
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P @ F

  • Posts: 5262
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #59 on: August 14, 2019, 06:11:30 pm »
I have found that in general I lose 1*c for each 10m of hose out .
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

Spotfree

  • Posts: 222
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #60 on: August 14, 2019, 06:19:36 pm »
My tariff with N power is 15p day and night it is 7.5p. That's from midnight till 7 am.

Thats a big difference, economy 7 tarrif is that?

Cheers

nathankaye

  • Posts: 4554
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #61 on: August 14, 2019, 09:45:24 pm »
My tariff with N power is 15p day and night it is 7.5p. That's from midnight till 7 am.

Thats a big difference, economy 7 tarrif is that?

Cheers

Possibly lol, I'll have to have a check on its name. I just remember the prices
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dazmond

  • Posts: 18147
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #62 on: August 15, 2019, 07:43:01 am »
Looking around online I would need another 1kw to make 4 kw and run that for roughly 12 hours to reach around 60 degrees.

My average pence per kilowatt price is 15p, so that equates to £7.20 per night for 60 degrees hot water.

Not sure I want to pay that.

it costs me around £5 a day to run my diesel heater for 5-6 hours a day.once the initial cost of the heater is paid for then your laughing......i think your mad not to have a decent hot water system working on the coast,itll make your working day easier for sure......

if its true that your in the £60-£65k a year turnover bracket you should be easily able to afford a professionally fitted 9kw diesel heater,plus its tax deductible too....
price higher/work harder!

Spotfree

  • Posts: 222
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #63 on: August 15, 2019, 08:52:25 am »
Looking around online I would need another 1kw to make 4 kw and run that for roughly 12 hours to reach around 60 degrees.

My average pence per kilowatt price is 15p, so that equates to £7.20 per night for 60 degrees hot water.

Not sure I want to pay that.

it costs me around £5 a day to run my diesel heater for 5-6 hours a day.once the initial cost of the heater is paid for then your laughing......i think your mad not to have a decent hot water system working on the coast,itll make your working day easier for sure......

if its true that your in the £60-£65k a year turnover bracket you should be easily able to afford a professionally fitted 9kw diesel heater,plus its tax deductible too....

I could buy one outright today, but the price for hot water is high that way. I'm going to speak to my energy provider today and see if I cant get the economy 7 tariff.

If I upgrade my immersion heater for £50 or less, I can have a tank of steaming hot water for around £3.50-£4.00 including frost protection with only pennies spent.

Your system looks great Daz, I do want one of them but Its simply overpriced for what it is and I can't bring myself to do it. I work hard to bring home the dough, but 2 kids and a mortgage etc...

P @ F

  • Posts: 5262
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #64 on: August 15, 2019, 09:36:42 am »
I have one and Iím on my arse !
Although mine doesnít have the posh badge on it  ;D
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

Spotfree

  • Posts: 222
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #65 on: August 15, 2019, 03:08:14 pm »
I have one and Iím on my arse !
Although mine doesnít have the posh badge on it  ;D

Ah yes, but you figured out how to make one yourself. I don't think I have the capacity for that.

P @ F

  • Posts: 5262
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #66 on: August 15, 2019, 04:55:42 pm »
Just been shopping for parts for an easier build and more compact design , supplying these may not be too far away  ;D
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

Shrek

  • Posts: 2510
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #67 on: August 15, 2019, 05:15:39 pm »
Just been shopping for parts for an easier build and more compact design , supplying these may not be too far away  ;D

Put me on the waiting list  :D

Spotfree

  • Posts: 222
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #68 on: August 15, 2019, 05:17:48 pm »
x2

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #69 on: August 15, 2019, 05:26:46 pm »
Looking around online I would need another 1kw to make 4 kw and run that for roughly 12 hours to reach around 60 degrees.

My average pence per kilowatt price is 15p, so that equates to £7.20 per night for 60 degrees hot water.

Not sure I want to pay that.

it costs me around £5 a day to run my diesel heater for 5-6 hours a day.once the initial cost of the heater is paid for then your laughing......i think your mad not to have a decent hot water system working on the coast,itll make your working day easier for sure......

if its true that your in the £60-£65k a year turnover bracket you should be easily able to afford a professionally fitted 9kw diesel heater,plus its tax deductible too....

I could buy one outright today, but the price for hot water is high that way. I'm going to speak to my energy provider today and see if I cant get the economy 7 tariff.

