[nathankaye]

Advancement is great, I'm sure we all agree on that point.  Take for instance smart phones, we can organise our work, do emails, use this forum and even use them as a phone 😂
Sometimes we may wonder how we ever got by with just the red pay phones scattered around towns n villages 😂😂

Why the waffle?

Hot water debate!    So I wondered if all you cold water lovers we're right!  Accusing the hot water users of trumping it up and the placebo effect. So several weeks ago my thermostat broke on the immersion, so I thought I would go back to cold for atleast a month and see.
Absolutely hate it!  Yes it cleans and cleans well, but the hose is cold and stiff, which allows for kinking to happen way to easy.  Yes stubborn bird muck will come off! But,,,, you have to soak it and return or set about getting a scraper or brass wool out etc.
Frames take longer and more scrubbing and the list goes on and on.
I'm not going back to cold water that's for sure!

I do wonder how I used to get by without it / or work easier without hot water before!  The answer is simple!  I didn't know how much better it can be with Hot until I fully tried it!

(let the debate n haters begin 😂)

[p1w1]

You need to get a life 

[Richard Groves]

Nathan, is wc more of an obssession /  hobby for you ?  By your own admission cold water cleans and cleans well. That's good enough for me. Warm supple hoses and less scrubbing on some bird poop is not going to earn me any more money vs the expenditure for its luxury.  There are some great advancements, the univalve being one of them. But don't you still like to  attach yourself to hose pipe and faff about with a metal tap  that leaks and makes you look like you've wet yourself ?

[Dry Clean]

The guy actually made a video using cold water showing how easy it was to do 35 detached properties with conservatories a day because in his own  words theres nothing on the glass that's hard to remove, the next day he was making a video on installing hot because in his own words again cold wasn't good or quick enough to remove all the crud that ends up on the glass.
When it comes to Nathan its better to just smile and nod.

[Smudger]

Advancement is great, I'm sure we all agree on that point.  Take for instance smart phones, we can organise our work, do emails, use this forum and even use them as a phone 😂
Sometimes we may wonder how we ever got by with just red pay phones scattered arou d towns n villages 😂😂

Why the waffle?
Hot water debate!    So I wondered if all you cold water livers we're right!  Accusing the hot water users of trumping it up and the placebo effect. So several weeks ago my thermostat broke on the immersion, so I thought I would go back to cold for atleast a month and see.
Absolutely hate it!  Yes it cleans and cleans well, but the hose is cold and stiff, which allows for kinking to happen way to easy.  Yes stubborn bird muck will come off! But,,,, you have to soak it and return or set about getting a scraper or brass wool out etc.
Frames take longer and more scrubbing and the list goes on and on.
I'm not going back to cold water that's for sure!

I do wonder how I used to get by without it / or work easier without hot water before!  The answer is simple!  I didn't know how much better it can be with Hot until I fully tried it!

(let the debate n haters begin 😂)

YAWN!

[KS Cleaning]

Advancement is great, I'm sure we all agree on that point.  Take for instance smart phones, we can organise our work, do emails, use this forum and even use them as a phone 😂
Sometimes we may wonder how we ever got by with just red pay phones scattered arou d towns n villages 😂😂

Why the waffle?
Hot water debate!    So I wondered if all you cold water livers we're right!  Accusing the hot water users of trumping it up and the placebo effect. So several weeks ago my thermostat broke on the immersion, so I thought I would go back to cold for atleast a month and see.
Absolutely hate it!  Yes it cleans and cleans well, but the hose is cold and stiff, which allows for kinking to happen way to easy.  Yes stubborn bird muck will come off! But,,,, you have to soak it and return or set about getting a scraper or brass wool out etc.
Frames take longer and more scrubbing and the list goes on and on.
I'm not going back to cold water that's for sure!

I do wonder how I used to get by without it / or work easier without hot water before!  The answer is simple!  I didn't know how much better it can be with Hot until I fully tried it!

(let the debate n haters begin 😂)

So you hate using cold water so much that you’ve waited several weeks to replace a broken thermostat? .....mmmmmmm

[nathankaye]

Lovin the appreciation guys
👍👍

Erm which vid was the 35 houses on Sean?
Haha I ain't got time to watch em n find out, but your the video n forum police around here. I'm sure you can bring it to my attention.

