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waterless car cleaning
« on: March 19, 2004, 10:34:25 pm »
;) why are we still cleaning cars etc the same way as 40 years ago, water is no longer the way, we are in the 21st century and as usual the americans have left us miles behind.

this is not advertising as the company whose web site i say look at will not accept any work, but view www.blueplanetvaleting.com to see the future.

i am not a valeter, just a woman who demos but these guys are the business and what they dont know about valeting you could get on a stamp.

Lyn

replacement

Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2004, 11:22:56 pm »
I sometimes use my Water Fed Pole to wash my car ( got a wicked 2ft Pole now ), no cleaning the water off after just leave to dry. Comes up sooo good had a few people stop and ask how much i charge. Might look into it with pure water cos it dont half look good after.

Justin

james44

Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2004, 05:10:41 pm »
no- water-no wet    Most of the good american detailers slate waterless valeting  because it`s a coating not a protective if you do your research you will find that out,it`s not a big thing over there to the detailers in the know, they just rubbish it

Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2004, 08:55:07 pm »
Sorry James
But your wrong there, no-wet is not like the other products dri guard etc, it contains caranuba wax and kaolin clay amonst other things and as been approved by all the major paint manufactures worldwide. it is not a glaze but a high class polish and my research is based on my visits to the states. you might also be interested to know that in the uk there are jaguar dealers and merc as well as lexus dealers to name just a few who have endorsed it and are using it.
Quote
no- water-no wet    Most of the good american detailers slate waterless valeting  because it`s a coating not a protective if you do your research you will find that out,it`s not a big thing over there to the detailers in the know, they just rubbish it


james44

Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2004, 01:28:11 am »
same stuff different name sorry!

Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2004, 07:54:02 pm »
so what you are saying is that all the experienced valeters in these prestige showrooms are wrong in their choice and that the five valeters i know with over 30 years service between them are also wrong in choosing it. i think we should agree to disagree, before we do that i assume you have put the no-wet through its paces.

>:(

james44

Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2004, 08:30:10 pm »
yes i have had a sample as i say i found it same as dri wash even the bottles look the same,each having 17 different ingerdients each to our own i suppose.

jb_valet

Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2004, 10:20:27 pm »
???HI James

have just come on board and caught yours and no wets running battle,  well thats what it looks like to me.

i dont think you have tried the no wet product, and are confusing it with dri-wash or similar, no wet from when i have used it is nothing like the others.

the dri guard lists over 64 ingredients not 17 and the bottles are nothing like each other nor the smell.

everyone to their own i agree, i have many years experience in the game and you cant stop the future, yes there are a lot of bad waterless products as there is normal polish, but no wet is top class, and americans only slate most of them because they want to stick to the cheap crap and water.

DP

  • Posts: 576
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2004, 05:22:17 am »
Sorry for butting in here and not being experienced at all in this field, but reading the above, I have to ask the question, "what exactly is wrong with cheap crap and water"? It seems to have worked and proved itself for many years and I suspect much longer then any expensive modern crap.

My point is if there is a modern product as you say that offers a real economical or viable benefit then that’s evolution, great.

However lets keep it in perspective, as there has to be a reason why people still want to use or revert back to water and cheap crap. After all it still keeps many millions of people gainfully employed across all fields, can they still all be wrong?

Just another point of view, that’s all and please remember that anti ageing cream has a vast number of ingredients as well, but it has never managed to stop my wife looking older every single day.   :(

Ps. does your stuff work on people by any chance?  ;)
Everyone seems normal untill you get to know them!

Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2004, 08:32:02 pm »
hi DP

leaving out the argument what is better, the main point of waterless products being produced was because some states in the U.S.A banned car washing to preserve water stocks.

if every one stopped to think the average amount of water being wasted is something like 80/90 litres using a pressure washer and even worse change that to gallons with a hose pipe then you get the idea.

Now put those figures in to the mix with thousands upon thousands of car dealers washing cars daily you will soon realise what we are wasting. Now thats not the main reason why council car parks are now canceling contracts with the car washers, it,s because that cheap rubbish like wash n wax and the like are filtering down into rivers and waterways causing toxins to damage wildlife and worse it is contaminating our own water source which is costing more and more to clean .
here is some food for thought for everyone, less than one per cent of the total water on this planet is fit for human consumption and we are wasting it on car cleaning, thats why i became a waterless supplier.
Thank you jb valet  for your input on no_wet and if you contact me i can now supply you instead of you having to get delivery from Scotland.