If I upgrade my immersion heater for £50 or less, I can have a tank of steaming hot water for around £3.50-£4.00 including frost protection with only pennies spent.

Your system looks great Daz, I do want one of them but Its simply overpriced for what it is and I can't bring myself to do it. I work hard to bring home the dough, but 2 kids and a mortgage etc...

As the standing charge and day rates are a lot higher on economy 7 it can be a false economy, unless using large amounts it can actually cost more than a normal tariff, you also need to remember if you claim business expenses on this electric then you need to pay the full 20% vat on it.

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #70 on: August 15, 2019, 05:38:20 pm »
Looking around online I would need another 1kw to make 4 kw and run that for roughly 12 hours to reach around 60 degrees.

My average pence per kilowatt price is 15p, so that equates to £7.20 per night for 60 degrees hot water.

Not sure I want to pay that.

it costs me around £5 a day to run my diesel heater for 5-6 hours a day.once the initial cost of the heater is paid for then your laughing......i think your mad not to have a decent hot water system working on the coast,itll make your working day easier for sure......

if its true that your in the £60-£65k a year turnover bracket you should be easily able to afford a professionally fitted 9kw diesel heater,plus its tax deductible too....

I could buy one outright today, but the price for hot water is high that way. I'm going to speak to my energy provider today and see if I cant get the economy 7 tariff.

If I upgrade my immersion heater for £50 or less, I can have a tank of steaming hot water for around £3.50-£4.00 including frost protection with only pennies spent.

Your system looks great Daz, I do want one of them but Its simply overpriced for what it is and I can't bring myself to do it. I work hard to bring home the dough, but 2 kids and a mortgage etc...

Its because deep down you know its a folly that wont pay its way, if it did Grippa would have a waiting list as long as your arm and most names on here on here including my own would be on it.
As business people if somethings going to make us more money for less work we find a way to fund it.

dazmond

  • Posts: 18147
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #71 on: August 15, 2019, 06:40:55 pm »
Looking around online I would need another 1kw to make 4 kw and run that for roughly 12 hours to reach around 60 degrees.

My average pence per kilowatt price is 15p, so that equates to £7.20 per night for 60 degrees hot water.

Not sure I want to pay that.

it costs me around £5 a day to run my diesel heater for 5-6 hours a day.once the initial cost of the heater is paid for then your laughing......i think your mad not to have a decent hot water system working on the coast,itll make your working day easier for sure......

if its true that your in the £60-£65k a year turnover bracket you should be easily able to afford a professionally fitted 9kw diesel heater,plus its tax deductible too....

I could buy one outright today, but the price for hot water is high that way. I'm going to speak to my energy provider today and see if I cant get the economy 7 tariff.

If I upgrade my immersion heater for £50 or less, I can have a tank of steaming hot water for around £3.50-£4.00 including frost protection with only pennies spent.

Your system looks great Daz, I do want one of them but Its simply overpriced for what it is and I can't bring myself to do it. I work hard to bring home the dough, but 2 kids and a mortgage etc...

if you go for the 2 man grippa hot system with 2 pumps you would be able to turn off the heater at lunchtime as the water will be piping hot in your 650L tank....

but its up to you mate....yes its an expensive bit of kit but its quality.....dont forget you dont just get the 9kw heater,it comes with the controller,smart split charge relay,2 x heavy duty 105ah  numax batteries,frost stat feature and of course fitting......if you go vat registered in the future you can claim the vat back(£750 of the price of the heater was vat).....
price higher/work harder!

Spotfree

  • Posts: 222
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #72 on: August 15, 2019, 07:30:29 pm »
Looking around online I would need another 1kw to make 4 kw and run that for roughly 12 hours to reach around 60 degrees.

My average pence per kilowatt price is 15p, so that equates to £7.20 per night for 60 degrees hot water.

Not sure I want to pay that.

it costs me around £5 a day to run my diesel heater for 5-6 hours a day.once the initial cost of the heater is paid for then your laughing......i think your mad not to have a decent hot water system working on the coast,itll make your working day easier for sure......

if its true that your in the £60-£65k a year turnover bracket you should be easily able to afford a professionally fitted 9kw diesel heater,plus its tax deductible too....

I could buy one outright today, but the price for hot water is high that way. I'm going to speak to my energy provider today and see if I cant get the economy 7 tariff.