Darren, really! I expected more from you...... What a disappointment 

Big Kahuna,  the tap doesn't leak mate, that's why it's on the hip and not dragging on the floor or looped on the pole.
Haha the univalve,,,,,, please! Yep it's great for on/off. I actually use one on the spare pole, but you still have to carry the pole hose or sling it as your walking. That's more faff than just walking and dropping your arm for a couple os seconds to turn on or off. Mine are long levers, so it's a doddle.  Easier than tugging on a pole hose put it that way.

KS cleaning, thank you for joining the debate. If it's a trial to see, how long would you give it?  1hr,  a morning,  a day, a week or longer?  Several weeks was a fair trial I thought and aren't you guys all about being fair? 

[KS Cleaning]

Lovin the appreciation guys
👍👍

Erm which vid was the 35 houses on Sean?
Haha I ain't got time to watch em n find out, but your the video n forum police around here. I'm sure you can bring it to my attention.

Darren, really! I expected more from you...... What a disappointment 

Big Kahuna,  the tap doesn't leak mate, that's why it's on the hip and not dragging on the floor or looped on the pole.
Haha the univalve,,,,,, please! Yep it's great for on/off. I actually use one on the spare pole, but you still have to carry the pole hose or sling it as your walking. That's more faff than just walking and dropping your arm for a couple os seconds to turn on or off. Mine are long levers, so it's a doddle.  Easier than tugging on a pole hose put it that way.

KS cleaning, thank you for joining the debate. If it's a trial to see, how long would you give it?  1hr,  a morning,  a day, a week or longer?  Several weeks was a fair trial I thought and aren't you guys all about being fair?

Several weeks to trial something that you had previously used for several years🤥..........Na, poor excuse, you’ll have to come up with something better than that😉

[James Styles]

[nathankaye]

Can you guys, stop with the needless quoting. Take it that people are reading the last several posts at least and will be able to figure out what your response is for.

Ks cleaning,,,,,,, (see its easy, you posted and so u know what you wrote unless you have a memory of a ten Yr old,,,,,,,,, see how I didn't need to "quote" it.
The fact I've been on hot water for over a year,  non stop can make you disillusional as ones have accused before. Therefore, a fair trial was needed.
😂😂 Or are you insinuating that I do actually prefer cold water over hot and that's why it went on for Sooo long?   Hhhhmmmm I did not consider that, perhaps I did....... Now you've got me confused

[G Griffin]

I like them red phone boxes.
I found some of your business cards in there, Nate. About what you do in the rain?

[nathankaye]

I like them red phone boxes.
I found some of your business cards in there, Nate. About what you do in the rain?

Ahhh I wondered who the heavy breather was
😂😂

[AuRavelling79]

If Nathan has a set up that works for him then I like to hear about it as I might learn something. A little less of a combative first post might have been more forum-friendly but then I like to think I have a thick skin and I take it as a bit of humour/banter, which nathan seems to be able to take as well as give so here is my response.

For me the warm water from only about 25 degrees of an immersion does help with kinky hoses and lessens the amount of time to go back and unkink them. And I always use it in November through March for this reason.  I have about 30 metres of pole hose on my reel as well which is easier to carry and flick about than microbore. (No need for an electric reel - for me - with this set up too.)

I find a tap on a belt - with a home made hook for my pole hose to lessen muck up the pole works for me as I don't use a flow controller and can also use it to alter the flow from time to time.

[Richard Groves]

Can you guys, stop with the needless quoting. Take it that people are reading the last several posts at least and will be able to figure out what your response is for.

Ks cleaning,,,,,,, (see its easy, you posted and so u know what you wrote unless you have a memory of a ten Yr old,,,,,,,,, see how I didn't need to "quote" it.
The fact I've been on hot water for over a year,  non stop can make you disillusional as ones have accused before. Therefore, a fair trial was needed.
😂😂 Or are you insinuating that I do actually prefer cold water over hot and that's why it went on for Sooo long?   Hhhhmmmm I did not consider that, perhaps I did....... Now you've got me confused

Sorry, I just couldn't resist 
Have you ever considered becoming a mod ? ...... Oh wait

[Slacky]

Can you guys, stop with the needless quoting.

Who's quoting?