Love to you all even you James
nwnw


DP

  • Posts: 576
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2004, 10:01:43 pm »
A very noble and worthy cry in the dark, and I take my hat off to you for your morality on this subject especially if you can make money from it.

However there is non so more convincing then the evangelist particularly when they can earn from it, so with this incredible commitment to saving the planet, I take it that socialising for you must be difficult in light of no baths, or clean cloths, carpets, windows etc etc.

I think you will find that all production of any product puts a strain on the planet and many of the professed eco friendly chemicals actually more strain then most by vertue of their natural product requirements and levels of concentration to be able to work.

So spread the word by all means, but you get nothing for nothing so lets not be too keen on the subject, as I often find the formula of:

Planetary views +
Available Product +
Source of income        = Commercial Bull !

Glad to see you have forgiven James I’m sure he will sleep better now. Looks like I’m doomed though, what will I do with those wide awake nights FOX where are you!!  ;)


Everyone seems normal untill you get to know them!

Fox

  • Posts: 824
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2004, 10:59:35 pm »
Hi DP

I'm still about you just wore me out!!!!! Kept me up all night last time - was good though   ;D ;)

As for the waterless thing whether my opinion means anything or not I don't care - going to give it anyway!!

My Dad worked at the sewage works for over 30 yrs (basically brought up there lol!) and I don't think any of you on here have a clue what goes on at a water treatment plant.  The last thing to worry about are the 'cheap chemicals' that may end up in the water system, yes they don't help but I think you will find now days they have to be environmently safe.

I must say that I do agree with DP and James using the fact that things are 'environmentally safe' you are selling an idea not your product, does it really help? (in short scaremainering if you ask me). Does it really make the world a safer place? Ummm - no but it makes you money!!!!!  

Yes we all need to look after the environment but surely this can be done on an every day basis without putting other methods through the mill and not thoroughly investigating them.

For me - car wash - hose pipe and 'cheap cleaner' anyday.

Fox

Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2004, 12:37:21 pm »
To water or not to water surely depends on preference.
Our Autobella waterless products are cleaning 1000´s of cars per day as I am sure are  other valeting methods.
The Waterless system opens up areas of business which is not convenient for water based cleaning. I.e in sites with poor drainage or where there are not chemical traps etc.
Some people prefer waterless to water and vice versa.
I think the individual is quite capable of assessing which product works for them and they also quite capable of determining which product suits there needs.
There are a number of products available which satisfies a number of applications and with any business whether its window cleaning or car cleaning the individual will determine for themselves which is best. Advice is always usefull when it is qualified.
All I know from this forum is that the majority of the regular participants are nothing but tyre kickers, a waste of time and effort. I have no time for you.
You beg for samples, and then when you receive them you don’t have the courtesy to comment, good or bad.
I am pleased there is an alternative to this site! It may well turn out as this one has but at the moment it’s a refreshing change.
I do wish you all the best but I think the word anorak was invented for most of you.
Signing off permanently.

Tony_Browning

  • Posts: 129
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2004, 05:05:52 pm »
hahahahah! ;D ;D ;D
Newark-on-Trent, Nottinghamshire.
"A Local Company with a Passion for Exceeding Expectations"

james44

Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2004, 05:06:51 pm »
Don`t   Rush Back

Fox

  • Posts: 824
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2004, 06:24:19 pm »
Talk about throwing your toys out of your pram!  :P

DP

  • Posts: 576
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2004, 01:04:51 am »
Sorry Mr Waterless but I think they only want professionals over there, so using comments like that might get you booted off, but then again maybe they wont !!!!!!!!!!
Everyone seems normal untill you get to know them!

Musicman

  • Posts: 249
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2004, 10:40:12 am »
Well I'm going to defend Waterless and NWNW and if you don't like it - tough!

Gary from Waterless was one of the earlier members of this forum and his advice has always been technically sound, constructive and helpful - what more do you want from the guy?!

Free samples - apparently!

I have seen several posts from people asking for them, and assuming that they were sent, there has never been any word of thanks or comment upon their performance.

To me it is professional courtesy to at least acknowledge the sample and to pass comment on how well/badly it performed for us all to see.

OK, at times his posts were a little annoying as the mention of his products was getting a bit repetitive BUT people had a problem that he had the solution to. Isn't that what you were asking for?

Now to NWNW.

