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harleyman

  • Posts: 429
Are shiners getting lazy
« on: April 09, 2019, 02:21:21 pm »
Seems to me that  some shiners are getting lazey in that if a gate is locked  and it is easy to get  over they don't bother don't get me wrong I don't if it's a big  gate  I've just picked up a few  New jobs  where the shiner as refused to do the job these Wernt big gates 4ft at best lm 57 and I still find my self getting over small gates.must be the younger shiners only  used to the pole.not like us old timers lol

Splash & dash

  • Posts: 4364
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2019, 02:35:36 pm »
We no longer climb over any gates , if it’s locked it’s not done , especially if employing  people you need to have a risk assessment in place and for us that won’t allow staff to climb over a gate .

The Jester of Wibbly

  • Posts: 2089
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2019, 02:44:37 pm »
Nope.  Agree with splash and dash.

It's customers responsibilty to leave gate unlocked if you have arranged the date with them.  If left locked, only front gets cleaned. Simple.

If you climb over a gate and you damage it you are going to get the blame.

I once climbed over a gate many years ago only to be pounced on by the police after a neighbour reported me trying to break in.

Also I remember seeing someone on this forum who said a customer wanted to charge him with trespass after he climbed over his gate even though he was a client.   
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nathankaye

  • Posts: 5366
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2019, 03:09:26 pm »
More the fool for climbing over and especially not a young chicken anymore!
Gates are not designed to be climbed and certainly most are not supported adequately for this to happen.
Anyone climbing over fences are normally criminals etc as these are the only times that gates are really climbed over.

Now when i traf i would split the ladders and go up and over as no weight is on the gate etc. However I no longer use ladders and i text the customers the night prior. Now if they cant be bothered to unlockna gate, the ownership is on them as I have done my part to let them know. So I will clean what I can and charge 75% of full charge.  However some will still charge full price and i dont blame them. We can do no more than let the customer know we are coming. Its the owners who are lazy
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Jonny Swirljet

  • Posts: 205
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2019, 03:12:19 pm »
One may consider that if a householder deliberately leaves a side gate unlocked that their home insurance is jeopardised if burgled. Personally i never encourage custards to compromise their home security by leaving a gate open for me.   

dazmond

  • Posts: 23569
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2019, 03:25:00 pm »
We no longer climb over any gates , if it’s locked it’s not done , especially if employing  people you need to have a risk assessment in place and for us that won’t allow staff to climb over a gate .

you couldnt get over a gate anyway.....your too large.....
price higher/work harder!

dazmond

  • Posts: 23569
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2019, 03:27:33 pm »
if the customer forgets i normally  still hop the gate....its easy if you have a 2 section ladder or a little step....

i hate doing half a job.....
price higher/work harder!

Dry Clean

  • Posts: 8507
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2019, 03:33:04 pm »
Iv got over many gates over the years but have never climbed on one yet, that said I don't do it now because I no longer need the work, I did try the front only option but it ended up in more arguments so I no longer take on customers who lock their gates.

dazmond

  • Posts: 23569
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2019, 03:36:34 pm »
One may consider that if a householder deliberately leaves a side gate unlocked that their home insurance is jeopardised if burgled. Personally i never encourage custards to compromise their home security by leaving a gate open for me.

oh please!.... ::)roll ::)roll ::)roll
price higher/work harder!

dazmond

  • Posts: 23569
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2019, 03:42:14 pm »
im finding more and more customers over the last few years getting locks for their gates.....its a sign of the times....a few of my customers have had guys trying to smash their doors in at 3am in the morning to get their keys to nick their golf GTIs,mercedes,etc....scumbags.... >:(

some gates are nigh on impossible to get over so its fronts only if their too difficult to get over with a ladder....
price higher/work harder!