[nathankaye]

KS did on this thread, but maybe I should start athread on the subject because its a constant irritation on every thread, where the person who responses, virtually straight after the post they are responding to, will "quote" the post first and then the person after will do so.  There can be pages, consisting of endless quotes being duplicated needlessly (especially when using your phone for the internet)

[nathankaye]

Big Kahuna,  ecoming a Mod,   that would be interesting! But nah, I have enough on telling my actual kids to behave, never mind full on grown men child's on here to play fair

[JandS]

How hot you heating the water to get hot at the pole?
Can't be too hot that would affect the tank.
Pumping it through 100m of hose, especially in Winter on cold ground, it can't be that hot.

[nathankaye]

I've not checked the temp for a long time now.
In a morning, I would drop the end of my hose into the tank and turn on the flow. So whilst I'm driving to the first job, I have pre warmed the hose and drained the hose of trapped cold water left in the hose over night.
Then I find with a high flow rate I'm not loosing much heat transfer to the hose or cooling due to the cold pavements ect. However if i dropthe flow below 70 then I do notice a considerable drop in temp. But that's my findings.

[dazmond]

How hot you heating the water to get hot at the pole?
Can't be too hot that would affect the tank.
Pumping it through 100m of hose, especially in Winter on cold ground, it can't be that hot.

in summer on a warm day mine can get to 60-65c at brush head even with all 100m out!this is great for cleaning,the real benefit to hot water cleaning is in the spring/summer months,the sticky pollen,birdmuck,little yellow spots,snail trails etc just melt off with very little scrubbing......its also great for first cleans,add ons etc.....

in the winter(on the same full heat setting)on a cold day(freezing ground)itll be 25-30c at brush head with all 100m out on the ground,which is fine or id be cracking panes left,right and centre if it was 60c+ at brush head.....

in the winter its great for supple hoses and keeping hands warm,its nicer to work with,also no chance of water freezing in the hoses and the water viscosity is similar to working in the warmer months so flow to the jets is still strong......

[Simon Trapani]

Nathan you just quoted!

[Don Kee]

KS did on this thread, but maybe I should start athread on the subject because its a constant irritation on every thread, where the person who responses, virtually straight after the post they are responding to, will "quote" the post first and then the person after will do so.  There can be pages, consisting of endless quotes being duplicated needlessly (especially when using your phone for the internet)

People could find endless sentences, containing waffle with no gramma, no spaces between words or paragraphs, irritating to read.

For someone that spouts about peoples “negativity”, this is a very hypocritical post...

[nathankaye]

Don Key, that's the whole idea
Take a look through the threads/subjects and it will become clear. That's why many haven't commented I'm suspecting

[zesty]

Nathan, is wc more of an obssession /  hobby for you ?  By your own admission cold water cleans and cleans well. That's good enough for me. Warm supple hoses and less scrubbing on some bird poop is not going to earn me any more money vs the expenditure for its luxury.  There are some great advancements, the univalve being one of them. But don't you still like to  attach yourself to hose pipe and faff about with a metal tap  that leaks and makes you look like you've wet yourself ?

It’s defo a hobby for him. When people make videos for things that don’t need improving, you know it’s a hobby. Like H man.

They just love window cleaning faff!

Hot water is good though. I will give him that.

[Slacky]

Water viscosity - don't give me that bollocks.

We're pumping water water through hose-pipes, not trying to ensure fat gits veins are kept free of cholesterol.

[P @ F]

This is top stuff , we used to only argue about hot in the winter , now it’s become an all year Olympic event 

[P @ F]

Gas grabbed a Bronze
Immersions got Silver
Diesel romped home with Gold 

[dazmond]

Water viscosity - don't give me that bollocks.

We're pumping water water through hose-pipes, not trying to ensure fat gits veins are kept free of cholesterol.

when i was cold water only i used to have to turn my pump up to near max to get a decent flow at the jets during the cold winter months,with hot water i dont have to,its gushing out on 45 on my controller.....

[AuRavelling79]

Gas grabbed a Bronze
Immersions got Silver
Diesel romped home with Gold 

He did not! I'm not that way inclined. 

[AuRavelling79]

Water viscosity - don't give me that bollocks.

We're pumping water water through hose-pipes, not trying to ensure fat gits veins are kept free of cholesterol.

when i was cold water only i used to have to turn my pump up to near max to get a decent flow at the jets during the cold winter months,with hot water i dont have to,its gushing out on 45 on my controller.....