With respect DP a dig on someone's cleanliness is just a bit too personal for my liking, whether tongue in cheek or not.

The comments about the manufacture of eco-friendly products putting a greater strain on the planets resources is a huge generalisation and I would be interested to see the sources of your information to back up your comments.

Even assuming that you do have that information, can I ask if you have researched the products that NWNW uses?

As far as an evangelical approach goes, I think it's great that somebody can feel so strongly about their products or services. If I had the choice of buying from someone who was enthusiastic about their product, who really believed in it, or from someone who was a lot more laid back and uncommitted I would certainly go for the former.

I took am a hard nosed cynic, but I do try to see the best in people and the insinuation that NWNW is promoting these products through the Commercial BS route is, I feel, a little wide of the mark.

One thing I have learned from life is that there are two types of people - those that say they are going to do something, and those that actually do it.

We can all sit back and wait for other people to do their bit for the planet, or we can get off our backsides and do it ourselves.

Gary, for one I'm sorry to see you go, and Lyn keep flying the flag, I hope you are successful - I'm sure you will be.

Musicman
Success is where hard work meets opportunity!

Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #18 on: March 27, 2004, 09:08:46 pm »
thank you music man, i already have several good customers and have three main dealers who want me to come and demonstrate the product for them.

for all those valeters and future valeters out there a word of advice, don,t pay over the odds for your supplies.

i don,t sell anything except my product but know the prices of items such as carpet cleaner, wash n wax etc can differ by as much as 200%, i do know of a supplier who is very good on prices and his products are very good. He lives in Hampshire area and covers areas bordering it, if any one wants his number.

regards
Lyn

Len Gribble

  • Posts: 5106
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2004, 09:35:48 pm »
Musicman

You get my vote

Lyn keep at it

Len
Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed is more important than any other. (Sidcup Kent)

Les

  • Posts: 369
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2004, 10:16:34 pm »
Hi all,
I don't wish to be involved in any 'Mud Slinging'  :o. I always believed that this site was launched with the idea of helping each other out where we can, it's a tough old world out there and we don't need to be arguing with colleagues in the same line of work  :-X
That said, I did ask about samples of the No Water products, simply because I was willing to give them a try. I was told that they weren't available as 'Freebies' because everyone asked for them but no-one bothered to respond or order afterwards.....'Hullo'  ??? that said to me 2 things, are the products not any good hence no-one ordering them and secondly, don't wait for people to respond...contact them and get their opinions ! If they are positive, ask for an order, if they are negative, deal with the issues and move on.
I couldn't afford to purchase a sample of every product offered to me on the promise that it's the best thing since sliced bread.
Incidentally 3 companies from this site have provided samples to me, all did what they said on the tin, and all 3 have received orders and reccomendations from me.
So stick with it those of you with products to sell, if they're good and you go about it the right way...you'll reap the rewards in the end  ;) :D ;D
All the best
Les

DP

  • Posts: 576
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2004, 09:10:34 pm »
Musicman, your way way off, which is evident by your post, and sorry I have no intension of running an errand for you ref the evidence, that’s your job if you choose to argue the issue, I’m quite happy with my own statement thanks, but it makes great reading and you should find it quite interesting. Watch this space!

re-NWNW:
First of all whether we profess to sell or not, if you come onto a forum like this saying all good things about a product as a new thread, then that’s exactly what your doing (which is perfectly ok) and most people will realise that. Lyn says "this is not advertising" well it sure seems that way to me. However Lyn then goes on to say "I’m just a woman that demos" (which or course eliminates her from all areas of sales and advertising, or am I wrong on this).

The one thing I hate is sacrificial selling (this is the act of slagging off each others service or product in favour of your own) If the new service or product is any good in the first place it wouldn’t need these cheap tactics. The only time those comparisons are deemed ethical is in price.

Now the most dangerous tactic is Auto Suggestion used in sales pitches and one the Americans love. (this is the act of suggesting a problem and then offering the cure) although not a problem in itself, until you add the guilt factor, leaving somebody feeling guilty about either who they are or any part of their normal life, all for the sake of profit.

The facts on shortages maybe real, but using them this way its both immoral and unethical . With regards to the so called personal insult, I think you need to read back and see if  you can find the clue to the point being made, if you cant I can always re- do the post using smaller words if it helps, however  I will apologise for thinking that you were just using it as a mis- quote to bolster your own image (after all that would just be shallow), I can now see where the problem might be.