KS Cleaning

  • Posts: 3896
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2019, 03:55:11 pm »
One may consider that if a householder deliberately leaves a side gate unlocked that their home insurance is jeopardised if burgled. Personally i never encourage custards to compromise their home security by leaving a gate open for me.
In the 30 years that I’ve had house insurance I have never been asked by any insurance company if I have locks on a side gate!

nathankaye

  • Posts: 5366
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2019, 03:56:09 pm »
Like many, im sure, i have keys for gates and locks. Access codes, whilst others wil leave a key somewhere so I can lock back up and post a key through letter box.
So alternative arrangements can be made rather than scrambling over the gate to possibly breaking the gate or causing a personal injury
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Splash & dash

  • Posts: 4364
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2019, 04:02:25 pm »
One may consider that if a householder deliberately leaves a side gate unlocked that their home insurance is jeopardised if burgled. Personally i never encourage custards to compromise their home security by leaving a gate open for me.


Lol are you serious ??? Compromise there house security 😂😂😂😬 it’s a garden gate the house doors and windows are the security not a gate , won’t make the slightest difference to insurance

G Griffin

  • Posts: 40745
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2019, 04:07:07 pm »
Now if they cant be bothered to unlockna gate, the ownership is on them as I have done my part to let them know.
Do you get ownership if they leave the gate unlocked, then? 
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

nathankaye

  • Posts: 5366
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2019, 04:14:40 pm »
Now if they cant be bothered to unlockna gate, the ownership is on them as I have done my part to let them know.
Do you get ownership if they leave the gate unlocked, then?

Theres no responsibility in terms of security to the household due to me asking for a gate to be unlocked. Obviously the owner of the property can choose to unlock the gate for me or not. No one is forcing them to do so.

However, when it has been agreed upon that I will communicate with said owner to inform them of my due visit to the property for the intent of cleaning the rear windows. Then I have fulfilled my part of the agreement. Part of that understanding is, after upon receiving such communication and no access has been organised then a percentahe fee will be applied. However the owner can, if desired to do so, let me know if hes away and to leave the rear clean etc etc etc.   
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jonboywalton75

  • Posts: 2179
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2019, 04:54:10 pm »
if the customer forgets i normally  still hop the gate....its easy if you have a 2 section ladder or a little step....

i hate doing half a job.....

No way am i getting the ladder off to go over a gate.
I dont carry a ladder anyway😁
If it's locked i charge at least 2 thirds maybe even full price
If the custie forgets it's on their head.
Climbing is for mugs 😁

cleaniac

Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2019, 05:00:04 pm »
As i give all my customers the date of the clean, the full amount is payable regardless if access was left available or not.


Smudger

  • Posts: 13201
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2019, 05:06:08 pm »
No climbing over gate

 one, its a problem with H&S and staff
two, we did climb over a gate a few years ago - no damage but the customer went ape because we had climbed over, so now custards are told from day one if the gate is locked with a padlock or lock it will need to be unlocked or we are given a key or the combination.

Darran
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

www.oddbodscleaning.co.uk

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23528
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2019, 05:15:32 pm »
Well I'm older than the OP and my guidelines (to myself) for gates is ...

1. Never text beforehand
2. I have a couple of keys and the combinations to a dozen gates that are kept locked.
3. I have a handful of customers where I use a small "gate ladder" (6ft long cut down top section with ladder mitts) to reach over and slide the bolt(s) with a cuphook thingy on a pole.)
4. I have a handful of customers where the gate/wall is strong enough for me to use my gate ladder to get over easily - and with their permission.
5. I have one customer who thinks I have a skeleton key to get in his gate whereas a quick flick to the side means I can lift it past his pathetic gate stop and open it.  ::)roll ;D
6. Locked gates, or linked properties with access only when the custy is in are fronts only and backs on request - usually by them asking me first and leaving the gate open.

The one exception to all this is a group of 5 detached houses adding up to about £100 with some gates are locked and where there is a disabled lady whose house and garden is like Fort Knox,  where I text one neighbour beforehand and he tells the rest that "the window cleaner" is coming tomorrow.

He arranges access and collects money from those that aren't going to be and pays me in so I don't mind texting first, though often he contacts me just before I am due to get the exact day.

It's a game of three halves!

Shrek

  • Posts: 3931
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2019, 05:27:44 pm »
I had a night out a while back with a few lads and decided to call it a night around 10pm . Got home and someone was smashing my girlfriends back doors in, the guy bolted when he saw me. Just shows it can happen at any time of the day

KS Cleaning

  • Posts: 3896
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2019, 05:30:09 pm »
Now if they cant be bothered to unlockna gate, the ownership is on them as I have done my part to let them know.
Do you get ownership if they leave the gate unlocked, then?