If I upgrade my immersion heater for £50 or less, I can have a tank of steaming hot water for around £3.50-£4.00 including frost protection with only pennies spent.

Your system looks great Daz, I do want one of them but Its simply overpriced for what it is and I can't bring myself to do it. I work hard to bring home the dough, but 2 kids and a mortgage etc...

Its because deep down you know its a folly that wont pay its way, if it did Grippa would have a waiting list as long as your arm and most names on here on here including my own would be on it.
As business people if somethings going to make us more money for less work we find a way to fund it.

Well this hot water debate has been making me think, I see it like this, it's not whether it's effective or not but more like is it necessary for us?

It's obvious we all have different beliefs, and hot water is more relevant in some areas than others. I'm wondering if it might make my work a little easier here and there as I'm coastal and rural. Some parts are a real pain even on a 4 weekly basis. Snail trails, seagull muck, bug spots, spider webs, and all that nice stuff are more the rule than the exception.

I do want to try some 60-degree water on the bad parts of my round and see if makes it even slightly easier, some areas I won't even bother as it couldn't get any easier than it already is.

The way I see it is I'm 41 this week on Saturday, Friday night I'm going to the physio for knee pain this time. I'm no slouch or wimp but I do believe I need to think about the next 20 years of work (if it gets that far) and look after my body, I've 2 younguns.

The easier the better I say, life gives us enough challenges, keep some energy for something else.

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #73 on: August 15, 2019, 09:10:27 pm »
Looking around online I would need another 1kw to make 4 kw and run that for roughly 12 hours to reach around 60 degrees.

My average pence per kilowatt price is 15p, so that equates to £7.20 per night for 60 degrees hot water.

Not sure I want to pay that.

it costs me around £5 a day to run my diesel heater for 5-6 hours a day.once the initial cost of the heater is paid for then your laughing......i think your mad not to have a decent hot water system working on the coast,itll make your working day easier for sure......

if its true that your in the £60-£65k a year turnover bracket you should be easily able to afford a professionally fitted 9kw diesel heater,plus its tax deductible too....

I could buy one outright today, but the price for hot water is high that way. I'm going to speak to my energy provider today and see if I cant get the economy 7 tariff.

If I upgrade my immersion heater for £50 or less, I can have a tank of steaming hot water for around £3.50-£4.00 including frost protection with only pennies spent.

Your system looks great Daz, I do want one of them but Its simply overpriced for what it is and I can't bring myself to do it. I work hard to bring home the dough, but 2 kids and a mortgage etc...

Its because deep down you know its a folly that wont pay its way, if it did Grippa would have a waiting list as long as your arm and most names on here on here including my own would be on it.
As business people if somethings going to make us more money for less work we find a way to fund it.

Well this hot water debate has been making me think, I see it like this, it's not whether it's effective or not but more like is it necessary for us?

It's obvious we all have different beliefs, and hot water is more relevant in some areas than others. I'm wondering if it might make my work a little easier here and there as I'm coastal and rural. Some parts are a real pain even on a 4 weekly basis. Snail trails, seagull muck, bug spots, spider webs, and all that nice stuff are more the rule than the exception.

I do want to try some 60-degree water on the bad parts of my round and see if makes it even slightly easier, some areas I won't even bother as it couldn't get any easier than it already is.

The way I see it is I'm 41 this week on Saturday, Friday night I'm going to the physio for knee pain this time. I'm no slouch or wimp but I do believe I need to think about the next 20 years of work (if it gets that far) and look after my body, I've 2 younguns.

The easier the better I say, life gives us enough challenges, keep some energy for something else.
Beliefs have nothing to do with it, I tried hot and found it made no difference to my quality or working day, you work on the coast so will have conditions that I didnt and dont have to deal with so cant say if it will benefit you or not.
To be fair when it comes to these nonsense threads I just like winding up Dazmond yes it does no it doesnt work, Jonny Vision is a game changer and NWH the only thing that beats parts per billion water in a free conny roof clean, only in window cleaning lol.

P @ F

  • Posts: 5262
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #74 on: August 15, 2019, 10:22:50 pm »
I must be the only diesel user that didnít get slated there  ;D

Dry clean , you say you used hot , did you not even see a benefit on first cleans , you know , the grotty green ones ?
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

Jonny 87

  • Posts: 2959
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #75 on: August 16, 2019, 07:34:53 am »
I must be the only diesel user that didnít get slated there  ;D

Dry clean , you say you used hot , did you not even see a benefit on first cleans , you know , the grotty green ones ?