"No water"  products maybe very good and have their uses in their own right,  if you already use them then you will know the benefits, if you need the comfort factor of thinking that its  saving the world then that’s great. If you need to sell them, well we all have to make a living but why stoop to slagging other products off or using the oh so commercially worn out global issue by trying to make profit from it and then tell everyone how concerned you are, as I said commercial bull.

Always surprises me how people view reality, however  for the egotists and self denials I know of another place its great everybody thinks the same because they are all professionals apparently (I must look that word up again).
Everyone seems normal untill you get to know them!

replacement

Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2004, 09:29:21 pm »
That was nice reading there DP just wish a few other compaines take that info onboard.

Justin

gibbouk

  • Posts: 171
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2004, 10:03:45 am »
i am one of the people who complains about these sort of posts. they chip in on posts with their product and no other help. check out their old posts and see what they have said in the past. its like cut and paste heaven. i see the professional reatailers on here they answer questions and their only advert is the  line at the bottom of the post and they dont hide behind a screen name.

DP

  • Posts: 576
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2004, 11:15:29 am »
Hi gibbouk
Apologies but you lost me just a little there, who are you referring to in particular?

i.e. who are you agreeing or disagreeing with or which post or person?

Many Thanks
DP  ;)
Everyone seems normal untill you get to know them!

gibbouk

  • Posts: 171
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2004, 11:41:01 am »
i dont give a damn about waterless car cleaning and who is right and wrong. the problem i have is people who feel that an answer to someones question is a sales pitch. now the thing seems to be to do it under cover ie. "this is not me but i know a great product or i have found this great supplier" i have not seen this since i got mugged by amway salesmen

DP

  • Posts: 576
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2004, 06:06:01 am »
Ah right that clarifies it a bit more.
It’s curious you mention Amway as I too was a victim some 25 years ago and noticed a large number of similarities with the Waterless (as in Mr Waterless) structure, however these similarities would no doubt be easily justified by those who sell the products as trained.

Everyone seems normal untill you get to know them!

gibbouk

  • Posts: 171
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #27 on: April 07, 2004, 10:09:32 pm »
i went to a recruitment meeting it was so funny. the only person who makes money was the top man everyone else had their wedding suits on trying to look sucessful. mention saturation sales point and they get all worried

Ian Gourlay

  • Posts: 5748
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2004, 08:31:07 pm »
I did not make my million out of Amway either.

That was about 25 years ago also.


However I did learn about Direct Marketing.


Positive Mental Attitude etc.

.


Splashgroup

  • Posts: 25
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2004, 09:26:36 pm »
Oh dear , trouble at the mill .

Sorry to see that Gary rose to the occasion, but he does have a point about the samples.....people can be so rude. Why not in future say they can have as many samples as they like but they must pay for carriage via courier by Credit card NOW, you will then solve the problem of givin "Free Bees" out to "Tyre Kickers" only genuine people will take you up on it.  We know it works because thats just what we do.

And as for cheap products I feel as long as the Valeter is experienced enough He/She will be able to achieve a similar result.

The Great One

  • Posts: 11727
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2004, 10:14:43 pm »
Hi Guys

I was thinking about the waterless concept for some time and finally contacted gary at waterless.

the literiture was on the mat the next day and i then spent £53 on the samples (didn't even ask for freebies)
Used the products on my car and i have to say I am amazed! never seen it so shiny.

gary took the time out to visit me and do the demo for me. I am now after a big waterless contract (fingers crossed) the site was very pleased with the demo and product and gary has done a lot of work behind the scenes.

some people are 'tyre kickers' and will always be that way.

Regards

Martin 8)

DP

  • Posts: 576
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2004, 03:49:26 am »
Martin.

Does the tyre kicking line come in the Waterless manual or are you that easily influenced.

Try a few seminars when you can, and it wont take long before you really don’t know who you are.

It seems you have mastered the first lesson of sacrificial selling already. Who knows you too could be saving the world soon.

Just thought of a new Waterless catch phrase:
"Tyre kickers aren’t us - but we do clean them"  ;)   

Seriously, I wish you well in your new venture, but try and keep one foot on the ground especially so soon.  

As you say " only £53 on samples and no freebie’s wanted"  I’m both surprised and impressed.  

I really hope it works out for you, all the best

DP

Everyone seems normal untill you get to know them!

DP

  • Posts: 576
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2004, 07:03:38 am »
Just a quick note on the freebie thing:
Maybe I have this wrong but isn’t giving out freebies "Marketing Ones Product", and no different to any other form of marketing, all cost money and all require effort.