Theres no responsibility in terms of security to the household due to me asking for a gate to be unlocked. Obviously the owner of the property can choose to unlock the gate for me or not. No one is forcing them to do so.

However, when it has been agreed upon that I will communicate with said owner to inform them of my due visit to the property for the intent of cleaning the rear windows. Then I have fulfilled my part of the agreement. Part of that understanding is, after upon receiving such communication and no access has been organised then a percentahe fee will be applied. However the owner can, if desired to do so, let me know if hes away and to leave the rear clean etc etc etc.
Nathan why don’t you just use simple words for your sentences. Once again it’s all too wordy and doesn’t really make much sense. You are using about 30 words where 10 would suffice ( and would probably make more sense)
I think the word you were looking for was onus and not ownership.

KS Cleaning

  • Posts: 3896
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2019, 05:31:08 pm »
I had a night out a while back with a few lads and decided to call it a night around 10pm . Got home and someone was smashing my girlfriends back doors in, the guy bolted when he saw me. Just shows it can happen at any time of the day
Did he grab all his clothes first?😂

dazmond

  • Posts: 23569
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2019, 05:35:48 pm »
if the customer forgets i normally  still hop the gate....its easy if you have a 2 section ladder or a little step....

i hate doing half a job.....

No way am i getting the ladder off to go over a gate.
I dont carry a ladder anyway😁
If it's locked i charge at least 2 thirds maybe even full price
If the custie forgets it's on their head.
Climbing is for mugs 😁

your just old and knackered jonboy......too long in the tooth! ;) ;D
price higher/work harder!

Splash & dash

  • Posts: 4364
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2019, 05:54:50 pm »
One may consider that if a householder deliberately leaves a side gate unlocked that their home insurance is jeopardised if burgled. Personally i never encourage custards to compromise their home security by leaving a gate open for me.


I was doing the windows this afternoon for one of our customers whose an insurance broker , I showed him this statement and he howled with laughter , said it’s utter rubbish no insurance company askes  for side gates to be locked and very few insurance companies ask or know if you have a side gate , most garden sheds should be locked though with a padlock , not that that would stop anyone breaking in it’s just a deterrent

Stoots

  • Posts: 6022
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2019, 06:17:26 pm »
I dont find it as easy to jump over stuff as i would have done 10 years ago....im 37 so not exactly old but still its noticeable harder these days to exert myself lol.

I wouldnt say i never climb gates, ill get over the odd one if its not too difficult or if i can be arsed but if its a 6 footer and it means getting ladders off the roof i wont bother.

General rule is fronts only but depends on level of arsedness on given day.

I got sacked off last year for merely reaching over a gate to unlcock it so a bit cautious these days, some funny buggers about their gates.

robbo333

  • Posts: 2406
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2019, 06:34:49 pm »
No climbing for me.
In all fairness it doesn't happen often and when it does I text the custy and they are very apologetic.
I try to reschedule it, if I can.
If it happens more than once, i'll do fronts only or dump. To be honest, I don't mind doing the fronts only for half price!
"Thank you for calling: if you have a 1st floor flat, mid terraced house, lots of dogs, no parking, no side access, or no sense of humour, please press hold!
For all other enquiries, please press1"

robbo333

  • Posts: 2406
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2019, 06:40:41 pm »
Now if they cant be bothered to unlockna gate, the ownership is on them as I have done my part to let them know.
Do you get ownership if they leave the gate unlocked, then?

Theres no responsibility in terms of security to the household due to me asking for a gate to be unlocked. Obviously the owner of the property can choose to unlock the gate for me or not. No one is forcing them to do so.

However, when it has been agreed upon that I will communicate with said owner to inform them of my due visit to the property for the intent of cleaning the rear windows. Then I have fulfilled my part of the agreement. Part of that understanding is, after upon receiving such communication and no access has been organised then a percentahe fee will be applied. However the owner can, if desired to do so, let me know if hes away and to leave the rear clean etc etc etc.
Nathan why don’t you just use simple words for your sentences. Once again it’s all too wordy and doesn’t really make much sense. You are using about 30 words where 10 would suffice ( and would probably make more sense)
I think the word you were looking for was onus and not ownership.