Course not!

Sean only needs 100 litres of pure water a day, out the back of a car, cold water, one brush to do everything, and a fibreglass pole to reach perfect standards of cleaning, he has 5 star reviews and his customers give him cups of tea at the start, middle, and end of each job he does.

Heís what we all aspire to be. We just havenít realised it yet.

 ;D
Vision Technician / Visual Engineer /  Vision Enhancement Operative /...........................................................OnlyUseMeWFP AkA Jonny the Windy Wesher

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #76 on: August 16, 2019, 08:23:53 am »
I must be the only diesel user that didnít get slated there  ;D

Dry clean , you say you used hot , did you not even see a benefit on first cleans , you know , the grotty green ones ?

Course not!

Sean only needs 100 litres of pure water a day, out the back of a car, cold water, one brush to do everything, and a fibreglass pole to reach perfect standards of cleaning, he has 5 star reviews and his customers give him cups of tea at the start, middle, and end of each job he does.

Heís what we all aspire to be. We just havenít realised it yet.

 ;D

Iv had a new van and ready build system from day one,  I could have done it a lot cheaper but for me it was mony well spent, like you Iv also wasted money on nonsense, a Dragonfly indoor kit and an overpriced  £2k gutter vac complete with 48feet worth of alloy poles to name but a few, but unlike you I learn from my mistakes.
Explain again, if Vision was doing what hot can do why do you now need hot ?

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #77 on: August 16, 2019, 08:32:07 am »
I must be the only diesel user that didnít get slated there  ;D

Dry clean , you say you used hot , did you not even see a benefit on first cleans , you know , the grotty green ones ?

I used a 9kw gas heater, there was a slight difference in speed on grotty gutters/fascias but I still needed to spray them with a chemical or the hot on its own would have been slower. there was no difference in removing ingrained stains and so on.

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #78 on: August 16, 2019, 08:40:20 am »
I must be the only diesel user that didnít get slated there  ;D
That's because you know that there are plenty of fools with money to burn and want to line your pockets with some of it, It the same with Vision, you can slate the product and the fools who buy it  but you have to take your hat off to Kempy for realising he could make money from it.

Jonny 87

  • Posts: 2959
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #79 on: August 16, 2019, 10:42:19 am »
I must be the only diesel user that didnít get slated there  ;D

Dry clean , you say you used hot , did you not even see a benefit on first cleans , you know , the grotty green ones ?

Course not!

Sean only needs 100 litres of pure water a day, out the back of a car, cold water, one brush to do everything, and a fibreglass pole to reach perfect standards of cleaning, he has 5 star reviews and his customers give him cups of tea at the start, middle, and end of each job he does.

Heís what we all aspire to be. We just havenít realised it yet.

 ;D

Iv had a new van and ready build system from day one,  I could have done it a lot cheaper but for me it was mony well spent, like you Iv also wasted money on nonsense, a Dragonfly indoor kit and an overpriced  £2k gutter vac complete with 48feet worth of alloy poles to name but a few, but unlike you I learn from my mistakes.
Explain again, if Vision was doing what hot can do why do you now need hot ?

You say that.........but Iíve never seen a picture of your set up, or a picture/video of you working like many of us on here have shown. You offer nothing of any contribution or help on here.  Care to prove me wrong?

Your just a troll Sean, who likes to constantly try to prove that your way is the best way, and your working at maximum efficiency and anyone else who tries to make improvements are stupid because they do things different to you.

Have you seen how many hot water setups grippatank are doing these days? They can hardly keep up with the demand. that should say it all
Really. Having hot water isnít some kind of elite setup, itís very affordable, when you consider itís going to last you 10 plus years if you look after it.

When did I say vision additive replaced hot water use? I still Use Vision additive to this day, I just use a tweaked version that suits my needs better and to work along with the hot water. Iíve no invested interest  in vision anymore, Kempy took it all on, and is doing very well from it with many happy customers.

Sorry for the ďrantĒ sounding post, but from
Time to time all the other newbies on the forum need to see you for what you are.

Its a shame you push many away from
this forum with your constant need for drama though.