Of course people will be non responsive that’s people for you, that’s what they do. You don’t hear of people winging over sales calls that don’t come back or turned down quotes.

You don’t give freebies out because you like the person your giving it to, you do it to sell the product. If you feel it doesn’t work then don’t do it, if you feel that it does work then you should be budgeting for it, that’s what people in business do, budget for their marketing costs.

If other companies do and you can’t, that’s competition; we all face that. I find it extremely difficult to understand why people choose to blame everybody else for their own failed marketing tactics or bad judgements.

I really cant see this as anything more then what we all face every day (one way or another) but I am happy to listen if somebody thinks I have it all wrong.

DP

No I have never asked for any free samples.
Everyone seems normal untill you get to know them!

Ian Gourlay

  • Posts: 5748
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2004, 06:15:41 pm »
I think it depends on how big your company is for giving out freesamples.

I expressed interest in Waterless was offered samples I thought £25.

However not sure its the way I want to go.#

Waterless looks a new company to me not sure how market tested the concept is.

Gary seems ok to me and probably will make a go of it.

Could be an amazing ground floor oportunity.

Martin keep reporting back

The Great One

  • Posts: 11727
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2004, 07:01:11 pm »
Hi Guys

I will report back to let you all know how things are going.

I went after quite a prestigious contract which i am of course hoping to get, gary has been kind enough to help me with it both with figures and practical help.

Waterless use the autobella range who it seems are quite big on the continent, china, austrailia. the product are in my opinion amazing, my car has never looked better.

i feel more sites will be open to the waterless concept as it uses zero water, which as we all know has the councils doing their nut, and can damage the car park/tarmac floor over time.

If it takes off it will of course need staffing and all it's asscoiated problems, so it is eyes wide open for me as i hopefully enter this new phase of business.

as to the whole 'freebie' thing. there are certain people who all they want are freebies and no business can withstand constanly giving out free stuff every time. Although this can be used as a marketing tactic it becomes a very expensive one when there are much cheaper and productive ways to market your product/service.

I of course will try to make this new ventre a successful as i can, it wil;l be a 7 day week operation, wages being the major cost, product cost comes in at about £2 per car, marketing, start up costs.

keep you all posted.

Regards

Martin 8)

Ian Gourlay

  • Posts: 5748
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #35 on: May 06, 2004, 12:56:03 am »
Martin,

Without knowing anything about the valet market, I thought £12 for a clean seamed high, but is this wax aswell

The Great One

  • Posts: 11727
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2004, 01:44:26 am »
Hi

Update:

heard back from site manager and have an 'agreement in principle (verbal) now waiting for it in writing, hoping to start early july.

The price seems reasonable for an all in one product (clean and protect) people i have asked so far think it is a fair price

Regards

Martin 8)

Ian Gourlay

  • Posts: 5748
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2004, 02:50:19 am »
Martin,

Forgot to say good luck. Wasnt sure about protect bit. Thats why I thought £12 a bit high.

Is protection as good as a wax./

OR is it the equilivent to  all in one wash and wax
Hope all goes well for you

The Great One

  • Posts: 11727
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2004, 01:14:51 am »
Thanks for that Ian.

The results so far have been fantastic, my car looks great and done one other and they were very pleased.

Any bird droppings now fall onto the polish not my paint and i've noticed that the rain collects differently on my car and 9 days later is still looking good.

staff here is going to be my biggest problem as i am already finding out

Ce la guerre!
(such is war)

Regards

Martin 8)

Ian Gourlay

  • Posts: 5748
Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2004, 11:03:27 pm »
Martin,

Been worrying about your staffing problem.

Can I throw in two ideas.

You say you hope to open in July.

If you get started early July you should be able to pick up Uni Students they would jump at the £8 an hour in the cost projections.

Another source is housewifes  as long as you offer flexiable working.

Dont forget 60 to 75 years  olds.

You might not find them at the job centre, but if you leaflet well maintained houses  outlining your job you should pick up commited people.

replacement

Re: waterless car cleaning
« Reply #40 on: May 09, 2004, 12:14:50 am »
I spoke to Gary @ waterlesscleaning and i got to say what a nice chap, he has helped and advised me on this yacht i am going to clean. I intend to give him feedback as i could have alot more of these jobs lined up and it also opened my eyes up to other cleaning jobs.

Justin