  Bit harsh!
"Thank you for calling: if you have a 1st floor flat, mid terraced house, lots of dogs, no parking, no side access, or no sense of humour, please press hold!
For all other enquiries, please press1"

dazmond

  • Posts: 23569
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2019, 06:41:09 pm »
I dont find it as easy to jump over stuff as i would have done 10 years ago....im 37 so not exactly old but still its noticeable harder these days to exert myself lol.

I wouldnt say i never climb gates, ill get over the odd one if its not too difficult or if i can be arsed but if its a 6 footer and it means getting ladders off the roof i wont bother.

General rule is fronts only but depends on level of arsedness on given day.

I got sacked off last year for merely reaching over a gate to unlcock it so a bit cautious these days, some funny buggers about their gates.

its nothing to do with age mate.....your just unfit....jesus your only 37! :o ;D
price higher/work harder!

jonboywalton75

  • Posts: 2179
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2019, 06:47:13 pm »
if the customer forgets i normally  still hop the gate....its easy if you have a 2 section ladder or a little step....

i hate doing half a job.....

No way am i getting the ladder off to go over a gate.
I dont carry a ladder anyway😁
If it's locked i charge at least 2 thirds maybe even full price
If the custie forgets it's on their head.
Climbing is for mugs 😁

your just old and knackered jonboy......too long in the tooth! ;) ;D

Spot on, as usual Daz😁

dazmond

  • Posts: 23569
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2019, 06:47:23 pm »
im very comfortable on ladders after spending 17 years on them so to occasionally get them off to gain access to the rear of a property is no problem.....i must use them 5 or 6 times a month for locked gates.....

its not like im climbing them 80 times a day like the old trad days! ::)roll ;D
price higher/work harder!

Stoots

  • Posts: 6022
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #30 on: April 09, 2019, 07:28:25 pm »
I dont find it as easy to jump over stuff as i would have done 10 years ago....im 37 so not exactly old but still its noticeable harder these days to exert myself lol.

I wouldnt say i never climb gates, ill get over the odd one if its not too difficult or if i can be arsed but if its a 6 footer and it means getting ladders off the roof i wont bother.

General rule is fronts only but depends on level of arsedness on given day.

I got sacked off last year for merely reaching over a gate to unlcock it so a bit cautious these days, some funny buggers about their gates.

its nothing to do with age mate.....your just unfit....jesus your only 37! :o ;D


Nope probably fitter than you mate...at least in a cardio sense, i ride bikes a lot but dont go to gym...

I probably should be lifting weights though to help with some aches and pains.

My problems come from working years in warehouses lifting things i shouldnt have been, injured my back on a few occasions and now its pretty weak and liable to flare up if i lift heavy stuff or bend over for too long or go jumping over big gates etc.


harleyman

  • Posts: 429
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #31 on: April 09, 2019, 07:57:58 pm »
Guess I was right all along there are some lazey shiners  health and  safety again that's what's wrong these days to much of an easy life get a grip 

Ooooooog

  • Posts: 1083
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #32 on: April 09, 2019, 08:13:16 pm »
Of about 300 residential window cleaning jobs we do, less than ten have locked gates.  It’s not really a big issue.
I climbed over a garage once! Then dumped.

harleyman

  • Posts: 429
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #33 on: April 09, 2019, 08:55:25 pm »
Bunch of wingers  want every thing on a plate I think some of you really do need a  Career change grow a pair of Jack it in  .it beggars believe what is the world  comming to . Rant over girlys

G Griffin

  • Posts: 40745
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #34 on: April 09, 2019, 10:30:14 pm »
Now if they cant be bothered to unlockna gate, the ownership is on them as I have done my part to let them know.
Do you get ownership if they leave the gate unlocked, then?

Theres no responsibility in terms of security to the household due to me asking for a gate to be unlocked. Obviously the owner of the property can choose to unlock the gate for me or not. No one is forcing them to do so.