Vision Technician / Visual Engineer /  Vision Enhancement Operative /...........................................................OnlyUseMeWFP AkA Jonny the Windy Wesher

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #80 on: August 16, 2019, 11:01:45 am »
I must be the only diesel user that didnít get slated there  ;D

Dry clean , you say you used hot , did you not even see a benefit on first cleans , you know , the grotty green ones ?

Course not!

Sean only needs 100 litres of pure water a day, out the back of a car, cold water, one brush to do everything, and a fibreglass pole to reach perfect standards of cleaning, he has 5 star reviews and his customers give him cups of tea at the start, middle, and end of each job he does.

Heís what we all aspire to be. We just havenít realised it yet.

 ;D

Iv had a new van and ready build system from day one,  I could have done it a lot cheaper but for me it was mony well spent, like you Iv also wasted money on nonsense, a Dragonfly indoor kit and an overpriced  £2k gutter vac complete with 48feet worth of alloy poles to name but a few, but unlike you I learn from my mistakes.
Explain again, if Vision was doing what hot can do why do you now need hot ?

You say that.........but Iíve never seen a picture of your set up, or a picture/video of you working like many of us on here have shown. You offer nothing of any contribution or help on here.  Care to prove me wrong?

Your just a troll Sean, who likes to constantly try to prove that your way is the best way, and your working at maximum efficiency and anyone else who tries to make improvements are stupid because they do things different to you.

Have you seen how many hot water setups grippatank are doing these days? They can hardly keep up with the demand. that should say it all
Really. Having hot water isnít some kind of elite setup, itís very affordable, when you consider itís going to last you 10 plus years if you look after it.

When did I say vision additive replaced hot water use? I still Use Vision additive to this day, I just use a tweaked version that suits my needs better and to work along with the hot water. Iíve no invested interest  in vision anymore, Kempy took it all on, and is doing very well from it with many happy customers.

Sorry for the ďrantĒ sounding post, but from
Time to time all the other newbies on the forum need to see you for what you are.

Its a shame you push many away from
this forum with your constant need for drama though.

Dry your eyes Jonny, you wibbled on about Vision doing much the same as you now claim to be getting from hot, so I will ask you again, why does Vision no longer make you quicker, the work easier, deep clean the windows and give the superior results needed  ? the joke is you havent even got the sense to know you cant justify using both.



dazmond

  • Posts: 18147
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #81 on: August 16, 2019, 11:39:44 am »
ive ordered a WE USE THE GRIPPATANK HOT WATER SYSTEM sticker when ordering some pole clamp fittings...... ;D

ive got one for you sean too,can you send me your address so i can post it to you?

thanks..... ;D
price higher/work harder!

Jonny 87

  • Posts: 2959
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #82 on: August 16, 2019, 11:46:26 am »
I must be the only diesel user that didnít get slated there  ;D

Dry clean , you say you used hot , did you not even see a benefit on first cleans , you know , the grotty green ones ?

Course not!

Sean only needs 100 litres of pure water a day, out the back of a car, cold water, one brush to do everything, and a fibreglass pole to reach perfect standards of cleaning, he has 5 star reviews and his customers give him cups of tea at the start, middle, and end of each job he does.

Heís what we all aspire to be. We just havenít realised it yet.

 ;D

Iv had a new van and ready build system from day one,  I could have done it a lot cheaper but for me it was mony well spent, like you Iv also wasted money on nonsense, a Dragonfly indoor kit and an overpriced  £2k gutter vac complete with 48feet worth of alloy poles to name but a few, but unlike you I learn from my mistakes.
Explain again, if Vision was doing what hot can do why do you now need hot ?

You say that.........but Iíve never seen a picture of your set up, or a picture/video of you working like many of us on here have shown. You offer nothing of any contribution or help on here.  Care to prove me wrong?

Your just a troll Sean, who likes to constantly try to prove that your way is the best way, and your working at maximum efficiency and anyone else who tries to make improvements are stupid because they do things different to you.

Have you seen how many hot water setups grippatank are doing these days? They can hardly keep up with the demand. that should say it all
Really. Having hot water isnít some kind of elite setup, itís very affordable, when you consider itís going to last you 10 plus years if you look after it.

When did I say vision additive replaced hot water use? I still Use Vision additive to this day, I just use a tweaked version that suits my needs better and to work along with the hot water. Iíve no invested interest  in vision anymore, Kempy took it all on, and is doing very well from it with many happy customers.