Is that only down to viscosity or because the pipes are warm they flex wider?

[dazmond]

Water viscosity - don't give me that bollocks.

We're pumping water water through hose-pipes, not trying to ensure fat gits veins are kept free of cholesterol.

when i was cold water only i used to have to turn my pump up to near max to get a decent flow at the jets during the cold winter months,with hot water i dont have to,its gushing out on 45 on my controller.....

Is that only down to viscosity or because the pipes are warm they flex wider?

both........ask anyone with an RO system........its slower during the colder months due to stiffer hose and cold water(its more viscous when your water temperature drops)......

[robbo333]

Water viscosity - don't give me that bollocks.

We're pumping water water through hose-pipes, not trying to ensure fat gits veins are kept free of cholesterol.

There is nothing wrong with my veins!

[Dry Clean]

Water viscosity - don't give me that bollocks.

We're pumping water water through hose-pipes, not trying to ensure fat gits veins are kept free of cholesterol.

when i was cold water only i used to have to turn my pump up to near max to get a decent flow at the jets during the cold winter months,with hot water i dont have to,its gushing out on 45 on my controller.....

Is that only down to viscosity or because the pipes are warm they flex wider?

both........ask anyone with an RO system........its slower during the colder months due to stiffer hose and cold water(its more viscous when your water temperature drops)......

Who cares turn your pump up a little, its just a pity you cant buy common sense, for some on here it really would be money well spent.

[KS Cleaning]

Can you guys, stop with the needless quoting. Take it that people are reading the last several posts at least and will be able to figure out what your response is for.

Ks cleaning,,,,,,, (see its easy, you posted and so u know what you wrote unless you have a memory of a ten Yr old,,,,,,,,, see how I didn't need to "quote" it.
The fact I've been on hot water for over a year,  non stop can make you disillusional as ones have accused before. Therefore, a fair trial was needed.
😂😂 Or are you insinuating that I do actually prefer cold water over hot and that's why it went on for Sooo long?   Hhhhmmmm I did not consider that, perhaps I did....... Now you've got me confused

Sorry for quoting Nathan, but you forgot to close brackets! Just sayin.

[Slacky]

Water viscosity - don't give me that bollocks.

We're pumping water water through hose-pipes, not trying to ensure fat gits veins are kept free of cholesterol.

when i was cold water only i used to have to turn my pump up to near max to get a decent flow at the jets during the cold winter months,with hot water i dont have to,its gushing out on 45 on my controller.....

When I’m able to see the difference in water viscosity I’ll believe you Daz, like you can with honey. Until that point I cant say I’ve ever seen water behave as if its gloopy or thickened, especially because of the temperature.

Youre doing your regular thing chap, trying to justify your life’s decisions to others so you can convince yourself.

[Ooooooog]

If hot water expands, can you clean more houses with it?

[Slacky]

It doesnt, it contracts.

[P @ F]

So it will clean less houses in winter than in summer.
That’s lucky as the days are shorter

[P @ F]

I forgot to 

[P @ F]

I can get a smaller 350 tank now then as I will be carrying less 

[AuRavelling79]

IME, hot water is great if you are doing first cleans or removing a lot of stuck on bird's muck and spider/bee poo. It also obviously gives what for me is the greatest benefit - some frost protection and supple hoses.

But the spend of £100 or less fitting an immersion gives me enough of those benefits not to spend £1000's on gas or diesel hot.

 

[Dry Clean]

With the exception of poor old concrete melting Nathan you have to love how the guys who spend pennies on hot tend to be more realistic on the effects, as for the supple hoses, my hoses where never that rigid (especially in the summer months) until I used them with hot, so basically you're having to use hot all year round to counteract the damage it has done to your hose.

[Shrek]

With the exception of poor old concrete melting Nathan you have to love how the guys who spend pennies on hot tend to be more realistic on the effects, as for the supple hoses, my hoses where never that rigid (especially in the summer months) until I used them with hot, so basically you're having to use hot all year round to counteract the damage it has done to your hose.

Good point - why do hot users need supple hoses all year round 
Is it really that difficult to wind in a hose filled with cold water on an electric hose reel or to pull the hose out , think I’m missing something here ....

[AuRavelling79]

It's more to do with not having them kink up too easily. (Supple hoses)

But you only need about 20 degrees in tank the winter to get that effect. And the frost protection is nice which means on marginal days (starting at zero or minus1) you can work from an earlier start.