However, when it has been agreed upon that I will communicate with said owner to inform them of my due visit to the property for the intent of cleaning the rear windows. Then I have fulfilled my part of the agreement. Part of that understanding is, after upon receiving such communication and no access has been organised then a percentahe fee will be applied. However the owner can, if desired to do so, let me know if hes away and to leave the rear clean etc etc etc.
Nathan why don’t you just use simple words for your sentences. Once again it’s all too wordy and doesn’t really make much sense. You are using about 30 words where 10 would suffice ( and would probably make more sense)
I think the word you were looking for was onus and not ownership.
Correct; it's waffle.
And it has the opposite effect of what he is trying to do.
Keep it simple, Nate.
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

robert mitchell

  • Posts: 1985
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2019, 12:10:35 am »
Bunch of wingers  want every thing on a plate I think some of you really do need a  Career change grow a pair of Jack it in  .it beggars believe what is the world  comming to . Rant over girlys

Been on the booze?
www.ishinewindowcleaning.co.uk

The man who never made a mistake never made anything.

harleyman

  • Posts: 429
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2019, 06:23:02 am »
Na dont drink just an  observation wonder what would happen if  w f p was banned I suspect they would be a mass exodus  of shiners.its  some thing ive noticed  ive done it all from using scrims only then  squigeys to w fp to me its part of the job.

Shrek

  • Posts: 3931
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2019, 06:48:24 am »
So , to sum up-  your whinging about other window cleaners not climbing small gates and losing customers, in turn you gain work . Not really something to rant about... is it?

AuRavelling79

  • Posts: 23528
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2019, 08:13:31 am »
Na dont drink just an  observation wonder what would happen if  w f p was banned I suspect they would be a mass exodus  of shiners.its  some thing ive noticed ive done it all from using scrims only then  squigeys to w fp to me its part of the job.

So have I. But I've learned to drop unproductive and less safe methods. Sadly for you there isn't going to be a ban of wfp. Do you send your grandkids up chimneys and ride a Harley-Davidson 883?  :D
It's a game of three halves!

dazmond

  • Posts: 23569
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2019, 08:34:41 am »
Na dont drink just an  observation wonder what would happen if  w f p was banned I suspect they would be a mass exodus  of shiners.its  some thing ive noticed ive done it all from using scrims only then  squigeys to w fp to me its part of the job.

So have I. But I've learned to drop unproductive and less safe methods. Sadly for you there isn't going to be a ban of wfp. Do you send your grandkids up chimneys and ride a Harley-Davidson 883?  :D

i can see both sides......

i used to be a stuntman (without the glamour) when 100% trad....i never charged danger money either! ;D......

BUT.......climbing over the odd locked gate with a ladder is ok as long as its only a few times a month when your WFP.....
price higher/work harder!

dazmond

  • Posts: 23569
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2019, 08:38:42 am »
one thing i dont do anymore is "up and over" flat roof jobs......now they are front only jobs or through the house/garage if they want the back windows  cleaned.... ;) ;D
price higher/work harder!

Stoots

  • Posts: 6022
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2019, 01:35:03 pm »
Na dont drink just an  observation wonder what would happen if  w f p was banned I suspect they would be a mass exodus  of shiners.its  some thing ive noticed  ive done it all from using scrims only then  squigeys to w fp to me its part of the job.

Wrong way to look at it, easy to be all macho I'll jump over gates, hump ladders around and make the job harder. But who's laughing the guy doing all that or the ones making life as easy as possible by picking and choosing work and using the most efficient methods etc.

My aim is to make the job easier as time goes on and earn more money as time goes on. That involves buying the best gear and picking and choosing the most efficient work to clean along with prices rises etc.

It's the ones who still jump gates, climb ladders and charge £5 a house that is holding everyone back.

harleyman

  • Posts: 429
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2019, 03:42:29 pm »
Naw it's fxdf 1690 proper bike stoped sending  the kids up chmneys 10 year ago

The Jester of Wibbly

  • Posts: 2089
Re: Are shiners getting lazy
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2019, 03:47:21 pm »
Why the concern?  Just do your job the way you want and let other do it their way.  Its the same job.  Simples
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