Sorry for the ďrantĒ sounding post, but from
Time to time all the other newbies on the forum need to see you for what you are.

Its a shame you push many away from
this forum with your constant need for drama though.

Dry your eyes Jonny, you wibbled on about Vision doing much the same as you now claim to be getting from hot, so I will ask you again, why does Vision no longer make you quicker, the work easier, deep clean the windows and give the superior results needed  ? the joke is you havent even got the sense to know you cant justify using both.

What makes you think the marginal benefits of hot water and an additive arenít worth it?

I absolutely believe there is benefits to additives, and I absolutely believe there is benefits to hot water.

Why would hot water negate the benefits of additives? Surely combining the two is the ultimate.

The speed that I can clean at, and the results I get have increased since using both, I regularly do internal cleaning, and I get to check my results. If you fly around a property can you guarantee thereís no pollen spots, a remnant of a snail, or a bird mess that hasnít completely gone?

I can work as fast as possible, and also guarantee that my work is as close to perfect as you can get.

So for me...... there are benefits of both.

Iíve no doubt you possibly can clean at the same speed as me, but I do guarantee that your quality wouldnít be as good. Thatís been my experience on my work.

The fact you donít get complaints isnít an argument, customers might not complain over a few marks here and there, but they certainly notice.

Anyway, Iím done talking to you now, its never productive and I really should learn. I just hope that some of the newbies donít fall for your dribble, or that some of the guys on here who want to improve donít listen to your constant ďnay sayingĒ.
Vision Technician / Visual Engineer /  Vision Enhancement Operative /...........................................................OnlyUseMeWFP AkA Jonny the Windy Wesher

Tristan R Clean

  • Posts: 246
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #83 on: August 16, 2019, 01:17:38 pm »
I think one consideration is - putting the extra costs of a professionally installed diesel heater on to a customers price. Then educating them to the benefits of having their windows cleaned with hot rather than cold.
I think most of us would admit they would go hot straight away if they could do this.

Tris

nathankaye

  • Posts: 4554
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #84 on: August 16, 2019, 01:23:22 pm »
I've had a couple of customers feel the need to pick up my house and help move it and they often remark/ask if I use hot water. I explain I do and that it cleans better.  they've all been impressed?
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Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #85 on: August 16, 2019, 02:11:25 pm »
I must be the only diesel user that didnít get slated there  ;D

Dry clean , you say you used hot , did you not even see a benefit on first cleans , you know , the grotty green ones ?

Course not!

Sean only needs 100 litres of pure water a day, out the back of a car, cold water, one brush to do everything, and a fibreglass pole to reach perfect standards of cleaning, he has 5 star reviews and his customers give him cups of tea at the start, middle, and end of each job he does.

Heís what we all aspire to be. We just havenít realised it yet.

 ;D

Iv had a new van and ready build system from day one,  I could have done it a lot cheaper but for me it was mony well spent, like you Iv also wasted money on nonsense, a Dragonfly indoor kit and an overpriced  £2k gutter vac complete with 48feet worth of alloy poles to name but a few, but unlike you I learn from my mistakes.
Explain again, if Vision was doing what hot can do why do you now need hot ?

You say that.........but Iíve never seen a picture of your set up, or a picture/video of you working like many of us on here have shown. You offer nothing of any contribution or help on here.  Care to prove me wrong?

Your just a troll Sean, who likes to constantly try to prove that your way is the best way, and your working at maximum efficiency and anyone else who tries to make improvements are stupid because they do things different to you.

Have you seen how many hot water setups grippatank are doing these days? They can hardly keep up with the demand. that should say it all
Really. Having hot water isnít some kind of elite setup, itís very affordable, when you consider itís going to last you 10 plus years if you look after it.

When did I say vision additive replaced hot water use? I still Use Vision additive to this day, I just use a tweaked version that suits my needs better and to work along with the hot water. Iíve no invested interest  in vision anymore, Kempy took it all on, and is doing very well from it with many happy customers.

Sorry for the ďrantĒ sounding post, but from
Time to time all the other newbies on the forum need to see you for what you are.

Its a shame you push many away from
this forum with your constant need for drama though.

Dry your eyes Jonny, you wibbled on about Vision doing much the same as you now claim to be getting from hot, so I will ask you again, why does Vision no longer make you quicker, the work easier, deep clean the windows and give the superior results needed  ? the joke is you havent even got the sense to know you cant justify using both.