[Stoots]

Law of diminishing returns

An immersion does 90% of what a diesel heater does at a fraction of the cost.

[Splash & dash]

And people wonder why this forum is dying !,,,

[dazmond]

Water viscosity - don't give me that bollocks.

We're pumping water water through hose-pipes, not trying to ensure fat gits veins are kept free of cholesterol.

when i was cold water only i used to have to turn my pump up to near max to get a decent flow at the jets during the cold winter months,with hot water i dont have to,its gushing out on 45 on my controller.....

When I’m able to see the difference in water viscosity I’ll believe you Daz, like you can with honey. Until that point I cant say I’ve ever seen water behave as if its gloopy or thickened, especially because of the temperature.

Youre doing your regular thing chap, trying to justify your life’s decisions to others so you can convince yourself.

your getting really grumpy lately matt.....is your missus not "putting out" anymore?

[dazmond]

With the exception of poor old concrete melting Nathan you have to love how the guys who spend pennies on hot tend to be more realistic on the effects, as for the supple hoses, my hoses where never that rigid (especially in the summer months) until I used them with hot, so basically you're having to use hot all year round to counteract the damage it has done to your hose.

im with you on this one sean.....hot water does destroy microbore for some reason......i used cold water for a day the other month(until i replaced a fuse on my system)and the hose was like wire(and it was a warm day!)......

[dazmond]

IME, hot water is great if you are doing first cleans or removing a lot of stuck on bird's muck and spider/bee poo. It also obviously gives what for me is the greatest benefit - some frost protection and supple hoses.

But the spend of £100 or less fitting an immersion gives me enough of those benefits not to spend £1000's on gas or diesel hot.

you cant compare an immersion with a hot water diesel heater for cleaning power in the warmer months.your water doesnt get hot enough to make a real difference.....ok for frost prevention in the colder months though....

like ive said the real benefit of a hot water system is in the warmer months,this is when most of the bird muck,snail trails,sticky pollen,yellow spots are more prevalent on the windows esp if you have a lot of rural/leafy suburb properties near farmers fields(i have a lot!)some of my 8 weekly jobs are like first cleans every time i go to clean them,if your water is 50-60c at brush head it makes these jobs easier to clean as well as the obvious first cleans/add on jobs.....and your more likely to do a quality job first time......ive picked up more stand alone rural accounts over the last few years on longer frequencies and these can be pretty bad esp if we ve had spells of windy weather( in the 8-12 weeks between cleans)......

[High-Tower]

you cant compare an immersion with a hot water diesel heater for cleaning power in the warmer months.your water doesnt get hot enough to make a real difference.....ok for frost prevention in the colder months though....

Why not? 50 degrees is the same however you have heated it up.
for less than half the price you could get a custom insulated tank fitted with an immersion and wiring to run a 3kw. pennies to run in comparison, and far more reliable.

[dazmond]

you cant compare an immersion with a hot water diesel heater for cleaning power in the warmer months.your water doesnt get hot enough to make a real difference.....ok for frost prevention in the colder months though....

Why not? 50 degrees is the same however you have heated it up.
for less than half the price you could get a custom insulated tank fitted with an immersion and wiring to run a 3kw. pennies to run in comparison, and far more reliable.

i agree....but do you know anyone apart from nathan that can heat their water up to 50c with an immersion?you d have to leave it plugged in for 2 days to get that temperature at brush end! .......

[Smudger]

Six hours Daz 

Darran

[nathankaye]

If your not a tight fisted Yorkshire man, then anyone with an immersion can get good temperature in their tank. Especially ones who plan ahead 😁😏

Then get yourself on a good tarrif with your electricity supplier.

I don't know why this is so hard for people

[Ooooooog]

It doesnt, it contracts.

Nah, expands innit. Hence expansion tank?
I’m prepared to be wrong though.............

[H MAN]

Lovin the appreciation guys


Erm which vid was the 35 houses on Sean?
Haha I ain't got time to watch em n find out, but your the video n forum police around here. I'm sure you can bring it to my attention.