What makes you think the marginal benefits of hot water and an additive arenít worth it?

I absolutely believe there is benefits to additives, and I absolutely believe there is benefits to hot water.

Why would hot water negate the benefits of additives? Surely combining the two is the ultimate.

The speed that I can clean at, and the results I get have increased since using both, I regularly do internal cleaning, and I get to check my results. If you fly around a property can you guarantee thereís no pollen spots, a remnant of a snail, or a bird mess that hasnít completely gone?

I can work as fast as possible, and also guarantee that my work is as close to perfect as you can get.

So for me...... there are benefits of both.

Iíve no doubt you possibly can clean at the same speed as me, but I do guarantee that your quality wouldnít be as good. Thatís been my experience on my work.

The fact you donít get complaints isnít an argument, customers might not complain over a few marks here and there, but they certainly notice.

Anyway, Iím done talking to you now, its never productive and I really should learn. I just hope that some of the newbies donít fall for your dribble, or that some of the guys on here who want to improve donít listen to your constant ďnay sayingĒ.
Jonny I got all this same quality rubbish back in the day from trad guys who couldn't get their heads round the fact that water on it own could clean a window to perfection  , Vision, hot and I can guarantee once the next snake oil comes along it will be third on your list and  even then it still wont be enough, at the end of the day there are enough idiots in this game without allowing guys like you to make more.

dazmond

  • Posts: 18147
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #86 on: August 16, 2019, 02:18:22 pm »
the other week i had a customer who had their conny demolished but the windows/frames doors round the back were covered in concrete splatter......the hot water REMOVED ALL OF IT.....after a few scrubs and a good soak.....no way would cold water do it!!

ive also had dried on egg on windows that have come off with hot water too in the past....not a chance with cold water!
price higher/work harder!

nathankaye

  • Posts: 4554
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #87 on: August 16, 2019, 02:27:54 pm »
the other week i had a customer who had their conny demolished but the windows/frames doors round the back were covered in concrete splatter......the hot water REMOVED ALL OF IT.....after a few scrubs and a good soak.....no way would cold water do it!!

ive also had dried on egg on windows that have come off with hot water too in the past....not a chance with cold water!

they dont like to know that hot water helps remove concrete splatter......they are still in denial that hot water actually works better than cold and better than trad.   
let's just  ;D and leave them to think that cold water is still great 👍
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Dry Clean

  • Posts: 2968
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #88 on: August 16, 2019, 02:36:25 pm »
the other week i had a customer who had their conny demolished but the windows/frames doors round the back were covered in concrete splatter......the hot water REMOVED ALL OF IT.....after a few scrubs and a good soak.....no way would cold water do it!!

ive also had dried on egg on windows that have come off with hot water too in the past....not a chance with cold water!

they dont like to know that hot water helps remove concrete splatter......they are still in denial that hot water actually works better than cold and better than trad.   
let's just  ;D and leave them to think that cold water is still great 👍

My poor simple lads, old dried concrete rubble/dust doesn't stick to windows the way a fresh batch would, its would take a heavy duty chemical to get that off.

nathankaye

  • Posts: 4554
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #89 on: August 16, 2019, 03:50:25 pm »
ok Sean  ;D ;D ;D
👍👍
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P @ F

  • Posts: 5262
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #90 on: August 16, 2019, 04:30:17 pm »
Hot water is pants , thatís why I am just in the middle of building another heater  ;D
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

P @ F

  • Posts: 5262
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #91 on: August 16, 2019, 04:56:36 pm »
All done and ready for the latest heat exchanger to be fixed on !

I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

escorttdi

  • Posts: 229
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #92 on: August 16, 2019, 05:01:05 pm »
whens it for sale

P @ F

  • Posts: 5262
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #93 on: August 16, 2019, 05:09:20 pm »
whens it for sale

Not quite ready yet , it all depends on how the heat exchanger performs , then I need to source a cabinet to mount it all in .
I'm so lazy I'm getting tired of it !

nathankaye

  • Posts: 4554
Re: Hot water again
« Reply #94 on: August 16, 2019, 06:09:51 pm »
get a move on then rich, were all waiting  ;D ;D
with having all these days off due to it raining, you should be knocking these out  ;D
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