Darren, really! I expected more from you...... What a disappointment 

Big Kahuna,  the tap doesn't leak mate, that's why it's on the hip and not dragging on the floor or looped on the pole.
Haha the univalve,,,,,, please! Yep it's great for on/off. I actually use one on the spare pole, but you still have to carry the pole hose or sling it as your walking. That's more faff than just walking and dropping your arm for a couple os seconds to turn on or off. Mine are long levers, so it's a doddle.  Easier than tugging on a pole hose put it that way.

KS cleaning, thank you for joining the debate. If it's a trial to see, how long would you give it?  1hr,  a morning,  a day, a week or longer?  Several weeks was a fair trial I thought and aren't you guys all about being fair?

Thank you, this was also my point when put this video up
And then got bagged out.
EASIEST FASTEST WATER SWITCH FOR WFPs
https://youtu.be/qoZU_KsGEpE
WATER BALL VALVE WFP SWITCH ATTACHMENT FOR BELT
https://youtu.be/eJi4y3Dgxn8
Also used it to inject chemicals to water fed brush for dirty windows.
CLOSE UP HOW CHEMICAL IS INJECTED TO WATER FED BRUSH
https://youtu.be/vFzPpZp8Hdo

[G Griffin]

Law of diminishing returns

An immersion does 90% of what a diesel heater does at a fraction of the cost.

It's not the law of diminishing returns.

[G Griffin]

And people wonder why this forum is dying !,,,

It's not. It's just pining for the fjords 🐦.

[P @ F]

How much does it cost to heat 350L to about 40c for someone on a run of the mill tariff ?

[High-Tower]

How much does it cost to heat 350L to about 40c for someone on a run of the mill tariff ?

To raise the temperature of 350l by 40c would take a 3kw immersion about 6 hrs.
15p/kwh is the average cost apparently. So 3kw x 15p/kWh x 6hrs = £2.70.

[P @ F]

Thanks for that High tower , so I would be worse off with an immersion as it goes !
My diesel only costs £2.50 a day to run and I get an average of 50c all day long !

[nathankaye]

Or switch to a day/night tarrif and its 7.5p from midnight till 7am

[Den68]

Thanks for that High tower , so I would be worse off with an immersion as it goes !
My diesel only costs £2.50 a day to run and I get an average of 50c all day long !

Are you going to put your diesel heater into production 😄 Hows it been working since your last upgrade?  Any other teething problems.

[P @ F]

Thanks for that High tower , so I would be worse off with an immersion as it goes !
My diesel only costs £2.50 a day to run and I get an average of 50c all day long !

Are you going to put your diesel heater into production 😄 Hows it been working since your last upgrade?  Any other teething problems.

I am seriously looking at it to be honest , I have a different design that I am currently investigating.

The only issue was melting a glow plug the other day, but that was down to testing the limits of the thing , 70*c on demand comes at a price of a glow plug 50/60*c is tops to run without damage , that’s more than ample though I would say !

[Smudger]

pull yer dam finger out - its June already 

Darran

[Smudger]

is there a reason why you can't use a webasto thermo top ?? - the type that run central heating on boats

Darran

[Den68]

Thanks for that High tower , so I would be worse off with an immersion as it goes !
My diesel only costs £2.50 a day to run and I get an average of 50c all day long !

Are you going to put your diesel heater into production 😄 Hows it been working since your last upgrade?  Any other teething problems.

I am seriously looking at it to be honest , I have a different design that I am currently investigating.

The only issue was melting a glow plug the other day, but that was down to testing the limits of the thing , 70*c on demand comes at a price of a glow plug 50/60*c is tops to run without damage , that’s more than ample though I would say !

I bought a spare plug and spanner for mine as I was told the Chinese pins are crap but mine is ok still as it hasn't done lots of hours and only been used in the cold, they say the ebspchacher glo pins are much better quality might be worth a consideration.

[Den68]

is there a reason why you can't use a webasto thermo top ?? - the type that run central heating on boats

Darran

The Chinese now make a copy or similar product, I asked this question on heater forum and the answer went over my head as I'm a thicko lol

[P @ F]

Yes it’s true , the chinese do have this copy out now , I have not been able to get exact specs on it as yet , I assume that it will be pretty much identical to the top C  , and I don’t know if the bigger 9 Kw is coming too .
But it will probably need the same power draw and diesel as the Webasto , this was my main reason for my build , to cut costs and extra gear needed to get hot .
Plus , don’t forget that the Chinese hydronic heater will probably need the secondary water circuit too , not what I’m looking to persue